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Feb 19, 2018
1,654
It is possible but I just can't see fromsoft game developed as a gaas following recent ubi trends. Scares the shit outta me since fromsoft is my favourite dev.
To be fair, Ubisoft does have some history publishing niche Japanese games, so there is some precedent. For example they published Fatal Frame/Project Zero 2 (a niche Japanese survival-horror game itself, and one of the very best survival-horror games at that) in Europe back in 2005. They are also not adverse to bankrolling small, highly creative games such as Valiant Hearts or Child of Light either. Still consider it a long shot though, especially when there are smaller Western pubs working with more niche stuff/lots of creative freedom for the devs, such as Paradox or Deep Silver/Nordic. From Software are used to working with low budgets, so it's not like they need a regular AAA budget sized wad of cash (or much advertising $$$, word of mouth alone will guarantee a serious amount of sales if they do it right). Would say Bethesda is still much liklier than Ubisoft considering Evil Within 2 was a thing and released only last year, so the people who greenlit that would still have been in charge at the time it must have happened for Shadows Die Twice.
 
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MajulaDream

Member
Oct 25, 2017
755
Warner also a possibility.
Kadokawa had a partnership with Warner on Lollipop Chainsaw.

Hmm interesting.


To be fair, Ubisoft does have some history publishing niche Japanese games, so there is some precedent. For example they published Fatal Frame/Project Zero 2 (a niche Japanese survival-horror game itself, and one of the very best survival-horror games at that) in Europe back in 2005. Still consider it a long shot though, especially when there are smaller Western pubs working with more niche stuff/lots of creative freedom for the devs, such as Paradox or Deep Silver/Nordic. From Software are used to working with low budgets, so it's not like they need a regular AAA budget sized wad of cash.

There are lots of western publishers, it's just that we've been told to expect one of the BIG ones.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,987
Do we know when the publisher will be revealed? Will it be at E3? If so, what day? (Sorry, I don't particularly care about E3 until it's happening, so a bit clueless right now).
 

BLLYjoe25

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,969
Never played Kuon but after playing Soulsborne games I'll play anything From put out. Actually watching a couple videos of Kuon I am up for to be Kuon.
 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,819
The greatest From Software horror game for me is clicking threads and seeing people call their games Soulsborne instead of Souls. Bloodborne is a souls game.
 
Dec 6, 2017
11,050
US
I've said this before in the past, so I'll just say what I've heard and said in the past (though I've heard more recent things I won't delve fully into), keep in mind I can't validate if 100% of this is true but it's what I've heard from a few sources now independently. The game is being published by a big Western Studio, and NOT Bethesda like many people seem to think. The game will have very strong horror themes and an open world, it is a spiritual successor of sorts to Kuon (though I've also since heard it has Tenchu+Kuon inspiration, FROM is pulling from their past Japanese-themed games a bit), but it will also have some Souls-esque elements though it won't PLAY like a Souls game. That's all I should say for now.

giphy.webp


Holy god...
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,987
The greatest From Software horror game for me is clicking threads and seeing people call their games Soulsborne instead of Souls. Bloodborne is a souls game.

Souls in genre, but not name. It's so that people can differentiate between Demons/Dark and Bloodborne, or talk about all of them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,010
Canada
I got Kuon in great condition for $3, one of the best steals of my life. I was REALLY fortunate I decided to finish my survival-horror PS1 & PS2 collection in 2011, since a lot of horror games began to sky rocket in price starting in 2012-2013. Mixture of some of these games becoming cult classics, no re-releases or reprints, and still being talked about today. Rule of Rose and Haunting Ground have experienced a similar fate, Kuon sky-rocketed due to Shadows Die Twice exposure to Kuon though.
Damn, that's a nice pick up. It's also interesting to see that Kuon has gone up just due to speculation and exposure though.

And yeah, I started focusing on picking up horror stuff up around 2014 which has been somewhat rough, definitely wish I started earlier. Although even in that short period a lot of that stuff has spiked further.
 

Magyscar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
846
Holy shit, this would be amazing. I absolutely love Kuon.

I think I'll switch back to the avatar I used at the old place...
 
Dec 6, 2017
11,050
US
Honestly, when people say survival horror these days I don't even know what they mean since it varies so much. RE started that subgenre tag but the series itself evolved so much over the years. RE2 isn't even quite the same as RE1 and is much more of an action game. Same with RE4/5/6 vs RE7, etc. Based on the stuff I heard this is going to be more action in terms of gameplay, and more horror in terms of atmosphere/setting. But it's not going to be a game where you are some defenseless person hiding/surviving instead of fucking shit up.

The bolded basically perfected Dusk's posts. If you guys' predictions are anything to go by, this'll be the game I was fantasizing about From making post-Souls.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,831
Ah, well that doesn't really interest me in the least but I will definitely check it out in support.
For the record, whatever this project is doesn't mean it'd play like the original Kuon or even close to it. Kuon was done by 2003-2004 FROM, which was still a small company with little budget (Kuon didn't even have lip animations back then, characters talked without moving their mouths). This is 2018 FROM, which has money, reputation, and without saying too much this project isn't Kuon really... Well, I digress. Just tune in a few days to E3 and see what you think.
 

Eightandh

Member
Dec 29, 2017
163
For the record, whatever this project is doesn't mean it'd play like the original Kuon or even close to it. Kuon was done by 2003-2004 FROM, which was still a small company with little budget (Kuon didn't even have lip animations back then, characters talked without moving their mouths). This is 2018 FROM, which has money, reputation, and without saying too much this project isn't Kuon really... Well, I digress. Just tune in a few days to E3 and see what you think.
Do characters in DS3 have lip animations?
 

Humam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
731
For the record, whatever this project is doesn't mean it'd play like the original Kuon or even close to it. Kuon was done by 2003-2004 FROM, which was still a small company with little budget (Kuon didn't even have lip animations back then, characters talked without moving their mouths). This is 2018 FROM, which has money, reputation, and without saying too much this project isn't Kuon really... Well, I digress. Just tune in a few days to E3 and see what you think.
Can you tell how many days exactly ? Please? lol
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,987
For all intents and purposes all 3 franchises fall under the same classification. The bourne addition only exists to appease the people that pretend Bloodborne is different only because it doesn't litterally have souls in the title.

It's also quite different to play compared to the Souls games, so, y'know, it not having Souls in the title isn't the only reason to differentiate it. To elaborate on that, tactics that get you killed in Souls are recommended in Borne, and the whole "sword-and-board" build literally doesn't exist in Borne.

But whatevs, this is very off-topic now, so. *shrugs* :)
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,571
Singapore
It's also quite different to play compared to the Souls games, so, y'know, it not having Souls in the title isn't the only reason to differentiate it. To elaborate on that, tactics that get you killed in Souls are recommended in Borne, and the whole "sword-and-board" build literally doesn't exist in Borne.
Dark Souls has a very different approach to world design compared to Demon's Souls. The progression and level design is fundamentally different if we want to compare specific things in a detailed way. In the same way Bloodborne's combat is a different approach, to both Demon's and Dark, but the design of the world and progression flow takes after Dark very clearly. In all the mentioned games, there is a specific gameplay loop that doesn't change much though, and those are the things that define how people identify the modern From Software action RPG style. Regardless of setting, regardless of specifics of combat flow, regardless of specifics of world flow. Weighty-feeling weapons and movement, difficult encounters that balance risk/reward, a resource recovery system that encourages players to be careful while applying trial and error.
 

Deleted member 2229

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
It's also quite different to play compared to the Souls games, so, y'know, it not having Souls in the title isn't the only reason to differentiate it. To elaborate on that, tactics that get you killed in Souls are recommended in Borne, and the whole "sword-and-board" build literally doesn't exist in Borne.

But whatevs, this is very off-topic now, so. *shrugs* :)
This is a miniscule difference. The games are identical and all very much siblings. Two quite different games to play are Assassins Creed and Dynasty Warriors. Im not saying Bloodborne is a carbon copy but lets not exaggerate how different these games actually are.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,987
Dark Souls has a very different approach to world design compared to Demon's Souls. The progression and level design is fundamentally different if we want to compare specific things in a detailed way. In the same way Bloodborne's combat is a different approach, to both Demon's and Dark, but the design of the world and progression flow takes after Dark very clearly. In all the mentioned games, there is a specific gameplay loop that doesn't change much though, and those are the things that define how people identify the modern From Software action RPG style. Regardless of setting, regardless of specifics of combat flow, regardless of specifics of world flow. Weighty-feeling weapons and movement, difficult encounters that balance risk/reward, a resource recovery system that encourages players to be careful while applying trial and error.

Mmmm, that's fair, and I must admit I've only briefly touched upon Demons, so with further play I'd perhaps be arguing an opposite point to my previous ones. Then again...

This is a miniscule difference. The games are identical and all very much siblings. Two quite different games to play are Assassins Creed and Dynasty Warriors. Im not saying Bloodborne is a carbon copy but lets not exaggerate how different these games actually are.

I think maybe - looking at Both Sides(tm) - a better division would be Dark 1 (and perhaps Demons?) on the one side, and Dark 2 and 3 and Bloodborne on the other. The similarities in Dark 3 and Bloodborne are obvious, but going from Dark 3 to 1 is way different. I do think that style-of-play between Bloodborne and Dark 1 are not "miniscule differences" - it took me a good 3 or 4 hours to switch from DS 1: Remastered "mindset" to Bloodborne "mindset" when I started playing BB a few days ago, which I think says something. But I also think that it's possibly a petty argument to make when you look at the larger similarities between the games. :)
 

Deleted member 2229

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
Mmmm, that's fair, and I must admit I've only briefly touched upon Demons, so with further play I'd perhaps be arguing an opposite point to my previous ones. Then again...



I think maybe - looking at Both Sides(tm) - a better division would be Dark 1 (and perhaps Demons?) on the one side, and Dark 2 and 3 and Bloodborne on the other. The similarities in Dark 3 and Bloodborne are obvious, but going from Dark 3 to 1 is way different. I do think that style-of-play between Bloodborne and Dark 1 are not "miniscule differences" - it took me a good 3 or 4 hours to switch from DS 1: Remastered "mindset" to Bloodborne "mindset" when I started playing BB a few days ago, which I think says something. But I also think that it's possibly a petty argument to make when you look at the larger similarities between the games. :)

I think you're missing the point entirely. No one is arguing that the games don't have their differences, nor is anyone saying the games are the same. I'm saying that the games aren't different enough to warrant such a division in classification. Because in the grand scheme of things, they're not. Mindset is irrelevant. The gameplay loop is identical across all games and the reason they can all be classified under one umbrella, because they're all incredibly similar. Bloodborne plays similarly to Dark Souls which plays similarly to demon's souls, not the same but similar. You have you're light and heavy melee combat buttons, a dodge, a central healing item, traversing the world in third person with the ability to level up your character and switch out weapons and armor as you please regardless of class with the addition of online functionality allowing players to invade or be invaded by other players when online. Each game has its own take or spin on this formula but this is the core of each "souls" game. Bloodborne doesn't deviate from that formula enough to be considered a different entity. This is pretty much what any "souls" game can be distilled down to. They don't play "Quite differently". They play quite similarly with miniscule differences. Dark Souls gives you the option of a shield to defend yourself, Bloodborne gives you the option of a gun, Dark Souls has armor and estus, Bloodborne has cloth and farmable blood vials. Dark Souls' dodge is a roll, Bloodborne's is a sidestep. Miniscule differences that change the way each game plays, but only ever so slightly.
 

Ahasverus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,599
Colombia
So spiritual successor to Kuon.

Dusk Golem do we expect another "hardcore only" game or is this game a bit broader in public? I love horror and I LOVE Japanese horror but From difficulty is just not for me.
 

ReginaldXIV

It's Pronounced "Aerith"
Member
Nov 4, 2017
7,930
Minnesota
Unless there's something way down his timeline or he has mentioned he knows what FROM is showing, how is a singular gif of an American Horror Story promo have any relation to FROM Software or E3 or even video games?

He just announced the TGA date prior to that gif so I would assume that means its creeping up on us fast. I didn't go through the thread so correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Deleted member 2229

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
They are difficult that you're accustomed to it or like that design is OK, but they are difficult as all fuck.
I would say theyre not particularly more difficult than your average ARPG they just require a certain mindset that goes against what other games teach you. Its largely about patience and trial and error than being particularly difficult. You don't lose progress when you die, there are an abundance of checkpoints that you can return to frequently, you're given plenty of tools to dispatch enemies and it seldom feels unfair. It just requires focus and patience while also realizing its not the end of the world if you die. You can just go pick up your currency and keep at it and for the most part thats the only thing you lose upon death.
 

Talus

Banned
Dec 9, 2017
1,386
I feel like the game is going to be like this:

-new take on the "souls" formula
-it'll LOOK like a "souls" style game from a general perspective
-the setting will be in the style of Kuon
-it will take on a more horror based theme without being overly jump-scary
-it will be a completely new story.. not a spiritual successor to anything

It's fun to speculate lol.. We're so close now!
 

Ahasverus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,599
Colombia
I would say theyre not particularly more difficult than your average ARPG they just require a certain mindset that goes against what other games teach you. Its largely about patience and trial and error than being particularly difficult.
Look if something involves dying a lot it's difficult The checkpoint placement is meant to punish, that's difficulty. There room for error is super low, that's difficulty. The controls, lore and item uses are obscure and not explained that's difficulty.

That people overcome those challenges and feel regarding to them or whatever is great, but let's call the things by their name.
 

Mezoly

Jimbo Replacement
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,404
All the new details sounds good to me except the open world part. I like open world games but I hope going open world doesn't take away from From usually incredible level design.
 

Deleted member 2229

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
Look if something involves dying a lot it's difficult The checkpoint placement is meant to punish, that's difficulty. There room for error is super low, that's difficulty. The controls, lore and item uses are obscure and not exolai
I think thats a pretty obtuse way of looking at it. Yes, you die a lot but what are you actually losing upon death? You get sent back to the nearest checkpoint (like any other game) and have to go pick up your currency. Thats it. There's also plenty of room for error, that's why youre given so many healing items, so you can make mistakes. There's a degree of skill involved, as there is with any game and that ceiling can be high, but the barrier of entry isn't as high as people would make it out to be. You don't need perfect, consistent timing and twitch reflexes to be able to complete any of these games. Only an understanding of the games systems, enemies and locations, I don't think thats unfair or too much to ask of the player. It just sounds like youre letting your impatience get the best of you and not seeing the forest through the trees. Yes youll die a lot, but thats forgiven by the fact that death itself isn't very punishing.
 

Ahasverus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,599
Colombia
Yes youll die a lot, but thats forgiven by the fact that death itself isn't very punishing.
Having to go halfway through the stage to reach a boss after dying is difficult and a big punishment, reminiscing of the old NES Castlevania games.

I've literally played all souls games sans DS3 and I've tried again and again with everyone of them. Specially Bloodborne. They're hard, really hard. Once you memorize them I suppose they're not but that applies to NES Silver Surfer too.

I suppose we're never getting past this conversation so yeah, I'll wait and see what this game is about. I'm definitely 100% interested but will only cave in if it's a more accesible game.
 

Mezoly

Jimbo Replacement
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,404
I think thats a pretty obtuse way of looking at it. Yes, you die a lot but what are you actually losing upon death? You get sent back to the nearest checkpoint (like any other game) and have to go pick up your currency. Thats it. There's also plenty of room for error, that's why youre given so many healing items, so you can make mistakes. There's a degree of skill involved, as there is with any game and that ceiling can be high, but the barrier of entry isn't as high as people would make it out to be. You don't need perfect, consistent timing and twitch reflexes to be able to complete any of these games. Only an understanding of the games systems, enemies and locations, I don't think thats unfair or too much to ask of the player. It just sounds like youre letting your impatience get the best of you and not seeing the forest through the trees. Yes youll die a lot, but thats forgiven by the fact that death itself isn't very punishing.

While I think the difficulty of those games are way overstated because they are not the hardest skill wise, I do think they are much more punishing compared to most contemporary AAA games. The checkpoints take you further than most games, enemies respawn after death, there are no boss phases checkpoints, no attack animation cancellation, there is no compass or map to help navigation, there is no pause menu, you have one chance to get back your money/xp after death. Sure with patience and after an initial difficulty hump, the games become more manageable that still is a tough hill to climb.