I love Sylvando from Dragon Quest XI, but I can't tell if he's supposed to be mocking gay people.

[Deleted member 32822]

A while back I made a thread about how Dragon Quest XI just wasn't the game for me. Well low and behold, I decided to just stick with it and I've ended up quite liking it! One of the biggest reasons is because of Sylvando.

With LGBT representation being so incredibly limited in video games – especially Japanese video games (to the point where I consider Vanille and Fang gay just to beef up our numbers) – it's wonderful to see a gay character play a major role in a video game and being unapologetic about who he is. That being said...I can't help but wonder if Sylvando isn't actually meant to be a proud gay man, but rather an offensive caricature of what people think gay men act like.

There's this gray space between the creator's intention and the fans' interpretation that I'm operating in, where I recognize Sylvando as someone who isn't ashamed of who they are, but that's because I'm also a queer person and am playing through that perspective. On the other hand, to the average person, Sylvando might just be a total joke that is just a conglomeration of every gay stereotype you could possibly think of wrapped into one.

I also can't help but think of that DQXI composer who is also homophobic...who I realize (obviously) has no input on the character design, but the proximity of that mess and this character makes my brain do funky things.

What do you all think?

Bonus gifs that make me happy:

 

[Osahi]

As a straight person I found him kind of offensive to be honest. He felt very clichéd and goofy to me, and i couldn't think but 'aren't we passed representation like this?'. I was a bit suprised how positive he was received by the gay community, so I'm probably wrong? :P

 

[Deleted member 249]

I never felt Sylvando was supposed to be a caricature. He's a fantastically flamboyant gay character with no tiresome tropes getting in the way. I don't know how the character could possibly be read otherwise.

That said, I'm a straight person, and my opinion holds less water than that of gay people. My general understanding is he was well received, but maybe I am wrong.

 

[Camjo-Z]

If he is then they did a shitty job of it because he's awesome.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

the only character that makes me cringe a bit is Jade
sorry Phantom Thief

 

[Swift_Gamer]

I'm gay, Sylvando is simply amazing, he doesn't mock gay people, he is practically a celebration of feminine gay men, he is loved by the characters and by his father.
He is not a joke character, he is not weak, he has an arc about acceptance.
I love Sylvando.

 

[Premium Ghoul]

Slyvando rules.

Whenever Sylvando isn't on screen, the other characters should be asking "where's Sylvando?"

 

[SpokkX]

As a straight person I found him kind of offensive to be honest. He felt very clichéd and goofy to me, and i couldn't think but 'aren't we passed representation like this?'. I was a bit suprised how positive he was received by the gay community, so I'm probably wrong? :P

Click to shrink...

I felt pretty much like this - surprised he was so praised

 

[Kromeo]

I don't think so, he's camp in the extreme but I don't think it's played for laughs particularly and he comes across as a likeable and well written character

 

[CrazyIvan]

I wrestled with the same thing as I played through the game.

Where I personally landed was comparing him to the FABULOUS fierceness I see as an avid fan of RuPaul's Drag Race. Sylvando felt at home with that kind of flamboyant culture, and through that lens felt empowering. But that's also carrying my own personal view into the mix and might not be what the developers intended.

If they were going for caricature/stereotype, then they totally missed the mark for me, personally. He was fierce and brilliant in my book.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

I don't see an issue. If the gay community had a problem with him we'd hear about it.

 

[Truly Gargantuan]

My reading as a straight man is that Sylvando is a bit stereotypical (that gay lisp is a bit much) but has too many awesome moments to hate the character.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I thought he was embracing it.

 

[Dark_Castle]

Not a single character I encounter in the game made fun of him and his father even eventually get along with Sylvando's decisions. The opposite really. He even gets his own groupie and it was sweet when they share that connection and see the game just embraces it.

 

[Swift_Gamer]

I thought he was embracing it.

Click to shrink...

Not only he is, his storyline about

Spoiler

not wanting to be a knight but being a circus member and make people laugh

is an allegory for not being straight.

 

[Revolsin]

If he hits on everything that moves like I see some gay stereotypes doing, then it's a bad.

 

[MegaSackman]

I'm gay, Sylvando is simply amazing, he doesn't mock gay people, he is practically a celebration of feminine gay men, he is loved by the characters and by his father.
He is not a joke character, he is not weak, he has an arc about acceptance.
I love Sylvando.

Click to shrink...

This, just when you expect his father to curse him out of town he only gets mad at Sylvando because he didn't finish his self ordered task (which wasn't what his father wanted but you ended up knowing that he supported all the way).

 

[Open Wound]

My two cents as a straight man in this matter is that Sylvando's portrayal is empowering and just great overall, while I find his entourage's portrayal as deeply problematic.

 

[ReddishGUI]

He's a fabulous badass.

 

[closer]

He is unabashed, like i think there is definitely space for ppl to question his portrayal but at the same time he feels pretty singular. In the end he was just completely sylvando to me and not really representitive of anything but himself, i thought they did a pretty good job at keeping that vibe. Spoiler, the idea that him being one of the first ppl you run into post-dark world stuff and he's already doing his WORK is great to me and a really nice portrayal of the character. He is like decidedly himself, this person raised on chivalry, who doesn't reject it but appropriates it in his own way.

 

[Deleted member 249]

If he hits on everything that moves like I see some gay stereotypes doing, then it's a bad.

Click to shrink...

Doesn't hit on anything at all

the only character that makes me cringe a bit is Jade
sorry Phantom Thief

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Blocked

 

[Zacmortar]

I despise flamboyant characters, but he's atleast a good dude apparently

Better than what we usually get I guess

 

[7threst]

I'm gay, Sylvando is simply amazing, he doesn't mock gay people, he is practically a celebration of feminine gay men, he is loved by the characters and by his father.
He is not a joke character, he is not weak, he has an arc about acceptance.
I love Sylvando.

Click to shrink...

So much this. As a gay man I found Sylvando absolutely awesome! His flamboyant character might be a bit cliche, but whatever, he totally rocks and is my favorite character from the game.

 

[Brunire]

One of the strongest knights in the world? Check.
The best entertainer in the world? Check.
Incredibly charismatic leader? Check.

He is far from a joke character. He truly is just awesome.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Blocked

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Just don't block me with your butt while moaning out loud

 

[TelluricTokoro]

How can he be mocking gay people? He doesn't even explicitly identify as gay, he's just highly effeminate.

Anyway, Sylvando is easily the best character in Dragon Quest XI. He's never the butt of any jokes, the characters don't regard him with disdain, and he has the shining approval of his old man. He's literally the opposite of mocking, and probably the most fun character in a JRPG I've ever seen.

I want more Sylvandos, not fewer.

 

[Hentailover]

I think the line in is in his role in the story and presentation. Sure he is flamboyant, but he is also very admirable, supportive, and in general a positive likeable character. Even when he is a part of a joke, it doesn't come off as deragotory or mocking because his dignity is preserved and carries him through it.

 

[sibarraz]

Even though he has lots of traits that are common in gay stereotypes, by the end of the day he was still portrayed as a noble, brave and powerful knight, at no point was implied that being gay was a negative that made him weaker like has happened with other characters in media sometimes

Also, the party never mocked him at all, if this was Persona the rest of the party would constantly ask him to stop being gay around them

Sylvando is a rare case where being an stereotype enhanced the character, sincenit showcased sexuality in a game where they would have never made a main character openly admit that is gay

 

[Zacmortar]

How can he be mocking gay people? He doesn't even explicitly identify as gay, he's just highly effeminate.

Anyway, Sylvando is easily the best character in Dragon Quest XI. He's never the butt of any jokes, the characters don't regard him with disdain, and he has the shining approval of his old man. He's literally the opposite of mocking, and probably the most fun character in a JRPG I've ever seen.

I want more Sylvandos, not fewer.

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This too

Equating effeminating with homosexuality is a problem in itself

 

[QuadOpto]

It definitely feels like he's a stereotype or exaggeration, but not necessarily a "negative" one -- He's a positive character, has positive reactions with practially everyone in the world, contributes massively to the story (at times even being the one who pulls the group along) at certain parts and is never the butt of any negative or mean-spirited jokes; in that sense he doesn't seem like someone the developers or story writers wanted to be seen as just a character to laugh at.

He's definitely one of the most memorable party members I've had in RPGs.

 

[Rbz]

I had this exact conversation with my wife. I'm leaning towards him not being mocking but it's somewhat close. The biggest thing that carries it for me is how he is portrayed outside of being fabulously flamboyant: brave, kind, talented. The game treats him as a noble and capable person; in no way is he the butt of the joke there. His antics are almost cartoonish sometimes, but because he is portrayed so heroically and positively outside of that, I see it as saying "proud gay people can be the hero too", which is actually really great.

Certainly a better portrayal of gay people than Persona 5, ugh.

 

[Sub Boss]

well..
If you liked it, maybe the developers at least did something good? It looks fun that parade.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I have a lot of issues with the writing in DQXI, but Sylv isn't one of them. He's a little camp, but he's never presented as creepy or lecherous and never makes passes at people. He's a strong, intelligent man who cares about his friends (perhaps moreso than anyone else in the cast save for maybe Rab) who also just happens to be effeminate.

I like him a lot. He's a far cry from some of the weirder gay JRPG party members like Papillon from Shadow Hearts 2.

 

[Mendrox]

Loved his arc about acceptance.

 

[Dark_Castle]

If he hits on everything that moves like I see some gay stereotypes doing, then it's a bad.

Click to shrink...

Just curious, did you play the game yourself? He's really flamboyant in these gifs, but in game he actually come across as a genuine down to earth character who actually shows struggle of his identity and his career path and his parents expectations of him. It was very humane story telling and Sylvando just has a very positive vibe to him and he kicks asses, and never a subject of ridicule for being a queer, at least not to my knowledge.

Not to mention Game play wise, Sylvando is a literal godsend especially in stronger enemies mode for early aoe healing. Just more reason to love him.

 

[Zacmortar]

Even though he has lots of traits that are common in gay stereotypes, by the end of the day he was still portrayed as a noble, brave and powerful knight, at no point was implied that being gay was a negative that made him weaker like has happened with other characters in media sometimes

Also, the party never mocked him at all, if this was Persona the rest of the party would constantly ask him to stop being gay around them

Sylvando is a rare case where being an stereotype enhanced the character, sincenit showcased sexuality in a game where they would have never made a main character openly admit that is gay

Click to shrink...

A dude acting fabulous isn't gay representation

 

[Lozange]

Sylvando, to me, is an example of really toeing the line between offensive stereotype and not that. If he was done badly, he definitely would be offensive, but because he's well written and has a lot of nuance, he ends up being pretty cool. (Also his English voice actor does a great job of selling said nuance)
I wouldn't want every gay character to be like Sylvando, but for what his character is going for, he's great.

 

[Sorel]

I never felt Sylvando was supposed to be a caricature. He's a fantastically flamboyant gay character with no tiresome tropes getting in the way. I don't know how the character could possibly be read otherwise.

That said, I'm a straight person, and my opinion holds less water than that of gay people. My general understanding is he was well received, but maybe I am wrong.

Click to shrink...

I'm in the exact same spot. He's my favorite character, he clearly got the more care put in his animation, like at every cutscene I was watching him, so expressive.

 

[Liethe]

He is obviously really flamboyant. So in this way I can see why it could perpetuate the whole, "all gay men act like this" stereotype.

but at the same time I found his character so genuine and friendly that I honestly found nothing wrong with him. He's great in my book.

 

[molnizzle]

Sylvando is the best, darling.

 

[Garlador]

He's the best gay JRPG hero since Shadow Heart's Joachim.

I think we're at a point where we can accept that flamboyance isn't anything to be ashamed of. Even if it's a trait associated with gay people, that's not a negative association unless someone wants it to be. Part of flamboyance is the pride in who you are, the showmanship of being who you want to be unapologetically. I think it's great, myself.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

As a straight person I found him kind of offensive to be honest. He felt very clichéd and goofy to me, and i couldn't think but 'aren't we passed representation like this?'. I was a bit suprised how positive he was received by the gay community, so I'm probably wrong? :P

Click to shrink...

I felt pretty much like this - surprised he was so praised

Click to shrink...

If you find a flamboyant male character offensive or problematic, the problem is most certainly you.

 

[Mister X]

He's the best gay JRPG hero since Shadow Heart's Joachim.

I think we're at a point where we can accept that flamboyance isn't anything to be ashamed of. Even if it's a trait associated with gay people, that's not a negative association unless someone wants it to be. Part of flamboyance is the pride in who you are, the showmanship of being who you want to be unapologetically. I think it's great, myself.

Click to shrink...

Lol he was gay?

 

[Xagarath]

Sylvando is famous and admired even before you meet him. He's presented as noble, brave, capable and warm-hearted in cutscenes, and no-one in the game ever treats him with mockery.
I had my doubts starting the game, but was very pleasantly surprised. He's great.

 

[Shogun]

I don't think he's mocking gay people at all. I guess the biggest criticism you could throw at the character would be that he's a stereotypical flamboyant Drag Race type of personality but even then it's rare we got those in games.

 

[Timeaisis]

I found Sylvando to be campy and hilarious -- two things I interpreted as a loving celebration, but I guess one could take it the other way. The fact is the character is smart, caring, skilled, and a great leader, so if they were trying to mock gay people, well, they did a bad job at it.

 

[CortexVortex]

As a straight man I absolutely loved Sylv. He is probably one of my favorite characters of this generation. Yes, he is flamboyant but his character is much more than just that. He is one of the bravest and most respected warriors in the whole DQ11 world and the only thing he is scared of is that

Spoiler: spoiler I guess

his father does not accept him and might even be ashamed of him. But in the end that is not even true and he loves him as much as when Sylvando was just an ordinary knight.

Great character and the Smile Brigade is awesome.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

The way he's implemented into the story and game is pretty good despite the stereotype, actually. No one in the game treats him lesser because of his hyper flamboyant personality, in fact many embrace it. He's treated and seen as a strong and honorable knight, someone that people can rely on. His flamboyant behavior is also seen as a light of hope and joy during some dark periods in the story. He's not suppose to mock gay people, he's meant to show you that people are different, that we should embrace our differences and not judge people for being different in terms of social norms. Sylvando is a good man with a good heart, he wants to help people and make them smile even is the darkest days.

 

[Deleted member 49438]

He is not a joke character, he is not weak, he has an arc about acceptance.
I love Sylvando.

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Sylvando's moments of seriousness towards the protag always made you sit back & take notice. Definitely one of my favorite party members alongside Serena & Veronica.

 

[J_ToSaveTheDay]

I found his flamboyance and almost unflinching competence as a positive, but it's not at all a stretch to see how it might be construed as caricature.