Is it finally time to talk about Dragon Ball FighterZ atrocious female representation?

[Dark Ninja]

To me this is not a problem Dragonball Z its a problem with whoever is in charge of FightersZ development during interviews they said they didn't want to put Bulma(or some other character forgot) in because she couldn't fly. This is non-sense just due to the fact that they went out of their way to explain in the terrible story mode that everyone has been put in the same level so they can compete against eachother they could have easily come up with a similar excuse. There is a sever lack of creativity in the movesets. The gameplay between characters should be more different than what it is now. Some characters have 1 or two moves that sets them apart but they should have gone further they were either too scared or told not too. Put Bulma in a mech its a freaking video game.

Example Trunks should be more sword based. Piccolo should have just had more extended reach/limb moves.

 

[The Turbanator]

I don't really understand why you have an issue with 18 and Videl's kits. Their movesets are meant to be based on their most iconic iterations while combining them with interest fg mechanics, such as assist specials and unconventional projectiles. It's like complaining that kids are shafted because they have to fuse (Gotenks) or grow up (GTku) to kick ass, or that Ginyu or Nappa are shafted because they need henchmen to fight for them. 18's kit is inspired by the era where the Android siblings were kicking the Z-fighters' ass, both in the Android Saga and the future, while Videl's is based on her connection with Gohan and GS in the Tournament Saga. If Kefla or Ribrianne were the playable characters instead, they wouldn't be in this boat due to the nature of their characters.

Though I do agree that Kefla getting skipped in favor of GTku (I actually like Janemba and am excited for him) is a big bummer.

*Unless they have wings biologically and or propel themselves.

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Ribrianne propelled herself using energy wings so idk how well that rule was upheld lol

Yes, they would, as even popular characters like Kid Goku and Master Rochi has stopped showing up in fighting games because they can't fly. Neither of them are playable characters in Infinte Battle, Raging Blast 1 and 2, Battle of Z, Super Butoden, and in Xenoverse 1 and 2. For some reason reason natural flight is consider a big thing in the higher ups of Shueisha.

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Considering Roshi has done jack since DB (barring a bit of cool stuff in ToP) and Kid Goku is, well, grown up, that's probably more because of the source material than their powers.

Caulifla is a Toriyama design

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You misread his comment.

 

[Deleted member 32561]

I'm just glad I didn't buy this game lol. Maybe FighterZ 2 will be better in this regard. It's a big deal to me. If there's a big roster and only a small percentage are women, I lose interest.

If 18 isn't reworked or S17 isn't excluded (either or, but not both) in FighterZ 2 I'm gonna be disappointed. 18 deserves to stand on her own if her brother does.

 

[Illusion]

Ribrianne propelled herself using energy wings so idk how well that rule was upheld lol

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Master Roshi using a bottle for his move or other similar antics of cheating was okay if the Zeno Twins thought it looked cool.
It was wings which were legal, but out of energy so it was cool = safe.

 

[BillFromAccounting]

To me this is not a problem Dragonball Z its a problem with whoever is in charge of FightersZ development during interviews they said they didn't want to put Bulma(or some other character forgot) in because she couldn't fly. This is non-sense just due to the fact that they went out of their way to explain in the terrible story mode that everyone has been put in the same level so they can compete against eachother they could have easily come up with a similar excuse. There is a sever lack of creativity in the movesets. The gameplay between characters should be more different than what it is now. Some characters have 1 or two moves that sets them apart but they should have gone further they were either too scared or told not too. Put Bulma in a mech its a freaking video game.

Example Trunks should be more sword based. Piccolo should have just had more extended reach/limb moves.

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The movesets of the female fighters in fighterz are already easily some of the most unique and interesting movesets in the entire roster.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, the issue is they put TOO much effort into 21/18/videl, they need to make a basic vanilla female ABC combo fighter(kefla probably) so people can finally stop making these kinds of threads.

 

[Yukari]

Caulifla is a Toriyama design

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Few Years later
Tori: Did I design Her ?

 

[Fj0823]

Few Years later
Tori: Did I design Her ?

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You're not wrong.

 

[Zalman]

While it is true that Dragon Ball as a franchise has lacked in this department, the decision to have Android 17 help out 18 was always odd to me - especially now that the former is his own character. I hope this is something they remove in the sequel.

 

[Hate]

Few Years later
Tori: Did I design Her ?

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I hear lunch crying in the distance.

 

[Virtua Sanus]

As someone whos favorite Dragon Ball character is Bulma and most wanted FighterZ character is Launch, I am honestly not too terribly surprised by the lack of girls in the game. I would love to see the devs get super creative and give us something like Future Mai with a shotgun that does wallbounces or something, but realistically most of the women in the series do not have too terribly much to work with. The game's mechanics have kind of tied down how certain characters can work (they need to fly, have to be able to canonically move super fast during dragon rushes, etc). They really just painted themselves into a bunch of corners with what they can give us..

I love 18 with the 17 assist. They did a great job at representing an iconic part of the series well with them as a pair. Making 17 a solo character later on was a huge mistake. That is the kind of character you make once you are well past 40 reps, not when the game is lacking core characters from the franchise.

If we get a season 3 or a straight up sequel next year I feel like Kefla is a lock for sure, but I kinda hate fusions so I would prefer solo Caulifla and solo controlled form Kale. Ribrianne would be great too!

 

[Illusion]

Few Years later
Tori: Did I design Her ?

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I hear lunch crying in the distance.

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Drinking. She's drinking in the distance.

 

[MondoMega]

While it is true that Dragon Ball as a franchise has lacked in this department, the decision to have Android 17 help out 18 was always odd to me - especially now that the former is his own character. I hope this is something they remove in the sequel.

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They explained it before the game released. They only wanted to include one (at first; obviously that changed with 17's return in Super) and because of the lack of female fighters, 18 was the obvious choice as the lead (but they didn't want to leave 17 behind either; thus the role he has).

I'm sure they'll fix it up with FighterZ 2.

 

[BillFromAccounting]

They explained it before the game released. They only wanted to include one (at first; obviously that changed with 17's return in Super) and because of the lack of female fighters, 18 was the obvious choice as the lead (but they didn't want to leave 17 behind either; thus the role he has).

I'm sure they'll fix it up with FighterZ 2.

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Yep.

The lead designer of the game is female, folks. I'm pretty sure she doesn't have some agenda against her own gender.

 

[Cordy]

I don't really understand why you have an issue with 18 and Videl's kits. Their movesets are meant to be based on their most iconic iterations while combining them with interest fg mechanics, such as assist specials and unconventional projectiles. It's like complaining that kids are shafted because they have to fuse (Gotenks) or grow up (GTku) to kick ass, or that Ginyu or Nappa are shafted because they need henchmen to fight for them.

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Yep you're right.

To the Ginyu comment, they had an interview before the game released that pretty much said that Ginyu almost didn't make it because he needed a lot to work for this game. It was to the point where Junya wanted to give up on putting Ginyu in the game. He plays the way he plays because otherwise he wouldn't be in the game. People complaining about certain movesets aren't understanding this game's development.

 

[PSqueak]

I do agree they could do better, specially since the TOP introduced a TON of female fighters that could make it to the game, it's specially a travesty that neither Caulifla nor Kale and not even their Fusion made it to the game.

Tho the Assist thing is not that big of a deal because it's not like only 18 and Videl have assist, some male characters also have assists:

-Ginyu has 4 assist characters
-Adult Gohan is assisted by Goten in his LVL 3
-Nappa summons Saibamen
-Tien has Chiaotzu assists
-Goku Black has Zamasu assists

 

[Deleted member 43657]

I don't get how they didn't include Roshi and Mr. Satan or even Chi-Chi for that matter.

 

[Ryuichi Naruhodo]

I barely know about the Dragon ball universe , but I guess this is more about the series fault itself rather than the game ?

 

[Qikz]

I don't get how they didn't include Roshi and Mr. Satan or even Chi-Chi for that matter.

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Bulma is the one that got me, she's one of the four main characters (Bulma, Krillin, Roshi and Goku). They could've made an awesome item moveset for her.

 

[BeaconofTruth]

I would argue the lack of Kefla, Caulifla, Kale, Rebriene n her universes gals is more troubling, but I'm kind of the other way on 18 n Videl having an extra assist.

Talking gameplay wise, it's a huge advantage to have stuff like that in the game for oki, for absolutely dirty ass mixups, and for a game as homogenized as DBFZ can be, they actually offer something the rest of the cast don't, besides just being chicks. I get looking at it as a disempowering thing, but in the context of the game itself it really isn't. They aren't submissive to 17 or Saiyaman, as much as it's a cute way of doing puppet characters in the context of DBFZ. Because having a 4th assist in this type of game is pretty strong mechanic to have.

21 is an absolute powerhouse in terms of damage.

Would argue it's more of a source material thing than the game thing, necessarily. Fanservice definitely an arcsys thing, but actual having fun female characters to play, in arcsys games you have people like Milia, I-no (GG's your hands tho lol), Baiken, etc. And yes while Kefla has been a thing for the better part of the year, my theory is that a lot of these characters are tied to their US debuts n shit.

Game launched in 2018, when the future trunks saga was being shown in the US. So you get Goku Black, Zamasu, n Vegito over that time span. Now that should have translated to universe saga people being this season (Jirren for instance is), but 2 spots went to a fusion, and the new broly, and Videl thankfully got the other spot. GT Goku taking a spot is lame tho yeah.

 

[Deleted member 1102]

Both the source material and ASW are to blame for sure. Yeah DBZ is an absolute sausage-fest in the first place and ASW didn't have much to work with in terms of female characters, but man why in the hell do two out of three of the female characters have a male pretty much fighting for them? ASW didn't need to do that, but they did it anyway. That shot of Gohan and Videl in the OP is so bad.

 

[Oddish1]

On one hand this is the fault of the series at large and any attempt at accurately reflecting the source material. On the other hand accurately reflecting a sexist show means that you have a sexist game and complaints pointing this out are still completely valid. Especially when the game is behind the show when it comes to women fighters now. At the very minimum ASW could have done better but didn't.

 

[MondoMega]

I barely know about the Dragon ball universe , but I guess this is more about the series fault itself rather than the game ?

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Short answer: yes.

Long answer: well, there ARE female characters for them to choose from, but they fall into one of three categories:

• Aren't actually fighters in the series.
• Aren't important/popular enough to get in over male competition (unless they were included strictly for representation).
• Just haven't been included yet (due to timing for the base roster, and probably the internal decision to save them for the iterative sequel).

I don't get how they didn't include Roshi and Mr. Satan or even Chi-Chi for that matter.

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Roshi and Mr. Satan are probably two of the biggest omissions now, and I feel like they might be saving them for FighterZ 2 (alongside Kefla and a few others).

 

[Iacomus]

The female representaiton has been really bad in the game. No Kelfa is a crime.

Below I did a quick collection of all female characters who could be a character in the game.

 

[NotLiquid]

The "but DBZ was always a sausage fest" line of thinking is a shitty excuse.

It shouldn't be a pass for DBZF to not at least do the best it can. And between not only the lack of key inclusions, but also characters like 18 and Pan being bootstrapped to other characters, it clearly doesn't.

Especially when we have jobbers extraordinaire on the roster, and a story reason for why they can go head to head, theres no excuse for them even by Toriyama's shitty handling of characters.

 

[Deleted member 1102]

I'm honestly shocked so many people are giving ASW a complete pass here

 

[Lotus]

I'm honestly shocked so many people are giving ASW a complete pass here

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It's nothing new

I don't get how they didn't include Roshi and Mr. Satan or even Chi-Chi for that matter.

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Any character that can't canonically fly never really had a shot, for this game anyways.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Yes, please, let's talk about it. Caulifla, Kale and Kefla all being absent from both character passes is such a massive "fuck you" that I refuse to buy either of them. The fuck are they thinking?

You do know the ToP arc, the one they were in, finished airing in Japan two months after the game came out, right? Jiren is the only ToP character in the game, he was the most important character in that arc, and he was recent season 2 DLC.

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Gotta love these shitty justifications and how they've evolved over time.
"Kefla didn't make it because because she showed up too late."
*Jiren added to character pass 2*
"Jiren is the most important character in the arc."
*Janemba, second Broly added to character pass 2*
"... this is Chewbacca. He lives on Endor."

 

[MondoMega]

The female representaiton has been really bad in the game. No Kelfa is a crime.

Below I did a quick collection of all female characters who could be a character in the game.

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This isn't Xenoverse. They aren't going add fodder ToP Fighters with barely any reference fights or the GoD/Angels that never fight. Xenoverse might not even be an accurate point of reference here, because they didn't even include those characters either.

On this list, the only real possible picks (allowing for some major non-fighter characters who are relevant enough to be worth giving an original moveset) are:

• Bulma
• Chi-Chi
• Launch
• Pan
• Caulifa
• Kale
• Kefla
• Future Mai
• Ribrianne (with her two partners)
• Arale (maybe)
• Towa (maybe)

I can't even see all of these happening, but they do have a non-zero chance (though for some like Bulma, Chi-Chi, Launch and Future Mai, it could be pretty close, at least based on the roster so far and interviews surrounding the game).

 

[The Silver]

It's nothing new



Any character that can't canonically fly never really had a shot, for this game anyways.

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It's such a straight up bullshit excuse(from them, not from you) when characters have alternate ways of flying. Roshi has the turtle, Herc has a jetpack, Chi Chi and Kid Goku(real kid Goku not GT) have the nimbus. They can do the same things every other character can just with different animations.

 

[Opa-Opa]

Arale would be cool. With Sembe, Gatcham and the whole gang.

Other than her... well, Kefla and Caulifa have pretty good chances of happening I suppose, maybe even together.
But whatever, just another screams - super sayan - energy wave - punch really fast characters.
The others won't happen, they're not a big deal in the series.

 

[Gold Arsene]

I do agree they could do better, specially since the TOP introduced a TON of female fighters that could make it to the game, it's specially a travesty that neither Caulifla nor Kale and not even their Fusion made it to the game.

Tho the Assist thing is not that big of a deal because it's not like only 18 and Videl have assist, some male characters also have assists:

-Ginyu has 4 assist characters
-Adult Gohan is assisted by Goten in his LVL 3
-Nappa summons Saibamen
-Tien has Chiaotzu assists
-Goku Black has Zamasu assists

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The problem with this comparison is that there are plenty of dudes who fight by themselves. In addition non of those assits are women.

Compare that to the female roster where literally 2/3 of them have a dude helping them.

It's especially insulting for 18 because her assist gets to be their own character.

By himself of course. No need for a girls help apparently.

 

[LiK]

How about a female Goku?

 

[Windrunner]

If nothing else it shows ASW's lack of imagination: wouldn't it be great to fight as Bulma using mechs/capsules, Arale's general madness (Senbei can zap her with something pre-fight to make her bigger if that's a concern), Kefla or Chichi with Kintōun like the PS2 game? Nope, gotta add more Gokus and another Broly.

 

[Deleted member 6230]

Don't know if this was brought up but Arale Norimaki from Doctor Slump would have a good pick for the roster in a series that's pressed for women representation.

 

[NotLiquid]

Don't know if this was brought up but Arale Norimaki from Doctor Slump would have a good pick for the roster in a series that's pressed for women representation.

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I've wanted Arale as a crossover gag character in this game since day one. She doesn't even have the "short" argument working against her since we have Gotenks and Kid Goku on the roster. Unfortunately I kinda realized even back then that fighting games don't really get that creative with character inclusions anymore and that was gonna be especially endemic with DBZF's brand of low hanging fruit.

 

[Ferrs]

There was no excuse on putting 18 with 17 as an assist and later put 17 alone but not 18. That was some giant "fuck you".

 

[WrenchNinja]

I didnt buy the first pass cause all of the charscter choices were bad. I would have bought the second pass if it had Kefla and UI Goku.

 

[Illusion]

I didnt buy the first pass cause all of the charscter choices were bad. I would have bought the second pass if it had Kefla and UI Goku.

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Take out Goku and this is my opinion entirely.

Honestly, the characters left on the table that I want are mostly Kefla, Kale, and Caulifa. Toppo in his God of destruction form. And whatever fusions they can chalk up because I'm fascinated and in love with fusions in any form.

 

[Noctis]

If nothing else it shows ASW's lack of imagination: wouldn't it be great to fight as Bulma using mechs/capsules, Arale's general madness (Senbei can zap her with something pre-fight to make her bigger if that's a concern), Kefla or Chichi with Kintōun like the PS2 game? Nope, gotta add more Gokus and another Broly.

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To be fair, they did say they want to be as faithful to the source material as possible. For everything else there's always xenoverse. Before folks jump on me saying I'm being an apologist it's what Arc said whether you, me or anyone else agrees with that stance or not.. at least they were upfront about it.

 

[artemis]

Put Erasa in. Then I will buy this shitty game.

 

[dlauv]

It's symptomatic of the show. It would have been fun to have Bulma or Chi-Chi.

I always thought this was a cool outfit, but it's not really based on manga panels - just those weird covers, like:

Not that basing a character on manga panels is a requirement, obviously. But every character outside of Android 21 is based on some tangible Dragon Ball media, with clear references to panels or storyboards. But maybe they'll listen to feedback and work beyond that. Chi-Chi or Launch would easily work though. There's enough fighting footage of them.

 

[Htown]

took an anime series that already had shitty representation of female characters and somehow made it worse

gotta make sure to fit as many versions of goku in there as possible though

 

[Kyora90]

Goku isn't female, so I don't think they can put more women in the game.

 

[jett]

What ArcSys did with both Videl and #18 is absolutely bizarre. Some deeply-rooted sexism in there for sure.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

I've come to learn it's much easier for ppl to blame the game and name like 4 characters than it is to blame the actual series it's self for some reason

 

[Mugy]

The only thing that sux from all of this is the lack of Kefla, that i agree. But if i had to pick between her and Janemba, i easily pcik the last one. At least he can be somewhat different with his moveset, instead of yet another saiyan

 

[Deleted member 18742]

Yeah and it's not like DBZ & Super doesn't have strong females or anything. Like where is Kefla?

Roster in general is really bad. Beating a dead horse here but did we really need all of those Goku's and Vegeta's...

 

[Master Alucard]

The female representaiton has been really bad in the game. No Kelfa is a crime.

Below I did a quick collection of all female characters who could be a character in the game.

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90% of the characters on this list are "who?" tier, i could see bulma with capsule tech attacks and caulifla (i do think she shoud be in the game as she had a major role in the anime), and that's it. the game doesn't have many female characters because the source

 

[Rutger]

I'm honestly shocked so many people are giving ASW a complete pass here

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I don't think they have the final say, ASW is typically one of the better developers when it comes to the gender ratio in their fighting games.

But they are working with a licensed IP and choices like all the Gokus and Vegetas make more sense as calls by Shueisha, Toei, or Namco Bandai given the history of DB games.
There is absolutely a problem, and it starts with those at the top being too scared to try things without Goku.

 

[Silky]

I cannot see any other female character being in this game beyond Zangya, Arale, Launch and the Broly twins I guess