AgreeThinking back on it, TP, WW, and SS do all have this style. I guess I just care for it more than I do the way BOTW did things.
Opinions, amirite?
AgreeThinking back on it, TP, WW, and SS do all have this style. I guess I just care for it more than I do the way BOTW did things.
Opinions, amirite?
I'll never fail to be amused by the die-hard BotW fans that almost seem personally offended that someone didn't consider it to be the best game ever.
I think they will definitely return to having dungeons, but they will be more Hyrule Castle than Forest Temple.I don't remember where I read this, but I remember hearing that the reason standard Zelda dungeons weren't included in BotW was because when playtesting other Zelda games they found that the average player was most likely to quit playing in the middle of a long dungeon. Thus, they made dungeons in BotW relatively short and fully optional.
If that's true, and given the success of BotW, I don't see Nintendo returning to the NP formula for a long, long time.
A dungeon with the length of an old one in a game like BOTW would completely break the pace of the game.
It is simply too long.
Yeah, I agree. Themed shrines, and themed dungeons. Also, have the dungeons have multiple entrances, that can be stumbled upon from the open world in various ways, and can be solved and progressed through in various ways depending on the point of entry as well (basically Hyrule Castle style).
Dungeons could take 1-2 hours. I get why BotW went with shorter ones.Were dungeons really that long? It's been a while since I played those older Zelda games. I remember them being challenging though and figuring things out could take a while.
Not long enough that you couldn't beat them in a single day of the 3 day cycle without slowing down time. Thats pretty short.Were dungeons really that long? It's been a while since I played those older Zelda games. I remember them being challenging though and figuring things out could take a while.
"I can't roll my eyes harder" is being passive aggressive, not disagreeing.Acting like people are throwing a fit for disagreeing and are so so upset and calling them hysteric is alt right shit, so own what you do. Pretty obviously you tried to bait people with your hot take but then when they respond apparently you didn't do anything to question.
Yeah, definitely. It's what Aonuma alluded to as well when he first announced Zelda U. I would like for that to happen. And this would also solve the progression problem (give each dungeon a critical path depending on one power or item, but have those be bypassable, via alternate paths that can be used, but are harder/longer).Wow this is actually a real cool idea. It might be hard, but I think it would be neat to have an underground dungeon you approach from different openings in the hub world, and you solve various puzzles to "reach" the center.
Just an idea that played off of yours. I really liked your suggestion above and it made my mind wander
They had the correct length for a linear game like the old Zeldas, not for one like BOTWWere dungeons really that long? It's been a while since I played those older Zelda games. I remember them being challenging though and figuring things out could take a while.
Yea, some people act like actually stunned that some people just dont find botw amazing.I'll never fail to be amused by the die-hard BotW fans that almost seem personally offended that someone didn't consider it to be the best game ever.
I guess the one nice thing about going the BOTW route is that nintendo has lots of room to innovate, the OOT style might need to be shelved (but not forever) to give it time to grow and new good original ideas to be formed that use that design.Yeah, definitely. It's what Aonuma alluded to as well when he first announced Zelda U. I would like for that to happen. And this would also solve the progression problem (give each dungeon a critical path depending on one power or item, but have those be bypassable, via alternate paths that can be used, but are harder/longer).
I think they should definitely do something like this, because it would suit the BotW style as well.
Oh Angst, the new God of War is a good Zelda-like, if you haven't tried that out already.
Dungeons, yes, but I feel like heart pieces are unnecessary, given that Spirit Orbs already serve that exact function. Just hide them in the world as well, instead of only in Shrines.
I can understand that some people dont botw. It had poor dungeons.
"Wasn't that great"Oh my actual god you gigantic baby, I didn't even call the game bad.
BOTW is basically a template, it can and will be iterated upon immensely. If BOTW is the Zelda 1 analog, then I hope for the next game to be our LTTP to its Zelda 1. All of which is to say, you can add structure and guided progression to a game like BotW without sacrificing what makes it great. I am eager to see where Nintendo goes now.I guess the one nice thing about going the BOTW route is that nintendo has lots of room to innovate, the OOT style might need to be shelved (but not forever) to give it time to grow and new good original ideas to be formed that use that design.
I'll admit it's kind of a hipster statement, but I don't give a fuck. I tried playing 20 hours of BotW from the start TWICE and I'm sure I'll finish it... someday, but that in itself is just telling me that I don't love it. It's missing some of the core Zelda reward systems in terms of progression and approach to design and its replacements are just not impressing me enough. It has that initial allure and sense of awe though - it just wears off...Yea, some people act like actually stunned that some people just dont find botw amazing.
I completely agree with this. Not to be harsh, but BotW is almost like a prototype. A really, super robust and finalized prototype that is a perfect blueprint for another game similar to it, but with just one or two more critical story moments that happen during its middle, better writing and better dungeons. The systems are now all there, and I hope they hold on to some of them, especially their simulative elements in the world.BOTW is basically a template, it can and will be iterated upon immensely.
Early into the game, I realized GoW was exactly what I originally wanted botw to be.Oh Angst, the new God of War is a good Zelda-like, if you haven't tried that out already.
That'd be badass, yeah. I get why they didn't do that (Spirit Orbs are "EXP"), but I like your idea.Worst-case scenario, I wish they at least make Heart Pieces and Stamina Vessels separate so you don't know which one you'll get when doing a shrine. It's a simple thing but it would make the game more rewarding to me.
What's wrong with not finding it great?"Wasn't that great"
Truly a shining endorsement if there ever was one.
Do you, do you understand that others do like it, and just accept that? because given how you enter every BOTW thread to tell people who like it they are wrong, I am not sure you do (and honestly that is as tiresome as aggressive BOTW fans unable to understand people may not like it).I'll admit it's kind of a hipster statement, but I don't give a fuck. I tried playing 20 hours of BotW from the start TWICE and I'm sure I'll finish it... someday, but that in itself is just telling me that I don't love it. It's missing some of the core Zelda reward systems in terms of progression and approach to design and its replacements are just not impressing me enough. It has that initial allure and sense of awe though - it just wears off...
I don't care about being hipster or not about what I like/dislike. I like a lot of mainstream things, and dislike other mainstream loved things. I just didn't really like it.I'll admit it's kind of a hipster statement, but I don't give a fuck. I tried playing 20 hours of BotW from the start TWICE and I'm sure I'll finish it... someday, but that in itself is just telling me that I don't love it. It's missing some of the core Zelda reward systems in terms of progression and approach to design and its replacements are just not impressing me enough. It has that initial allure and sense of awe though - it just wears off...
Like TP but make them better games.
I think that BotW can be improved upon (which is exciting given how fantastic it already is), but I would rather it be taken as the base and be added to, rather than us move back towards the N64 style again.
My only beef is it felt like I spent a lot of time just wandering around in BOTW. I really like having a bit more structure. Im hoping the next zelda sequel keeps it open world but gives me that structure I'm desperately craving.BOTW is basically a template, it can and will be iterated upon immensely. If BOTW is the Zelda 1 analog, then I hope for the next game to be our LTTP to its Zelda 1. All of which is to say, you can add structure and guided progression to a game like BotW without sacrificing what makes it great. I am eager to see where Nintendo goes now.
I think the closest example I had to this "playing another game that turned out to give me my Zelda fix" was playing Arkham City. It isn't 1:1 a Zelda formula but man it's got some of the right ideas, especially in how there's a hub, it has side-content that is all optional, then the main story goes into "dungeons" which are themed locations with unusual obstacles that you can't seem to overcome, then you find a mid-point which unlocks Batman's new gadget and going back through the previously unexplorable areas become an empowering ride using the new ability, and finally facing a boss that uses the game's core mechanics in subversive ways until you're done.Early into the game, I realized GoW was exactly what I originally wanted botw to be.
I'm not great at thread creation yet, but it boils down to missing the smaller boxed in structure of the previous games and missing the linerality and progression the old zeldas had.Those kind of threads are so weird. It ask for more of the same, but don't really pin point what made them actually good. Only loose term like best desing and ritgh size.
Zelda randomizer is a bless for this honestlyEver since Master Quest finally came to the US, my dream has been that either Nintendo or the modding community make a "Zelda 64 Maker" and we just drown in content. Always been hungry for more.
This has already been done in Zelda ALTTP: Skull Woods DungeonWow this is actually a real cool idea. It might be hard, but I think it would be neat to have an underground dungeon you approach from different openings in the hub world, and you solve various puzzles to "reach" the center.
I definitely see Nintendo's conundrum: you make a go-anywhere world, and you still have to account for the player's power level without having hard levels or EXP in the game, I get why it was tough to balance the whole thing. I think BotW is an admirable answer to that question, but like I said, it's not the final answer, just the beginning to one. It can definitely be built upon further, and I hope that yes, a future Zelda game will take BOTW, but add more nuanced and elaborate dungeons and bosses to it. As a person who thinks Breath of the Wild is the greatest game ever made, I will be utterly disappointed if the next Zelda game is just... Breath of the Wild again.I feel exactly this way. BOTW should and will be the base for the next Zelda I think. BOTW's dungeons and boss fights are actually I think weaker than past Zeldas, but the overworld/open world is so far and away superior to past Zeldas that it revolutionized the series. BOTW is something new and that concept should be expanded upon.
For me BOTW with OOT style dungeons and boss battles and a good story would be the GOAT. Could be challenging because I think Nintendo has struggled a bit in terms of how to do dungeons and give players all those open-world tools early on, rather than as you complete dungeons. And because players have so much freedom in open world, they have to make the dungeons a little more confined and limiting.
I wouldn't want hard progression gating. What I think Nintendo should do is be willing to make some areas harder and some easier. If a player tries going into a harder area, getting their ass kicked is enough to dissuade them from attempting to go in again until they are stronger, and they'll automatically veer towards an easier area. In BOTW, Nintendo made the difficulty across all areas flat, which I feel is a less rewarding alternative.My only beef is it felt like I spent a lot of time just wandering around in BOTW. I really like having a bit more structure. Im hoping the next zelda sequel keeps it open world but gives me that structure I'm desperately craving.
Also unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I LIKE when areas are locked off to me until I get the appropriate equipment. Gives me a real sense of reward and progression.
That'd be badass, yeah. I get why they didn't do that (Spirit Orbs are "EXP"), but I like your idea.
Yeah, that's definitely not happening. The freedom of exploration is one of the most popular aspects of the game and the biggest reason why it was considered so revolutionary coming off of titles like Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword. You're not locked into a glorified hub where the dungeons are wheel spokes you can only enter in a set order.Also unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I LIKE when areas are locked off to me until I get the appropriate equipment. Gives me a real sense of reward and progression.
Some people think they could have evolved the original formula instead of changing the entire genre.A lot of people are burned out on 2 decades of OoT style and BotW was just what was needed. Is it really a surprise so many people are turned off by the fact people want to return to that after just 1 game?
A smaller BotW with less oversized parts of environments and again, a middlepiece to the main story's progression (rather than the plodding "flashbacks" to deliver a story that only happens when the player decides to trigger it) I think would be an interesting iteration on the BotW engine. However, I gotta be honest, I think the streamlining of Link's ability-set needs to go too. "The shiekah-slate does everything" replacement for unique items doesn't completely fix the previous issue of getting items that are redundant outside of the specific dungeon, so much as it just dumbed everything down and made the whole game more monotonous to go through.I'm not great at thread creation yet, but it boils down to missing the smaller boxed in structure of the previous games and missing the linerality and progression the old zeldas had.
They did evolve the format. Multiple times. Over twenty years.Some people think they could have evolved the original formula instead of changing the entire genre.
BotW is in fact an evolution of the formula. A dramatic one. It's okay if you don't like said evolution, but evolution is what it is.Some people think they could have evolved the original formula instead of changing the entire genre.
And they could have evolved it more.They did evolve the format. Multiple times. Over twenty years.
But then I don't feel like there is any real sense of progression in the game. Link never got better at anything besides running longer and taking more hits. what you got in the beginning was it.Yeah, that's definitely not happening. The freedom of exploration is one of the most popular aspects of the game and the biggest reason why it was considered so revolutionary coming off of titles like Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword. You're not locked into a glorified hub where the dungeons are wheel spokes you can only enter in a set order.
They didn't really change Zelda's genre, though. The format, sure. They opened up the world and changed the concept of dungeons and items around. But that's an evolution of taking what Zelda was. They looked at the two decades of Zelda titles since Ocarina of Time and evolved it.And they could have evolved it more.
It would be like if they made a new Fire emblem and completely changed the genre.