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BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,035
CT
Your argument that it's just a DBZ problem literally requires that it was impossible for Arc Sys to add the three named characters. Is that your contention?

I'm arguing when there are dozens of popular db/z/gt/super characters to add, I only expect one female per season, we got videl this season. Many of those characters are more popular and more relevant to the people spending money on dragon ball, not just fighterz but the ip as a whole.
 

Waffle

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,849
yes i agree that things could be known well in advance by people that work on these things, which is why having brolys in back to back seasons was kind of a dumb move and why i don't really buy turnaround time needing to be as significant

look i'm sorry to have offended one of nappa's three fans but he barely exists as a character, this is not a controversial statement
This has nothing to do if I like Nappa or think he's cool, but pointing out that he was a bigger deal in a story arc in the series, than you say. You don't have to be immature about your arguments because you don't like something.
 

Sacul64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,793
People that keep talking about having characters use guns realize that even dragon Ball Goku was bullet proof?



This is literally your base Goku. Other dragon Ball games fill out the roster where characters are just copy pasted with generic moves that's why fighters Z was such a big deal. Bad representation of women in db is a problem caused by the manga/anime not the game. Kale and Caulifla (they have names not just FEMALE sayins) a victims of being late edditions to the series as the game was on its way out. We got jiren and likely 17 solo due to thier importance to the top ending. If they are missing from a sequel game that would be more concerning to me. Also 6 Gokus, is nothing considering we normally get that many along with Gohan, Vegeta, krilen, frezza cell and Buu having multiple forms.

Also having read the first page what happened to era not referring to women as "female's" I've been actively changing my vocabulary to try and avoid that did people stop caring about that or am I misunderstanding something?
 

TheCthultist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,457
New York
Either of them or their fusion are on top of my list of character's I want to see in Fighterz. I haven't bought any of the FighterZ DLC but I'll actually buy all of it if those 2 (3?) are introduced. I'm sure they'd tied together as assists though because fuck Arc Sys. But all 3 of them have a large number of moves alone in the show that are all equally awesome, ignoring their fusion.

Seriously, give me these 2(or 3). They damn earned their place to take up 3 spaces of the roster.
Likewise, and likewise again. I have yet to spend money on any of the dlc (I play basically every day and have been using one team since the beta and never saw a need to buy a bunch of characters I have no interest in) and with the exception of DBS Broly I doubt I'm going to be buying any until one of them shows up. Ideally I'd love to see Kale, Caulifla, and Kefla all be separate characters, just doubling the number of female characters in the game through that alone... but I'm not getting my hopes up in the slightest.

But just think, they could straight up frame it as part of a Universe 6 themed dlc with Champa, the saiyans, and Frost to join Hit. I'd buy that in a heartbeat.
 

shem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,955
Because Yamcha actually has a varied moveset that can be pulled from the manga/anime. 18 and Videl have far less to work with in that department.

What a silly argument this is. They're a fighting game company. They invent move sets for characters. They do so for the one new female character they do add as well as filling in gaps of a number of characters we only saw fight a few times.

Also 18 fights a lot in super.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
I'm arguing when there are dozens of popular db/z/gt/super characters to add, I only expect one female per season, we got videl this season. Many of those characters are more popular and more relevant to the people spending money on dragon ball, not just fighterz but the ip as a whole.

Caulifla and Kale are two of the more significant characters in Dragon Ball Super. Characters who we actually follow in Super, as opposed to Jiren who's probably the worst antagonist in Dragon Ball history.

And frankly, they belonged in the base game, not as DLC. That ASW didn't put them in in the first place is a problem in and of itself. It's like not putting Black Panther in MvCI at launch.
 

Moebius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,420
I kind of wish 18 had her own full moveset but it's also kind of cool that 17 comes in to help. It makes her character unique.
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,554
Videl maybe, but that shit definitely does not fly with 18.
Yes it does. She only has two fights in the main series. One where she beats down Vegeta and her fight against Goten/Trunks, neither of which really displayed her having a whole lot of unique techniques on her own. There's a reason they decided to mostly pull from the History of Trunks with her.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,717
Houston, TX
Caulifla and Kale are two of the more significant characters in Dragon Ball Super. Characters who we actually follow in Super, as opposed to Jiren who's probably the worst antagonist in Dragon Ball history.

And frankly, they belonged in the base game, not as DLC. That ASW didn't put them in in the first place is a problem in and of itself. It's like not putting Black Panther in MvCI at launch.
To be fair, we didn't even get 17 until the tail-end of Season 1. It's clear that their prior knowledge was limited to the DBS Future Trunks Saga for the base roster. That's not to defend Season 2, but I can understand how the base roster turned out the way it did. For reference, I doubt that 17 would have been in 18's moveset if ASW knew as far ahead as to know about Caulifla & Kale.

With that said, I'd imagine that ASW would go straight for Kefla come DBFZ2 instead of Caulifla & Kale individually.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
19,127
Yes it does. She only has two fights in the main series. One where she beats down Vegeta and her fight against Goten/Trunks, neither of which really displayed her having a whole lot of unique techniques on her own. There's a reason they decided to mostly pull from the History of Trunks with her.

Its a game with filler characters so that argument don't cut it. 3 full fights is more than enough for a fighting game character. Especially they'd have super stuff to pull from seeing as she fought in that as well.

You really stretching to make this argument not sound like bullshit.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,330
Caulifla and Kale are two of the more significant characters in Dragon Ball Super. Characters who we actually follow in Super, as opposed to Jiren who's probably the worst antagonist in Dragon Ball history.

And frankly, they belonged in the base game, not as DLC. That ASW didn't put them in in the first place is a problem in and of itself. It's like not putting Black Panther in MvCI at launch.

This make no sense Jiren is the major bad guy for that arc which is why he is in like Hit , Goku Black, etc etc .
Also he has rather popular both online and in user stats .
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
This has nothing to do if I like Nappa or think he's cool, but pointing out that he was a bigger deal in a story arc in the series, than you say. You don't have to be immature about your arguments because you don't like something.
i'm not even trying to argue the merits of nappa, he's just a low bar that makes popularity arguments something i don't buy for a variety of characters. he is not significant in the grand scheme of things, this is ok. he served his purpose in handling the z-jobbers and never mattered ever again.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,388
Caulifla and Kale are two of the more significant characters in Dragon Ball Super. Characters who we actually follow in Super, as opposed to Jiren who's probably the worst antagonist in Dragon Ball history.

And frankly, they belonged in the base game, not as DLC. That ASW didn't put them in in the first place is a problem in and of itself. It's like not putting Black Panther in MvCI at launch.

FighterZ base game had literally nothing past the Goku Black arc... the production cycles just didn't line up. The game would have to be finalized, bug tested, and gone gold while the Tournament Of Power was airing.

Your opinion on Jiren doesn't change the fact that he's the most significant antagonist in the Tournament Of Power arc. You can find me on the first page saying Kefla should have made it (being arguably the second most significant antagonist), but there's no world where Kale and Caulifla get in by themselves if Goten and kid Trunks don't.
 

TheCthultist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,457
New York
Also 18 fights a lot in super.
The thing is, she already had enough of a moveset back in DBZ. With that combined with what she got in DBS, that "not enough moves" argument just gets more and more ridiculous.

18 and 17 being a single character made a lot of sense in vanilla DBFZ, back when 17 wasn't his own character. Now that he is, it certainly makes 18 using him as a striker way look way worse in hindsight; and Videl needing Gohan as one definitely adds to that. It's kind of a tough situation with 18, given that you can't just get rid of the original, but I'd be all for he getting a solo character as dlc just like 17 did.
 
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OP
Fj0823

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,707
Costa Rica
People that keep talking about having characters use guns realize that even dragon Ball Goku was bullet proof?



This is literally your base Goku. Other dragon Ball games fill out the roster where characters are just copy pasted with generic moves that's why fighters Z was such a big deal. Bad representation of women in db is a problem caused by the manga/anime not the game. Kale and Caulifla (they have names not just FEMALE sayins) a victims of being late edditions to the series as the game was on its way out. We got jiren and likely 17 solo due to thier importance to the top ending. If they are missing from a sequel game that would be more concerning to me. Also 6 Gokus, is nothing considering we normally get that many along with Gohan, Vegeta, krilen, frezza cell and Buu having multiple forms.

Also having read the first page what happened to era not referring to women as "female's" I've been actively changing my vocabulary to try and avoid that did people stop caring about that or am I misunderstanding something?


Dragon Ball Super explains that even Goku can get hit by bullets when his guard is down. Same for Krillin



So if they're not blocking, their Guard is down. Done.
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,554
What a silly argument this is. They're a fighting game company. They invent move sets for characters. They do so for the one new female character they do add as well as filling in gaps of a number of characters we only saw fight a few times.

Also 18 fights a lot in super.
They clearly put a priority on trying to remain close to the source martial which is why people did so many side by side comparisons between the game and the manga/anime. It's the whole reason this is even an issue in the first place and inventing brand new moves would have pretty clearly gone against what they were doing with this game.

Also, super hadn't even finish airing when this game was finished.
 
Jul 24, 2018
10,362
If they are going to add clones, then at the very least add Android 18 in her Tournament of Power get up, she was pretty bad ass there.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,717
Houston, TX
The thing is, she already had enough of a moveset back in DBZ. With that combined with what she got in DBS, that "not enough moves" argument just gets more and more ridiculous.

18 and 17 being a single character made a lot of sense in vanilla DBFZ, back when 17 wasn't his own character. Now that he is, it certainly makes 18 using him as a striker way look way worse in hindsight; and Videl needing Gohan as one definitely adds to that. It's kind of a tough situation with 18, given that you can't just get rid of the original, but I'd be all for he getting a solo character as dlc just like 17 did.
They could just retool 18 to fight on her own in DBFZ2.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
19,019
Caulifla and Kale are two of the more significant characters in Dragon Ball Super. Characters who we actually follow in Super, as opposed to Jiren who's probably the worst antagonist in Dragon Ball history.

And frankly, they belonged in the base game, not as DLC. That ASW didn't put them in in the first place is a problem in and of itself. It's like not putting Black Panther in MvCI at launch.
The cutoff point for the base game was the Goku Black arc, and since ArcSys only had one slot in Season 2 for a ToP character, it literally HAD to be Jiren. Like it or not, their exclusion only makes sense considering the circumstances.
 

shem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,955
Also, super hadn't even finish airing when this game was finished.

They somehow managed to model some moves for him, we've only seen him fight like once.

Can't imagine how they managed it. And those moves were like right at the end of super. Crazy how they managed such a feat.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,464
I'm mad Kefla isnt in nor Caulifla with Kale assist.
I'm glad Ribrianne isnt in. It's the worst design Dragon Ball ever had. Hands down.
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,554
Its a game with filler characters so that argument don't cut it. 3 full fights is more than enough for a fighting game character. Especially they'd have super stuff to pull from seeing as she fought in that as well.

You really stretching to make this argument not sound like bullshit.
Broly actually had two whole movies devoted to him (three if you want Bio Broly). It's not remotely the same deal with him that it is with 18 and Videl. Also those full fights involving 18 were mostly punches, kicks and generic Ki blasts. Last I checked, you need more then that for a moveset.

Again, Super hadn't even finished airing with this game was done.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
People that keep talking about having characters use guns realize that even dragon Ball Goku was bullet proof?



This is literally your base Goku. Other dragon Ball games fill out the roster where characters are just copy pasted with generic moves that's why fighters Z was such a big deal. Bad representation of women in db is a problem caused by the manga/anime not the game. Kale and Caulifla (they have names not just FEMALE sayins) a victims of being late edditions to the series as the game was on its way out. We got jiren and likely 17 solo due to thier importance to the top ending. If they are missing from a sequel game that would be more concerning to me. Also 6 Gokus, is nothing considering we normally get that many along with Gohan, Vegeta, krilen, frezza cell and Buu having multiple forms.

Also having read the first page what happened to era not referring to women as "female's" I've been actively changing my vocabulary to try and avoid that did people stop caring about that or am I misunderstanding something?


Can Yamcha win fights in FighterZ?
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,388
Seriously though if Janemba is getting in is there any reason to leave out Dabura? He and Kefla feel like the two no brainer additions to Z2.

I'd like Pan (and more GT characters in general) but I'm not holding my breath.

EDIT: Oh, and Piccolo Daimao. He flies!
 

Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
People that keep talking about having characters use guns realize that even dragon Ball Goku was bullet proof?
Gee, it's almost like the whole plot point/premise of the game is every character being severely weakened unless controlled by you the player, so fighters like Yamcha can fight amongst some of the series most powerful.

Hell even a high tech rifle/bullets Future Mai used against Goku Black (and Goku Black managed to dodge at the split second without seeing the full effects of the bullet). But Goku Black was still felt threatened by and FEARED the bullet for his life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdVO2c6HkB0

Or that guns could be swapped out for lasers. Goku even DIED from a laser gun in RoF until Whis decided to reverse time to save his ass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbdCt9ZEhbE

And let's not ignore that Android 16 in the game uses huge ass combustion/energy blasts from his machine parts. Oh but he uses Ki with his Blasts right? Well, couldn't Bulma just as easily reverse engineer weapons that could do just that? Because she made that bullet for Mai in a future where resources were scarce and manufacturing things were nowhere as easy then the peaceful timeline the Bulma we know is in.

edit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ0bbhQHKno
Hell even without a jetpack look at Chi-Chi's fight with Goku. She is still able to jump a huge distance in her fight with Goku at the end of DragonBall and feel unharmed when landing on her feet.
 

shem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,955
Like yo jirens moveset is pretty accurately summed up by "punches, kicks, and generic ki blasts" along with saying "owari da" 30 times.
 
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OP
Fj0823

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,707
Costa Rica
Like yo jirens moveset is pretty accurately summed up by "punches, kicks, and generic ki blasts" along with saying "owari da" 30 times.

They even added the MEME moves to his moveset
KK5vfAI.gif

I wonder why they would make a reference to a fan meme with oh so little time from the moment it aired!
How could they know!?
A mistery I tell you
 

Sacul64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,793
Dragon Ball Super explains that even Goku can get hit by bullets when his guard is down. Same for Krillin



So if they're not blocking, their Guard is down. Done.


There in a battle that they are literally aware of since they have intros that is lame. If we were talking about the low tier games that just care about advertising their 150+ character roster sure find some dumb way to add Bulma, chi chi at least fought Goku. I wanted them in the game back when I stilled wanted a game like dbzbt3. I accepted that with they style they chose for fighters I would not get hurcule roshi or db Goku. Hell I don't even want the old movie character or gt characters (only started going with the anime at super since the manga is trash). I'm a manga reader so I have zero interest in them. The next game should focus on telling the super saga with those characters coming first which will improve the representation of the newer women in the series and characters in general. Save older less relevant favs as the dlc. In short the answer is not "just add Bulma and make shit up".
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,554
Jiren's moves are pretty visually different from how other characters operate. Hell, my issue with him in fighterZ is that they didn't go far enough with him and seem to mostly keep closer to how he was at the beginning of the ToP. Plus it's not exactly fair to compare a DLC character that was completed after Super was finished verses one who was done long beforehand.
 

Hace

Member
Sep 21, 2018
894
People that keep talking about having characters use guns realize that even dragon Ball Goku was bullet proof?



This is literally your base Goku. Other dragon Ball games fill out the roster where characters are just copy pasted with generic moves that's why fighters Z was such a big deal. Bad representation of women in db is a problem caused by the manga/anime not the game. Kale and Caulifla (they have names not just FEMALE sayins) a victims of being late edditions to the series as the game was on its way out. We got jiren and likely 17 solo due to thier importance to the top ending. If they are missing from a sequel game that would be more concerning to me. Also 6 Gokus, is nothing considering we normally get that many along with Gohan, Vegeta, krilen, frezza cell and Buu having multiple forms.

Also having read the first page what happened to era not referring to women as "female's" I've been actively changing my vocabulary to try and avoid that did people stop caring about that or am I misunderstanding something?

Videl can beat up jiren, loosen up
 
May 9, 2019
850
DB female characters are easily forgettable and barely even liked besides 18 and I guess Videl and Bulma. Chi-Chi is memorable but very disliked and would obviously be a joke character that no one would want taking up space. Now for Kefla, she seems to be on 18's tier from being widely liked and actually competent. Sucks her design is so damn basic.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
19,127
Broly actually had two whole movies devoted to him (three if you want Bio Broly). It's not remotely the same deal with him that it is with 18 and Videl. Also those full fights involving 18 were mostly punches, kicks and generic Ki blasts. Last I checked, you need more then that for a moveset.

Again, Super hadn't even finished airing with this game was done.


Most of them fight with punches and kicks.

And they still manage to short change visually striking moves from her fights

From the vegeta fight they leave out 18's headbutt
And Her knee gut strikes(she does this twice and it could easily be a command grab)

And the two most egreious exclusions of all the palm strike and the arm breaking kick.


They could include 17's whole monologue as a move, but can't include the two most memorable moments from that fight?

Hell they include the stomp, but they can't include the actual kick that fucked Vegeta's arm?
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
Reminder, that since Budokai Tenkaichi 3 Kid Goku hasn't been playable in any fighting game. Even in Infinite World, he was replaced by his GT self. Someone on the top has become very adamant
that characters need to fly naturally to be in fighting games. Only exceprion to this is Hercule, and that's mostly because he's a joke character.
 

Dreazy

Member
Oct 25, 2018
2,018
Give me Janemba, Broly & Gogeta over any of the remaining female dbz characters, Bandai are trying to sell DLC.
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,554
Most of them fight with punches and kicks.

And they still manage to short change visually striking moves from her fights

From the vegeta fight they leave out 18's headbutt
And Her knee gut strikes(she does this twice and it could easily be a command grab)

And the two most egreious exclusions of all the palm strike and the arm breaking kick.


They could include 17's whole monologue as a move, but can't include the two most memorable moments from that fight?

Hell they include the stomp, but they can't include the actual kick that fucked Vegeta's arm?
Oh, I agree with you on them missing some big moves from 18's fight with Vegeta. Not having the kick that broke his arm was a surprisingly big oversight on their part. Still, I think keeping her with 17 was a decent move on making her more unique. I's say they could do a better job with her now that the ToP is over, but even then they would probably add in Krillin for a little of it since some of her new stuff involved working with him.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,614
Well, it's Dragon Ball, they have Android 18, Videl + the new character and that's it. If the game had more female characters they would had to add some really unpopular characters instead of fan favorites. At most they can add Kefla, and maybe GT Pan, and both of them have pretty mixed opinions from fans.
Pretty sure the only people pissy about Kefla are all online and overlap with the same neckbeards who complain about Captain Marvel.