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Josh Brolin's Thanos vs. Heath Ledger's Joker (IW Spoilers)
- Thread starter Deepwater
- Start date
For the record, the thought crossed my mind LOL... but then I was like, okay no I can't pull it off.
This is a well articulated way of putting thanos' positives. I think he succeeds more than Vader too despite facing such daunting opposition. The scene with gamora pushes him over ledger imo. The one bad thing about joker was he wasn't given as much opportunity for range. I think thanos had more variance in his writing which even if he had a singular goal he never felt repetitive like ledger was at times
There's a difference between authenticity and realism. I don't think more realism is automatically a point for that performance
Yes, which goes back to my initial reaction: all of this is just our opinions going around, nothing is set in stone
Josh is Marvel's best villain. Keaton's vulture is right behind that.
But Heath is still the goat
But Heath is still the goat
I love Brolin but not even close. Not even in the same league. Heath Ledger transformed into a completely new person for his role. Brolin was just being Brolin
There is no way.
Please tell me one scene that shows amazing acting chops for Brolin in this movie. I think everyone is just so used to the villains being so awful in the MCU world
There is no way.
Please tell me one scene that shows amazing acting chops for Brolin in this movie. I think everyone is just so used to the villains being so awful in the MCU world
Doesn't sound insane to me.
Being a great villain isn't always about depth. Vader has a better design, a better voice, a better screen presence, everything about him is insane secret episode final boss tier that commands respect. He isn't just iconic because lolstarwars. That Rogue One scene is proof how hindered he was by the product of time.
Took Thanos killing 10+ heroes to get the same clout
Thanos is my favorite MCU villain, like no contest, but the Joker in Dark Knight is one of the most iconic villains ever, and probably the most iconic of any superhero film. Heath Ledger was born for that character.
There is no world where Brolin as Thanos is a better role than Ledger as Joker.
Like...Thanos is a better written character than the Joker, but Ledger acts the fuck out of that role and makes it truly terrifying as a villain and pure joy to watch. Thanos is much more complex as a character and Brolin nails it, but to simply have this discussion is as much honor as it should get in comparison.
Like...Thanos is a better written character than the Joker, but Ledger acts the fuck out of that role and makes it truly terrifying as a villain and pure joy to watch. Thanos is much more complex as a character and Brolin nails it, but to simply have this discussion is as much honor as it should get in comparison.
Vader is a cinematic and cultural icon
Vader set the stage for all that came after
Absolutely none of this is true.
Why are you lying on the Internet?
Of course he is.
Thanos is also a better villain. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
Eh
Are we talking OT Vader or Vader as a whole?
Thanos has better motivations than OT Vader but I wouldnt consider him to be a better Villain, Vader does what he meant to do perfectly and cant be outclassed. Vader as a whole though has far more depth and personality than MCU Thanos
Thanos was great but he only sticks out because MCU has a laundry list of forgettable villians.
He's still top 10 either way. Ledger is distant #1 though. I'm pretty sure it will never be topped.
He's still top 10 either way. Ledger is distant #1 though. I'm pretty sure it will never be topped.
The most iconic performance of the 2000s vs a pretty good mo cap performance
Yeah, it's Ledger hands down
Yeah, it's Ledger hands down
I know it's very good. It's also overrated. That's a comment on the people praising it, not the performance itself.
Seriously.
Ledgers Joker is pure magic to watch. Spell binding.
Thanos was good for a blockbuster movie with "bruce willis ballchin" going through the back of your head.
Joker wins this out for me. Thanos is somewhat intimidating sure, but Ledger's Joker is downright dreadful.
You can't tell other people are lying for their opinions that Vader for some is a better villain than Thanos, that's very rude and condescending.
Thank you.
Thanos was good but not amazing. There was nowhere near the range that Ledger put out
Same goes for Killmonger and MBJ's lame subpar performance in BP.
You know thatracting range means that the actor exhibits a number of characteristics and emotions across a wide spectrum right? Not just one thing the whole time.
Also MBJ's Killmonger was great, not perfect or defining, but still great.
Yes? And I thought Thanos was very lacking in that department.
Killmonger on paper was good, I wasn't convinced by MBJ in it and I usually love the guy. He just doesn't work as a villain imo. I know I'm in the minority in that one though
Lolwut
MCU Thanos has one film to his name where he's actually a character.
Vader has 6 films and a 5 season TV show that flesh him out as a character from his childhood to his death and everything in between.
MCU Thanos is 1/100th of the character Vader is.
I mean sure, but Ledger's Joker doesn't really have any range either. Of all the comparisons to make between the two I find that to be the weakest. At least Thanos showed some emotion and reluctance. You cant really say the same for Ledger. Which is mo fault of the performance but more so how the character was written.
Yeah, you're right.
Vader has gravitas, is purely intimidating, has an iconic design, trancends the medium, the single most iconic line in cinema, one of the most iconic redemption arcs in cinema and got to be in both the single most popular franchise but also one of the greatest films of all time. And then a whole trilogy of films made purely to show his fall from grace.
Thanos has misguided ideals and gets to be in infinity war.
What makes a great villain isn't about an understandable point of view or being sympathetic. Not to say those traits can't be iconic. Its about working as a foil to your protagonist(s) and working as a force to halt the progression and advancements of the protagonist(s).
Vader is a perfect foil to Luke, Han, Leia and Obi Wan and pretty much wrote the book to being an incredible villain before the pen hit the paper for the original Infinity Gauntlet comic book and had it not been for Vader, you wouldn't be seeing characters like Thanos who conceptually borrows a lot from Vader.
Vader isn't a deep villain, up until ROTJ he's pretty one note and cold. But that's exactly what makes him so good, is that he works as a perfect foil to the pure hearted Luke Skywalker, his unrelenting focus allows him to capture Han, and his lack of fear to strike down his old mentor in cold blood. Hes the unstoppable force to the immoveable object of morality driven Luke. He's a simple villain, and its easy to make a simple villain work rather than attempting to create a complex one. You can poke holes in Thanos' logic, at which point his motivations start to fall apart, and because he's played as sympathetic it starts to come off as silly and illogical. Vader doesn't do what he does in a misguided attempt to sace the universe, he's driven by his own internal logic that doesn't need much explanation because it's hardly relevant to the story being told. He's an icon of an authoritarian regime, the enforcer of the empire and master of the dark side of the force. He'ssa symbol of opposition to everything the heroes stand for and that's why Vader is the perfect villain. He's simple, effective and does the job well.
And that's even ignoring Anakin. To imply that Thanos has more character simply because he displays a slightly wider arrange of emotions is ridiculous. The few lines Vader speaks, he owns, nothing feels unearned and he dominates every scene hes in with an unmatchable swagger. 40 years later his lines are still quotable and he's already proven the test of time. History has remembered Vader for a reason.
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Thanos has more.
Thanos is more.
That is true, but only because of time. And that doesn't necessarily make you a better villain.
I have to disagree with this. Vader is pure summer blockbuster: cheesy, campy, and unrealistic. None of those things make him bad though. Vader does all of those things very well. But in no way does he "transcend the medium." If anything, Thanos does. I've never seen another villain do what he's done before in film. He breaks the notion of what a conventional movie villain is supposed to be capable of.
Isn't relevant to the current topic.
Again, with this word "iconic." As if that's some infallible indicator of quality. How iconic is Anton Chigurh? The wife from Gone Girl? Lil Ze? And besides, Vader never had a "redemption" arc. Killing the Emperor isn't enough to absolve him of all the heinous things he's done. It was a step in the right direction, yes, but not redemption. Just one last good act before dying. And why would being redeemed make you a better villain, anyway? It can maybe indicate that the former villain had some internal conflict, but that doesn't inherently make for a more compelling villain.
Again, irrelevant to the discussion.
...No.
And we sure saw how excellent those films were.
Right, because villains are supposed to be rightly-guided. But hey, from Vader's point of view the Jedi were evil. Who am I to tell him wrong?
And if Vader were ever so lucky to be in Infinity War, he'd be one of Thanos' underlings. Maybe a tad beneath Squidward in rank.
I'm loving that people are using prequel Anakin development for justifying why Vader is a better character after years of people saying the prequels ruined Vader as a villain.
It feels like ironic justice, and it wouldn't have been possible if the new best movie villain, Thanos, didn't change the game. ;P
It feels like ironic justice, and it wouldn't have been possible if the new best movie villain, Thanos, didn't change the game. ;P
Ledger did an amazing job of being a terrifying psychopath. Brolin brought an incredible range of emotions to his portrayal of Thanos. I'm not going to say Thanos was the better acting job, but I don't think it's fair to say that it's not even in the same league as Ledger's Joker mostly because it was so one-note.
Brolin was either angry or angry-serious for 95% of the movie. Ledgers joker had incredible range. Just because it was within a shell of a psychopath doesn't make it one note.
Not in the same league. Like we're talking minors vs the majors. Not among one actors circle anywhere on the planet right now is anyone walking out of the Avengers and thinking "Brolin really did some of the most iconic villain work of all time in this". You are all confusing the fact that you liked his performance and enjoyed that he was for the first time a well rounded villain that wasn't one note. He is the best villain in the MCU for sure hands down and he did a great job but lets not get crazy.
Brolin's Thanos is everything you could want in a fearsome and sympathetic villain. However, the focused nature of his role in the massive ensemble story of Infinity War put more constraints on his expressive range than Heath Ledger's Joker, who had free play in an open-ended game with Batman and his city.
Thanos wants a set of items for a specific purpose. The Joker wants to tear down society's civilized veneer and prove a point by corrupting its greatest defenders. The Joker had more leeway and better opportunities to run wild, and Ledger pressed those advantages to the absolute limit with his darkly comic, charismatic take on the character.
Additionally, Infinity War would be perfectly watchable if Brolin or even Thanos were traded out for someone else. Ledger's Joker makes TDK. You wouldn't have a movie without that performance.
Thanos wants a set of items for a specific purpose. The Joker wants to tear down society's civilized veneer and prove a point by corrupting its greatest defenders. The Joker had more leeway and better opportunities to run wild, and Ledger pressed those advantages to the absolute limit with his darkly comic, charismatic take on the character.
Additionally, Infinity War would be perfectly watchable if Brolin or even Thanos were traded out for someone else. Ledger's Joker makes TDK. You wouldn't have a movie without that performance.