Karlinel

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
7,826
Mallorca, Spain
The change is disappointing. There was nothing wrong in this. Actually, it's pretty shocking that people can feel shocked by that. Wow.
It is a charicature of offensive stereotypes used to dehumanize and justify the brutalization of large groups of people, so I can somehow guess why.
Edit: my example was a stereotype we have in other countries used to mock white americans, but I think was overkill, my apologies.
 
Nov 2, 2017
4,519
Birmingham, AL
How are there so many dumbasses in this thread... and more than one of them mentioned BLM for some reason wtf

I know things are all over the news and internet, but ignorance is a big thing and a lot of people are simply unwilling to educate themselves and grow.

I've grown up in the middle of a small, white Alabama town with family that are overwhelmingly racist. I'm doing my part to separate myself from them and be the best ally that I can be, but there's so much out there that has NEVER been taught to me and I am learning new things almost every day.

Like today is the first time I'm learning about the mask issue, hence my honest question about concerning Aku Aku. I'm now doing research on the subject, just so I'm more aware in the future.

But the fact is, some people never grew up in an environment where it was taught to them what this is, and it was hammered into their heads how things like these masks are "okay".
 

Hoa

Member
Jun 6, 2018
4,423
I honestly don't think a design like that could be an accident. There are too many bad things in there.

How are there so many dumbasses in this thread... and more than one of them mentioned BLM for some reason wtf

They are still in the thread even after the developers apologized and decided to change the design.

They go hard in the paint when they feel a developer is being "censored" but stay completely silent on human rights issues hurting Black folks.

Good on the devs for listening and changing the design. A lot of defenders could learn from them, but they won't.
 
Dec 30, 2017
251
If there was nothing wrong, why are they changing the design or removing it? It might or might not have been intentional but the design is obviously problematic.

Fear of backlash on social networks by minorities that might hurt their sales. I'm disappointed by both sides reaction actually. They should have defended their art vision more and people should stop from being oversensitive for everything imo.

It is a charicature of offensive stereotypes used to dehumanize and justify the brutalization of large groups of people, so I can somehow guess why.
Edit: my example was a stereotype we have in other countries used to mock white americans, but I think was overkill, my apologies.

The game is made by Korean people, they have nothing to do with the ideas you mentioned. Even if it looks like a stereotype, people over the world love tribal african aesthetic. I'm seeing nothing but admiration there.
 
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nillansan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,520
Denmark
It is just my opinion, I do not think that a game creator is racist just for creating enemies and friends in a video game, perhaps tomorrow he will create another game with another type of setting where it is different and vice versa.
The change is disappointing. There was nothing wrong in this. Actually, it's pretty shocking that people can feel shocked by that. Wow.
Post with your real accounts cowards.
 

Karlinel

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
7,826
Mallorca, Spain
Fear of backlash on social networks by minorities that might hurt their sales. I'm disappointing by both sides reaction actually. They should have defended their art vision more and people should stop from being oversensitive for everything imo.



The game is made by Korean people, they have nothing to do with the ideas you mentioned. Even if it looks like a stereotype, people over the world love tribal african aesthetic. I'm seeing nothing but admiration there.
But we are mostly westerners, so to us it does look off. Their intent wasn't to be racist, which is great, and they realized it could be viewed as such soon enough.
I'm spanish, we don't have any meaningful japanese population, but I know there are slurs against them in english and I would avoid them. Call it courtesy, call it not being an asshole.
 

Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,668
I"m glad they are changing it, but I"m not really buying that the designs weren"t intentional. The game seems explicitly colonial/unexplored wilderness themed.
The designs were problematic, but I don't think it was intentional in a way to offend or paint the people as savages or anything like that. I believe they probably went into it with "let's design some tribal people here" and that design is what they just unfortunately ended up with and didn't really have anyone on the team where it immediately stood out to them as bad.

I think their response to it is a solid one and some of these things can just be mistakes.
 

Raticus79

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,059
I kickstarted this one and got an update email about this this morning. Glad they'll fix it up quickly.
 

boontobias

Avenger
Apr 14, 2018
9,688
The designs were problematic, but I don't think it was intentional in a way to offend or paint the people as savages or anything like that. I believe they probably went into it with "let's design some tribal people here" and that design is what they just unfortunately ended up with and didn't really have anyone on the team where it immediately stood out to them as bad.

I think their response to it is a solid one and some of these things can just be mistakes.

The only stereotypes missing are them cooking a someone in a giant pot and a bone through the nose. They didn't design anything, they slapped on stereotypes and called it a day. The juxtaposition between 'civilization' and the wild untamed lands is used throughout the trailer. Even if they were well-intentioned or naive with the literal design, the way they use those characters (the only dark-skinned humans they've shown present in their game) as dangerous savages is also pretty racist.

The devs really need to do some introspection on how they let that go through. In the meanwhile, I'm good on this game.
 
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spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,936
They are aware of this, and will be modifying the character. It is on their fb page and they have apologized, if they can't tweak the model, they'll remove it.

Full facebook post:


"Dear all,
In answer to a series of inquries made in the last 24 hours regarding certain character deign revealed in the PlayStation PS5 Reveal Event showcase trailer yesterday, the LDI team wish to make the following announcement.
Racist stereotypes of any kind were absolutely not intended, we were not aware of the stereotypical connotations and wish to apologize to anyone who may have been offended by the character design.
In addition, no one (not just limited to team members) has ever commented or hinted on the character designs. However, these characters have not been revealed publicly elsewhere prior to the event.
The design intention was to create characters who are protectors/guardians of a particular mystic region in the world of Little Devil Inside. We were not producing character designs referenced on any real African and/or Afro-American human tribes.
The focus was on creating colorful masks and our designers were researching masks from all various cultures. As characters in the game, they move in groups and use blow darts that paralyze when hit. We wished to add character to the mask design and give it life to it - something like the little Kakamora characters in Disney's Moana.
However, regardless of our intentions, if any people were offended in any way, we sincerely apologize.
We will be making the following fixes to the current characters but if it ends up not being suitable to the game as a whole, we may change the design entirely.
1. Remove the Dreadlocks.
2. Change the bold lips.
3. Change skin tone.
4. Tweak the dart blower so it looks less like a joint.
On a minor note, this is our first game title and we are still quite naive in many areas.
As always, we thank you all for your support!"

That is a great response. Every act of ignorance isn't necessarily an act of malice. It is great when people own it, make the appropriate changes, and learn from their mistakes.
 

The Gold Hawk

Member
Jan 30, 2019
4,735
Yorkshire
Cool that they're changing it.

It's a shame that it had to get to the point where they needed feedback to implement the change (as in it shouldn't have been put in there in the first place) but at least they acknowledged the issues and are going to do something about it.

I see the people throwing around "Censorship" are a delight as always.

Also, I forgot that I had put some money into the kickstarter of this thing (for the xbox one version ¬_¬) 5 goddamn years ago.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
4,695
I come back to the thread and see people have been firing up the alt accounts. I see mods are on top of it but lets hope they work out who the main accounts are at some point as well.
 

Siresly

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,703
Good to see their response. That's how these things should go.

Fear of backlash on social networks by minorities that might hurt their sales. I'm disappointing by both sides reaction actually. They should have defended their art vision more and people should stop from being oversensitive for everything imo.



The game is made by Korean people, they have nothing to do with the ideas you mentioned. Even if it looks like a stereotype, people over the world love tribal african aesthetic. I'm seeing nothing but admiration there.
Ignorance or intent is not a get-out-of-jail free card, it doesn't change the outcome. Which in this case would've been perpetuating a harmful, racist stereotype.
The developer acknowledges this. But for some reason, you don't believe that acknowledgment is genuine, and they're actually forced to remove this racist aspect because of potential social media backlash and worse sales. Which I guess is supposed to be a bad thing because it stifles developers' creative freedom to put racist stuff in their games?

I don't get it.
 

Deleted member 46489

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
1,979
The change is disappointing. There was nothing wrong in this. Actually, it's pretty shocking that people can feel shocked by that. Wow.
The scene shows a 'civilized' white hunter being chased by dark-skinned savages with blowpipes, who sport dreadlocks and african-inspired masks. What part of 'this is problematic' is difficult to understand?
 

F2BBm3ga

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,103
Context is everything. Japanese people haven't predominantly been depicted as samurai in media for hundreds of years as a means to dehumanise them and portray them in a more bestial, sub-human fashion in the same way has been done to black people.

I enjoyed most of your post but I'd have to say this part is debatable. Asians have been portrayed poorly in media since forever. This is like, something that has been brought up constantly which is why Crazy rich asians was celebrated. Id say that samurai masks also made asians look like savages as they were just nameless bad guys with masks that murdered heartlessly. Most of your post is on point, but I think you are wrong on how asians have been depicted in media. They were typically either geeky nerd, asexual, karate man, or bad guy. And when they were bad guy, they typically were bad guys with no redeeming qualities(not likeable) and if not those things, then they were whitewashed.
 

M.J.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,059
Didn't read the thread but... Look at those big ass sambo lips. Judging from the last page it seems they've changed it, so thats good.
 

waugh

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Feb 21, 2020
1,401
As a creative myself this thread has got me thinking. In media is it possible to depict a more archaic person without it being problematic? For example what if a story involved a diverse group of people including many poc investigating an undeveloped location that had hostile tribes people. Would it still be problematic? Or would it be okay as long as the tribal people are not invoking stereotypes representing REAL people?
 

ReturnOfThaMack88

Alt-Account
Banned
May 30, 2020
567
lol, the people in here saying things like what about this or what about that... and then the others saying oh it's just the lips? This thread is a perfect example of how far behind we are on even beginning to understand racism. Sambo lips and dreads on a generic "savage" character should be the most obviously offensive thing, but people are here comparing them to authentic African masks... smdh
 

ReturnOfThaMack88

Alt-Account
Banned
May 30, 2020
567
As a creative myself this thread has got me thinking. In media is it possible to depict a more archaic person without it being problematic? For example what if a story involved a diverse group of people including many poc investigating an undeveloped location that had hostile tribes people. Would it still be problematic? Or would it be okay as long as the tribal people are not invoking stereotypes representing REAL people?

You answered your own question... obviously there's nothing wrong with making depictions of hostile tribal groups. But don't invoke the most offensive age-old stereotypes when doing it. It's really not that complicated.
 
Nov 21, 2017
105
USA
Didn't notice it in the trailer but obviously cool with the change if that's the right thing to do. This game was such a highlight of the stream for me. I really hope it turn out great!
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,116
They are aware of this, and will be modifying the character. It is on their fb page and they have apologized, if they can't tweak the model, they'll remove it.

Full facebook post:


"Dear all,
In answer to a series of inquries made in the last 24 hours regarding certain character deign revealed in the PlayStation PS5 Reveal Event showcase trailer yesterday, the LDI team wish to make the following announcement.
Racist stereotypes of any kind were absolutely not intended, we were not aware of the stereotypical connotations and wish to apologize to anyone who may have been offended by the character design.
In addition, no one (not just limited to team members) has ever commented or hinted on the character designs. However, these characters have not been revealed publicly elsewhere prior to the event.
The design intention was to create characters who are protectors/guardians of a particular mystic region in the world of Little Devil Inside. We were not producing character designs referenced on any real African and/or Afro-American human tribes.
The focus was on creating colorful masks and our designers were researching masks from all various cultures. As characters in the game, they move in groups and use blow darts that paralyze when hit. We wished to add character to the mask design and give it life to it - something like the little Kakamora characters in Disney's Moana.
However, regardless of our intentions, if any people were offended in any way, we sincerely apologize.
We will be making the following fixes to the current characters but if it ends up not being suitable to the game as a whole, we may change the design entirely.
1. Remove the Dreadlocks.
2. Change the bold lips.
3. Change skin tone.
4. Tweak the dart blower so it looks less like a joint.
On a minor note, this is our first game title and we are still quite naive in many areas.
As always, we thank you all for your support!"
Yeah this is less malicious and more racial ignorance to certain depictions and a great response. Might challenge them to make something a bit better.
 

FormatCompatible

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,071
They are aware of this, and will be modifying the character. It is on their fb page and they have apologized, if they can't tweak the model, they'll remove it.

Full facebook post:


"Dear all,
In answer to a series of inquries made in the last 24 hours regarding certain character deign revealed in the PlayStation PS5 Reveal Event showcase trailer yesterday, the LDI team wish to make the following announcement.
Racist stereotypes of any kind were absolutely not intended, we were not aware of the stereotypical connotations and wish to apologize to anyone who may have been offended by the character design.
In addition, no one (not just limited to team members) has ever commented or hinted on the character designs. However, these characters have not been revealed publicly elsewhere prior to the event.
The design intention was to create characters who are protectors/guardians of a particular mystic region in the world of Little Devil Inside. We were not producing character designs referenced on any real African and/or Afro-American human tribes.
The focus was on creating colorful masks and our designers were researching masks from all various cultures. As characters in the game, they move in groups and use blow darts that paralyze when hit. We wished to add character to the mask design and give it life to it - something like the little Kakamora characters in Disney's Moana.
However, regardless of our intentions, if any people were offended in any way, we sincerely apologize.
We will be making the following fixes to the current characters but if it ends up not being suitable to the game as a whole, we may change the design entirely.
1. Remove the Dreadlocks.
2. Change the bold lips.
3. Change skin tone.
4. Tweak the dart blower so it looks less like a joint.
On a minor note, this is our first game title and we are still quite naive in many areas.
As always, we thank you all for your support!"
It's good to hear that the devs are willing to listen to the concerns and have decided to change or remove that enemy design. Hope the game turns out well.
 

Rats

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,148
Wow. It's almost like calling these things out can result in positive change, and provide a learning experience for everybody involved. What a concept.
 
OP
OP
Yasuke

Yasuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,853
I'm pleased to see the dev respond and own up to it. This looks like a pretty cool game, and I'd love to buy it if they make those changes.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,936
Wow, the comments on that facebook post are pure toxic waste. It looks very much like they are being brigaded by 4chan or some shit. Pretty disgusting stuff.
 

Nimby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,237
They are aware of this, and will be modifying the character. It is on their fb page and they have apologized, if they can't tweak the model, they'll remove it.

Full facebook post:


"Dear all,
In answer to a series of inquries made in the last 24 hours regarding certain character deign revealed in the PlayStation PS5 Reveal Event showcase trailer yesterday, the LDI team wish to make the following announcement.
Racist stereotypes of any kind were absolutely not intended, we were not aware of the stereotypical connotations and wish to apologize to anyone who may have been offended by the character design.
In addition, no one (not just limited to team members) has ever commented or hinted on the character designs. However, these characters have not been revealed publicly elsewhere prior to the event.
The design intention was to create characters who are protectors/guardians of a particular mystic region in the world of Little Devil Inside. We were not producing character designs referenced on any real African and/or Afro-American human tribes.
The focus was on creating colorful masks and our designers were researching masks from all various cultures. As characters in the game, they move in groups and use blow darts that paralyze when hit. We wished to add character to the mask design and give it life to it - something like the little Kakamora characters in Disney's Moana.
However, regardless of our intentions, if any people were offended in any way, we sincerely apologize.
We will be making the following fixes to the current characters but if it ends up not being suitable to the game as a whole, we may change the design entirely.
1. Remove the Dreadlocks.
2. Change the bold lips.
3. Change skin tone.
4. Tweak the dart blower so it looks less like a joint.
On a minor note, this is our first game title and we are still quite naive in many areas.
As always, we thank you all for your support!"
So they just happened to recreate an offensive stereotype out of thin air basically? Well whatever, I don't really buy their whole statement but at least they acknowledged and are attempting to fix it.
 

exodus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,971
Even though the design is problematic, it's cute as fuck.

It's really not hard to see how they ended up going with this design based on their intentions. But I'm glad they're addressing it.
 

Korghano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
189
Contrast that to LDI where there are juxtaposition of what seemingly looks like an adventurer from "Civilized and posh" Victorian/Elizabethan England is sent on a quest by his old english mentor to deal with encroaching threats. One of these threats are people, distinguished by their dreadlocks and masks, identifying them as one of African tribes- who IRL's history have been reduced to caricatures as "threatening Savages" that the white man brought enlightenment to (i.e. colonized them). So, the game essentially plays out the sequence from which caricatures have been derived and exploited in pop culture throughout the last few decades in tv shows, movies and games.

I think part of the problem has to do with the standardization of a singular type of story, borne from a singular point of view throughout much of the last century in popular media. The colonist adventurer fantasy is pervasive, and it's almost always told in a particular way with little thought given to the depiction of indigenous people. We've been taught to believe that they're sub-human savages that it becomes accepted wisdom. I can absolutely see how folks who might not be exposed to black stories might not immediately see it as problematic. It wasn't so long ago in movies and TV was a straight white man. As a child of the 80's, this is what my image of a hero was... and I'm Nigerian.

Things are changing for the better. Slowly, but they are. I might be mistaken, but I think every single protagonist at the PS5 reveal was either female or a POC, or both.

On the subject of LDI - Good to see their response, and hopefully, it helps them learn and grow moving forward.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,466
As a creative myself this thread has got me thinking. In media is it possible to depict a more archaic person without it being problematic? For example what if a story involved a diverse group of people including many poc investigating an undeveloped location that had hostile tribes people. Would it still be problematic? Or would it be okay as long as the tribal people are not invoking stereotypes representing REAL people?

The framework of the story you're proposing is steeped in a history of violent, bloody colonialism. It doesn't really matter if a multiracial coalition of characters is doing it.

I would ask these questions about your idea:

1) What is the purpose of the "investigation"? Colonial expeditions were often investigations to find gold, land, or slaves. Do the investigators have some sort of 'jurisdiction' in this invasion?

2) What makes a location "undeveloped" and why is this important to the story? "Undeveloped" implies that it should be developed (by contrast, something like "untainted" would imply the opposite)

3) Why exactly is the tribe "hostile" (as opposed to defensive or guarded), and why is their natural defensive response framed as their fault? Is there human empathy in the story that looks beyond "tribes are hostile and savage?" If 'investigators' were coming to your home and calling you undeveloped, you might have a 'hostile' reaction, too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
33,489
Atlanta GA
I"m glad they are changing it, but I"m not really buying that the designs weren"t intentional. The game seems explicitly colonial/unexplored wilderness themed.

It is but for a South Korean dev I can kinda see how they'd be unaware of the implications of that. I can't fully give them the benefit of the doubt but I wouldn't be surprised if the history of such a thing is totally lost on them.

At least their response is a solid start. IMO this type of enemy trope needs to be retired from games altogether (including stuff like the fetishes in Diablo). If they're serious about being willing to redesign them entirely and change the concept, then that's where they need to be moving towards if I'm gonna pick this game up.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,967
People are always ready to preserve their /v/ street cred.
Thankfully I'm sure there's a 60's Merry Melodies skit out there where you can get your fill of African caricatures for hours!
 

Teuthex

Member
May 31, 2019
456
As a creative myself this thread has got me thinking. In media is it possible to depict a more archaic person without it being problematic? For example what if a story involved a diverse group of people including many poc investigating an undeveloped location that had hostile tribes people. Would it still be problematic? Or would it be okay as long as the tribal people are not invoking stereotypes representing REAL people?
There is a problem with the entire premise of "archaic people" and "undeveloped locations". Just because there is a technological differential, it does not mean that they are primitive and that their land is un-owned.

You can have some success though I think with careful narrative framing if the supernatural is involved or if these hostile tribes are portrayed as deviant and reviled even by the bulk of the local culture, for example rogue groups of cannibals, cultists or political exiles, or are waging war upon the intruders, but there are many negative stereotypes which centre on indigenous cultures being primitive, savage and generally inferior. There is even a problem with non-agrarian societies being generally imagined as being "tribal", because it erases their complexities and the unique social structures.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
To me, the racism in the trailer is pretty blatant.

It's another fantasy world that "conveniently" excludes black people

the shots of the clearly European inspired town that only showed white people give explicit colonist overtones to the contrasting "frontier" gameplay

it just speaks to how ingrained anti-black racism is worldwide: south Koreans will imagine a brand new fantastic world of epic mythical creatures that excludes human beings with brown skin but definitely has a blonde haired blue eye florist that the trailer decided would be exciting to show for whatever reasons?

seems like the same old bullshit with a new cutesy art direction
I have to agree.

It never fails to amaze me how people can think of fantastical shit like Dragons and Monsters but think " oh, lets make the civilized people all white".

The response is what it is. Some parts are poorly worded to say the least (they prob really should hire a diverse PR team) and it seems this was poorly thought out on their part from the start (IDK how you get this shit from trying to make something like Kakamora's from Moana) but I'm beyond giving Asian Nations the excuse of innocent ignorance for this type of stuff.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,759
I have to agree.

It never fails to amaze me how people can think of fantastical shit like Dragons and Monsters but think " oh, lets make the civilized people all white".

The response is what it is. Some parts are poorly worded to say the least (they prob really should hire a diverse PR team) and it seems this was poorly thought out on their part from the start (IDK how you get this shit from trying to make something like Kakamora's from Moana) but I'm beyond giving Asian Nations the excuse of innocent ignorance for this type of stuff.


The response is whatever.

..If they are even able to comprehend it, it's got to be hard to admit they made a white colonizer rpg & the racist savage tropes they "created" didn't come out of thin air.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
Probably a bit of insecurity in phrasing, like when you sometimes aren't sure which one of the available words depict the concept you want to describe better (or don't want to restrict your expression to only a part of the concept)? even in your native language? That's often when people use 'and/or', or start listening synonyms which sometimes won't work as intended. They probably didn't want to exclude people with African heritage, so they went for the Afro-American term and they most likely put the word 'tribe' at the wrong end and it should have been "any real African tribes and/or Afro-American human".

I'm gonna agree.

I enjoyed most of your post but I'd have to say this part is debatable. Asians have been portrayed poorly in media since forever. This is like, something that has been brought up constantly which is why Crazy rich asians was celebrated. Id say that samurai masks also made asians look like savages as they were just nameless bad guys with masks that murdered heartlessly. Most of your post is on point, but I think you are wrong on how asians have been depicted in media. They were typically either geeky nerd, asexual, karate man, or bad guy. And when they were bad guy, they typically were bad guys with no redeeming qualities(not likeable) and if not those things, then they were whitewashed.

I think you've projected well beyond the scope of what I actually said in my post. I was only speaking specifically about Japanese people being depicted as samurai as a means to dehumanise them.

A comparison about Japanese samurai isn't the same thing as claiming that all asian people aren't stereotyped. I think you may have read that into my comment.

Forgive me if i'm wrong but I don't think Japanese people are often depicted as samurai in non-Japanese media as a way to stereotype them. Japanese samurai are present in a lot of media, but the samurai is typically not used specifically as a negative portrayal of Japanese people.

So to be clear I'm not saying asian people aren't stereotyped. Racist asian stereotypes are just as problematic that's not up for debate.

I was speaking specifically and only about Samurai depictions in media as a counter-example because Samurai also wear grimacing face masks.
 

Sage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
680
Japan
The irony of a thread about unintentional racism in a game developed by Korean devs where people are arguing about the mindset of Japanese people.
 

F2BBm3ga

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,103
I'm gonna agree.



I think you've projected well beyond the scope of what I actually said in my post. I was only speaking specifically about Japanese people being depicted as samurai as a means to dehumanise them.

A comparison about Japanese samurai isn't the same thing as claiming that all asian people aren't stereotyped. I think you may have read that into my comment.

Forgive me if i'm wrong but I don't think Japanese people are often depicted as samurai in non-Japanese media as a way to stereotype them. Japanese samurai are present in a lot of media, but the samurai is typically not used specifically as a negative portrayal of Japanese people.

So to be clear I'm not saying asian people aren't stereotyped. Racist asian stereotypes are just as problematic that's not up for debate.

I was speaking specifically and only about Samurai depictions in media as a counter-example because Samurai also wear grimacing face masks.

So just in response to your clarification
Just talking about the japanese masks. When you think of those type of masks what comes to mind? Typically murder or death is about to happen. Thats the only time those masks are ever used in media regarding those masks. Murder, mayhem and savageness. And often a mix of "betrayal." Typically when you see "good" samurai, you see their face. Bad samurai or the bad guys typically have the masks on and are faceless killers. With that said, thats with the little bit of media to draw from. Im speaking from movie/tv media perspective. I dont really play alot of samurai games.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
So just in response to your clarification
Just talking about the japanese masks. When you think of those type of masks what comes to mind? Typically murder or death is about to happen. Thats the only time those masks are ever used in media regarding those masks. Murder, mayhem and savageness. And often a mix of "betrayal." Typically when you see "good" samurai, you see their face. Bad samurai or the bad guys typically have the masks on and are faceless killers. With that said, thats with the little bit of media to draw from

I'm must admit, i'm not an avid consumer of feudal Japanese inspired media, so the nuanced comparison you refer to here is not something I can attest to being familiar with.

What little media I have consumed involving Japanese samurai hasn't necessarily made this distinction you raise here so clearly.

Fundamentally, it's a tangential issue, one I only raised because of the original poster I was replying to raised Ghosts of Tsushima as a (false) equivalent example of tribal war mask wearing non-white portrayal that should also be considered racist.

The thrust of my counter-point was that portayal of samurai in media hasn't nearly been as problematic as when black people are portrayed as savage tribespeople. The latter has much deeper roots in the deliberate justification for the systematic oppresion and abuse of black people on a much larger scale.

I'm personally less familiar with any intentionally negative propagandising of the Samurai trope against Japanese people historically. That said I wouldn't be surprised to learn of real life examples of this.

All i'm really speaking to here is that most Samurai depictions in contemporary media consist mostly of an almost romanticising fantasy, rather than a deliberate use to portray Japanese people as savages for the express purpose of dehumanising them.

Now there are other clearly racist asian stereotypes that are a complete other story.