How can you say with certainty that people that say " I turned out fine" probably didn't?
Is physically reprimanding your kids child abuse? (i.e. spanking, whoopings)
- Thread starter AnansiThePersona
- Start date
He can't. But posts that say "I turned out fine" are tone deaf and honestly not worth taking in to account because it doesn't prove the contrary.
Yeah, there is a difference between a harmless reaction and getting an object and hitting your child with it. My sister used to spank her kids with a fucking spatula.
A lot of this bullshit 'back in my day / pussification of America' continues to give parents an easy way out.
Honestly if you think about a kid getting hit/beat/whatever frequently by people who are supposed to love them unconditionally it's pretty easy to see that something inside them would change. It doesn't have to be something extreme like becoming a serial killer or some shit, even though that's the kind of thinking behind a lot of this "you're damaged!" type posts. Lots of people have trust issues, intimacy issues, etc.
With many in these threads the sentiment is not coming from some place of genuine sympathy; it's the need to feel like they're better than others.
parents teaching their children how to use the fear of physical suffering to control people is probably a bad idea if they are planning to rely on their children to take care of them as they grow more feeble
i'm curious if there's a correlation between an aging parent being neglected or suffering elder abuse and them previously "physically disciplining" their child
(which is not to imply that victims of elder neglect and abuse previously abused their children, but rather that this culture of "discipline" through violence can flip when the balance of power flips - the child doesn't necessary have to learn that "lesson" from their parents)
i'm curious if there's a correlation between an aging parent being neglected or suffering elder abuse and them previously "physically disciplining" their child
(which is not to imply that victims of elder neglect and abuse previously abused their children, but rather that this culture of "discipline" through violence can flip when the balance of power flips - the child doesn't necessary have to learn that "lesson" from their parents)
It's just a troublesome convo to have since we all have degrees of what's acceptable and not. Even the lightest of examples some think it's abuse which is amusing, however some went through horrible experiences so I can't fault them for perhaps not being able to distinguish a light spanking with the fear that it could escalate further.
If I was certain I would have said "certainly not" instead of "probably not". I chose the word for a reason. And in many cases a lot of people are affected in ways that even they themselves are not aware of. However not everyone has the means or the willingness to get down to the root of their psychological integrity, especially in the US where mental illness and disorders are regarded with shame and even criminality while also woefully under appreciated as societal issue. So people are more vehement to deny having any problem.
Sure, but to say that it all stems from getting spanked as a kid is nuts.
I don't get this shit. Pretty sure they teach you to smack puppies on the mouth and say no when they are biting you. Not a hard smack to instill pain. Just a light tap to get their attention to teach them right or wrong. The comparison to hitting a spouse makes no sense because a human adult would know the difference between right and wrong.
Yeah I feel like many who are saying no spanking is not child abuse, falls more in line with the scenario I presented and aren't running around with wooden spatulas looking to beat their asses raw.
I see the same exact thing with my brother's 3 year old boy, only multiplied by 12 months of that, since he was 2. I genuinely fear that kid is going to be killed or maimed in a carpark/road incident. I tell my brother all the time, so does our mother (grandmother). Sometimes they don't get it from a series of passive methods then you need to make dangerous actions stop right there and then. I don't get the idea of positive reinforcement in this sort of road scenario either, what you're supposed to wave a cookie from the sidewalk to attract them back while they death dance in the middle of the road?
I'd never consider butt or wrist booping my 9 or 6 year old anymore, they're out of that "too young to get it stage" but I fall on the same discussions points you raise. When they were younger I or my wife had no issue with giving them a boop on the butt or wrist for the right scenario. Abuse is a whole other category and comes in far more forms than just physical. Parents neglect is also out of hand these days too. At older ages positive reinforcement and consequences are far more effective and healthier actions to undertake.
Last edited:
Think about this. When our baby was underweight and in neonatal intensive c , the nurses were showing us how to hold comfort a small baby , something they always do. One of their techniques was to pat their bottoms as they said it made them feel secure.
How you gonna go from that to smacking their bottom to inflict pain on them ? Shits fucked up if you think about it
Even though I turned out fine lol
How you gonna go from that to smacking their bottom to inflict pain on them ? Shits fucked up if you think about it
Even though I turned out fine lol
Hitting a child shows that you are helpless and dont a way to deal with the situation other than demonstrating that you are the stronger person. A child when acting up is always helpless and doesnt know another way to show. If you beat that child up you emphasize that feeling.
A child running cross the street? Well, you should hit the playground more often. It needs movement. Hot plate? You can explain and talk and hit all you want, unless a child felt the warmth it wont truly understand. My sister held my niece hand close over it so she felt the heat, but not touching. My niece even panicked a bit in that very moment, but she finally understood. Powersupplies? Secure them.
Clearly, it can be a way to go if you never learned another approach, but to be honest it just shows how many problem solving skills you lack. Pity worthy.
On the other hand: People who grew up with violence often dont learn another way to deal with problems and eventually resolve them with violence, unless they are very clever and were able to develop additional skills. That's why a lot bring the argument of "it didnt harm me".
A child running cross the street? Well, you should hit the playground more often. It needs movement. Hot plate? You can explain and talk and hit all you want, unless a child felt the warmth it wont truly understand. My sister held my niece hand close over it so she felt the heat, but not touching. My niece even panicked a bit in that very moment, but she finally understood. Powersupplies? Secure them.
Clearly, it can be a way to go if you never learned another approach, but to be honest it just shows how many problem solving skills you lack. Pity worthy.
On the other hand: People who grew up with violence often dont learn another way to deal with problems and eventually resolve them with violence, unless they are very clever and were able to develop additional skills. That's why a lot bring the argument of "it didnt harm me".
Last edited:
You're talking about light taps to get attention, after I specifically said "whoop your kid's ass". Is not knowing right from wrong supposed to make violence against a child better?
I slapped my dog on the nose once ( and for the last time) after he threw up in my car . He looked at me all sad eyed. I shook my head afterwards for about 20 min and had to sit down . The guilt. Have never touched him like that since. Can't imagine ever touching my child
I was never hit hard as a kid, worst I ever got was a light spanking or having to stand I'm a corner. At some point in my childhood my parents both realized the spankings were wrong and stopped them. Never had any affect on me growing up, mainly because it was light I the first place. That being said I think it's wrong it would absolutely not do it. My parents still feel guilt for them doing it when I was younger.
To those saying it's for safety ... daycare centers all over North America employ expert caregivers who absolutely can never hit a child and don't need to. And if they did they'd have their licence stripped .
And they are able to guide and instruct numerous children at once.
Also hint - don't ever tell a social worker you hit your kid or do it in public either . Laws may vary but here you will absolutely get a surprise visit from a child protection worker
And they are able to guide and instruct numerous children at once.
Also hint - don't ever tell a social worker you hit your kid or do it in public either . Laws may vary but here you will absolutely get a surprise visit from a child protection worker
A stern talking to only works if there's consequences involved that the kid will fear. That doesn't have to solely be about hitting necessarily, but just sitting a kid down and talking aint going to do anything lmao. This isn't some scholar you're having a philosophy debate with it's a small child with an under developed brain still. They learn through consequences.
I am absolutely against hitting a child in any way. It shows that you have an inability to teach your child right from wrong. Or maybe you're just a piece of shit that is too lazy to put in the work to teach your child so you beat them instead because it'll show some kind of immediate result?
I'm not a parent, but being raised in a house where I was constantly beat for reasons I never understood and still don't, I'm absolutely against it. My relationship with my father is quite awful now ever since I was about 16 and finally was old enough to stand up to him. I honestly can count on one hand the number of conversations we've had since.
Don't use your kids as a punching bag.
I'm not a parent, but being raised in a house where I was constantly beat for reasons I never understood and still don't, I'm absolutely against it. My relationship with my father is quite awful now ever since I was about 16 and finally was old enough to stand up to him. I honestly can count on one hand the number of conversations we've had since.
Don't use your kids as a punching bag.
I have very bad anger issues because my parents beat me. I wanted to beat them. And sometimes I still want to do it for the emotional stress it put on me.
And I hate saying this, but I think I'm happier after my dad passed than before he did. I miss him too but there was definitely things I hated.
So yea, if I ever have a kid. I'm going to try my best to never lay a hand on them.
And I hate saying this, but I think I'm happier after my dad passed than before he did. I miss him too but there was definitely things I hated.
So yea, if I ever have a kid. I'm going to try my best to never lay a hand on them.
I think it's fine to acknowledge that corporal punishment can work sometimes while still broadly deter the practice because parents/guardians can not be trusted to distinguish between discipline and abuse. It's better policy to err towards the side of... not child abuse.
On the other hand, as an "I turned out fine example", people who dismiss our experiences are basically antagonizing and comparing parents who did a good job with child abusers which I am not fine with. Many of us were slapped sparingly and with restraint, less than a handful of times personally when I was extremely out of line. And those slaps were still preferable to the disappointed parent speech. Many of us turned out fine because of infrequent but important physical punishment not in spite of them.
Of course I have an immigrant perspective, but it's one of the commonalities many immigrants share - good, hard working parents that loved, sacrificed, and occasionally spanked. Especially compared to many (generally) white kids who kept escalating their dumb shit and turned into walking disasters because their parents couldn't bare to spank their precious. Again, this isn't to diminish folks who had legitimately abusive households, that is not OK, but neither is confusing the two.
On the other hand, as an "I turned out fine example", people who dismiss our experiences are basically antagonizing and comparing parents who did a good job with child abusers which I am not fine with. Many of us were slapped sparingly and with restraint, less than a handful of times personally when I was extremely out of line. And those slaps were still preferable to the disappointed parent speech. Many of us turned out fine because of infrequent but important physical punishment not in spite of them.
Of course I have an immigrant perspective, but it's one of the commonalities many immigrants share - good, hard working parents that loved, sacrificed, and occasionally spanked. Especially compared to many (generally) white kids who kept escalating their dumb shit and turned into walking disasters because their parents couldn't bare to spank their precious. Again, this isn't to diminish folks who had legitimately abusive households, that is not OK, but neither is confusing the two.
Yes it's abuse and it's wrong, especially if it is going so far as to be considered a beating. There are far better methods that won't cause physical and psychological harm to your child, like taking away privileges for example. Beating your kid is 100% child abuse, inexcusable, and should be illegal.
Now that doesn't mean spanking your kid = CPS coming to take your kids away. The system couldn't handle that and removing kids from parents is far more traumatic than a spanking. People should reflect on what spanking teaches your child though, and what kind of damage you might be doing to your relationship with them by using any sort of physical punishment.
Now that doesn't mean spanking your kid = CPS coming to take your kids away. The system couldn't handle that and removing kids from parents is far more traumatic than a spanking. People should reflect on what spanking teaches your child though, and what kind of damage you might be doing to your relationship with them by using any sort of physical punishment.
I'll preface this by saying that I'll always prefer the method of taking fun things away from my children as punishment over physical pain, but the threat of a swat on the ass worked for me even if I only got it a few times. Anything more than that I feel is abuse but I can understand why it may have a ripple effect in someone else's life.
For the most part, absolutely not.
If your child is so young that they can't understand your verbal reprimands, there is no way that
a physical reprimand is going to teach them anything. Popping them on the hand to keep them from touching a hot stove, etc.
should really be the limit.
I do think it's sometimes necessary to be forceful with them, but only in extreme and specific situations.
My wife has probably slapped my son upside the head about 5-6 times, and it has always been in response to him
hurting his little sister in spite of multiple warnings. Knocking her upside the head with a toy car that she grabbed from him, etc.
It was a short phase and he quickly learned not to mistreat his sister even if she is misbehaving.
He now comes to us 99% of the time for their squabbles.
Now we are dealing with the fact that the little sister is pushing those same boundaries and picking on him more than the other way around...
If your child is so young that they can't understand your verbal reprimands, there is no way that
a physical reprimand is going to teach them anything. Popping them on the hand to keep them from touching a hot stove, etc.
should really be the limit.
I do think it's sometimes necessary to be forceful with them, but only in extreme and specific situations.
My wife has probably slapped my son upside the head about 5-6 times, and it has always been in response to him
hurting his little sister in spite of multiple warnings. Knocking her upside the head with a toy car that she grabbed from him, etc.
It was a short phase and he quickly learned not to mistreat his sister even if she is misbehaving.
He now comes to us 99% of the time for their squabbles.
Now we are dealing with the fact that the little sister is pushing those same boundaries and picking on him more than the other way around...
I mean, would you want teachers spanking your kids? They are trained childcare professionals and thus should be able to deal with kids in an effective manner. If spanking is a legitimate solution then shouldn't they be able to utilize it?
I actually did get spanked by teachers as a kid. Apparently talking to my friend during Winnie the Pooh was crossing the line.
I actually did get spanked by teachers as a kid. Apparently talking to my friend during Winnie the Pooh was crossing the line.
I had a coworker who said it was her God-given duty to hit her children. Disgusting.
I got spanked. Leather belts, or whatever was on hand. I had anger management issues into my 20s. I got better, but by then I was pretty dedicated to nihilism with a dollop of antinatalism.
I got spanked. Leather belts, or whatever was on hand. I had anger management issues into my 20s. I got better, but by then I was pretty dedicated to nihilism with a dollop of antinatalism.
A light tap is, by definition, a hit. Something you said would land someone in jail. And you are one of several people who have stated hitting an animal would land someone in jail. There's a huge difference between a hit and whoopin someone's ass. Whoopin a kids ass will land you in jail just as whoopin a dog or spouse. A light tap on a dogs nose for biting or a light tap on a child's hand (under 3 or so) for repeatedly pulling your hair is physically reprimanding. Which is what the OP talks about.
I feel like, and have no proof obviously, that people in here are talking about different things. Most logical people know it's wrong to abuse anything. Most logical people should agree that a light tap to correct repeated behavior used as an attention getter as you stated, would be acceptable. Both are technically physical, but I dont think people here, on either side of the argument, are clearly stating what they are referring to when they say things like hit, abuse, beat, smack, whoop, etc.
I agree. It is wrong. You can discipline and teach respect and morals without hurting your kid or loved one.
People bringing up child services for spanking a child make me want to laugh my ass off...I don't think the system can handle taking in millions of kids because they've been spanked on the butt for some well deserved discipline (no, smacking your kids around daily for simple things is not well deserved discipline). Plus there is more damaging trauma that would happen if kid gets ripped from parents for something so simple.
It's good to see that most people get it now. It hasn't always been that way with this community (especially 5+ years ago).
For those that still think physical punishment is okay in small doses, consider that there is a tremendous amount of scholarly research on this subject and the overwhelming conclusion is that physical punishment straight up doesn't work. So there is really never any reason to resort to it.
For those that still think physical punishment is okay in small doses, consider that there is a tremendous amount of scholarly research on this subject and the overwhelming conclusion is that physical punishment straight up doesn't work. So there is really never any reason to resort to it.
Exactly. But now I think you're being obtuse about the context of my post. Tell you what: Just assume I meant something like "kick an animal." Or whatever would put it on the same level as whooping a kid's ass, or wife beating, because somehow the latter 2 didn't make it clear to you that I wasn't talking about getting attention by taping your spouse on the shoulder.
No, it isn't. And OP, this forum isn't representative on this issue (of Americans, in general). Not only is spanking legal but it is widely socially acceptable.
I have spanked my kids. I've got five, four biological and one stepdaughter that I've raised since she was a toddler. However, I haven't spanked one of them in almost 3 years. My wife spanks too, and I think it has been 2 years for her. Some kids, spanking modifies behavior. Some kids, it doesn't. Growing up, I got the belt, and my younger brothers got worse. My father was a tyrant and our family was terrified of his rages. My kids don't walk around in terror of me, we have a good trusting relationship, and it's a far different situation. Physical discipline can help, particularly younger children who can't be reasoned with, or a hysterical child past listening.
Within the boundaries of the law, physical discipline is something that each parent has the right to decide for themselves and their children.
I have spanked my kids. I've got five, four biological and one stepdaughter that I've raised since she was a toddler. However, I haven't spanked one of them in almost 3 years. My wife spanks too, and I think it has been 2 years for her. Some kids, spanking modifies behavior. Some kids, it doesn't. Growing up, I got the belt, and my younger brothers got worse. My father was a tyrant and our family was terrified of his rages. My kids don't walk around in terror of me, we have a good trusting relationship, and it's a far different situation. Physical discipline can help, particularly younger children who can't be reasoned with, or a hysterical child past listening.
Within the boundaries of the law, physical discipline is something that each parent has the right to decide for themselves and their children.
Not trying to be a dick, but you stated hitting a dig or spouse would land someone in jail while whoopin a kids ass wouldn't. But whoppin a kids ass would land you in jail. I apologize for misunderstanding your post, but context is everything. A hit is a very broad term and can mean anything on either side of the spectrum while whoopin ass has a pretty clear definition. I just feel like if your going to compare hitting a dog and spouse vs hitting a child, you should use terms that have more specific meanings. Again, apologies for misinterpreting.
It's dumb and bad parenting. We have a ton of research on it. It doesn't do what parents think it does. Conditioning doesn't work like that.
Edit: it also has an expiration date. Can't spank your late high schooler; that's just domestic assault when they're that old. If you can't raise a toddler without physical punishment, you damn well can't handle an older teen.
I went to high school with too many dudes that fought their dads to count. Half of 'em have records now. Their parents didn't know how to handle them in elementary school, so when their kids got big enough to hit back, they had nothing.
Edit: it also has an expiration date. Can't spank your late high schooler; that's just domestic assault when they're that old. If you can't raise a toddler without physical punishment, you damn well can't handle an older teen.
I went to high school with too many dudes that fought their dads to count. Half of 'em have records now. Their parents didn't know how to handle them in elementary school, so when their kids got big enough to hit back, they had nothing.
I have threatened a few times that I would call the police on my parents but that the consequence of doing that would be being separated from them and that was a much larger fear for me as a kid. I never went through with my threats and justice was not served.
I mean, psych major here, so yeah... It definitely 100% is. There's absolutely no situation where it's the only answer. There are always alternatives, alternatives that are just as if not more effective than corporal punishment with none of the downsides. Study after study after study after study shows this.
Not that one should really need studies for that anyway but alas. What are you doing hitting someone do young and vulnerable anyway, someone that looks up yo and depends on you? Like obviously as s parent you shouldn't be your kid's best friend, hut not should you be their enemy. And like... If that's the plan when they're a two year-old, if that's the best you got then, what exactly are you planning to do once they become a teenager and that doesn't work anymore? Gotta figure something else out eventually at least. So why not do that from the very beginning in the first place?
There's just no reason for it, ever.
Not that one should really need studies for that anyway but alas. What are you doing hitting someone do young and vulnerable anyway, someone that looks up yo and depends on you? Like obviously as s parent you shouldn't be your kid's best friend, hut not should you be their enemy. And like... If that's the plan when they're a two year-old, if that's the best you got then, what exactly are you planning to do once they become a teenager and that doesn't work anymore? Gotta figure something else out eventually at least. So why not do that from the very beginning in the first place?
There's just no reason for it, ever.
That's a preventative measure, not a response to address and teach.
I'm not saying you should hit a child in that situation mind you, but there can be circumstances where there isn't time or too much risk to take a passive action. However, once the danger is passed, follow through as you normally would with the addition of addressing why they were grabbed/hand smacked. Obviously, these are for exceptional circumstances, not the rule.
It's something that certainly needs to start early and must be followed through by all involved parties. You can't just start trying to get a kid under control in the middle of the supermarket where there's no established concept of punishment for them to expect after. I agree most parents who resort/lead with corporal punishment are either at a loss or don't want to put much effort.
It is. If a child is old enough to understand reason, use reason to teach them right from wrong.
If they're not old enough to understand reason, they're not old enough to understand the reason you're giving them an ass whooping. Beatings only instill them with a "might makes right" mentality. That violence is the best way to make someone behave in a way that you'd like. Not good and if I ever become a father I won't resort to spankings. Probably gonna take some parenting lessons to help with that as I was raised being spanked so I'll probably slip up occasionally and do it. But I know for sure there's a better way.
If they're not old enough to understand reason, they're not old enough to understand the reason you're giving them an ass whooping. Beatings only instill them with a "might makes right" mentality. That violence is the best way to make someone behave in a way that you'd like. Not good and if I ever become a father I won't resort to spankings. Probably gonna take some parenting lessons to help with that as I was raised being spanked so I'll probably slip up occasionally and do it. But I know for sure there's a better way.
Yup, I swear they don't make them like they used to. My mom's whipped me and my brothers ass. And guess what ?
We both good. We learned. Don't do dumb shit.
From my experience, I know plenty of kids who got a whoopin if they really fucked up. Years later, at our old ages of 30+, they are fine.
I always find it amusing to compare the difference in tone of the pro-spanking and anti-spanking posts, and the way people articulate themselves often correlates with the tone. The angry, aggressive and emotional posts usually defend spanking and say they've been subjected to it and are totally fine, and the anti-spanking posts are often more based on reason and empathy.
hmmemoji
hmmemoji
There is no excuse to use violence against a child.
Im working in child care, 0-6, we do trips regulary and i never had a problem with that.
Make sure you walk on the dangerous site, dont let your child's hand go on a parking lot and you are safe.
So yeah, if you have problems withthat, it means your child needs more movement (not to be moved in a car only).
Yeah it is nuts. I know a number of people who are clinically depressed, and were never spanked a day in their lives. The opposite in fact, they were put on a pedestal as a child.