How am I being deflective? He did bad shit and good shit. Like most politicians. Saying rest in piss is juvenile. Don't know how that is deflective.
John McCain has died at age 81 (READ OP)
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How am I being deflective? He did bad shit and good shit. Like most politicians. Saying rest in piss is juvenile. Don't know how that is deflective.
Well, am I incorrect to assume people dislike John McCain because of lives lost from his decisions? How is that any different than someone within your party doing the same? It's not a "both sides" its simply the truth.
I think this thread and the other thread have certainly illuminated for me the very real and problematic issues with McCain's legacy, namely those issues related to his policies that have hurt minorities, LGBT, and other marginalized groups, as well as his steadfast support for the human tragedy that was the Iraq War. I think maybe where some people have been maybe taken aback is the sentiment that McCain was some sort of walking embodiment of evil per se. The dude certainly was far, far from great when it came to came to his policy and social views, as well as his personal life (marriages), but there were some instances where he did good things right? Maybe that's more of a broken clock is right twice a day thing though. Stuff I can think of is stuff like his efforts to reform campaign finance laws and him voluntarily staying in captivity rather being allowed to be released early as a POW. I mean look at people like Ted Kennedy. We idolize him on the left for his work on health care and in the senate, but at the same time he also got drunk and let a woman drown in his car after driving off a bridge. JFK is another example. He's seen as almost a demigod or a proto-Obama of sorts, yet actively hampered the civil rights movement, i.e., he thought change should come more slowly. Johnson on the other hand was reviled for his handling of the Vietnam War and was mostly certainly a "good old boy" but was instrumental in getting the voting rights act passed. Obama is my favorite president, but it's also hard for me to reconcile my respect for him with his administration's use of drone strikes. People are complex as fuck and are capable of both good and evil. Seeing as he just died, I just think people should be afforded some time to take stock of his legacy before reaching hard conclusions. I think that's why we are seeing in one breath people calling McCain a hero and at the time some others calling him a war mongerer/racist, etc. The truth is probably somewhere in between.
This is gonna be the case for most US politicians. Congress deals with these issues. It's part of the job. Defense, the environment, trade, foreign policy, and so on.
Even Obama doesn't have his clean slate in terms of bodycounts since he was Commander and Chief for 8 years.
It's been mentioned a bunch earlier in this thread. He really disliked Trump. He's done some good along with bad. Like most people. We're going around acting like we aren't flawed now.
Some of you are so close to coming to the realization that almost every single person in Congress is absolutely awful when it comes to foreign policy.
He's done a lot of bad and the good mostly came from his incessant flip-flopping on issues such as people's civil rights.
Pointing out 'liberal hypocrisy' is hardly an argument.
And I agree with you - It's juvenile. So what? Big deal. It's hardly going to destroy someone's life unlike policies he stood for and voted on. And that's why people say these things. Humans are emotional beings.
This argument only makes sense if you consider both parties equally harmful and ignore McCain's personal words, actions, and blatant racism.
Would you rather someone be able to be persuade for civil rights or just call it flip flopping? I don't understand how he can do something good and you react to it negatively by saying its "incessant flip-flopping."
McCain was hardly perfect, but he was a veteran and a genuine patriot of the USA, and frankly cancer is a terrible way to go, so condolences to his friends and family.
This might be a crass to mention, but the issue over his seat is gonna be significantly more complicated than a special election popping up.
This might be a crass to mention, but the issue over his seat is gonna be significantly more complicated than a special election popping up.
Yeah, I'm not gonna cheer for the guy's death, he had it pretty rough by the end of his life because cancer is a bitch, but I'm not crying for him either. His actions as a politician have led to many innocent deaths. He was one of the biggest war hawks in the government.
Not really. You're accosting members for "being hypocrites" while you're in other threads enjoying entertainment from people who are very clearly racist, sexist, or otherwise just downright awful people (while suggesting people who don't like them are just "yelling at clouds").
It just looks a lot like you're in here to stir the pot rather than have any real discourse. That's all.
Because I watched him go back and forth playing putty with my rights as a gay man and still, many years later, never becoming an ally. He should have been on the right side of history over a decade ago. His pro-life bullshit, warmongering, and historic racism are also a delight.
His "good" is limited to one brief moment defending Obama (and still insinuating being a Muslim is an insult) and voting not to repeal ACA (a bill he wanted to destroy) so that it could be destroyed in a worse fashion later.
I think we can all come together and agree that a rich old white man died today and it's possible that the global and local influence of the united states of america has changed because of it.
If you need to be persuaded for civil rights in the goddamn 90s then they shouldn't be in office.
He seemed pretty upset with the no vote:
https://www.newsweek.com/obamacare-repeal-donald-trump-john-mccain-643200
While there is no defense of his use of the slur back in 2000, John McCain also was a central figure in normalizing relations with Vietnam which helped in part pull tens of millions from poverty in that country over the past several decades. He fought his entire career against the racist anti immigrant policies of tge GOP and championed compassionate policies which offered a path to citizenship. It is also taken for granted now, but he truly did his best through the 2008 to buffer the racism in his party against Obama to include personally defending him several times against attacks on his race. This seems basic, but as proven over time it really does not go without saying. He also adopted his South Asian daughter which was famously used against him in racist cold calls during his campaign.
The way this forum talks about McCain is ignorant as hell and I am honestly disgusted by it. I strongly disagreed and have been disappointed with him numerous times but he was not some monster and seeing him characterized as such by some here is deeply offensive and reveals just how poorly informed the discourse here on Resetera truly is.
The way this forum talks about McCain is ignorant as hell and I am honestly disgusted by it. I strongly disagreed and have been disappointed with him numerous times but he was not some monster and seeing him characterized as such by some here is deeply offensive and reveals just how poorly informed the discourse here on Resetera truly is.
If you disliked someone on the opposite isle who was willing to come between and discuss with the other party...I got bad news for you. That probably died with him and we're going to have to deal with people who think its A OK to try to build actual walls and put children in cages.
This thread is a dumpster fire showcasing the worst of Era
I'm looking forward to Obama's eulogy.
Lionizing him for his weak-willed attempts at bipartisanship is laughable. He also chose not to resign, forcing no special election for his seat so that it could be filled by a Trump supporter.
Again, you would rather deal with someone that refuses to see your point of view than a person who can be sympathetic and have his/her mind changed?
Now you know what it's like to be a woman or minority here.
McCain throughout his life did much, much more evil than good. Not liking Trump doesn't change this at all.
Did he switch parties? Did he start voting inordinately against the Republican platform?
Oh no no he didn't
Here's an example of him being a monster: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/15/mccain-mockingly-suggests_n_135072.html
It's not laughable because we aren't getting that type of shit again. That's what is laughable in a very sad way.
I rather deal with the person whoknows civil rights is a right. I mean the man was a republican which one of the key points minorities, women, and the poor.
I don't like Trump and I'm a terrible no good very bad asshole, it's very relatable.
We weren't going to get it regardless if McCain lived longer. It wasn't like he was some last bastion against the devolution of American politics. It has been a downhill slope since 2008, if not longer.
What do you think running with Sarah Palin and putting the Tea Party front and center did in terms of normalizing extreme right wing philosophies and politicians?
Never said he did such a thing. People don't just throw their party out the window, but some can actually step out of their isle and have a discussion, which is something he tended to do. Hence, all the democrat love today. That's gone now. I can't think of 1 other person across the isle like him. That's why I'm so pissed right now at these comments. It's like some of ya'll don't understand. It's full on Trump type of people here on out.
1. Look at any of my posts, I've very clearly tried to engage and understand other's arguments
2. Your explanation is ridiculous, entertainment is not the same reality but even so, show me the receipts of Youtubers destroying thousands of lives and I'll renounce them to
Voted against Civil Rights Bill 1990
Voted against MLK day
His 2008 election comment is racist, it implies "Arabs" cant be "good and family men"
His actions speak pretty loud. But yeh everyone else is so uninformed
Yeah no, any person being reasonable can see it's obvious that wasn't what he was implying.
I think for minorities the difference between the McCain GOP and the Trump GOP is one of tone not substance.
I disagree. He was one of the last old school republicans that had respect for the opposite party in some degree.
Sarah Palin wasn't his choice and that's been stated a ton throughout this thread. That was shoved down his throat by the GOP. He wanted Lieberman.
He could have actually said no. He could have refused.
Palin allowed him to play Bon Cop Bad Cop
He was also a rich man who voted for the best interests of rich people so that he could continue to get richer while millions died in foreign countries he couldn't give less than a fuck about
Given his position on bombing the shit out of the Middle East, and the context of the full quote... it is actually a valid reading of what he said.
Would have been nice if a person with his platform and influence took that woman to task for what she was spewing and smacked down that rhetoric in a clear and forceful way, instead of effectively treating her like his grandma who had one too many wine coolers at Thanksgiving.
But he needed her vote so...
Old school Republicans were the party of Reagan and the Bushes lol...
Watching Jeff Cannata lose his shit at people not agreeing with him about McCain has been entertaining and sad.
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