It would harm accessibility but TLOU 1/2 would get more acclaim for its gameplay if survivor was the only difficulty

[Lord Fanny]

A lot of people don't get what the OP is saying, if they even read the first page lol, but I actually did and I don't really agree tbh. I don't think the higher difficulty levels change the gameplay loop to such a degree that a lot of people would change their opinion in mass like that. I think the same people who don't care much for the gameplay itself wouldn't all of sudden care about it, and those that don't think it's great will think it's great just because it's harder. It's just not the highlight of these types of games for a lot of people, and honestly, that's okay. It's pretty basic overall, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Grimmi]

I'm playing on normal and it's sometimes too hard already. I just suck at shooting with a gamepad. If survivor was the only difficulty, I would not play it at all

 

[IDreamOfHime]

That's the most important thing about a good videogame. The acclaim! 🤩

 

[mogwai00]

Playing at Survivor without using Listen Mode and I agree, OP.

 

[matrix-cat]

I really enjoyed the first game on Survivor. I did it just this last week, replaying the PS4 remaster to get ready for TLOU 2. Ordinarily I'm not the kind of person to play a game like this on a harder difficulty, but I just sort of did it on a whim and actually had a great time with it. It's difficult, but not to the extent that I had to practice and bang my head against certain sections just to get through them; I felt like as long as I was playing smartly and carefully I could make pretty smooth progress through it.

That said, I'd already played through the game twice on Normal so I knew where I was going and I wasn't concerned with drinking in the atmosphere or engaging with the environmental storytelling like I am on my first playthrough of TLOU2. I'm playing on Moderate, and I like this level of difficulty for a first playthrough. I don't want to be worrying about exploring a whole area, finding every collectible and then dying before I hit a checkpoint and having to do the whole thing again, for example. I'll go into Survivor for a replay, but I wouldn't be interested in it on a first run.

 

[Penny Royal]

Even so I can't help but think playing on normal or even hard gimps a lot of the improvements in gameplay mechanics

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Not everyone is you, Mr Gaming God.

I'm playing on normal with aim assist options off, and it's basically stealth & melee first means bc I can't shoot for shit.

But for me the game is plenty challenging already, and I'm enjoying it thoroughly. I doubt I would be otherwise.

 

[Daggoth]

I recall enough complaints about the original TLOU (specifically, Clickers can one-shot you - what the hell) that taking this approach would alienate many players.

I played on Hard with the intent of doing a Survivor run afterwards, and felt the gameplay was pretty good on Hard - ran out of resources multiple times early on and had to improvise around it.

 

[jb1234]

I don't like stealth mechanics and so dropping the difficulty is the only way I'd enjoy the game.

 

[take_marsh]

I think this argument is incredibly silly. Critics would give it MORE praise because the game becomes more difficult and forces them to play an even more limited version of the game?

 

[Deleted member 1003]

Practice timing with Hanbei in the Dilapidated temple for couple of hours. Once it becomes muscle memory you'll instinctively start doing perfect parries. 90% of the enemies and bosses will fall easily if you can perfectly deflect all their attacks.

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Thanks! How can you tell the difference between needing to jump or duck? The symbols are both red.

 

[vbwh]

The difficulty settings and accessibility options absolutely need to stay. However, I played it on Survivor and while some encounters needed a few too many retries, overall I'm very glad I did. I'm fairly sure that the tension and general intensity of doing so was a particularly important factor in

Spoiler

helping me bond with/relate to Abby, which is obviously critical for the endgame to work as intended

. Unfortunately, the game actively discourages you from choosing it. I had recently finished TLOU1 on Grounded and I still hesitated when the menu warned me against Survivor.

 

[Metal Slugger]

nah I'm good with not playing any difficulty, thanks though

 

[Decarb]

Thanks! How can you tell the difference between needing to jump or duck? The symbols are both red.

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If the enemy winds his sword/spear across the body (usually right to left) then its going to be a swipe which you have to jump over. If he winds it on the same side, 9 out of 10 times its a stab which you can Mikiri counter. Almost all red symbol swipes in the game are backhanded, which makes them easier to spot.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Removing difficulty options is really silly, especially in a game that has difficulty sliders for different aspects of the game. That customization is super valuable.

I do conceed that there's a lot of games, perhaps TLoU included, that force much deeper engagement with their systems on harder difficulties, and a lot of players would appreciate them a lot more if they were nudged towards using them. This seems more like a messaging issue though - renaming the difficulties to something like "Very easy, easy, normal, hard" would shift the new default difficulty to the current "hard" mode (now renamed to normal), and that alone might be enough to get people to jump into the higher difficulties more. But Naughty Dog knows the main selling point for this game is the story, so they don't want the default settings to scare people off from experiencing it all, and I respect that.

 

[Shifty Capone]

As someone who is playing on Very Light or whatever the lowest difficulty is, this would be terrible for me. If survivor was the only option I wouldn't have bought the game. I would have just watched a play through on YouTube. I am playing the game and loving it. I don't play games like this for a challenge, I play to enjoy it. I love the options.

 

[TsuWave]

TLoU has always had great gameplay

 

[Love Machine]

Would the gameplay resonate more critically in an alternate world where survivor is the only difficulty and you had to deal with it?

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While I understand and applaud your intent (wanting people to appreciate TLOU2 even more), the suggestion basically stems from the idea that "stealth gameplay is fundamentally more engaging and rewarding than non-stealth." I don't think it would be a stretch to say that this statement is entirely subjective.

That's not to mention the fact that the "Default" settings are there for a reason. The designers of the game have to agree on what the core values of the game are, and what they want the player's experience to be. This is manifested as the default settings and these are playtested to make sure they align with the vision.

Also, who's to say that the people who play a game only once on normal don't get as much out of it as you? (Or more, for that matter.)

 

[flaxknuckles]

I don't see a point in that. Different people have different skill levels. For one person Easy mode might be as hard as Survival is for somebody else and both people end up getting a tense, grueling experience.

 

[Musubi]

I felt this way about Bioshock Infinite that game got trounced in some of the reviews for its "easy combat" but when I played on 1999 mode the combat of that game really changed how I experienced the whole game. With TOLU it seems like most come to it for the story I guess but there are a few people who have sung the praises of the Hard difficulty settings like Brad Shoemaker over at Giantbomb.

 

[Moist_Owlet]

the gameplay would be better if they got rid of the forced sections and let you tackle obstacles as you would like. Any section with insta-fail stealth or defend against waves of enemies suck hard

 

[Paperchampion23]

So I beat the game in hard and eventually want to play it again, should I play on survivor or modified hard difficulty? Any recommendations?

 

[Zedelima]

I played on light and i had a blast

dont know if i would enjoy it if was harder

 

[Cess007]

How much more acclaim do you want the game to have? xD

TLoU has always had great gameplay

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Also this. People saying TLOU1 had bad gameplay always confused me; because the gameplay alone was good enough to give us one of the best MP experience last gen.

 

[supernormal]

I think the developer should just have a description under the difficulty that describes the experience. Survivor or Grounded being something like the "true experience."

I planned on playing or survivor but the game recommended agaisnt it for my first run, so I played on hard and I loved the gameplay. Will definitely try on survivor for a second run.

 

[Bricktop]

The game is about 50% too long, as is. Making Survival the only option would just expose how much rehashing goes on in the second half.

 

[Z-Beat]

No it wouldn't. It's a narrative-driven game. The gameplay is solid but it isn't why people showed up

 

[Optional Objectives]

I literally said in the OP they made they right decision, that's not the point of the thread.

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You also said

Even so I can't help but think playing on normal or even hard gimps a lot of the improvements in gameplay mechanics and level design.

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so it's hard for me to think you take issues of accessibility all that seriously. There's some ableist language in your post, which you might think about. If nothing else, it sure distracts from and weakens the point you're trying to make.

I understand your main point - you feel that if the game was played on a higher difficulty setting, more players would be forced by design to explore all that it has to offer. However, there's nothing stopping players on lower difficulties from exploring the game in the way you suggest, and maybe they'd have a better time or arrive at a better understanding of the game if they did. It's fine to leave that as a suggestion, rather than forcing things by holding the game to a certain difficulty level.

Besides, difficulty levels don't exactly translate into making sure people experience a game in depth. Plenty of people cheese their way through Souls games, after all!

 

[Sprat]

I agree. Grounded or Survivor was the best way to play the original.

I feel that even survivor on part 2 is way too easy on comparison to the first game.

 

[Memento]

It is perfect on Hard for me.

I have never seen such an aggressive AI like this before. The enemies flank yoi from everywhere, constantly communicating with each other. It is insane. It feels like I am playing a next gen TPS.

 

[Deleted member 2254]

More acclaim than near perfect scores? And one of the reasons TLOU2 can be what it is has to do with the obscene amounts of sales Naughty Dog's games generate, which happens because they are accessible quality. And before someone says "but Dark Souls", TLOU2's launch sales make those multiplatform games pale in comparison.

Having less options is never a positive thing. You want the "true hardcore" experience? It's there, you can play it. No need to force it on others.

 

[Rocket Man]

I'm playing on hard and already having enough trouble with the human enemies and stealth. I don't want to play this on survivor lol

 

[Ænima]

I played the game on Normal, and unless u scavange every corner, u dont get that much resorces. And even when i was fully loaded of ammo, in some fights i ended up without bullets and needed to go back to melee and stealth.

Thers a boss fight that i actually got empty ammo in all my weapons and died alot of times untill i managed to kill it. I didnt want to repeat that fight in a harder dificulty.

I agree that the gameplay feels better if you are not fully loaded, but in this game u can play on Normal and choose to limit the resorces u going to find.

The great thing about the accessibility options of this game, is that u can fine tune it to the experience you want to have with it.

 

[Coi]

Yes... But no.
I mean, Survivor it's like playing a totally different (and better) game. The AI shines, combat and level design shines. Almost everything it's better.
But since TLOU2 it's more a story focused game, you just can't put a huge wall to people who just want to enjoy the story. That's not fair, specially after how accesible is the game.
It's not like Souls games who are sold, known and marketed as punishing and hard games.

 

[Hailinel]

I don't think that's what OP is saying. Rather, they understand that accessibility is important, but feel that survivor being the only mode would highlight the strengths of the gameplay and maybe lead to even higher scores. It's an interesting point. Conversely though, couldn't you argue that the game should be critically acclaimed due to the accessibility?

Not really one to read reviews, personally, but did any of the major publications call this out?

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The GameSpot reviewer in particular highlighted some accessibility options as eliminating the exasperating time of hunting for collectibles. It sounds like she'd have found the game less fun if that weren't an option.

 

[Sanka]

It might have gotten a better metacritic score that way. The current one shows that the game has a lot of flaws.

 

[J_Atlas]

Letting more people play a game > an aggregate number.

 

[MrKlaw]

It's a profoundly better experience on harder difficulties for sure, just like the first game. Resource scarcity encourages, and further rewards exploration, while enhancing the themes of survival in a world gone-to-shit. It also really highlights how open to creativity, strategy, and frantic improvisation combat encounters are – things that really doesn't come across on normal or easier difficulty since you can all but Gears of War your way through the game without thinking.

Beyond that, like every other horror game, it benefits greatly from the increased tension, anxiety, and stakes the threat of failure/death provide.

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I mean I guess this is a function of how good you are as a player too. If you're someone that likes playing on survivor, perhaps you're great at nailing headshots quickly with a controller so you can manage on limited ammo when the shit hits the fan. But maybe other players even on normal, find they are still requiring frantic improvisation and careful use of ammo as they can't hit a barn door at 10ft when they're panicking.

 

[leng jai]

You also said



so it's hard for me to think you take issues of accessibility all that seriously. There's some ableist language in your post, which you might think about. If nothing else, it sure distracts from and weakens the point you're trying to make.

I understand your main point - you feel that if the game was played on a higher difficulty setting, more players would be forced by design to explore all that it has to offer. However, there's nothing stopping players on lower difficulties from exploring the game in the way you suggest, and maybe they'd have a better time or arrive at a better understanding of the game if they did. It's fine to leave that as a suggestion, rather than forcing things by holding the game to a certain difficulty level.

Besides, difficulty levels don't exactly translate into making sure people experience a game in depth. Plenty of people cheese their way through Souls games, after all!

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As I've repeated several times in this thread I never actually said Naughty Dog should have actually released the game with no difficulty levels and only survIvor. I'm glad there's options for everyone but at the same time I think there are people who would enjoy it more if they tried harder difficulty. All I'm saying is I feel like the gameplay depth and systems might be given more praise if more people played it on the higher difficulties or at least tried. Really the only way to do this would in a hypothetical release where people didn't have a chance - I'm well aware that it would never happen because it doesn't make sense for this type of release. The first game had constant comments about how the gameplay was terrible and half the time it was people playing it on normal and treating the game like a TPS.

I said that the improvements were gimped on lower difficulties because the AI would have lower aggression, flank less, have worse perception and field of view. It goes without saying that you can do or engage with everything at any difficulty but it's common sense that the stealth improvements are less likely to be taken advantage taking less damage and stocked up with supplies constantly. People are more likely to adapt if they're actually forced to rather than for the sake of it.

 

[ethranes]

 

[Axon]

Eh. This is a game about experiencing a story. The story should be as accessible as it needs to be for a person to get through it.

Putting up a bunch of artificial roadblocks just for the sake of difficulty doesn't make sense. This isn't a Souls game where the difficulty is the point, it's a narrative game.

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Difficulty can, and ideally should be, part of the narrative. And you got Souls in reverse. The difficulty in those games is there to support the point, which is the narrative.

 

[Aprikurt]

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Gatekeeping bullshit

 

[MrKlaw]

As I've repeated several times in this thread I never actually said Naughty Dog should have actually released the game with no difficulty levels and only survIvor. I'm glad there's options for everyone but at the same time I think there are people who would enjoy it more if they tried harder difficulty. All I'm saying is I feel like the gameplay depth and systems might be given more praise if more people played it on the higher difficulties or at least tried.

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this is a very reasonable comment but the title and even OP don't really say it so clearly.

Perhaps ND could have reached out to some reviewers to ask them to try harder difficulty levels - either during main review or as a follow up, and some sites could do articles recommending people try that - with examples of how it affects gameplay? But its an almost impossible thing to square off - providing a huge amount of accessibility means you aren't dictating terms, and its up to the community to perhaps push for certain play styles (like you're doing)

 

[MidnightCowboy]

Playing Survivor as well, it's quite easily one of the best stealth games I've ever played. The combat arenas are a joy, there are so many different points of entry thanks to world class level design, and with the improved enemy AI it really makes you think about every move you make. I understand the slow, tactical approach won't appeal to everyone, but I hate steamrolling through encounters. After this game, I don't see how anyone can claim Naughty Dog doesn't prioritize gameplay with a straight face.

 

[Igorth]

No thanks, I play on normal and I even died once or twice, I will play on survivor on my second playthrough thou but I want to be able to choose, and my GF only wants to play just for the story so an easy mode is perfect for her as a choice.

 

[Patitoloco]

Hell no OP.

Survivor is fun.
It's also fun to not be frustrated if you don't want to.

Give every game options.

 

[Elephant]

No, you're taking what resonates with you and thinking that applies to everyone. The accessibility options means that everyone can tailor this game to whatever is the perfect fit for them as an individual and get the most out of their experience. The best bit being they can change it on the fly and they're not locked into whatever experience they're having with the game from what they selected before they even started playing. So technically everyone should be playing this in their own way which is perfect for them, resulting in higher acclaim than being locked to something.

 

[Banzai]

I was wondering, did anyone on a difficulty below Survivor ever run from a fight? On survivor I'm super happy when I get through an encounter without using any resources, so often times I just run and it made for some pretty awesome chase sequences.

 

[MrKlaw]

I was wondering, did anyone on a difficulty below Survivor ever run from a fight? On survivor I'm super happy when I get through an encounter without using any resources, so often times I just run and it made for some pretty awesome chase sequences.

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I'll still run when swamped by enemies - very easy to die even on lower difficulties if that happens, but I'll run somewhere else in the location and re-engage. I never ran completely from a location, in fact I always made sure to fully mop up :)

 

[Dphex]

Give every game options.

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nope, not every game needs options especially not what it is meant to be a challenging game. the whole From Soft catalogue is beloved for what they are, they don´t have options and they are successful. either you say "challenge accepted!" or "nope, not for me". and thats fine as it is.

 

[Patitoloco]

nope, not every game needs options especially not what it is meant to be a challenging game.

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IMO Nope.