Yup, they just set precedent today, welcome to the new world of vigilante murders everywhere!! I think there was another school shooting also :(So if an armed Proud Boys protest gathers the state over, I can show up with an AR-15, provoke people, and then murder them when they respond to my provocation and get away with it? Am I understanding this correctly?
Trump was the REAL geniusBiden is stupid. Peaceful protest gets you a side section on page 6 of the news and ignored. Violence has been the only way to get law and government enforcement attention for any kind of change these days...
There are many things that are morally wrong that shouldn't be illegal IMO, things like adultery for exampleI say this as a lawyer: if your answer is "this was the legally correct outcome but was also morally wrong," then there is a problem with the laws and the justice system itself.
There is no ethical value in being technically correct.
Yeah but driving across state line with an illegal firearm to shoot up a civil rights protest probably should be illegal.There are many things that are morally wrong that shouldn't be illegal IMO, adultery for example
Yeah, good point. You said it better than I did. Mostly just trying to state that "it was technically self-defense but was still wrong" is an unhelpful part of the conversation and that, if that is someone's argument, examining whether the conduct SHOULD be criminalized is important too. If THAT answer is yes, then the entire system needs to be changed.There are many things that are morally wrong that shouldn't be illegal IMO, things like adultery for example
Not saying its the case here, but there's many cases where I would say that and not think there's a problem with the laws
I mean at this point they're basically daring people to do it.His second statement is wrong. Rioting does have a place in a democracy.
I mean at this point they're basically daring people to do it.
The right always fantasize about murdering their political enemies.This tweet is sarcasm, it has to be??
It's not?! WTF
Gun owners of the US, of course.
I think the discussion for some people is not if he was wrong, but how you convict someone legally when the laws allow such unethical actions?I say this as a lawyer: if your answer is "this was the legally correct outcome but was also morally wrong," then there is a problem with the laws and the justice system itself.
There is no ethical value in being technically correct.
I mean, I'm gonna be honest. Laws don't really matter when it comes to ethics, by which I mean the laws are just a reflection of what governments and those who control them find important, which in turn isn't equivalent to what is just. The laws of a country that routinely and consciously results in favorable outcomes for white people just because they're white are frankly not worth respecting. So like...who the fuck cares if the jury would've had to have subverted "the system" to put Kyle away? Why are we acting like the American judicial system, a system that for hundreds of years was like "yeah slavery's cool", deserves such a veneer of legitimacy that anyone has to be okay with the results it spits out from its algorithms?I think the discussion for some people is not if he was wrong, but how you convict someone legally when the laws allow such unethical actions?
Of course we would rightly point that it happens to black people all the time, but this is often a miscarriage of Justice. And one should not support abusing justice to equal the playing field, we should support fair laws (which they are not) being upheld fairly (which they are not).
Frankly, this is where I'm at. Our laws suck, our gun laws are bad, Kyle shouldn't have been there and put himself in a place where he could kill someone. And the current system allows all of it.
I don't think what he did should be allowed or legal. I also don't feel right saying the laws should be ignored. So Im feeling like there was no right way to convict him because the system is set up already to allow him to be innocent. So I find myself less upset with the actual verdict and more upset with the laws and the systems that got us here. This was always the natural outcome.
I hope this doesn't come across as me defending him. I'm not at all. I just don't see how one can convict him without also bending the laws of conviction that could then be bent whenever someone disagrees with them. So my issue is mainly with the laws, the ethics, and the culture, but not the result of today.
I generally agree. But I don't agree either that just discarding the laws and executing justice based on individual ethics is a viable route either. Not that this one isn't obvious.I mean, I'm gonna be honest. Laws don't really matter when it comes to ethics, by which I mean the laws are just a reflection of what governments and those who control them find important, which in turn isn't equivalent to what is just. The laws of a country that routinely and consciously results in favorable outcomes for white people just because they're white are frankly not worth respecting. So like...who the fuck cares if the jury would've had to have subverted "the system" to put Kyle away? Why are we acting like the American judicial system, a system that for hundreds of years was like "yeah slavery's cool", deserves such a veneer of legitimacy that anyone has to be okay with the results it spits out from its algorithms?
We should be taking issue with everything, including the fuck-ass jury. They made an unjust outcome. So fuck 'em too. Whatever happens to them happens.
The prosecution didn't create the laws that allowed all of this to be legal in Wisconsin.
Even if it did happen that way, unless someone did a good investigation and proved that nothing would happen.Don't want to be all conspiracy theorist but... prosecution did such a terrible job too... What are the chances they were "manipulated"?
Biden doesn't even tweet in all caps! American masculinity is dead.
None of this was legal in Wisconsin.The prosecution didn't create the laws that allowed all of this to be legal in Wisconsin.
I really wish people would stop pretending like the outcome of this trial is 100% on the prosecution and not on the metric shitload of other deciding factors. And I know that's not what you said but I have seen so many people bring up the prosecution without even mentioning all of the other things that were in his favor from the start.
The laws of Wisconsin did not require the prosecution to fail to establish the curfew that Rittenhouse violated, charge Rittenhouse with an appropriate weapons charge, or call a witness that was going to testify that they pointed a gun at Rittenhouse before he shot him.The prosecution didn't create the laws that allowed all of this to be legal in Wisconsin.
Vigilantism is neither here nor there. If Kyle is found dead some day, oh well.I generally agree. But I don't agree either that just discarding the laws and executing justice based on individual ethics is a viable route either. Not that this one isn't obvious.
I mean, I'm gonna be honest. Laws don't really matter when it comes to ethics, by which I mean the laws are just a reflection of what governments and those who control them find important, which in turn isn't equivalent to what is just. The laws of a country that routinely and consciously results in favorable outcomes for white people just because they're white are frankly not worth respecting. So like...who the fuck cares if the jury would've had to have subverted "the system" to put Kyle away? Why are we acting like the American judicial system, a system that for hundreds of years was like "yeah slavery's cool", deserves such a veneer of legitimacy that anyone has to be okay with the results it spits out from its algorithms?
We should be taking issue with everything, including the fuck-ass jury. They made an unjust outcome. So fuck 'em too. Whatever happens to them happens.
I think my general disagreement seems to be that this is still trying to argue that people in the system can operate within it but using moral means. As if the system just requires jurors to "do the right thing" or be more moral. But the legal system disallows this in its current state.Vigilantism is neither here nor there. If Kyle is found dead some day, oh well.
I just want people to stop legitimizing white killers being freed by saying "The outcome sucked, but oh well that's the appropriate outcome due to the system."
You don't have to accept that framing, and doing so just gives white supremacists ammo.
Either a legal system produces mainly bad outcomes, or mainly good ones. If it produces mainly bad ones, then it doesn't actually matter if the outcomes are the logical results of the system's inner workings. Like, no one thinks returning slaves was good because that was the law. Indeed, breaking the law in this instance would be the just result. And imagine being that so-called abolitionist who went "Yo, Dave you can't HELP them escape because that's undermining the system. It sucks but what can you do."
Dave is the actual ally here.
Kyle going free is bad because the system is bad. It's all bad. To give any quarter to that simply because he was freed by a jury as per legal precedent is absurd.
What is this response? Holy shit. I can disagree with someone but this?Jesus. You are such a piece of shit. When have you ever been honest you dog shit bigoted cunt?
I know you're about to be banned but when you inevitably come back here to desperately get a glimpse of whatever kind of reactions that you tried to get from this post I hope you realize just how ignorant and hypocritical this post really is.Jesus. You are such a piece of shit. When have you ever been honest you dog shit bigoted cunt?
I saw a well liked twitter post say something along the lines of "Our system isn't perfect but I wouldn't trade it for any other!" like, why? do you really think the American judicial system is the very best in the world? How?Kyle going free is bad because the system is bad. It's all bad. To give any quarter to that simply because he was freed by a jury as per legal precedent is absurd.
Jesus. You are such a piece of shit. When have you ever been honest you dog shit bigoted cunt?
Jesus. You are such a piece of shit. When have you ever been honest you dog shit bigoted cunt?
Smells like an alt.What is this response? Holy shit. I can disagree with someone but this?
Wow, you are fucking mongrel aren't you?Jesus. You are such a piece of shit. When have you ever been honest you dog shit bigoted cunt?
their name is even "redshirt." it's a suicide account.
Did you miss the news?
Yeah but they sure showed us. I bet they get at least two whole internet clouts for that beauty.
Pretty much.I really wish people would stop pretending like the outcome of this trial is 100% on the prosecution and not on the metric shitload of other deciding factors. And I know that's not what you said but I have seen so many people bring up the prosecution without even mentioning all of the other things that were in his favor from the start.
And don't get me wrong the prosecution sucked, but they were the least of the reasons why he got to walk free today. Between his skin color, his politics, the ludicrous laws in wisconsin, and the judge working in his favor the prosecution never stood a chance no matter how good they were.