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grunkleFungus

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
171
NC, US
"Gaming's most controversial facial wash," these fuckheads. Gotta love how their statement just happens to gloss over the transphobic bullshit from devs in their Discord that actually set all of this off. The Ogay thing is sophomoric and embarrassing but this was never just about getting a label on a bottle changed.

I was at least happy to see 3DRealm's initial response (even if it was clearly them and not the devs), but yeah, all of this makes me really disappointed that I'm already beyond the refund window. This is some capitol-g Gamer bullshit that I have little desire to associate with lol
Wait a sec, it's supposed to be face wash? Have these men ever taken care of their skin? Most face wash isn't packaged like that. If you're going to make a brain dead joke at least look at actual packaging for once.

Who am I kidding, these guys use Irish Spring everywhere and wonder why they're breaking out and dry so often. Imagine ruining your skin because no homo.
 

Tempy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,333
Okay, since you asked for this, I figured that I might as well. In your five page post history you, my friend, have:

- referred to socialism as a fringe political movement (it's implemented successfully on some scale by Canada and most European countries and is mainstream in many places that aren't the US. This was your 2nd post)
- mocked Era's posting habits as being logical fallaces (This was your 13th post)
- complained about banning promotion such as Boogie (who has a history of promoting hate movements)
- talked about how wearing nazi symbols should not be a cause for violence
- complained about politics permeating the discussion on this forum (note that I'm posting these in order, so this is after you posted the above)
- posted typical not all cops rhetoric (in a topic where numerous cops are upset by an officer being held accountable for murder and refer to themselves doing similar things, and the only counterpoint is from a woman in the force who believes patriarchy within the force retains this culture)
- denied systemic racism in Hollywood casting
- decried the removal of slurs in Ion Fury as censorship

Individual posts might nott be too bad, but considering that I included about 7% of your entire posting history, I think it paints a picture. I've also skipped out at later posts in the same thread, like when you whined about how people are demonized for supporting THQ Nordic or Dragon Quest's transphobic, and I also skipped out on a bunch of your posts praising THQ Nordic, which I think are more notable considering this.

Thanks for doing this. People should report mothballs.
 

Deleted member 925

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,711
Okay, since you asked for this, I figured that I might as well. In your five page post history you, my friend, have:

- referred to socialism as a fringe political movement (it's implemented successfully on some scale by Canada and most European countries and is mainstream in many places that aren't the US. This was your 2nd post)
- mocked Era's posting habits as being logical fallaces (This was your 13th post)
- complained about banning promotion such as Boogie (who has a history of promoting hate movements)
- talked about how wearing nazi symbols should not be a cause for violence
- complained about politics permeating the discussion on this forum (note that I'm posting these in order, so this is after you posted the above)
- posted typical not all cops rhetoric (in a topic where numerous cops are upset by an officer being held accountable for murder and refer to themselves doing similar things, and the only counterpoint is from a woman in the force who believes patriarchy within the force retains this culture)
- denied systemic racism in Hollywood casting
- decried the removal of slurs in Ion Fury as censorship

Individual posts might nott be too bad, but considering that I included about 7% of your entire posting history, I think it paints a picture. I've also skipped out at later posts in the same thread, like when you whined about how people are demonized for supporting THQ Nordic or Dragon Quest's transphobic, and I also skipped out on a bunch of your posts praising THQ Nordic, which I think are more notable considering this.

Oh honey the tea is SCALDING
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,095
If this is on them acting without 3D Realms' approval, I feel sorry for the folks at 3D Realms. It's got to be like trying to control a toddler that keeps running around and opening up all of the cabinets, but instead of misplacing everything, they just put slurs on them.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,157
They made some obscene, politically unacceptable material and the removed it.
A creator making a thing and then choosing to modify that thing for whatever reason they feel necessary isn't suppression of material and therefore isn't censorship. They weren't being forced to do so, as evidenced by their ability to backpedal on doing it.

So no, it's not any textbook's definition of censorship.
 

Danzflor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,710
cen·sorship
/ˈsensərSHip/
Learn to pronounce
noun
  1. 1.
    the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security
This was exactly what happened here. They made some obscene, politically unacceptable material and the removed it. Or they were GOING to before bizarrely walking back on it. It's ok, you don't have to be afraid of the word censorship, it is a word with a definition that fits many many scenarios. It isn't always some "alt-right" dogwhistle or whatever has been stated in here.
But no one here was prohibiting or suppressing anything, people just wanted cooler heads to prevail and for the devs themselves eliminate offensive messaging.

Also, right there it says "politically unacceptable", so yeah.
 

Ionic

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,735
The difference in attitude towards putting the homophobic content back in on /r/games versus /r/pcgaming is impressive. I hate when the community really shows its ass.
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
Makes me sick...and sad. As a 50 year old gay man this stuff dosent effect me but as a kid it was very upsetting, its fucking 2019, why the fuck put shit like this in a game, what's the point.
 

Deleted member 7148

Oct 25, 2017
6,827
Man this game has become a big joke. All of the back and forth on this just makes the teams involved look horribly unprofessional and immature. As someone who was looking forward to checking this out, I think I'll pass no matter what they end up doing or saying in the future. I'm not supporting a dev team who can't handle themselves in a professional manner.
 

Delriach

Combat Designer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
931
Chicago
I'm sure it's been mentioned so far but the fact that this is framed as being outrage in relation to the "Ogay" item rather than the rest of the garbage that went down is kind of frustrating.

I don't think anyone in the original thread thought the Ogay texture was particularly notably bad in comparison to the rest of the rhetoric in the discord or in the secret room. But since it's the easy target to paint people as angry about nothing, that's what the argument gets framed around. Obnoxious.

And to think I almost bought the game after the initial apology.

Yeah, it's super frustrating how that's how they are trying to frame this. I just saw tons of tweets about that when people were asking what's up. It's incredibly disingenuous but I guess not surprising considering everything.
 
3DRealms: 'f*gbag' removed, 'Ogay' stays

Kafkaswaffle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
708
Not sure if this has been posted, but 3DRealms answered to Polygon:


However, the soap bottle will not be removed.
The use of the word "f*gbag" in an area that was inaccessible without hacking the game, and was added by one developer without approval from anyone else, was removed a few days ago. We once again apologize for this text as it does not reflect the values of 3D Realms or Voidpoint.
Jokes at the expense of marginalized communities will not be present in future games published by 3D Realms. However, a portion of our community made it loud and clear they felt removing 'Ogay' was censorship and should be protected by free speech. Voidpoint wanted to listen and we respected this decision.
 

Mothballs

Banned
Aug 17, 2019
91
Supression or prohibition requires outside authority.

Choosing to change your work because it's problematic is not the definition you just posted. At all.

Except it is....in this case they didn't choose to change it because it was problematic, they chose to change it due to outside forces putting pressure on them to change it. If no one said anything you can bet they would've been fine leaving it in there.
 

J_Atlas

Member
Apr 11, 2019
391
Except it is....in this case they didn't choose to change it because it was problematic, they chose to change it due to outside forces putting pressure on them to change it. If no one said anything you can bet they would've been fine leaving it in there.
Steve puts on an ugly shirt
I tell steve "Hey, you look terrible in that"
Steve changes his shirt

I have now censored steve, and his self expression via clothing choices.


In case it wasn't clear, I'm pointing out how absurd that comment is and conflating censorship with response to criticism is, beyond ridiculous or silly, its just dumb.
 
Last edited:

Mothballs

Banned
Aug 17, 2019
91
Makes me sick...and sad. As a 50 year old gay man this stuff dosent effect me but as a kid it was very upsetting, its fucking 2019, why the fuck put shit like this in a game, what's the point.

That's what is so baffling. There really was no reason to put this in at all. It's 2019, by now people should have an understanding of the current social climate and how something like a bottle of "Ogay" would be viewed. It appears they knowingly put it in, are now defending it and have felt the wrath. All that work on an awesome game and it's all overshadowed by unnecessary shit. What a stupid hill to die on.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,231
I'd urge people to report the store page, as that's the only way to get Valve to do anything about it.

that didn't work for removing a game by neonazis.

well, I guess it did temporarily. But valve then relisted it with a personal apology from Gabe.

Basically, Valve don't give a fuck about people. Just profits.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,095

I feel that this:

We once again apologize for this text as it does not reflect the values of [...] Voidpoint.

isn't supported by this:

However, a portion of our community made it loud and clear they felt removing 'Ogay' was censorship and should be protected by free speech. Voidpoint wanted to listen
 

plagiarize

It's not a loop. It's a spiral.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,575
Cape Cod, MA
Except it is....in this case they didn't choose to change it because it was problematic, they chose to change it due to outside forces putting pressure on them to change it. If no one said anything you can bet they would've been fine leaving it in there.
Or, hypothetically, they didn't mean to offend anyone and so they were going to change it, because it wasn't their intent to offend.

That wouldn't be censorship.
 

JaxiPup

Member
Dec 23, 2017
679
Massachusetts
Except it is....in this case they didn't choose to change it because it was problematic, they chose to change it due to outside forces putting pressure on them to change it. If no one said anything you can bet they would've been fine leaving it in there.
Ah, so saying 'I don't want to purchase this game for its problematic inclusions' is tantamount to forcing the devs to alter it? Voting with our wallets is forced censorship?
 

Pyccko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,871
lol, these motherfuckers. no balls at all.

like seriously holy shit these dudes are the biggest cowards in the gaming industry
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,575
Except it is....in this case they didn't choose to change it because it was problematic, they chose to change it due to The ide forces putting pressure on them to change it. If no one said anything you can bet they would've been fine leaving it in there.

No one pressured them to change anything. The focus was on transphobic views and posts on discord and ogay bottles was just a peripheral icing on a very bad cake. It's so juvenile that as a gay man who was a teenager in the late 90s and early 2000s, I just feel second hand embarrassment for the devs and gamers who thought it was funny. They were the ones who said they would change it and then flip flop. Ironically by your definition the alt right mops actually pressured them into "censorship" because they now cannot remove the bottles as intended and is censoring their own apology.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,244
Except it is....in this case they didn't choose to change it because it was problematic, they chose to change it due to outside forces putting pressure on them to change it. If no one said anything you can bet they would've been fine leaving it in there.

If you're using this definition, then literally any criticism leads to censorship, and the grand ideal of so many "free speech advocates", the marketplace of ideas, is actually just one giant censorship mechanism.

It's almost as if you've chosen a definition of censorship so wide that everything is censorship.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,596
tenor.png


Christ.

Creature in the Well is out on thursday, spend your money on that.

This is some juvenile horseshit.
 

Danzflor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,710
Except it is....in this case they didn't choose to change it because it was problematic, they chose to change it due to outside forces putting pressure on them to change it. If no one said anything you can bet they would've been fine leaving it in there.
The pressure was had but no one threatens to arrest them or harass them or point a gun on their heads. Is not that hard to get.
That's what is so baffling. There really was no reason to put this in at all. It's 2019, by now people should have an understanding of the current social climate and how something like a bottle of "Ogay" would be viewed. It appears they knowingly put it in, are now defending it and have felt the wrath. All that work on an awesome game and it's all overshadowed by unnecessary shit. What a stupid hill to die on.
So you are defending the devs because they are getting "censored" but at the same time you agree that this stuff shouldn't have been in the game from the beginning? I'm getting this right?
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,259
Rochester, New York
That has to be one of dumbest PR responses I've seen in awhile.

"We don't tolerate jokes at the expense of marginalized communities"

"But also a lot of people whined, so we're still keeping the one joke"

They care about marginalized groups but not enough to remove a blurry low res sprite because stupid people review bombed them on Steam.
 

Ashlette

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,254
cen·sorship
/ˈsensərSHip/
Learn to pronounce
noun
  1. 1.
    the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security
This was exactly what happened here. They made some obscene, politically unacceptable material and the removed it. Or they were GOING to before bizarrely walking back on it. It's ok, you don't have to be afraid of the word censorship, it is a word with a definition that fits many many scenarios. It isn't always some "alt-right" dogwhistle or whatever has been stated in here.

You aren't looking at the word from the view of an "alt-right" idiot.

They have corrupted the word so that it applies only to the removal of hateful ideas they like. They don't care about the removal of pro-LGBT messages in games, movies, etc.

Unlike what you said, they don't see it as a neutral action, i.e. it has good and bad applications. They treat it only as a boogeyman that threatens their corrupted version of freedom of expression, e.g. wearing blackface, saying the f-slur, etc without facing potential consequences.

When they cry censorship, they are saying "my bigoted ideas are under attack!", not "ideas are under attack!".

They aren't good with words, and they aren't worth your trust.

Why are you guys still replying to the troll?

I don't care what trolls think, I only reply to them to educate others.
 
Last edited:

lowmelody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,101
Except it is....in this case they didn't choose to change it because it was problematic, they chose to change it due to outside forces putting pressure on them to change it. If no one said anything you can bet they would've been fine leaving it in there.

If I say I will not give money to a game with slurs in it, implying that I would do so with said slurs were not present. Is that censorship? Now imagine many other people saying the same thing, is it now?

So what, you can refuse to purchase something only if you never state the reason why? Or maybe It's ok to personally boycott until many people simultaneously agree then it's censorship?
 

kpaadet

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,741
3DRealms: We thought Fagbag was homophobic and unacceptable and therefore chose to censor it. Ogay however is just plain funny and we believe in free speech.
 

Mothballs

Banned
Aug 17, 2019
91
Ah, so saying 'I don't want to purchase this game for its problematic inclusions' is tantamount to forcing the devs to alter it? Voting with our wallets is forced censorship?

Im saying in their eyes that's how they appear to be viewing it. Hence the ridiculous walking back of their original decision to change the offensive content.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,893
Okay, since you asked for this, I figured that I might as well. In your five page post history you, my friend, have:

- referred to socialism as a fringe political movement (it's implemented successfully on some scale by Canada and most European countries and is mainstream in many places that aren't the US. This was your 2nd post)
- mocked Era's posting habits as being logical fallaces (This was your 13th post)
- complained about banning promotion such as Boogie (who has a history of promoting hate movements)
- talked about how wearing nazi symbols should not be a cause for violence
- complained about politics permeating the discussion on this forum (note that I'm posting these in order, so this is after you posted the above)
- posted typical not all cops rhetoric (in a topic where numerous cops are upset by an officer being held accountable for murder and refer to themselves doing similar things, and the only counterpoint is from a woman in the force who believes patriarchy within the force retains this culture)
- denied systemic racism in Hollywood casting
- decried the removal of slurs in Ion Fury as censorship

Individual posts might nott be too bad, but considering that I included about 7% of your entire posting history, I think it paints a picture. I've also skipped out at later posts in the same thread, like when you whined about how people are demonized for supporting THQ Nordic or Dragon Quest's transphobic, and I also skipped out on a bunch of your posts praising THQ Nordic, which I think are more notable considering this.

Holy shit... He literally asked for it...

Well, there you go.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,259
Rochester, New York
Except it is....in this case they didn't choose to change it because it was problematic, they chose to change it due to outside forces putting pressure on them to change it. If no one said anything you can bet they would've been fine leaving it in there.
Okay, but a company making a decision to remove something based on feedback is not censorship. Nobody forced them to do anything.
 

Neuromancer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,765
Baltimore
Cowards. Instead of doing what they know is the right thing and taking some punches they are surrendering to a hateful mob.

I loved 90's shooters like Duke Nukem, Shadow Warrior and Blood, but casual homophobia was never the reason why. Honestly I don't know why this stuff was ever in the game to begin with.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,503
Same response I gave to the last dude claiming censorship. When you want to sell consumers a product, them setting boundaries is not censorship. Fuck out of here peddling that.
 

JaxiPup

Member
Dec 23, 2017
679
Massachusetts
Im saying in their eyes that's how they appear to be viewing it. Hence the ridiculous walking back of their original decision to change the offensive content.
So what then? It sounds like your solution is "shut up so the devs can be hateful in peace" tbh.

Iunno if you've followed from the start either, but before this """"censorship fiasco"""", voidpoint was out here calling me mentally ill and saying GRS is mutilation. So I'm not really inclined to keep quiet about something I feel very strongly about criticizing
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,571
Didn't someone post in the last thread that Terminx was mad at a fellow developer for pushing the company to apologize, to the point of feeling the apology had "ruined the company"?

Was that ever verified? It would fit rather well with the tone of the new statement.

Also, I agree with whoever said that the bottle was the least of the game's issues. The slur was worse, and the transphobia and other nonsense in the game's Discord was even worse than that. It sucks, though, to see gaming's most toxic elements pandered to, such that an entire show has to be made of refusing to "censor" a sprite with a juvenile-ass gay joke. It's clear the people review bombing and whatnot had allies in Voidpoint/3D Realms.