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Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,390
Disregarding the 9700 Pro, really pushing yourselves here. Xbox came out in Nov 2001, but Geforce 4 Ti was Feb 2002.

The X360 was quite beyond what was available though, sans the resolution. And in handheld terms, the PSP was from the far future.

However both PS360 only made it possible by massive losses per unit and tons of R&D in custom hardware. Not something anyone at both MS or Sony aside of Kutaragi would want to try again. So yeah, it is possible, but likely the investment will be huge, and the price of the console will be evidently so, whilst still making a loss per unit.

That doesnt disprove my point that in the last double decade we have had a console launch that was more powerful than an affordable computer...in the Xbox case it launch with a chip beyond what was widely available at the time.

So in regards to next gen console, its is wholly possible for a next gen machine to drop with a GPU that is comparable if not better than an $800 computer.

A $500 next gen console should trump a midrange PC.
Assuming they keep up with the whole Premium and Reggie model....the next top box will probably launch with a chip that decks low-midrange computers.

The One X already gives a 1050/1060 a run for its money.

Next gen the consoles should have a problem beating the XX50 and XX60 of that generation.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,071
Actually, just a serious question, but looking into the past, what happens if we factor in arcade cabinets? During the early and mid 90's you have to admit SEGA's arcade games looked pretty crazy.

We keep talking about Mario 64 and Tomb Raider and Quake 1, but was there any 1996 PC game that looked as good as Virtua Fighter 3? Or do you just take into account that VF3 was a fighting game that only rendered two characters and a small arena at a time?
 

xellos2099

Banned
Nov 5, 2017
128
By the time most console hardware is released it has been in development for two or more years, which means in all likelihood the architecture is also two or more years old. So it's extremely unlikely that the hardware would be "better" in any objective sense.

I think it is about price/ performance ratio.
 
That doesnt disprove my point that in the last double decade we have had a console launch that was more powerful than an affordable computer...in the Xbox case it launch with a chip beyond what was widely available at the time.

So in regards to next gen console, its is wholly possible for a next gen machine to drop with a GPU that is comparable if not better than an $800 computer.
In the OG Xbox case its GPU was a GF3/4 hybrid. It was a bit more advanced then what was out there (DX 8.1), but it only held that for 2-3 months tops when the GF4 Ti was announced.

In regards to the X360, i already explained why, so i dont exactly understand why you re-use that part of your post.

A $500 next gen console should trump a midrange PC.
Assuming they keep up with the whole Premium and Reggie model....the next top box will probably launch with a chip that decks low-midrange computers
Depends what one classifies as a ''mid-range'' PC. You already have a user claming a mid-range PC is 800-1200 bucks, globally twice as much as an X and undoubtely in a bigger case.

The One X already gives a 1050/1060 a run for its money.
You are only comparing to a GPU which is extra pricey at this moment. You have to factor in case, CPU and what not aswell. Because current-gen console runs the Jaguar platform, you gain the most performance with pretty much any PC cpu out there.
Which is why stuff like the Zbox MA551 is very interesting, because it's set to deliver near XBO/PS4 levels of performance at a small size.
 

BlacJack

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,021
Eh, I think it is debatable. The cheapest product isn't necessarily the one that offers the best value.

I mean, I 100% agree. I feel like overall I save money with PC. But this initial cost is daunting. It's what most people use as an excuse for not gaming on PC, along with couch gaming (lul). But looking at it for what it is, you can play a lot more games on a $400 console than you could on a $400 PC.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,893
We keep talking about Mario 64 and Tomb Raider and Quake 1, but was there any 1996 PC game that looked as good as Virtua Fighter 3?
Arcades by that time has already used graphics accelerators while PC's first successful GPU (3dfx Voodoo Graphics) launched in early 1997 and it took the industry some time to provide meaningful support in newer titles. By the end of 1999 there was little doubt on where games looked better - even if consoles still have an edge in performance sometimes because of better optimization and generally specialized hardware.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,831
I mean, I 100% agree. I feel like overall I save money with PC. But this initial cost is daunting. It's what most people use as an excuse for not gaming on PC, along with couch gaming (lul). But looking at it for what it is, you can play a lot more games on a $400 console than you could on a $400 PC.

Can you? With a $400 PC you gain access to the massive catalog of PC games, many of which don't need high-end hardware to perform well. A $400 PC can play literally thousands of games, no games console can come even close.

I think your point probably was that a $400 console is likely to have more graphical horsepower than a similarly priced PC, so games might run decently on console and poorly or not at all on PC. It's a reasonable point but I do have some thoughts on it:

- The difference in GPU horsepower will not be that big. For example, the $500 XB1X performs at the level of a GTX 1060 while a $500 PC can only accomodate a 1050ti due to the cryptomining GPU pricing bloat. While that GPU is certainly weaker, it's still no slouch and it can play every game out there at 1080p and medium settings.

- Graphics settings on PC can allow modern games to run on some really old, really weak systems. On PC there is no forced cutoff point like on consoles, the release of new hardware doesn't mean that old hardware is obsolete. Even if games won't run quite as well as on the console, you will still be able to get a decent experience by using graphics settings to take some load off your machine.

- PCs are upgradable, which means that although the initial cost is higher you can save money in the future by upgrading only some parts. Buying a PS4 at launch and then the PS4 Pro at launch would cost you $800 in total. Buying a $600 PC and buying a new $200 graphics card three years later would cost you the same but you'd have better performance than both consoles.

That's the great thing about PCs, you get a lot of options.
 

BlacJack

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,021
Can you? With a $400 PC you gain access to the massive catalog of PC games, many of which don't need high-end hardware to perform well. A $400 PC can play literally thousands of games, no games console can come even close.

I think your point probably was that a $400 console is likely to have more graphical horsepower than a similarly priced PC, so games might run decently on console and poorly or not at all on PC. It's a reasonable point but I do have some thoughts on it:

- The difference in GPU horsepower will not be that big. For example, the $500 XB1X performs at the level of a GTX 1060 while a $500 PC can only accomodate a 1050ti due to the cryptomining GPU pricing bloat. While that GPU is certainly weaker, it's still no slouch and it can play every game out there at 1080p and medium settings.

- Graphics settings on PC can allow modern games to run on some really old, really weak systems. On PC there is no forced cutoff point like on consoles, the release of new hardware doesn't mean that old hardware is obsolete. Even if games won't run quite as well as on the console, you will still be able to get a decent experience by using graphics settings to take some load off your machine.

- PCs are upgradable, which means that although the initial cost is higher you can save money in the future by upgrading only some parts. Buying a PS4 at launch and then the PS4 Pro at launch would cost you $800 in total. Buying a $600 PC and buying a new $200 graphics card three years later would cost you the same but you'd have better performance than both consoles.

That's the great thing about PCs, you get a lot of options.

I agree with all your points, I'm a huge PC gamer myself haha. My point was that you'd get more graphical power potential, most definitely not the catalogue, which really is unmatched and priced better. Didn't realize you could get a 1050ti into a decent PC build for $500. Pretty impressive.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
Depends on PC price parts for consumers which depends on how dead or alive Cryptocurrencies become by 2020ish, methinks. Its certainly possible, though id wager unlikely.
 

Spectone

Member
Well, when I look at the costs of "budget" PC here in Germany...
budget_pc0cobd.png
That's a mid-range system not budget.
 

Abrasion Test

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,797
Assuming bitcoin miners keep buying 10 gpus and the market for PC parts stays overpriced because of it, yes.
It really is the worst time to build a PC right now. I don't know how long it's going to last, but I seriously would not even consider building with the current prices of Ram and Gpus.
 

RiPPn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,562
Phoenix
I just built a nice Ryzen 1800x rig for my dad, but it took black Friday and some luck to get the thing built for $1500.. these prices right now are ridiculous and have even gone up more in the last couple weeks.. If Sony can get a Ryzen based 8 or 9 TF machine out at a reasonable price and if these pc part prices stay high, could be another flash in the pan.
 

GNTsquid

Member
Oct 30, 2017
228
Chicago
Hell to the naw naw.

Even if by some amazing fluke the next gen looks better than a PC at launch, it wont last more than a few months because a console cant be upgraded. As soon as a new GPU/CPU is released for PC's the console tech becomes obsolete and inferior. Consoles will forever be playing catch up.

Maybe if a console comes up with a way to quick swap components in some sort of modular fashion, but at that point the line between a console and a PC will be blurred to where they're one and the same.