More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,691
im saying "i"don't consider TLOU good enough to be a masterpiece. Its overrated to "me".
Not a masterpiece. Maybe Sony/Naughty Dog's best game but better then Ocarina of time, Alttp, Super Mario world, morrowind, chrono trigger, FF8, or Torment? Um, no.

Literally every year on the internet flocks of gamers call a game the GOAT. Last year BOTW, this year God of War. Next year will be another "masterpiece". Its all hyperbolic.
That's not what you're saying according to this. Your comment is literally listing classic games as examples of what entails "masterpiece" to you and then saying that the recent games being called masterpieces is just people being hyperbolic

Hence me making the distinction between classic and masterpiece
 

semiconscious

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,140
I really enjoyed it when it first came out, but I enjoyed it way less the moment the story DLC and sequels came into existence. It was such an excellent self-contained story, I never wanted to see those characters again.

It's the same thing that bogged down the new God of War for me. I just feel drained the moment people start talking about trilogies. It's like people keep making the game equivalents of The Arrival or Annihilation and then try to turn them into Star Wars or The Avengers.

i kinda get where you're coming from. while i don't enjoy last of us any less, i'm seriously wary of what they're up to with last of us 2. really hoping i'll love it, but can't really say, having seen the stuff they've shown so far, that i'm positive that i will at this point :) ...
 

zenspider

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
1,583
This happens for anything, you'll always have people hot taking after the fact. TLOU was and is a masterpiece


Retrospection is like the exact opposite of a hot take. It's also really interesting that it happens a lot because most hobbyist outlets and forums are market focused, not posterity focused, so that it does feel like it brews organically and then some market news bring those feelings up again. Also, it's tough holding an popular opinion, especially on a forum like ERA where people seem to really put a lot of effort to dismiss or marginalize them. I know the fact that, because on it's face a retrospective take has more credibility, it can come off "hot take"-ish, but I think decoupling games from their market hype is super valuable for genuine criticism.

Semi-related, I'm looking to give TLOU another chance, and I'll probably consult ERA on how best to fairly approach it. I've try and give credit where credit is due for it's accomplishments, but my enjoyment peaked at the intro, and by the time I was laying planks down in that hold-up's Walking Dead booby trap town, I was painfully bored.
 

nycgamer4ever

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
861
Funny. I've seen nothing but people grow increasingly of the opinion that "No, yeah. It's actually really okay in retrospect. Not the masterpiece we said it was." Like, the gameplay and generic zombie story haven't aged well imo. But neither were really great in the first place. The ending was nice, but there's so much about that story that comes off as super shallow. Joel gets a lot of development, but it comes at the cost of Ellie's character just being a snarky personality with no depth. She's been there for what happens in a lot of other's lives, but nothing really for her own.

What is this nonsense? Plenty of people still love the game and think it's a masterpiece. It's still selling well 5 years later. How many games can do that. Sure there will be people of that opinion since everyone is different. I am sure not everyone loved it at launch. Doesn't make the game crap all of a sudden five years later.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
TLoU blends gameplay and story telling in a way I havent seen before. To the point where the connection of the two elevates both. The gameplay wouldnt be as good withour story and character context and the story wouldnt work as well if it werent for the brutal, visceral gameplay to frame it.

So I can understand that people who dont get/like one of these two aspect dont perceive the entire package as a masterpiece.
If the story doesnt resonate with you the gameplay lacks a very important element.
And if you dont like the TPS/stealth mechanics you miss out on a major factor that sells the world and story.
 

Canucked

Comics Council 2020 & Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,438
Canada
The last of us is amazing. The only game from that long 8 year generation to make it into my top 5 games. I still play through it once a year.
 

Barrel Cannon

It's Pronounced "Aerith"
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,446
I loved the game and still enjoy replaying through it. Even though I don't enjoy it as much as I once did, it deserves the accolades it received. The story-telling, voice acting and visuals of it were such a great leap(even from Uncharted 3) and that alone doesn't make a masterpiece. It did however treat it's story telling with a lot of respect and was a banner for what gaming can be as an art-form in storytelling. I rank it up with Half Life 2 as something revolutionary for storytelling in gaming.
 

nycgamer4ever

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
861
Retrospection is like the exact opposite of a hot take. It's also really interesting that it happens a lot because most hobbyist outlets and forums are market focused, not posterity focused, so that it does feel like it brews organically and then some market news bring those feelings up again. Also, it's tough holding an popular opinion, especially on a forum like ERA where people seem to really put a lot of effort to dismiss or marginalize them. I know the fact that, because on it's face a retrospective take has more credibility, it can come off "hot take"-ish, but I think decoupling games from their market hype is super valuable for genuine criticism.

Semi-related, I'm looking to give TLOU another chance, and I'll probably consult ERA on how best to fairly approach it. I've try and give credit where credit is due for it's accomplishments, but my enjoyment peaked at the intro, and by the time I was laying planks down in that hold-up's Walking Dead booby trap town, I was painfully bored.

Game doesn't even really take off until after that town. There is like 15 more hours to go. I'd say go back and five it a shot. And I'm sure that the TLOU is a masterpiece because the honeymoon period is long gone and the game still sells well 5 years later. Not only that if you start a thread about discussing the story and ending you will still get a lot of people who will debate over the story and their interpretation of the ending. If that is not a testament to how good the game then what is? Not everyone will like it and that is fine but playing just a small portion as you did is not enough to for an accurate opinion of the overall experience.

As for how to approach the game, general consensus is to play on hard with listen mode off.
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
This game is firmly entrenched in my top 5 and is the only non "open world RPG" type game I can replay.

In fact, I'm replaying it right now!
 

Kivvi

Member
Jun 25, 2018
1,708
I don't know, couldn't get into the gameplay and the story didn't hold me to continue.
I should give the game a second chance I guess...
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,691
on the other side there's the army of naughty puppies who cannot understand how their game of all times can be disliked, that's fun to read too
There's a difference between not liking something and saying that something is poorly-made or bad.

Like I disliked The Shining, Alien, and Blade Runner for years; my dislike didn't mean those movies were bad.

Saying you disliked something is different from going how it can be a masterpiece if I thought it was bad/boring/etc.
 
Last edited:

kinoki

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,755
Perhaps it's just me but I've always felt that it's too long and too restricted by its original hardware to be anything other than a pretty okay zombie-game with far too many cutscenes. It took me several months to get through it my first time around and the artificial seams just became too apparent while playing that it just took me out of the experience. Playing it on the PS4 later really hammered home, to me, how limited the game was and how badly the PS3 restricted the developer's ideas in execution. Also, the story did nothing to me. I never got why it needed to be told or what new it brought to the table.
 

Night Hunter

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,816
Are you sure you're not confusing honeymoon period with revisionist history? God of War did many things well, but it wasn't a masterpiece. Many of its systems felt way too "me too" as well and almost tacked on just because they were mechanics that happened to be popular in every other game a the time. Take out the production values and what does it have that truly stands out? An above average combat system. But in a world where right now the "average" combat system is already at a low bar, does that really mean much?

Well, that was fast ...
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,602
Texas
There's a difference between not liking something and saying that something is poorly-made or bad.

Like I disliked The Shining, Alien, and Blade Runner for years; my dislike didn't mean those movies were bad.

Saying you disliked something is different from going how it can be a masterpiece if I thought it was bad/boring/etc
Nailed it. People's failure to see how something can be good without aligning with their personal tastes shows how warped and insular their worldviews are
 

Al3x1s

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
2,824
Greece
I mean, if it wasn't after just 5 years (so basically a current title given even hardware generations can last longer than that, even if that was on the previous line of hardware originally) then it never was. Talk to me when it's been 20 years and it should by all accounts have been left in the dust technologically and technique and feature and experience wise yet somehow it remains relevant on every gaming level (ie, something like OoT - with its by all current accounts horrid 20fps - which will be 20 this November).
 

Deleted member 17207

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,208
TLoU blends gameplay and story telling in a way I havent seen before. To the point where the connection of the two elevates both. The gameplay wouldnt be as good withour story and character context and the story wouldnt work as well if it werent for the brutal, visceral gameplay to frame it.

So I can understand that people who dont get/like one of these two aspect dont perceive the entire package as a masterpiece.
If the story doesnt resonate with you the gameplay lacks a very important element.
And if you dont like the TPS/stealth mechanics you miss out on a major factor that sells the world and story.
Really?

Have you ever played Bioshock? Majora's Mask?

There are plenty of games that blend the two in more clever ways. Also TLOU's gameplay is boring af IMO, so it's not a good blend at all lol.. It's more like you're playing a movie, not a video game. It's not that I "don't get" one of these two aspects, I just think it's not very fun to play at all, and there are games that are way more fun to play while also blending with a great story in interesting ways.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Funny. I've seen nothing but people grow increasingly of the opinion that "No, yeah. It's actually really okay in retrospect. Not the masterpiece we said it was." Like, the gameplay and generic zombie story haven't aged well imo. But neither were really great in the first place. The ending was nice, but there's so much about that story that comes off as super shallow. Joel gets a lot of development, but it comes at the cost of Ellie's character just being a snarky personality with no depth. She's been there for what happens in a lot of other's lives, but nothing really for her own.

What a bad take. Ellie absolutely has character development. She is not the same person at the end of the game as she was at the beginning. Hell, I'd say the game is more focused on her development than Joel's.
 

Charismagik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,226
Other than the story, it was your standard 3rd person hide and seek cover shooter. I couldn't get past the goofiness of girl running circles around zombie things while being stealthy
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,346
Well, that was fast ...

Sure, if this was new information. I already stated as much a few weeks ago after having finished it on Give Me a Challenge and Give Me God of War. I enjoy a good narrative, and I enjoy RPGs as much as the next person, but the "RPG elements" in that game in particular were just annoying. They were also mostly set up as attempted roadblocks to fighting what was considered "difficult" enemies, because your "power level" had a huge amount of influence on how much damage you dealt and not only how much damage enemies could deal and take, but what abilities they actually had. This isn't just like in every other RPG either, because in most RPGs, your weapons influence how much damage you deal, not some arbitrary overall rating. Equipping even a yellow LUCK enchantment could have been all you needed to lower a comparative level from purple to yellow, which is IMO stupid. The narrative was fine, but it felt way too much like "Your Princess is in another castle".

I ended up beating the majority of level 6-7 (purple) enemies severely undergeared, and even almost beat the second most difficult Valkyrie at only level 3. Oh, but apparently that was "post game content", even though I destroyed her at level 5. You can handily beat all but one or two fights in the game without having top end gear, and then after you do that...there's no real point in even acquiring that gear. Shit like that, and the constant cycling through garbage enchantments just felt entirely out of place. I even have a friend who loves the series, but dislikes RPGs so much that he basically wouldn't touch any of those elements and had me select the gear for him.
 
Last edited:

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,513
I can see why people love it however I'm playing it for the first time and am not nearly as high on it as everyone else, which makes me sad. The story and cutscenes are definitely done beautifully, It doesn't feel that great to play imo and the setting, although expertly crafted, just isn't my cup of tea in general.

However, I was floored by the E3 showing of TLOUII and for whatever reason it looks so much better to me so I'm going to make myself finish this one so I can be fully hyped for that one. I can't believe how much that demo took me by surprise.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
Really?

Have you ever played Bioshock? Majora's Mask?

There are plenty of games that blend the two in more clever ways. Also TLOU's gameplay is boring af IMO, so it's not a good blend at all lol.. It's more like you're playing a movie, not a video game. It's not that I "don't get" one of these two aspects, I just think it's not very fun to play at all, and there are games that are way more fun to play while also blending with a great story in interesting ways.

I think you are in the extreme minority with that opinion and I think thats because you dont perceive the game the same way most people do. Call it "dont get" if you like.

Or what is your explanation for the discrepancy in the evaluation of the game? That millions of people including hundreds of reviewers are wrong about the game?
 

greenhadoken

Member
Oct 28, 2017
502
I'm jealous of everyone that loves this game, I wish I had the same experience while playing it. Hopefully the sequel delivers for me!
 
Oct 27, 2017
434
I can see why people love it however I'm playing it for the first time and am not nearly as high on it as everyone else, which makes me sad. The story and cutscenes are definitely done beautifully, It doesn't feel that great to play imo and the setting, although expertly crafted, just isn't my cup of tea in general.

I felt exactly this way my first playthrough. I played on easy as i was just trying to enjoy the story and not get too frustrated.

Came back a few years later to play on Survivor difficulty and it shot to the top of my favorite games. It's just a different animal on that difficulty (for me at least). Maybe you're already playing on a hard difficulty, but I offer that suggestion if you aren't already. The intensity, scaricity of supplies...having to juggle different ways of getting out of the situation....everything just got amplified for me
 

Wolfgunblood

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,748
The Land
The meat of the game is just going from arena to arena, where the best strategy is to just run past everything if possible. Puzzles are braindead as well. It's a comfortable cinematic game with a lot of money on the screen, but it isn't a great game.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,691
Other than the story, it was your standard 3rd person hide and seek cover shooter. I couldn't get past the goofiness of girl running circles around zombie things while being stealthy
If you want to see a standard 3rd person hide and seek cover shooter, look at games like Inversion or Quantum of Solace

The only I can see people seeing and playing Last of Us and concluding that it's just a generic cover shooter is if you only judge games by basic mechanics without any other context or anything else. It has cover, and you just shoot or stab people, so it's just another standard cover shooter
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
I am a big MGS fan. MGS games have this insane quality to them where moment to moment gameplay is fantastic and yet the story beats (not the entire story) elicit the kind of emotion other games dont even try to attempt. It has to do with how Kojima makes you care about the characters, and the situations he puts them in. I was 16 when i played MGS1 for the first time and Snake refusing to pull the trigger on that RPG to kill Grey Fox still kinda blew my mind back then. TLOU pretty much perfected this art of storytelling. There were so many horrifying scenes it was like watching game of thrones or breaking bad. The intro was brutal, Tess' death was emotional, Sam's death and his brother committing suicide were the biggest gut punch in the game, and then Ellie's struggle with David was just too much. By the time she hacked away at his face, i was shaking.

And then came the ending when Joel shows the player who he truly was. Brutally torturing people by shooting/stabbing first, and asking questions later, executing hostages and killing doctors and nurses just to find Ellie. And then executing a dying woman in cold blood. I have never seen anything like that in video games since. Especially since Kojima decided to phone it in for MGSV. Arkham Knight and Witcher 3 had a great story and God of War and Detroit had some incredible story moments but TLOU just earned those big moments so much better. when Sam's brother shoots himself and you see Joel flinch, you flinch. When you saw Doctors working on Ellie's unconcious body from outside the surgery room you went in and killed them all without realizing you had a choice. i didnt stop until the woman called me a monster, and then i shotgunned her anyway. but it wasnt until joel executed Marlene i realized what a monster he truly was.

The lie at the end and Ellie's reaction is perfect. Its probably the best ending to a video game ever simply because of how adult and bittersweet it was.

I played the game 3 times on the PS3. Then 3 more times on PS4. the gameplay is sublime. for decades we have been trying to make action games with shooting, and shooters with melee action and TLOU finally did it. it felt like playing a movie. not a video game. and thats the best compliment i can give it.
 

nycgamer4ever

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
861
Not a masterpiece. Maybe Sony/Naughty Dog's best game but better then Ocarina of time, Alttp, Super Mario world, morrowind, chrono trigger, FF8, or Torment? Um, no.

Literally every year on the internet flocks of gamers call a game the GOAT. Last year BOTW, this year God of War. Next year will be another "masterpiece". Its all hyperbolic.

TLOU is not a masterpiece. Its just good.

Why does the game have to be better than those games to be a masterpiece? What's the criteria? If we go by review scores it measures up to all of the games you mentioned and surpasses some. If we go by GOTY wins it measures up also. It's only an opinion but some are saying it's a masterpiece and some not which is fine. They are not saying it's the best game of all time. There can be more than one masterpiece.
 

Zaki2407

Member
May 6, 2018
1,583
So, bruce is back? Is he join Neil for TLOU2? If not, then maybe he,s preparing another Top Secret game at ND? There,s no way Sony WWS and ND let this man without any project right?
 

NightShift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,134
Australia
I'll be replaying it probably when Part 2 gets its release date. I'm interested to know if it holds up for me too since I know certain aspects have gotten tired or improved over the past few years. Especcially with how storytelling is done because I have got very critical of games lately that don't take advantage of the medium. The only time I remember it doing such a thing is at the very, very end.
 

Jawbreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,435
New York City
I'll also add that Left Behind is at the very top of the list in terms of DLC. It's every bit as amazing as the base game, even surpassing it in some aspects.
 
Last edited:

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,513
I felt exactly this way my first playthrough. I played on easy as i was just trying to enjoy the story and not get too frustrated.

Came back a few years later to play on Survivor difficulty and it shot to the top of my favorite games. It's just a different animal on that difficulty (for me at least). Maybe you're already playing on a hard difficulty, but I offer that suggestion if you aren't already. The intensity, scaricity of supplies...having to juggle different ways of getting out of the situation....everything just got amplified for me
Yeah, I'm playing on normal right now. Perhaps I'll try a harder difficulty after I finish that game!

I'll also add that Left Behind is at the very top of the list in terms of DLC content. It's every bit as amazing as the base game, even surpassing it in some aspects.
"Downloadable content content" :P
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,090
Yeah, the No Country feel happened quickly with me. It really has to do with the quiet moments of that film and how they are mirrored in the game. I read a lot about how people thought those passages translated to the game being "unfinished" or "boring", but those were some of my favorite parts of the game. They allowed introspection, but also felt tense because you knew something bad was lurking right around the next corner, and you weren't sure if anyone was going to make it out at the end alive. Again, much like the film.
 

monketron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,937
Games, like films, can become outdated technologically/mechanically, but that shouldn't detract from how they are viewed as masterpieces. Is the film 2001 any less amazing because it looks a bit dated? Same for any number of black/white films that fall into that category.