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I don't get the concept of cultural appropriation

Oct 25, 2017
63
A white person wearing cornrows: Not necessarily cultural appropriation.
Etc
The issue with braids/hairstyles kind of bugs me. Corn rows and/or boxer braids have recently been a hot topic with accusations of cultural appropriation because Kim K recently wore the style and they grew in popularity. White girls who wear the braids shouldn’t have to be nervous about whether they’re appropriating culture in braiding their hair. Renaissance Faires have hair braiding booths with elaborate braids because braids have been around for all cultures for such a long time. The same type of braid is also known as a Dutch braid. Just because women are wearing these to music festivals now or because a celebrity made them popular, suddenly it’s cultural appropriation.

I knew a Jewish woman who would always wear gorgeous scarfs over her hair on certain days because she couldn’t show her hair due to her religion. I had no idea this is why she did it at the time; I loved the style, and wore a scarf too one day. She complimented me on it and I said, “I saw you rock it so decided to try it too.” She said “oh I do it because I have to due to my religion haha.”

Is that cultural appropriation? Probably not. If a celebrity did it though and it caught on in popularity, I feel like it suddenly would be though, and that’s what bugs. It comes from a place of admiration of the culture.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,812
The issue with braids/hairstyles kind of bugs me. Corn rows and/or boxer braids have recently been a hot topic with accusations of cultural appropriation because Kim K recently wore the style and they grew in popularity.
You're missing the flip side of that, which is that braids are simultaneously celebrated on white women while derided as unkempt on black people, even when we utilize the styles as a matter of necessity or that simply being the way our hair naturally grows.

It is not a celebrity wearing them that's the issue. It's a celebrity getting to wear them, and white people only having to deal with the fear of offense when deciding to wear them (which, let's be real, isn't that great of a fear because the concerns of minorities are easily brushed aside anyway as per this thread) while we have ours cut off, sometimes in public, to not jeopardize basic extracurricular and employment opportunities.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,333
The issue with braids/hairstyles kind of bugs me...
Not to be a dick, but if you were going to springboard off of my post, I'd have appreciated you quoting the full thing so it didn't languish at the bottom of the previous page.

Someone from one culture profiting off of the works or culture of people of a different culture in a way people from that culture have been denied, claiming the works or culture of another culture as their own original creation without crediting its source, or using another culture as a prop.

For example:

White folks opening up a soul food restaurant inspired by black cuisine: Not necessarily cultural appropriation (rides on the execution)

White folks gentrifying a black neighborhood, raising the rent until the previous residents and businesses can no longer stay, then opening up a soul food restaurant in that neighborhood: Definitely cultural appropriation

A white person wearing cornrows: Not necessarily cultural appropriation.

A white person wearing a fake afro to dress up as a <Generic Negro>: Definitely cultural appropriation.

Etc
As for your post, you don't seem to be directly responding to what I said so much as using it to launch into your own thing, so I don't know if you're actually looking for a response.

You're missing the flip side of that, which is that braids are simultaneously celebrated on white women while derided as unkempt on black people, even when we utilize the styles as a matter of necessity or that simply being the way our hair naturally grows.

It is not a celebrity wearing them that's the issue. It's a celebrity getting to wear them, and white people only having to deal with the fear of offense when deciding to wear them (which, let's be real, isn't that great of a fear because the concerns of minorities are easily brushed aside anyway as per this thread) while we have ours cut off, sometimes in public, to not jeopardize basic extracurricular and employment opportunities.
But someone else else covered it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
63
Not to be a dick, but if you were going to springboard off of my post, I'd have appreciated you quoting the full thing so it didn't languish at the bottom of the previous page.


As for your post, you don't seem to be directly responding to what I said so much as using it to launch into your own thing, so I don't know if you're actually looking for a response.


But someone else else covered it.
I only quoted the one part because I don’t see how corn rows might be appropriation. You say it isn’t necessarily appropriation, which suggests it might be, which I disagree. Everything else in your post is well taken and I don’t really have any comment on it further, so no need to quote.

The second part of my post just is more of a general comment not directed at you. So it is a springboard off of the first concept since it ties to the topic of hairstyles. New topic, new paragraph.

But, if you want to elaborate on how corn rows generally could be construed as cultural appropriation, I’m all ears.

Edit: the post you quoted explains how it could be construed as appropriation, I didn’t see that post originally or I would have quoted that one rather than yours, so thanks for quoting that.

My point though is that braids were a necessity for all cultures and corn rows go by many names. A lot of cultures used braids of necessity over the entire course of history.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
2,036
Florida
Ponder this:

Fortnite dances have cultural roots and they've basically had those roots eroded in the scope of the wider societal lens. The BlocBoy JB Shoot dance is't his dance anymore. It's "The Hype". The connection to its culture and its creators is lost.

It's also about not making a mockery or trivializing things that are revered or sacred. When white women wear bindis to music fests they aren't respecting the culture, they're insulting it. They're turning something that has meaning to a group of people into a fashion statement, an accessory.
The funny thing is .. read the YouTube comments..

 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,812
I also want to know where sampling music comes in on cultural appropriation?
The original artist gets paid for having their music sampled, do they not? You can also easily look up where samples come from as well. If it is appropriation, it is of negligible consequence.
 

A Robot

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
433
The original artist gets paid for having their music sampled, do they not? You can also easily look up where samples come from as well. If it is appropriation, it is of negligible consequence.
In most cases I would say that the original artist will not get paid or recognised in any way. If the beat ends up in a song that is released through a big label things will be cleared but that's a really small percentage.
 
Oct 25, 2017
63
You're missing the flip side of that, which is that braids are simultaneously celebrated on white women while derided as unkempt on black people, even when we utilize the styles as a matter of necessity or that simply being the way our hair naturally grows.

It is not a celebrity wearing them that's the issue. It's a celebrity getting to wear them, and white people only having to deal with the fear of offense when deciding to wear them (which, let's be real, isn't that great of a fear because the concerns of minorities are easily brushed aside anyway as per this thread) while we have ours cut off, sometimes in public, to not jeopardize basic extracurricular and employment opportunities.
The recent articles and feedback I've seen is that white people wearing braids is being deemed cultural appropriation, specifically, of African culture. My thing though is that braids can't be attributed only to African culture. Braids were created out of necessity and used by multiple cultures for hundreds of years.

I guess the reasoning behind the argument that white people wearing braids is cultural appropriation stems from modern history though. I could see that as the necessity for braids died down for white cultures in the last 200 years or so, the necessity remained for Africans/people of African decent, particularly slaves. I think that might be where the disconnect is. Whites and all races used braids if you look at the history of the world, so my thinking is, how can it be appropriation when every race did it out of necessity at some time or another? But, if you focus in on America in recent history, the predominance of braids began to die down among whites, but stayed predominant among people of African decent out of necessity.

The other side of this is braids are also used across the board for a lot of reasons that transcend culture/race issues. For example, in some places in food service, if hair is braided, you don't need a hair net. In fighting/MMA, braids are a necessity in the ring to avoid hair getting in the way of the fight. It's such a universal style with so many uses and conveniences that it seems weird to attribute it to only one culture and if a white person braids their hair, it can be seen as a negative thing.

I can see how the use of a bindi is clearly appropriation, because there's no utilitarian purpose. Maybe utilitarianism needs to be a factor?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,332
Tuscaloosa, AL
The recent articles and feedback I've seen is that white people wearing braids is being deemed cultural appropriation, specifically, of African culture. My thing though is that braids can't be attributed only to African culture. Braids were created out of necessity and used by multiple cultures for hundreds of years.

I guess the reasoning behind the argument that white people wearing braids is cultural appropriation stems from modern history though. I could see that as the necessity for braids died down for white cultures in the last 200 years or so, the necessity remained for Africans/people of African decent, particularly slaves. I think that might be where the disconnect is. Whites and all races used braids if you look at the history of the world, so my thinking is, how can it be appropriation when every race did it out of necessity at some time or another? But, if you focus in on America in recent history, the predominance of braids began to die down among whites, but stayed predominant among people of African decent out of necessity.

The other side of this is braids are also used across the board for a lot of reasons that transcend culture/race issues. For example, in some places in food service, if hair is braided, you don't need a hair net. In fighting/MMA, braids are a necessity in the ring to avoid hair getting in the way of the fight. It's such a universal style with so many uses and conveniences that it seems weird to attribute it to only one culture and if a white person braids their hair, it can be seen as a negative thing.

I can see how the use of a bindi is clearly appropriation, because there's no utilitarian purpose. Maybe utilitarianism needs to be a factor?
Except braids aren’t a common part of white culture the way they are African American culture similar to dread locks.

Also when white people wear braids or dreads it’s usually because it’s “trendy” and white people are exempt from the negative stigmas that come with braids and dreads. Both styles are often used by police to further profile black people and often used or gatekeep from employment. These style and even some that black women use like box braids etc are often seen as “ghetto” and “unprofessional” in our Eurocentric society. So yeah, when white people opt to use these styles it’s not only insensitive and cringy but cultural appropriation.

MMA fighters wearing them is a bit different but google a picture of any prominent white MMA fighter and you won’t find many of them using that style out of the ring.

Also consider how Kim Kardashian made “boxer braids” a big style not too long ago and was credited by many publications for popularizing them when that’s been a common style with black women for years.

A white person will get dragged on social media for wearing these styles at worse. A black person could lose their life for them.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,729
The recent articles and feedback I've seen is that white people wearing braids is being deemed cultural appropriation, specifically, of African culture. My thing though is that braids can't be attributed only to African culture. Braids were created out of necessity and used by multiple cultures for hundreds of years.

I guess the reasoning behind the argument that white people wearing braids is cultural appropriation stems from modern history though. I could see that as the necessity for braids died down for white cultures in the last 200 years or so, the necessity remained for Africans/people of African decent, particularly slaves. I think that might be where the disconnect is. Whites and all races used braids if you look at the history of the world, so my thinking is, how can it be appropriation when every race did it out of necessity at some time or another? But, if you focus in on America in recent history, the predominance of braids began to die down among whites, but stayed predominant among people of African decent out of necessity.

The other side of this is braids are also used across the board for a lot of reasons that transcend culture/race issues. For example, in some places in food service, if hair is braided, you don't need a hair net. In fighting/MMA, braids are a necessity in the ring to avoid hair getting in the way of the fight. It's such a universal style with so many uses and conveniences that it seems weird to attribute it to only one culture and if a white person braids their hair, it can be seen as a negative thing.

I can see how the use of a bindi is clearly appropriation, because there's no utilitarian purpose. Maybe utilitarianism needs to be a factor?
You're really going out of your way to justify it when it's quite simple:
When white people do it, they're the shit. When black people did it, it's because they're shit.

Substitute black for any race or culture and it's the same thing.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,812
Again, it's not like the pushback came out of a vacuum. It was white people who arbitrarily decided that braids, dreadlocks, and similar styles were symbols of unprofessionalism and unkemptness when black people wore them, hence the tangible consequences black people faced for wearing them. And it is also white people who are "rediscovering" these styles and allowing white women to get away with what black people have been told for centuries to cut off. The cultural exemption, the association of braids with blackness, was ironically in part drawn up by white people in much the manner as race as we understand it today has been, which is solely as a way to delineate different classes for the sake of power and wealth consolidation. Such then is the case that black people, as usual, are more than happy to take that designation and claim ownership of it, to make lemons out of lemonade, and to reveal that double-edged sword of whiteness as a concept. You don't get to have the pick of the litter when our hair, music, and clothing catches your fancy and makes a little glint in your eye, especially not in the digital age where awareness of these kinds of sociopolitical ideas can spread more easily and we have a much bigger voice than we did pre-Internet. So Becky's a little sad that she got a side-eye from a black person because she really wanted to look awesome at the Renaissance Festival? Too bad, so sad.
 
Apr 11, 2018
287
For me cultural appropriation is a big issue when it involves commercializing religious cultural elements of small groups without any kind of respect towards them. That is something that should not happen.

For other elements of culture that are less important at personal level for the originators I don't think that it is a big issue, culture is meant to be shared.
 
Dec 4, 2018
1,051
These style and even some that black women use like box braids etc are often seen as “ghetto” and “unprofessional” in our Eurocentric society. So yeah, when white people opt to use these styles it’s not only insensitive and cringy but cultural appropriation.
Can I have a quotation on that - that Europeans (not white people in America) find them offensive in Europe - and a proof that Europeans' styles of braids (and I don't mean the intricates styles of North Africa, but a simple one like the one featured on the Wikipedia page as french) are entirely cultural appropriation?

I mean, I've given it absolutely zero thought in my life and thought the "French style" had some legacies with the depiction of Vikings.

I find it barely believable that no one ever thought of doing of doing a braid outside of Africa, especially when the Roman Empire and Greeks were around to move trends.

I literally never thought it had anything to do with African when people do it here, because what comes to my mind is medieval fantasy - dreads just aren't a thing in Italy and have never been, for "white people". It was a thing - the gemanish kinda look - for the generations before American culture came here.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
758
Japan
Does yoga ever enter the debate? For an Indian spiritual/mental/physical/philosophical practice to be reduced to something for people to wear Lululemon, say namaste, and work on their glutes, I always found it strange that a dress or a kimono or dreads always takes the spotlight.
 
Oct 30, 2017
692
You haven't seen the white dude wearing dreads near me
Looks horrendous as he doesn't take care of it

I'd rather he appropriated it but did it right and hygienically rather than constantly worrying if something is going to jump out of his hair and into my cuppa
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,332
Tuscaloosa, AL
Can I have a quotation on that - that Europeans (not white people in America) find them offensive in Europe - and a proof that Europeans' styles of braids (and I don't mean the intricates styles of North Africa, but a simple one like the one featured on the Wikipedia page as french) are entirely cultural appropriation?

I mean, I've given it absolutely zero thought in my life and thought the "French style" had some legacies with the depiction of Vikings.

I find it barely believable that no one ever thought of doing of doing a braid outside of Africa, especially when the Roman Empire and Greeks were around to move trends.

I literally never thought it had anything to do with African when people do it here, because what comes to my mind is medieval fantasy - dreads just aren't a thing in Italy and have never been, for "white people". It was a thing - the gemanish kinda look - for the generations before American culture came here.
We aren’t talking about distant or loosely history we are talking about the contemporary.

Does yoga ever enter the debate? For an Indian spiritual/mental/physical/philosophical practice to be reduced to something for people to wear Lululemon, say namaste, and work on their glutes, I always found it strange that a dress or a kimono or dreads always takes the spotlight.
Yes yoga and namaste have been topics of discussion
 

ishan

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,849
I thought it was odd when people called it “cultural appropriation” when Gordon Ramsay had a show where he made his own take on different world foods.

Like he should stick to haggis and battered Mars bars or something.
Wait what . I had no idea about this. I knew he went to India. Thought it was super cool . Loved that he had his take on Indian cuisine.
 

ishan

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,849
Does yoga ever enter the debate? For an Indian spiritual/mental/physical/philosophical practice to be reduced to something for people to wear Lululemon, say namaste, and work on their glutes, I always found it strange that a dress or a kimono or dreads always takes the spotlight.
yeah but like to ppl doing yoga is good. Its half amusing half annoying when they start talking about chakras etc. (Cause well :P) . But it no biggie either way to me. The majority of Indians dont care eitehr way I would assume too. I certainly dont. Its a good think imo learning from other cultures and trying to inculcate it.
 
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ishan

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,849
I doubt there would be an issue if everyone was treated equal and had equal opportunities.
But that isn't the case.
I mean but on this I guess I differ when some ignorant smuck says western culture is the greatest we gave yada yada . I hear and im like you obviously havent learnt history (in my head and at times speak it out if the person is worth talking to aka discussing the issue) ... if you did chinese culture was yada yada at a point so was indian so was egyptian, so was greek etc ... only a moron isnt aware many cultures and by some ppl's definition races have dominated in humankind's long history. Its all rubbish imo. ( the im superior part)
 
Dec 4, 2018
1,051
We aren’t talking about distant or loosely history we are talking about the contemporary.
Did someone claim Kardashian made braids popular in recent times?

I don't know about that in America, but nobody knows who the Kardashians are in Italy other than those who give a shit about American gossip. Yet when I was a kid, braids like those I can see in Wikipedia - not dreads - were common for girls. Let me introduce you to Pippi Longstocking, a hugely popular and influential book and TV show (mostly known as a show in the 80s and 90s here).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pippi_Longstocking

Which is what you would be nicknamed if you were redhead and with braids in Italy.

But anyway, I understand what you mean about that, just that it isn't as much as an European or European centric thing but an American and American centric thing. Not many Italians in Italy would open a foreign style restaurant, you'd be laughed at if you're not doing actual fusion or well thought styles that don't pretend to be foreign - fusion is considered stupid anyway. We have a strong food culture just like Frenchmen and Germans. While I see that Americans pretend to be "Europeans", they follow just about nothing about our traditions and culinary styles, they changed and adapted to the bland American normality. At best some people in New Jersey and New York seem to still be doing stuff the old way and some people know famous saints. At best. When I hear italoamericans have a fetish for Columbus I cringe super hard, since there are many actual italian heroes like Garibaldi and the people who died defending our country from fascists and nazis.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
6,551
Wait what . I had no idea about this. I knew he went to India. Thought it was super cool . Loved that he had his take on Indian cuisine.
I can’t remember if it was here or Gaf, but there was a thread about it with people saying stuff like it’s ok to do that with Italian food but not with Asian. It was very odd.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,517
I mean but on this I guess I differ when some ignorant smuck says western culture is the greatest we gave yada yada . I hear and im like you obviously havent learnt history (in my head and at times speak it out if the person is worth talking to aka discussing the issue) ... if you did chinese culture was yada yada at a point so was indian so was egyptian, so was greek etc ... only a moron isnt aware many cultures and by some ppl's definition races have dominated in humankind's long history. Its all rubbish imo. ( the im superior part)
I'm having a bit of trouble reading what you said. Not sure if you're angry or agreeing. It sounds like you're telling me i never learned any history.
I'm not trying to shame your english (i'm not American or english either), i'm just trying to understand so we can continue in a dialogue.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,228
It´s an American invention. Since Americans think that the US is the center of the universe their opinion is the only thing that matters. For instance the whole Scarlet Johannsson ghost in the shell controversy in japan from Japanese perspective. The large majority of Japanese did not give a shit, while a very few "Asian Americans" got offended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhoBuU1Dtc. The term Asian American is funny because Asia is the most diverse continent on earth yet they are grouped as one which is ridiculous. Why would Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean etc.... be offended at SJ for taking a Japanese role, and not for instance just Japanese Americans? Since when Japanese culture and Chinese culture are the same, and why are they grouped together to be an Asian culture? Pro tip Asia has many cultures grouping an entire continents culture like that is ignorant.

The majority offended, at least on twitter, are usually rich white college kids.

Since the dawn of humanity people always shared culture and that what made humanity advance prosper and evolve.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,208
The more I read your arguments the more I feel like this is an issue unique to the United States, a uniquely multi-racial and multi-cultural society, and I feel like some of them forget the existence of the rest of the world.
This should not be your take away. This forum is mostly made up of posters from the US and often we don't get many social minority groups in other countries sharing their thoughts in threads like this. So it's very easy to come away from threads thinking "Oh, this is a US issue" when US social minority groups are the main ones giving opinions. For example, for years on the other forum we had posters from the Netherlands and other countries where they celebrate Sinterklaas defending the Zwarte Piet character, where the character is usually portrayed in Black face. These posters usually claimed that US posters were "pushing their opinions" onto them and that people who lived in the Netherlands weren't offended by the holiday. But as the story spread and more Black people in and around the Netherlands entered the discussion and began protesting, the defense force shrunk down to Ant-Man proportions.

Another problem is that sometimes the appropriation happens in countries where there minority social groups aren't as vocal and/or aren't as present. Example:


While these images were shared by social minority groups/people in Australia, the restaurant got in trouble only after images of the restaurant spread to social minority groups (Black people) in the US who have a "large enough" voice to bring awareness to the problem, even bringing more awareness to social minority groups/people concerned with the imagery in Australia that were able to protest/get the restaurant to respond.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,935
It´s an American invention. Since Americans think that the US is the center of the universe their opinion is the only thing that matters. For instance the whole Scarlet Johannsson ghost in the shell controversy in japan from Japanese perspective. The large majority of Japanese did not give a shit, while a very few "Asian Americans" got offended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhoBuU1Dtc. The term Asian American is funny because Asia is the most diverse continent on earth yet they are grouped as one which is ridiculous. Why would Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean etc.... be offended at SJ for taking a Japanese role, and not for instance just Japanese Americans? Since when Japanese culture and Chinese culture are the same, and why are they grouped together to be an Asian culture? Pro tip Asia has many cultures grouping an entire continents culture like that is ignorant.

The majority offended, at least on twitter, are usually rich white college kids.

Since the dawn of humanity people always shared culture and that what made humanity advance prosper and evolve.
It’s not about sharing culture, that’s harmless and happens all of the time. The problem is when one culture is heavily advantaged at the expense of the other culture. So for your ghost in the shell example, Asian Americans have been traditionally typecasted into certain roles and the thought was that they couldn’t carry a movie. So you have 21, which was based on a true story about Asian Americans, get replaced by white people. Or Mickey Rooney playing a stereotypical Chinese person in Breakfast at Tiffany’s. Or a film based on Asian culture have white people as the stars like in Avatar. In all of these, Asian Americans were denied the opportunity to have adequate representation especially in properties that pertain to the various Asian cultures and remain marginalized. It’s why Crazy Rich Asians was such a success here.
 
Oct 25, 2018
334
Did someone claim Kardashian made braids popular in recent times?

I don't know about that in America, but nobody knows who the Kardashians are in Italy other than those who give a shit about American gossip. Yet when I was a kid, braids like those I can see in Wikipedia - not dreads - were common for girls. Let me introduce you to Pippi Longstocking, a hugely popular and influential book and TV show (mostly known as a show in the 80s and 90s here).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pippi_Longstocking

Which is what you would be nicknamed if you were redhead and with braids in Italy.

But anyway, I understand what you mean about that, just that it isn't as much as an European or European centric thing but an American and American centric thing. Not many Italians in Italy would open a foreign style restaurant, you'd be laughed at if you're not doing actual fusion or well thought styles that don't pretend to be foreign - fusion is considered stupid anyway. We have a strong food culture just like Frenchmen and Germans. While I see that Americans pretend to be "Europeans", they follow just about nothing about our traditions and culinary styles, they changed and adapted to the bland American normality. At best some people in New Jersey and New York seem to still be doing stuff the old way and some people know famous saints. At best. When I hear italoamericans have a fetish for Columbus I cringe super hard, since there are many actual italian heroes like Garibaldi and the people who died defending our country from fascists and nazis.

I would even say it's an anglosaxon thing. The anglosaxon world (UK, USA..) tries to engulf and put everything together in one place and level it to their own problems. When it comes to braids.. they have been in southern europe for a long time, but everyone seems to ignore Southern Europe, I wonder why...
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,800
Edmonton
I also want to know where sampling music comes in on cultural appropriation?
Remember when Timbaland took beats from a Abdel Halim Hafez song and was latter sued for it? A good deal of producers sample music from the Middle East and South Asia and not only never pay the original artist, but they also never credit them either. They sample these beats because of the clearly ethnic tune to them. Yeah I’d say examples like that are cultural appropriation without a doubt.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,582
It´s an American invention. Since Americans think that the US is the center of the universe their opinion is the only thing that matters. For instance the whole Scarlet Johannsson ghost in the shell controversy in japan from Japanese perspective. The large majority of Japanese did not give a shit, while a very few "Asian Americans" got offended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhoBuU1Dtc. The term Asian American is funny because Asia is the most diverse continent on earth yet they are grouped as one which is ridiculous. Why would Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean etc.... be offended at SJ for taking a Japanese role, and not for instance just Japanese Americans? Since when Japanese culture and Chinese culture are the same, and why are they grouped together to be an Asian culture? Pro tip Asia has many cultures grouping an entire continents culture like that is ignorant.

The majority offended, at least on twitter, are usually rich white college kids.

Since the dawn of humanity people always shared culture and that what made humanity advance prosper and evolve.
Humanity also conquered each other through out history.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,036
Florida
Remember when Timbaland took beats from a Abdel Halim Hafez song and was latter sued for it? A good deal of producers sample music from the Middle East and South Asia and not only never pay the original artist, but they also never credit them either. The sample these beats because of the clearly ethnic tune to them. Yeah I’d say examples like that are cultural appropriation without a doubt.
I think it speaks to the fact that cultural mingling is inevitable and people will take the things they like from other cultures and iterate on it. I dont think it's a bad thing. There are black guys living in Japan trying to be part of the culture there. There are South Koreans in the b-boy hip hop scene. White kids in America are doing the shoot dance while hip hop artists are sampling Phil Collins and Sting. I think cultural appropriation will bring us all closer together in the end.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,036
Florida
I would even say it's an anglosaxon thing. The anglosaxon world (UK, USA..) tries to engulf and put everything together in one place and level it to their own problems. When it comes to braids.. they have been in southern europe for a long time, but everyone seems to ignore Southern Europe, I wonder why...
Though I will say you should ask the Aztecs and Taino populations about that. The world is complicated.
 
Oct 25, 2018
334
Though I will say you should ask the Aztecs and Taino populations about that. The world is complicated.
Of course it is. But it's complicated everywhere, not just in some places.

I still don't have a clear opinion about cultural appropiation, but I like reading everyone's opinions. Hopefully I can understand the subject better.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,800
Edmonton
I think it speaks to the fact that cultural mingling is inevitable and people will take the things they like from other cultures and iterate on it. I dont think it's a bad thing. There are black guys living in Japan trying to be part of the culture there. There are South Koreans in the b-boy hip hop scene. White kids in America are doing the shoot dance while hip hop artists are sampling Phil Collins and Sting. I think cultural appropriation will bring us all closer together in the end.
But here’s the thing. Phil Collins and Sting are so big and popular, that you’d be hard pressed to not know that their music is being sampled in a song. They also have the ability to demand royalties from big producers if they end up sampling their music. This isn’t about small artists and what not. Timbaland isn’t some local musician trying to make it and using and sampling beats from around the world he likes. He’s using tunes from other parts of the world to enrich himself with zero benefits going back to the original artist (who would greatly benefit from people outside of their regions knowing about their music).

How many people in western countries would listen to Arabic or South Asian music? But strip the Arabic or Hindi out of a song, sample its beat, throw a “produced by big shot so-and-so” on it, and suddenly it’s a banger. How many people even know where producers like that are sampling these tunes from? The examples you give can clearly be traced back to where the influence originated from, and people for the most part aren’t blind to the original contributing communities.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,438
Nottingham, UK
I think it speaks to the fact that cultural mingling is inevitable and people will take the things they like from other cultures and iterate on it. I dont think it's a bad thing. There are black guys living in Japan trying to be part of the culture there. There are South Koreans in the b-boy hip hop scene. White kids in America are doing the shoot dance while hip hop artists are sampling Phil Collins and Sting. I think cultural appropriation will bring us all closer together in the end.
But artists should be clearing, paying for, paying tribute to, and celebrating those artists that are being sampled
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,472
Everytime there’s a good example of these cultural appropriation stories, there’s always an element of “stealing”, “not giving credit to”, “disrespecting the original culture” involved.

Cultures borrowing from one another is never the actual problem. It’s the deceipt or disrespect involved that is the problem.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,036
Florida
But artists should be clearing, paying for, paying tribute to, and celebrating those artists that are being sampled
For sure. Do it legally.

But here’s the thing. Phil Collins and Sting are so big and popular, that you’d be hard pressed to not know that their music is being sampled in a song. They also have the ability to demand royalties from big producers if they end up sampling their music. This isn’t about small artists and what not. Timbaland isn’t some local musician trying to make it and using and sampling beats from around the world he likes. He’s using tunes from other parts of the world to enrich himself with zero benefits going back to the original artist (who would greatly benefit from people outside of their regions knowing about their music).

How many people in western countries would listen to Arabic or South Asian music? But strip the Arabic or Hindi out of a song, sample its beat, throw a “produced by big shot so-and-so” on it, and suddenly it’s a banger. How many people even know where producers like that are sampling these tunes from? The examples you give can clearly be traced back to where the influence originated from, and people for the most part aren’t blind to the original contributing communities.
You'd be surprised. Kid recently got sued for using a Sting song.


NASA did it too

 
Jan 12, 2018
318
When I was a kid in the 80s my friends at school were often putting my blonde hair in corn rows, because they liked playing with my hair. I'd get dragged on social media these days for letting my peers, whose hair I loved, have fun with my hair.
 

Spainkiller

Banned
Member
Jun 6, 2018
3
User Banned (Permanent): Hostility towards other members and dismissing concerns surrounding racism and intolerance; account still in junior phase
As a brown middle eastern dude I take it as American/European people trying to make up cuz they subconsciously/consciously feel guilty about bombing my home. Honestly 99% of the shit people bitch about on the behalf of middle eastern people are meaningless/stupid IMO. I could care less if you wore a turban or a Hijab for Halloween. I could care less if a white dude opens a middle eastern restaurant. Instead of whining about that stuff I wish people would focus on the actual issues that we have to deal with like the clusterfuck in syria and make noise about that, people losing their homes in Iran cuz of the sanctions, etc, ....but that takes actual effort and energy from those pretending to care. Instead we are left with people moaning about how bad and horrible Apu is, and how I have had to struggle because of him and his cartoony hindu accent. It's depressing and annoying seeing people telling me whats in the best interest of my people when they clearly have no idea(especially when its obvious they haven't even been to the middle east). Someone appropriating my culture doesn't really matter to me. I'm worried about there being middle easterns left alive to lay claim to their culture. As OP said, if anything its cool to see someone appreciating it enough to want to copy it or do something with it. /r
Funny, a person of colour finally speaks up about this bullshit and it gets ignored into oblivion because it doesn't match the overzealous, outrage-focused identity politics that's running rampant on this forum.

Funny, indeed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,800
Edmonton
Funny, a person of colour finally speaks up about this bullshit and it gets ignored into oblivion because it doesn't match the overzealous, outrage-focused identity politics that's running rampant on this forum.

Funny, indeed.
Ok. You honestly agree with everything in that post? Even the part where they apparently don’t care that someone would wear a turban or a hijab for Halloween? That part is so freaking weird, in that what would a person who decides to wear a hijab for Halloween be going out as? A Muslim Woman?

We can both discuss elements of our cultures being taken for entertainment and fashion purposes, and our home countries being bombed to shit (or having pro US dictators being propped up). The two aren’t mutually exclusive. But I love how you find the post that you favour because it aligns with how you feel, and then proceed to ignore the numerous other posts by other none white posters that are on the other side of this topic.

“Funny, a person of colour finally speaks up about this bullshit...”

Finally the right poster with the right viewpoint for you to use as a leaping board eh?
 

Spainkiller

Banned
Member
Jun 6, 2018
3
Finally the right poster with the right viewpoint for you to use as a leaping board eh?
Yup.

We can both discuss elements of our cultures being taken for entertainment and fashion purposes, and our home countries being bombed to shit (or having pro US dictators being propped up). The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
Very true! That wasn't my point, though. The point was that the person in question is, inherently, a much bigger authority on issues of cultural appropriation than the plethora of pasty neckbeards here — especially if you subscribe to the ridiculous notions of identity politics that most of you do, ironically — and yet no one felt the inclination to address his post whatsoever. I found that telling.

That part is so freaking weird, in that what would a person who decides to wear a hijab for Halloween be going out as? A Muslim Woman?
Well, duh. Muslim men don't wear hijabs.
 
Dec 4, 2018
1,051
Judging by the avatar, you're Danish, yes?

Gotta love when the descendants of the cultures that raped the continent of Africa say dumb shit like this.
Monarchies and regimes aren't cultures, and poor people in the countryside had nothing to do with what monarchs wanted to do. Big businesses and the rich classes did profit from it though and early popular culture in the early 1900s is disgusting. But it's not something people actually had any recourse against what the dominant classes wanted; they barely had food on the table, worked their ass off and lived in slums in the big cities or farms, or even under trees (while sheparding).

We're way more pieces of shit because people forget all the time we're, some more some less, all responsible for the anti-Semitism in Europe and the actual racism against Sinti and the other minorities originally from Asia and Africa.