To see all of the content the generation provides. I'd personally do if I wasn't strapped for cash at the moment.
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Jim Sterling: Pokémon's Business Model Has Always Been Trash
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
I don't really get why so many people talk about trading being a core aspect of the franchise. Like if they really cared about player interaction they could have made better online features. And version exclusive mons/trade evolutions are pretty damn rare in Sword and Shield. If they really gave a Trubbish about having experiences with your friends they would've made a co op mode without needing a dang dlc. I complained about how the new batch of old mons added via a free update were all only reserved to trading with people owning the dlc and most people told me this argument about how trading is a "core" aspect of Pokemon but nah, I won't buy it.
If you say the trading model was always shit, than you include you know, the games from the 90ties. Not exclusively the games from 2020(?)
I think calling them 2 "different" versions is always been a bit disgenious. I mean they are not anyone's friends and business is business. But I always thought it would be more interesting and cooler if one version but each save has a unqiue random seed generated when you start the game that determined how scarce of pokemon you encounter
GF doesn't design around the crazies
The double pack exists following popular demand for parents with several kids buying both versions.
It's still less than 20% of the overall market in Japan for example and doesn't look to be wildly different in the other regions
It's actually astonishing to me that people take that at face value. This is the same series that routinely releases third and sometimes fourth versions of the same game at full price with minimal changes just a year after the OG release, preying on the same people who bought the first entry and yet don't want to miss out on extras.
Yet it's inconceivable that the dual releases to start each generation are primarily a monetization tactic.
No, the gacha whale comparison is not invalid just because they're different genres and scales—it's the same corporate mindset.
Afaik only for keyboard enabled dlc
But tbh most people upgraded to the latest engine
RB4 had a grace period and then you had to rebuy your whole dlc collection but beeing system forward thinking was prety nice of them, even if it was shortlived
Expecting Game Freak made these games in the 90s, knowing that all Americans would not just buy one, but two of their games, is slightly more crazy.
It was for every piece of RB3 DLC, regardless of keys being present. They changed formats in a way that previous games couldn't read.
It's really not, gacha tactics are bad because you can spend over $10000 in in-game currency and not get what you want (like FGO with their 0.7% rate up), here it's a know fact that you only need to buy one game and the rest can be gotten via trading
They talk about it so much because it IS core, its the basis for which the series is based off of, millions of people trade and there are entire communities that are built off of trading, its not some niche thing. Its most likely the reaason pokemon, a JRPG in that usually dont sell more than 2 or 3 million tops in the west, sells like it does.
you said what i wanted to say in a better and more developed way. Its the mindset behind gacha aka make as much cash as you can and hope lowest denominator (aka like a whale) will buy everything up when most people wont.
The only other game that I can think of that did something similar to this (but was cheaper and in a specific case) was Fire Emblem fates where if you had both games physically, the dlc would have to be bought twice (like map packs and such)
I remember having Pokemon Yellow and my friends had Blue or Red, then one day someone came and said there was a code/combination that if you did once the game boots it would transform into another version... But then after doing the code it would only change some menu colors (to match from those different versions LOL), not actually change to another version. That was the last Pokemon I played till the end, only tried the latest 3DS game but after playing almost 8 hours I was still in the 'tutorial' phase and I just got pissed and gave up.
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Err that doesn't actually fix the problem at all what are you talking about? If the game is locked once
There's no random elements in this, you can't spend your life savings on this or be monetarily dependent on this game. There are better ways to get your point across than simply compare things to the worst example possible in your mind.
Err that doesn't actually fix the problem at all what are you talking about? If the game is locked once
Let's not devalue the problem of companies adding gambling mechanics to games targeted at young children because you don't like games sale or fixed dlc practices.
There's no random elements in this, you can't spend your life savings on this or be monetarily dependent on this game. There are better ways to get your point across than simply compare things to the worst example possible in your mind.
Yep. There isn't a valid reason to get both for yourself. So the DLC thing isn't a problem.
You guys are using hindsight(diplomatically said) to what would require remarkable foresight on Game Freaks part. Its a bizarre hill to die on.
This is kind of disingenuous. If this was the most accurate truth then Nintendo wouldn't have apologized to Pokémon fans at E3 2 years ago when fans expected a hardcore game in the fall and got LGPE instead. They told them to wait 1 more year. If they didn't care about the desires of their adult community they wouldn't hold championship leagues (kids go to them, but so do adults), hold PR events and media for people to consume, etc. They would just release games and not give a shit what the player is enjoying or not.
It's fairly telling that the question of 'why are they charging for two expansion packs then if not to make money?' is being swerved.
This is however much better than the third version which was always a con, especially for UltraSun/Moon
This is however much better than the third version which was always a con, especially for UltraSun/Moon
(1) I didn't initiate the comparison. (2) I specifically said they were on different scales.
Monetization can be exploitative without being infinite. The Pokemon brand is a business, and absolutely capitalizes on the people who buy both versions, just as much as it has capitalized on the people and parents who would buy third versions at full price with minimal changes in the past.
They can say it isn't intended all they want, but they are a corporation and it's absolutely intended—look at how strict a moneymaking timetable the brand is on.
Jim is correct both in his positive and negative assessments. It is a positive that they've moved toward DLC rather than full price additional releases, but they need to stop the multiple versions altogether. There are myriad ways they could provide the same socializing effect for free.
Jim telling it like it is.
Does he do any more of his King Robert in this? That shit was hi-larious.
Does he do any more of his King Robert in this? That shit was hi-larious.
It's what makes the business model even worse. Yes, they release two versions of the same game, but it's pretty much the same game anyway. Even the sequels!
When is Pokemon going to be like the movies. That's the sequel I've been waiting for 20 years now. Pokemon doing their thing in the bushes and you can see it.
Pokemon Snap built into normal Pokemon.
I thought there was hope after Pokemon Stadium but it just kept looking like the exact same thing - and it's a huge thing to collect all those Pokemon, it took hours and you want me to do it again just because the roster changed?
Then there was finally "3D" Pokemon but it was still not close to being like the UE4 dream but more like a budget indie game. Sorry, but the standards are too low. They had the excuse of being on a handheld but now that's pretty much over. Speed up the progress.
Make a UE4 Pokemon, single game. At that point you can add DLC expansions, no one would have an issue.
The whole "it's about trading with your friends!" argument is the most brilliant part of the scam. People believe it, people parrot it, and people criticize those who don't "get" that perspective. They can keep releasing multiple versions of the game and re-releases with slight changes and diehards will form a phalanx around Game Freak any time somebody says "hey, this isn't right".
That's something that stuck out to me as well. I'm surprised they didn't just make it one purchase for both.
I understand the anger, but releasing a second improved version, built upon your previous game is a fairly standard business model and not particular a Pokemon exclusively con. Pokemon was just more successful with it aka there was market demand.
It's all about trading, maaaan. Bringing people together, maannn. Together we can catch them ALL
Nah, it's a shitty practice, I'm not defending that as a concept. The pass should work with both.
Precisely that, yeah.
Trying to paint the individual charges of the expansion pass as super greedy is weird, sure it is greedy but it is something that can be easily ignored, and still less than buying both US and UM. GF has problems but trying to focus on this move is starting to look like some people just want to find something to complain.
I was always OK with the 2 versions thing. It exists for a good reason (to get kids to interact with one another) and it's fun to hunt down those last few pokemon missing from your Dex.
I got skeptical, though, when Pokemon Black 2/White 2 released. I bought one of them and was like "wait isn't this the same game I already played with I played Black/White? I bought Y, and I bought Sun, but when they did the same thing with Ultra Sun/Moon I was like "OK guys.... you really doing this?"
I am not surprised in the least that they held onto all those extra pokemon to release DLC. HOWEVER, I do like that they are doing this instead of making you buy another full priced game again, and that it's proper DLC with new areas and story and not just more pokemon. It's a good middle road between one release/no DLC and the traditional "Buy it now because you're impatient and then pay full price again when we release the "complete" edition." I am OK with this.
I got skeptical, though, when Pokemon Black 2/White 2 released. I bought one of them and was like "wait isn't this the same game I already played with I played Black/White? I bought Y, and I bought Sun, but when they did the same thing with Ultra Sun/Moon I was like "OK guys.... you really doing this?"
I am not surprised in the least that they held onto all those extra pokemon to release DLC. HOWEVER, I do like that they are doing this instead of making you buy another full priced game again, and that it's proper DLC with new areas and story and not just more pokemon. It's a good middle road between one release/no DLC and the traditional "Buy it now because you're impatient and then pay full price again when we release the "complete" edition." I am OK with this.
Buy a single "Expansion Pass" and you get access to both a Sword and Shield pass. Simple. The current model only serves to nickel and dime people with both versions.
We as a household buy both versions - my wife is playing Shield and I am playing Sword. As an individual though I could never see buying both.
no, not since arguably the DS games as well since online trading became a thing
I honestly can only think of a single example in the last decade of a game releasing an upgraded version of the original game on the same console, for the same price, and that's Persona 5 R which rightfully gets the same shit. Most games have gone for GOTY editions since the PS360 era instead.
And that doesn't answer the question of why they are doing this if not for money.
I own every English main series Pokemon game since red and blue the last one I finished was sun that's all on me.
Are there things with this franchise I'd do differently? Definitely. Is dlc better than a 3rd version? Always.
If you bought sun but not ultra sun you had no way to get any of the new Pokemon and If you did buy it you had effectively the same game twice with dlc it's completely optional and freely compatible.
if people don't want to buy more that's fine and understandable as far as the buisaness model goes that's just as much on the consumer who has proven it's viable for one of the biggest franchises out there.
Are there things with this franchise I'd do differently? Definitely. Is dlc better than a 3rd version? Always.
If you bought sun but not ultra sun you had no way to get any of the new Pokemon and If you did buy it you had effectively the same game twice with dlc it's completely optional and freely compatible.
if people don't want to buy more that's fine and understandable as far as the buisaness model goes that's just as much on the consumer who has proven it's viable for one of the biggest franchises out there.
I think what's holding Pokémon back is the yearly releases more than anything, they are not on portable systems anymore and they really need more time to polish those games so we won't have stuff like dexit.
All business is exploitative it's how companies maximize their profits, there's a difference however between a business charging more for a product than what you feel it's worth which is what this argue comes down to and a business preying on compulsive or easily impressionable mindsets using random odds to lead to uncapped spending for a given product.
The business model is completely different and comparing them as the similar is a disservice to the damage the latter does. Noone is going to become homeless or get into serious monetary debts based on the practice we're talking about here.
Of course they released Yellow back in the day to cash in on the success of Pokemon and Pikachu in particular. And than figured it might be worth it trying it again. Of course. And of course that is simply a business move. I just can't manage to get overly worked up over it.
why sell it once if you can sell it twice and people will buy it.
Actually make it 4 times.
You still actually believe this, huh? It's literally nothing more than a money grab.
Exactly. 2 versions works for them because it brings easy money and makes their game social. Sure they could make their game social with other methods but it would bring less revenue and be less effective at being social than the thing they have been doing for 2 decades.
The easy fix for that is showing the other pass as "purchased" when you buy one. The eShop supports such a feature.
Just because something exists primarily to make money doesnt mean it doesnt have another purpose. Games primarily exist to make money to begin with
Buying blue/red, gold/silver, rubin/sapphire, diamond/pearl, black/white, x/y, sun/moon and sword/shield and getting burned out by that is kinda on you.