Yeah, Nagato throwing away his entire ideology he's been following for 20 something years and just accepted Naruto's non-answer irked me even back then.
I feel like Sasuke is over hated honestly
- Thread starter DragonSJG
- Start date
Yeah, Nagato throwing away his entire ideology he's been following for 20 something years and just accepted Naruto's non-answer irked me even back then.
If I were to boil down to very obvious influences on naruto. It would be Dragon ball and yuyu hakusho. And while yuyu hakusho isn't the most complex, its a great deal more complex than dragon ball. And later Hunter X hunter even more so, a work that houses a myriad of criticisms of what dragon ball is. Those two styles of work are incongruous , they don't work together. Dragon Ball requires a level of flagrant disregard of what's right and wrong or even sensible to function. Where as yuyu hakusho and even more so hunter X hunter, require you tthink about what's right and wrong beyond a basic level. Naruto feels like these two types of manga fighting for dominance at times. And the dragon ball side tended to win out, making all emotional investment in the hakusho or hunter side... a lot less valuable.
I would not say boruto is boring, but in terms of villains things hold less weight
It's not just the villains either, Boruto's class has nothing on the original genin when it comes to potential and arguably their designs.
This I can get on board with, though I feel like at least Shinji has been getting some fairer evaluations lately as a result of people being more understanding of mental health issues.
Oh yeah, I agree with you. I just think that even within the bad parameters set by the narrative, Sasuke's handling is particularly bad because it brings down both the narrative and characters surrounding him due to how much of a main lingering thread it becomes. Orochimaru getting an out of nowhere "oh yeah we forgave him I guess???" is the closest worst offender, but it's comparatively harder to care when Oro is such a tertiary character in Shippuden, even though his actions are unquestionably worse and less justified.
OP
OP
And I feel like he's under hated. Dude is a terribly written character who did evil as fuck shit and suffered no consequences for it. And yet in spite of these things, we still have people that like the character enough that they post unprompted threads to defend him 5 years after the manga ended.
If you wanna like a character who went through some shit, betrayed his friends and went full villain, at least pick a well written character that fits that bill, you know, like Griffith or something
If you wanna like a character who went through some shit, betrayed his friends and went full villain, at least pick a well written character that fits that bill, you know, like Griffith or something
No one is defending Griffith. And those who do get side eyed.
Also sasuke betraying his friends, is actually arguable. Which is one of the narrative issues with naruto in general.
I think it's just right personally. A good majority of the characters in this series were dealt a crap hand and managed to abstain or bounce back from their terrible actions before they took it to the level Sasuke did. Sasuke was taken way to far before he was allowed to bounce back.
You don't see that though
You don't see any of those, they time skip them and they are magically better . And that's the issue with the series. Or naruto says " friendship " and despite 20 years of anger they are like " Ok " . That's on top of people just deal with different shit differently
:( that's the sad part, Asuka also has mental health issues, yet somehow that is overlooked. Is social isolation more understandable than putting up barriers?
It really stopped being arguable when Sasuke tried to murder Sakura
she wasn't his friend, at least at that time. He didn't care, he had beef with the village who tried to murder his family and she was in the way. You wanna make the argument that sasuke did bad shit , sure. But I have always found it weird people framed it at betraying his friends because sasuke didn't give a shit and the only thing he was " betraying " was his villiage and given they had murdered his family what was that worth to him. Also considering... I dunno they are ninjas and are tried to and participate in murder death tournaments at age 11, its just kinda... a job.
That there were plenty of valid reasons for him turning out the way he did doesn't absolve him for all the shit that he did. Any more than the other characters that Kishimoto gave a pass to because PoWeR oF fRiEnDsHiP.
Had Kishi committed to making him the final villain instead of trying to keep him a deuteragonist or whatever, Sasuke would've made far more sense as a character.
Had Kishi committed to making him the final villain instead of trying to keep him a deuteragonist or whatever, Sasuke would've made far more sense as a character.
I dunno, people who like characters like Sasuke, just well written?
I personally hate Griffith cuz he's an evil fucker (like sasuke) and ain't reading Berserk again until he dies
I think we do see it. Not many, and not for long, but it's shown. Gaara is someone who immediately comes to mind. It's certainly an issue with the series, no doubt about it, but even after being magically redeemed after a period of time off screen, they would still be shown doing more good than they did bad (on panel).
On the flip side, we spent more time with Sasuke on the bad side than we did with him on the good side and he seemed to just get worst until the very last mintue. Nevermind that what remaining redeeming qualities he had was thrown out further in Part 2. So at that point, it doesn't even feel like his past trauma is enough to excuse what he did.
If he had less panel time doing bad or kept a few redeeming qualities, I imagine the hate he has wouldn't be nearly as bad as it currently is.
He failed to capture killer bee because bee was just straight up better than him, sasuke took an actual fatal blow from bee, twice, and the only reason he survived was because of karin
Fuck Sasuke. One of the worst characters in all of Manga/Anime. It feels like Kishimoto early on wanted Sasuke and Naruto to clash it out in the final battle, but couldn't justify it organically, so he had to add crap like "Itachi was secretly a good guy all this time, never mind that he didn't do jack to stop Akatsuki after all these years"
From then on out Naruto just started spiraling out of control as it started to focus more on getting Sasuke back instead of what made the first three arcs good.
All of this was made even worse because Sasuke kept getting more and more unlikable as the series went on.
From then on out Naruto just started spiraling out of control as it started to focus more on getting Sasuke back instead of what made the first three arcs good.
All of this was made even worse because Sasuke kept getting more and more unlikable as the series went on.
I dissagree that was enough and one of my main problems . You needed to show gara dealing with that problem, its weird that him and multiple other characters just become... magically ok.
Who's trying to excuse sasuke. I'm not. If you think sasuke is bad, cool.
What my argument is, his progression as a character is justified. And everyone else is missing that progression.
Sakura was also trying to kill him at that point, wasn't she?
It certainly could have been expanded upon, but as I said, although their redemption was skipped, they were still shown being more good after the fact on the page.
I never said you were trying to excuse him. I'm saying his character reached a point where he lost the benefit of the doubt.
And my argument is it was justified up to a certain point. After Itachi's death, his actions became significantly more extreme and unforgivable.
That's the problem isn't it? The one person with the capability of holding him accountable for his actions let him off the hook and everybody has to be okay with it.
To be fair. He did leave that trap on Sasuke when he died because he knew Obito would take advantage of the situation. That would've solved everything since Pein would later be defeated and Tobi would be dead.
It's an actual scene. Have you not seen Thor Ragnarok? Fix this now lol.
Iirc yea, she was going to but couldnt muster the courage but I believe sasuke took it as a threat
You know it just occurred to me that Sasuke's main contribution to the akatsuki was
-taking an L from Killer Bee who he thought he beat, which inadvertently led the dude to naruto
-killing some fodder samurai while committing an awful terrorist attack, a summit that would've been attacked anyway
that entire war thing would've happened with or without him tbh
-taking an L from Killer Bee who he thought he beat, which inadvertently led the dude to naruto
-killing some fodder samurai while committing an awful terrorist attack, a summit that would've been attacked anyway
that entire war thing would've happened with or without him tbh
Don't forget that Kakashi pawned Naruto off to a random instructor in the Chunin exam when Naruto needed him the most.
Did Naruto really need him the most compared to Sasuke at that time? It wasn't really a random instructor either he specifically got the dude who specialized in training elites.
Seeing as how Naruto was facing Neji round 1 who was considered the favorite to win the tournament, and he barely scraped a win against Kiba in the prelims.... Yeah Naruto needed him. Naruto got lucky he met up with Jiraya.
Yeah Kakashi wanted to keep a close eye on Sasuke since people were after him, but why not take Naruto with him in the mountains along with Sasuke. Kakashi was setting Naruto up for failure.
Sasuke was fighting Gaara, someone way worse than Neji. Plus Sasuke was just way more compatible with the things the dude wanted to teach. I don't think there's a single thing Kakashi could've taught Naruto that would've helped him beat Neji as even the training from Jiraiya barely was a factor.
Kakashi also didn't teach Sakura anything...
That's my biggest problem with him.
He really sucked as a teacher.
That's my biggest problem with him.
He really sucked as a teacher.
She didn't even make it to the second round. Tbch it feels like Sasuke and Naruto were dead ass the only two people who trained during that one month time period. Everyone else was already stronger than them.
He noted Sakura was obsessed with Sasuke and had weak combat abilities.
He should've, I don't know, WORKED on that?
Its amazing that Naruto was with Jiraiya all that time and he didn't even tell him about chakra natures. Honestly that's the kind of shit you'd think they'd tell you in the academy.
Honestly, after how disappointed I was in how it ended. I dropped the anime, I didn't care to see the rest animated.
To be honest, it's not that Sasuke is particularly worse written than the rest of Naruto, it's just that by having more screentime he's subjected to more development and therefore more bad writing lol so while some characters get stuck with one or two moments that make you go "wait a minute, that's not super consistent" you sort of brush off because they stop existing post their primary arc. Sasuke just has the screentime to have enough of those moments to pile up on top of each other lol
Sasuke was omega crazy and he needed to focus on him, and goddamn it he was right wasn't he?