Mafiera Season 17 Review |OT| [Insert season meme here]

[Sawneeks]

Welcome back to the review thread! Here we talk about the state of our little community and what we need to work on, change, or just talk about in general. As a reminder here are the games from this season:

Nier: Gestalt Mafia by lokiduck and Verelios
Super Mario Mafia by Fanto
Costume Party by Natiko
Transistor Mafia by Aeleus
Risk Mafia by Geno

Before we get to our usual list of topics we have a few announcements! Many of which you folks are aware of but we still want to highlight them.

• Aeleus has been helping us out behind the scenes for some time now but we want to publicly welcome them to the Review Team! Welcome, Aeleus!
• Speaking of A, they had offered to redo and complete the Mafia Game Data sheet and it is now back up and running! It takes quite a bit of time to do so thank you so much for doing that.
• A shoutout to Fireblend for running the Vote Tool and handling the glitches that have appeared with it this season. Games run much smoother with it and the hours of work are always appreciated.

As always if you have anything you would like to discuss as a community and don't see it listed below please bring it up! This is by no means a comprehensive list and more topics are always welcomed.

1. Era has a new system in place to allow users to show their pronouns underneath their username and avatar on their posts. We are of the mind to not make this feature mandatory for our games as some people may not be comfortable with publicly showing their pronouns in that matter. Thoughts?
2. The idea of having a designated individual to talk with/vent to during a game was brought up and we wanted everyone's thoughts on it. This would be a volunteer position and the 'mafia therapist' would be someone a player could vent to/talk to about a game if need be. Like a mentor, this person would not be able to speak about events in-game.
3. Era also has a new feature that allows an OTs opening post to be pinned and show up on every page! We're thinking about trying that out and making the first post about currently recruiting games so it appears more frequently. What do you all think?
4. Finally, what do you think of the changes since the last review thread? We simplified the OT, made a Mafia terms glossary, and placed all documents on OM.

If you would like to be added to the permanent Replacement List, now is the time to do so! I, Dr. Monkey, and cabot can always be contacted if you would like to be added to the list but the review thread seemed like the perfect time to make a general call for sign ups. :>

Spoiler

The current permanent Replacement List includes: weemadarthur, TheChuggernaut, lokiduck, Faddy, Fanto, Zipped, Reki, and Jman!

Thank you all!

>.>

<.<

Spoiler: "next season's games…"

Lots of knives, scary movies, kart racing, and a plethora of heroes and villains! That's...kind of a scary mix, honestly.

 

[Fanto]

Era has a new system in place to allow users to show their pronouns underneath their username and avatar on their posts. We are of the mind to not make this feature mandatory for our games as some people may not be comfortable with publicly showing their pronouns in that matter. Thoughts?

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I think encouraging it, but not requiring it, is how I would describe my take I guess. Anything that makes it easier to avoid making those mistakes is a good thing in my opinion, maybe give it a shoutout in the pronoun rule like "If you'd like, you can use Era's pronoun feature, read more about it here" with a link to the thread that introduced the feature?

But like you said, if someone personally doesn't want to use the feature, then I don't think they should be excluded from games just because of that.

The idea of having a designated individual to talk with/vent to during a game was brought up and we wanted everyone's thoughts on it. This would be a volunteer position and the 'mafia therapist' would be someone a player could vent to/talk to about a game if need be. Like a mentor, this person would not be able to speak about events in-game.

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This one is an interesting idea. From both the perspective of a player and a gamerunner, it would be nice to have a third party who is ready and willing to respond to someone who's really frustrated/emotional about the game just as someone to talk to about it. It would definitely need to be a volunteer thing, since it's definitely not something anyone can do and also something that the volunteer would need to be prepared for themselves. If they're going through a bad time they might not want to take on other people's feelings as well, so I think we would need at least a few different volunteers for the job in the first place, and then make sure at least one of them is willing to take PMs during the duration of each game. It would definitely be some extra work and those volunteers would be angels, but I think the idea comes from a good place and it would be beneficial.

Era also has a new feature that allows an OTs opening post to be pinned and show up on every page! We're thinking about trying that out and making the first post about currently recruiting games so it appears more frequently. What do you all think?

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Definitely a good idea!

My suggestion would be to keep the current game's banner, description, and complexity, as well as a big highlighted message that says like "SIGN UPS OPEN NOW" or "SIGN UPS CLOSED, GAME IS NOW RUNNING" with a link to the game thread, all at the top of the OP.

I think that can also bring us back to the topic of changing the thread's title to reflect whether sign-ups are open or not. Keeping the OP and that info pinned to the top of each page would be a way for us to do that ourselves without needing to report the thread for a title change.

Finally, what do you think of the changes since the last review thread? We simplified the OT, made a Mafia terms glossary, and placed all documents on OM.

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All great stuff, I'm glad we simplified the OT. I don't know for sure if those efforts directly lead to all the new faces we saw this season or not, but we can at least pretend that they did so we can all feel good about that one lol. :P

 

[Geno]

Can I also raise something else, I want to ask about the vote tool, I and respect Fireblend for the work he's put in, but I want to know if we will be able to rely on it in the future in big games. I'll give my opinion on the current topics later.

 

[Natiko]

The mafia therapist suggestion is nice, but hard to support. As is we only have a couple people that really serve the mentor role when needed.

Can the top post thing be toggled? It makes sense to have it there when actively recruiting, but it makes a little less sense when not.

Can I also raise something else, I want to ask about the vote tool, I and respect Fireblend for the work he's put in, but I want to know if we will be able to rely on it in the future in big games. I'll give my opinion on the current topics later.

Click to shrink...

Febe put in a bunch of tweaks after the issues that arose towards the end of the season that should make it more smooth going forward. He also has some additional ideas that can be implemented if we still see issues, but that's TBD for now.

 

[MrHedin]

I second the idea of encouraging pronoun display but not requiring it as it reduces the chances of someone accidentally using the wrong pronouns. I feel like I know most of the more regular players at this point but I still find myself having to go back to the initial player listing a double check myself a lot. But also if you are not comfortable with having your pronouns out there then it's OK for them not to be displayed.

I think the mental health advisor (or whatever we call it) is a good idea but I do wonder how practical it might be. That's potentially a lot someone might have to deal with and I do wonder how many people we have who have the ability to be in that role. Its probably worth trying but I would hold expectations in check.

Also, we discussed it in spec chat during the last game but unless the game has a defined extension mechanic in the rules the day needs to end when the day is supposed to end. Losing the vote tool at the end of the day sucks but it's loss shouldn't lead to more time tacked on.

 

[SalvaPot]

As someone who CONSTANTLY fucks up pronouns I say that it would make it infinitely easier to me if all players have them under their profile and use the function. If we are expected to use the right pronouns and punished for using the wrong ones, then I don't think it's wrong to ask players to fill that info up.

I think the vent issue is also a bit flawed, sure venting is nice and all but I think it takes a heavy toll in both the venter and the venteé, and I doubt the people that volunteer to the function are trained psychologists. What if the volunteers realize they are ill equiped to manage what the player is going through, and decides to bail?

This game, by its very nature, can be stressful. It's also what makes it fun. If you can't handle the pressure then it's totally fine to ask for a replacemente. I have done it, most have done it. A game should never get in the way of your mental health. I don't think a third party person to vent to will solve the issue, I think it would probably make it worse.

 

[turmoil7]

Inform/encourage about the existence of the pronouns feature but don't make it mandatory.

Against "the therapist", I think it's unfair to expect someone to suck up all the negativity that can naturally arise from games of mafia for free.

For, but only if it's *very* brief, otherwise it will bring lots of unnecessary scrolling.

The previous changes were all good, I think.

 

[Deleted member 19365]

a designated individual to talk with/vent to during a game

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Isn't this person called mod? ;)

 

[SalvaPot]

Isn't this person called mod? ;)

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Man last game I really wanted to bother Geno with tons and tons of questions but Geno was so busy I felt bad.

 

[Deleted member 19365]

Jokes aside, the link to the game data is broken Sawneeks but I already saw Aeleus eagerly gathering all the info anyway, so thanks for the work you put in.

1. If people want to use it, let them, don't force though - how is the pronoun situation in general? Do we have less infractions, are they dealt with respectively?
2. I don't think it's feasible.
3. Pin the current recruiting, but keep it short as turmoil says.
4. No complaints here.

5. Geno I understand where you are coming from as a stressed moderator, but this is a top tier luxury issue. Putting pressure on Febe with the expectation of a reliable tool is pretty hardcore. Of course it's nice to have a tool, but if it breaks it breaks. Thanks Fireblend for all the work!
Manually counting votes during End of Day is an art form.

 

[Geno]

Jokes aside, the link to the game data is broken Sawneeks but I already saw Aeleus eagerly gathering all the info anyway, so thanks for the work you put in.

1. If people want to use it, let them, don't force though - how is the pronoun situation in general? Do we have less infractions, are they dealt with respectively?
2. I don't think it's feasible.
3. Pin the current recruiting, but keep it short as turmoil says.
4. No complaints here.

5. Geno I understand where you are coming from as a stressed moderator, but this is a top tier luxury issue. Putting pressure on Febe with the expectation of a reliable tool is pretty hardcore. Of course it's nice to have a tool, but if it breaks it breaks. Thanks Fireblend for all the work!
Manually counting votes during End of Day is an art form.

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Oh no I'm not putting pressure, I'm just asking in order to prepare better next time, although I guess I should prepare better either way. Like I said he's put a lot of work on it and I can't complain.

 

[Natiko]

Jokes aside, the link to the game data is broken Sawneeks but I already saw Aeleus eagerly gathering all the info anyway, so thanks for the work you put in.

1. If people want to use it, let them, don't force though - how is the pronoun situation in general? Do we have less infractions, are they dealt with respectively?
2. I don't think it's feasible.
3. Pin the current recruiting, but keep it short as turmoil says.
4. No complaints here.

5. Geno I understand where you are coming from as a stressed moderator, but this is a top tier luxury issue. Putting pressure on Febe with the expectation of a reliable tool is pretty hardcore. Of course it's nice to have a tool, but if it breaks it breaks. Thanks Fireblend for all the work!
Manually counting votes during End of Day is an art form.

Click to shrink...

I don't think anyone is tracking it, but I would anecdotally say it felt like we had the least infractions since making it a firmer rule this season. Still had issues don't get me wrong, but I think it improved. Costume Party was maybe a little fuzzy due to the nature of that game.

Oh no I'm not putting pressure, I'm just asking in order to prepare better next time, although I guess I should prepare better either way. Like I said he's put a lot of work on it and I can't complain.

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We won't know for sure until games run again, but I can tentatively say it should be improved and we are committed to supporting it.

 

[lokiduck]

Nier: Gestalt Mafia by lokiduck

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this a minor thing but Vere made the game too c: Please add his name please >>

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I def agree that the pronoun feature should be encouraged but not mandatory. For players that are uncomfortable with using it, they shouldn't have to at all, but otherwise people should.

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Finally I have my own personal suggestion... which is that I think we should try and encourage having more games purely on OM. The reason for this is so that members of our community who can't play on Era can get chances to play. After all someone shouldn't be punished and unable to play because of something unrelated to our mafia community.

I know OM doesn't work for everyone, like people whose work have it banned (like Fran), and I'm not saying that all games should be played there or anything, I just feel that we should try and have like maybe one game a season on OM.

The main issue for doing this for games that aren't costume related tho, are issues like the one we had in costume party where scum mixes up the thread. Is there a way we make it so different threads on OM have different backgrounds or something?

 

[Fanto]

Finally I have my own personal suggestion... which is that I think we should try and encourage having more games purely on OM. The reason for this is so that members of our community who can't play on Era can get chances to play. After all someone shouldn't be punished and unable to play because of something unrelated to our mafia community.

I know OM doesn't work for everyone, like people whose work have it banned (like Fran), and I'm not saying that all games should be played there or anything, I just feel that we should try and have like maybe one game a season on OM.

The main issue for doing this for games that aren't costume related tho, are issues like the one we had in costume party where scum mixes up the thread. Is there a way we make it so different threads on OM have different backgrounds or something?

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I am a very big supporter of running all of our games on OM specifically so people don't need an Era account to play, but I know that's a controversial opinion.

I would be in favor of 1 game a season on OM, but I'd also be in favor of just leaving it up to each gamerunner on their own too. There are extra features at our disposal by being able to run games on OM too, like gamerunners being able to lock the game thread when the day ends to prevent people from posting past the deadline.

In terms of making it easier to not make a Scum Slip™ post in the game thread, it might be possible to put the game thread in it's own board, and then the private threads like Scum/Lovers/Masons in a separate board. For example, the Risk Mafia board on OM right now has the Spec, Mason, and Scum threads. So if the game was run on there, there could just be a separate board that only had the Game thread.

 

[lokiduck]

I am a very big supporter of running all of our games on OM specifically so people don't need an Era account to play, but I know that's a controversial opinion.

I would be in favor of 1 game a season on OM, but I'd also be in favor of just leaving it up to each gamerunner on their own too. There are extra features at our disposal by being able to run games on OM too, like gamerunners being able to lock the game thread when the day ends to prevent people from posting past the deadline.

In terms of making it easier to not make a Scum Slip™ post in the game thread, it might be possible to put the game thread in it's own board, and then the private threads like Scum/Lovers/Masons in a separate board. For example, the Risk Mafia board on OM right now has the Spec, Mason, and Scum threads. So if the game was run on there, there could just be a separate board that only had the Game thread.

Click to shrink...

Yeah i personally think it'd be a nice change to have the gamerunner decide whether to run their games on OM or Era even if it's not a costume game (i personally kind of want to run on OM) and having at least one game that will be run on OM a season. It's unfair to those who can't access OM all the time, but I want to make it so all of our community can participate.

If some games run on OM, then that means players don't have to worry about having to be replaced out if they get banned on era for something unrelated to mafia.

Also like the idea of the GR being able to lock the thread. It'd def help prevent scum slips too.

 

[Natiko]

I don't know that we would ever tell a gamerunner where they can or can't run a game. Marvel was ran on OM and I don't think it had any costume elements for instance. We definitely default to assuming a game will run on Era, but I don't think that means it HAS to if that makes sense.

 

[Fran]

Marvel was ran on OM and I don't think it had any costume elements for instance.

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It had a player controlling a dummy account.

 

[Natiko]

It had a player controlling a dummy account.

Click to shrink...

Did it really? I don't remember that at all. Either way, I don't think there's some strict rule in place about when a game can or can't run on OM. The only thing I can say is that currently the vote tool does not work on OM.

 

[MrHedin]

I wouldn't mind a game a season at OM but Costume did expose a few issues. For one the vote tool did not seem to work within that game, I don't know if it was a OM issue or an issue with the tool but there were issues on that front. Secondly, just as a QOL thing, it's so much easier to iso a player here than it is over there with the Who Replied function.

 

[Fanto]

The only thing I can say is that currently the vote tool does not work on OM.

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I wouldn't mind a game a season at OM but Costume did expose a few issues. For one the vote tool did not seem to work within that game, I don't know if it was a OM issue or an issue with the tool but there were issues on that front.

Click to shrink...

I know the Vote Tool definitely used to work on OM, so I assume this is because of the recent update over there. I suppose it would be best to wait for Fireblend to investigate on that when he can before letting other games run there though since yeah, not having the Vote Tool is pretty rough.

Secondly, just as a QOL thing, it's so much easier to iso a player here than it is over there with the Who Replied function.

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True. The search function still works on OM, but there are easier ways to do it here, and I don't know if the Vote Tool does ISOs on OM like it will on Era. Again, something that Fireblend can probably check out when he has the chance.

I guess I would just say that, once OM is more capable of running games, I'm all for allowing people to run them there if they want, and letting people we know (like in the Discord) sign up, even if they don't currently have an Era account.

 

[Natiko]

Yeah, I'm not saying it to dissuade gamerunners from choosing to run a game there. I just know Febe has focused on getting it solid over here first and foremost. Fanto is correct in that the OM update borked the vote tool for it. It would require a larger rework to fix it I think.

 

[jman1954goat]

The idea of having a designated individual to talk with/vent to during a game

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This was my idea and I just want to clarify I don't mean 1 designated person on the call all the time for every mafia game. Just anyone who's not playing in the current game who is up to chat. It can be anyone who feels like it in the moment as the need pops up.

This game, by its very nature, can be stressful. It's also what makes it fun. If you can't handle the pressure then it's totally fine to ask for a replacemente. I have done it, most have done it. A game should never get in the way of your mental health. I don't think a third party person to vent to will solve the issue, I think it would probably make it worse.

Click to shrink...

The goal is for less people to want to replace out and I heavily disagree that talking to someone will make things worse it's been proven in studies that therapy rarely makes things worse usually either no effect or positive effect. (I know this is not actually therapy although mafia stress is less significant than the stress you go to a real therapist for.)

this would be of course completely optional and if you don't think it would personally help you would choose not to do it. (I think it would greatly helped me during Risk but I understand getting something like this in place is a huge ask.)

If we ever decided to do this I would be up for being the "therapist" when I'm not in a game. ( we would need a better word for it maybe stress chat buddy ?)

 

[jman1954goat]

From a player point of view I prefer era over Outermafia but I think it should be up to the gamerunner.

I'm instrested in how not being an era member and signing up for a OM game would work?

 

[Fanto]

I'm instrested in how not being an era member and signing up for a OM game would work?

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I'm mainly thinking of people who are in the Discord server but don't or no longer have an account here. Sign-ups get announced in the Discord as well, so if someone wanted to play they could surely get in contact with someone to let them know they want to sign up.

 

[Hawthorn]

Hi, I hope no one minds me dropping in to give my opinion even though I've played very few games-- I really hope to come back and play more!

One thing that I think might help with recruitment is to have an easily-accessible list with links of past games that are considered particularly fun or interesting to read through. There's a lot of description of what a game is like in the beginning of the thread, but I found that the thing that gave me the best picture was reading the games themselves-- some were intimidatingly long, but some were really fun to read over and had a lot of plot twists.

I also think it might be fun for future readers if the first post of a game was edited to have a link to the mafia chat/other secret chats, so that those who want to read along with spoilers can do so.

I would suggest that for discussion item 2, these volunteers should be called "venting buddies" or similar-- I know nobody's trying to imply that they would be licensed therapists, but I think it would be better not to use the words "therapy" or "therapists" at all, it just opens the door to some potential issues.

That's all I really had to say, pretty much in agreement with the consensus on the other items. Looking forward to the next season!

 

[jman1954goat]

I also think it might be fun for future readers if the first post of a game was edited to have a link to the mafia chat/other secret chats, so that those who want to read along with spoilers can do so.

Click to shrink...

This needs to happen for every thread gamerunners
Finding spec chat and mafia chat is so hard for a newcomer trying to read past games

put the spec and mafia chat links in the first post as soon as the game ends please.

I would suggest that for discussion item 2, these volunteers should be called "venting buddies" or similar-- I know nobody's trying to imply that they would be licensed therapists, but I think it would be better not to use the words "therapy" or "therapists" at all, it just opens the door to some potential issues.

Click to shrink...

Venting buddy is a great name thanks for the suggestion.

Therapist is to strong of a word and gives the wrong impression

having someone available to vent to can be powerful.

 

[Faddy]

I don't know that we would ever tell a gamerunner where they can or can't run a game. Marvel was ran on OM and I don't think it had any costume elements for instance. We definitely default to assuming a game will run on Era, but I don't think that means it HAS to if that makes sense.

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I think ERA has to be the default.

The reason the community exists is because people visit the site, see the games and take an interest. Putting games on Outer is fine when ERA can't accomodate certain types of games or unique mechanics but all games that can run on ERA should run on ERA.

The visibility of the community is why it continues to add people to it. Without it we would lose our player base to attrition.

 

[Faddy]

I def agree that the pronoun feature should be encouraged but not mandatory. For players that are uncomfortable with using it, they shouldn't have to at all, but otherwise people should.

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If you have a preferred pronoun in the game list I think people should be highly encouraged to use the function on ERA. And in general I am very glad the pronoun feature exists, it is definitely something that was helpful on Mafia Universe to build familiarity with the new people I was playing with.

 

[Stantastic]

1. Agreed with the idea that it should be encouraged, make sure everyone's aware that its a thing and helpful to other players, but not something mandatory given the complication some find with this kinda thing on a public forum.

2. I quite like this idea, particularly with Hawthorns "Venting Buddy" positioning above. Hell id be pretty open to volunteering myself if timezones wouldnt make me pretty useless for it.

3. I think the pinned first post could be extremely useful, even ongoing games might find some use for it, having Day/night phase countdowns and current player lists and the like.

4. Hard for me to comment on as those links seem to be broken for me In perfect working order, making this sentence very self defeating.

 

[lokiduck]

From a player point of view I prefer era over Outermafia but I think it should be up to the gamerunner.

I'm instrested in how not being an era member and signing up for a OM game would work?

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Like fanto said, we'd announce the game on the discord, and if someone wants to sign up there they can contact the game runner and be counted.

I think ERA has to be the default.

The reason the community exists is because people visit the site, see the games and take an interest. Putting games on Outer is fine when ERA can't accomodate certain types of games or unique mechanics but all games that can run on ERA should run on ERA.

The visibility of the community is why it continues to add people to it. Without it we would lose our player base to attrition.

Click to shrink...

I get the reasoning, but that's extremely unfair to members of our community who have lost their accounts, or have a month long ban due to something unrelated to mafia, but want to still play.

I'm not asking every single game be run on OM, just that we'd possibly have one every season. When signing games up for the schedule the runners themselves can specify if the game has to play on OM due to a mechanical issue like a costume game, or if it can be played on either site. Then when picking one game to be hosted on OM, if there isn't a game that has to be on OM, they contact the game runners and have one be set aside specifically for OM.

One game a season isn't going to affect our visibility.

If you have a preferred pronoun in the game list I think people should be highly encouraged to use the function on ERA. And in general I am very glad the pronoun feature exists, it is definitely something that was helpful on Mafia Universe to build familiarity with the new people I was playing with.

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I agree, it's just not everyone is going to feel comfortable or want to use it. Some members have already said they won't, and that's their choice to do so.

 

[Sawneeks]

Can the top post thing be toggled? It makes sense to have it there when actively recruiting, but it makes a little less sense when not.

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That's a great question. I'll fiddle with this thread and update this post with what I find.

Also, we discussed it in spec chat during the last game but unless the game has a defined extension mechanic in the rules the day needs to end when the day is supposed to end. Losing the vote tool at the end of the day sucks but it's loss shouldn't lead to more time tacked on.

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Hm, not sure what to do on this one. A lot of people view the vote tool as an essential part of the game so missing it would give a decent reason to extend the end of the phase. At the same time counting votes manually isn't an arcane art (even if it is time consuming) so...

Dunno, I'm very 50/50 on this.

Isn't this person called mod? ;)

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:p

Some mods are comfortable with having players vent to them - others are either busy or it just isn't there thing which is OK.

Jokes aside, the link to the game data is broken Sawneeks but I already saw Aeleus eagerly gathering all the info anyway, so thanks for the work you put in.

1. If people want to use it, let them, don't force though - how is the pronoun situation in general? Do we have less infractions, are they dealt with respectively?
2. I don't think it's feasible.
3. Pin the current recruiting, but keep it short as turmoil says.
4. No complaints here.

5. Geno I understand where you are coming from as a stressed moderator, but this is a top tier luxury issue. Putting pressure on Febe with the expectation of a reliable tool is pretty hardcore. Of course it's nice to have a tool, but if it breaks it breaks. Thanks Fireblend for all the work!
Manually counting votes during End of Day is an art form.

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4. Hard for me to comment on as those links seem to be broken for me.

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Can't believe each link there was broken...

Should be fixed now, thanks for pointing it out!

this a minor thing but Vere made the game too c: Please add his name please >>

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I def agree that the pronoun feature should be encouraged but not mandatory. For players that are uncomfortable with using it, they shouldn't have to at all, but otherwise people should.

---

Finally I have my own personal suggestion... which is that I think we should try and encourage having more games purely on OM. The reason for this is so that members of our community who can't play on Era can get chances to play. After all someone shouldn't be punished and unable to play because of something unrelated to our mafia community.

I know OM doesn't work for everyone, like people whose work have it banned (like Fran), and I'm not saying that all games should be played there or anything, I just feel that we should try and have like maybe one game a season on OM.

The main issue for doing this for games that aren't costume related tho, are issues like the one we had in costume party where scum mixes up the thread. Is there a way we make it so different threads on OM have different backgrounds or something?

Click to shrink...

Fixed! Sorry, Vere!

Natiko has covered most of it but running on Era or OM wouldn't really be against any sort of rule we have. Like Faddy said however, our games and our OTs are how we advertise to find new players and keep our community with enough people to play our games. The constant traffic from the rest of this site is how people can stumble on us! While I don't see any problem running a game here or there on OM instead of Era it couldn't be the majority of them.

Leaving it up to gamerunner's choice seems like a fine option to me. But if we started to get more games on OM than on Era we may have to change that.

To jman1954goat 's question on how this would happen we announce every game on our Discord when they start sign ups. So if somebody wants to play they can contact the gamerunner, the Mafiera Team, or anyone else here that plays with us on Discord, OM, or whatever platform they use to keep in touch with us. We'd just have to verify they have an OM account and are who they say they are - but I trust everyone here, both past and present, so I don't think that would be much of an issue.

This was my idea and I just want to clarify I don't mean 1 designated person on the call all the time for every mafia game. Just anyone who's not playing in the current game who is up to chat. It can be anyone who feels like it in the moment as the need pops up.

The goal is for less people to want to replace out and I heavily disagree that talking to someone will make things worse it's been proven in studies that therapy rarely makes things worse usually either no effect or positive effect. (I know this is not actually therapy although mafia stress is less significant than the stress you go to a real therapist for.)

this would be of course completely optional and if you don't think it would personally help you would choose not to do it. (I think it would greatly helped me during Risk but I understand getting something like this in place is a huge ask.)

If we ever decided to do this I would be up for being the "therapist" when I'm not in a game. ( we would need a better word for it maybe stress chat buddy ?)

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Hi, I hope no one minds me dropping in to give my opinion even though I've played very few games-- I really hope to come back and play more!

One thing that I think might help with recruitment is to have an easily-accessible list with links of past games that are considered particularly fun or interesting to read through. There's a lot of description of what a game is like in the beginning of the thread, but I found that the thing that gave me the best picture was reading the games themselves-- some were intimidatingly long, but some were really fun to read over and had a lot of plot twists.

I also think it might be fun for future readers if the first post of a game was edited to have a link to the mafia chat/other secret chats, so that those who want to read along with spoilers can do so.

I would suggest that for discussion item 2, these volunteers should be called "venting buddies" or similar-- I know nobody's trying to imply that they would be licensed therapists, but I think it would be better not to use the words "therapy" or "therapists" at all, it just opens the door to some potential issues.

That's all I really had to say, pretty much in agreement with the consensus on the other items. Looking forward to the next season!

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Of course not! Honestly I'd say it's encouraged even more for newer players to give input since having new voices and ideas is how we grow. :>

Good idea on the 'games to check out!' list. People have asked for those before too so it might be time we finally did that. Any games in particular you checked out that helped you get an idea of the game?

Having the Scum/Spec chats in the first posts would be nice after a game finished. I know we changed to having the Day Start/End in the opening posts to make it easier to navigate so the same can be here, too. Gentle reminders to gamerunners to do that can be done pretty easily.

 

[RetroMG]

In terms of making it easier to not make a Scum Slip™ post in the game thread, it might be possible to put the game thread in it's own board, and then the private threads like Scum/Lovers/Masons in a separate board. For example, the Risk Mafia board on OM right now has the Spec, Mason, and Scum threads. So if the game was run on there, there could just be a separate board that only had the Game thread.

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I just want to clarify this.

If you are suggesting that we put the various threads into individual forums that are each separate from the one that hosts the game thread... we already do that. We have to.
Because of how site permissions work on OM, every thread is put into an individual forum that is only visible to the people who have been given permission. We cannot lock people out of individual threads in a convenient way. (This is the white whale, I've spent years chasing it.) In the case of a game being hosted on OM, this means that one forum is the game forum, and everyone has access to it, and then the other forums are enabled per user as needed. (In the case of costume games, only costume accounts and gamerunners are allowed to post in the game thread, but everyone can read it.)

All of these individual forums are under a parent forum for the game as a whole. If you would like to move the game thread to it's own parent forum separate from the other thread forums, I guess we could do that. Though I'll be honest, my personal opinion is that not posting your scum plans in the game thread is just part of Mafia. In a live game, you wouldn't laugh maniacally during the night phase as you point to your victim, either. I would probably leave that up to the discretion of the gamerunner, but I'd be curious what the rest of OM team thinks as well. As always, OM is a tool of the community. If most people want it set up that way, we can make that a permanent change.

To address your example of Risk Mafia: That game is now complete. When the game is finished, we move all the threads into one forum with no permissions in place, which makes all the threads open to everybody. This is what we mean when we say we've "opened the boards." (We used to go in and remove the permission locks from the forums, but this is easier and faster.)

I hope this helps. I'm always happy to take constructive suggestions on how OM is operated for games.

(Note: I went a lot into how the sausage gets made so that more people are aware of it. This wasn't purely targeted at Fanto.)

 

[rac]

I don't know that we would ever tell a gamerunner where they can or can't run a game. Marvel was ran on OM and I don't think it had any costume elements for instance.

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it did :(

 

[Stantastic]

Can't believe each link there was broken...

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its cool i wont tell anyone.

 

[Natiko]

it did :(

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My memory is bad okay lol

 

[jman1954goat]

Hm, not sure what to do on this one. A lot of people view the vote tool as an essential part of the game so missing it would give a decent reason to extend the end of the phase. At the same time counting votes manually isn't an arcane art (even if it is time consuming) so...

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personally I'm pro time extension. extending time changes the flow of eod but so does not having a vote tool.

I feel the time extension helps people get a better understanding of where the vote is vs how random normal time eod feels without the tool.

Time was extended twice during risk Once it helped town once it hurt town so i dont feel like either team gets a distinct advantage from an extension it just helps fix the Rng of not knowing the vote count.

counting votes by hand is almost impossible if the tool breaks right before the day ends in 5 minutes and multiple people are swapping votes the extra time is 100% needed.

 

[Verelios]

I think both Loki and Faddy make good points about thread visibility and player retention. If we want to take the best of both worlds and have new players join after seeing our games, while old and current (and banned) players are accomodated, then one main game and a few minis being hosted at OM per season isn't a bad idea, especially games that may be more creative and less vanilla mafia.

As for the venting buddies, it's a good idea if we keep in mind that it's not therapy. I'd be more than happy to talk shit with anyone when needed.

 

[lokiduck]

I think both Loki and Faddy make good points about thread visibility and player retention. If we want to take the best of both worlds and have new players join after seeing our games, while old and current (and banned) players are accomodated, then one main game and a few minis being hosted at OM per season isn't a bad idea, especially games that may be more creative and less vanilla mafia.

As for the venting buddies, it's a good idea if we keep in mind that it's not therapy. I'd be more than happy to talk shit with anyone when needed.

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Yeah c: We def need to advertise on here and keep a lot of our games on here to attract new players, but one game on OM isn't going to hurt.

We can definitely save the most new player getting games for Era, though that should be up to the Game Runner in the end.

 

[malus]

personally I'm pro time extension. extending time changes the flow of eod but so does not having a vote tool.

I feel the time extension helps people get a better understanding of where the vote is vs how random normal time eod feels without the tool.

Time was extended twice during risk Once it helped town once it hurt town so i dont feel like either team gets a distinct advantage from an extension it just helps fix the Rng of not knowing the vote count.

counting votes by hand is almost impossible if the tool breaks right before the day ends in 5 minutes and multiple people are swapping votes the extra time is 100% needed.

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I feel that's on the players in that case. Even with a working vote tool it can be hard to grasp what's actually going on if there's a lot of vote movement.

 

[lokiduck]

I agree with others that if the game should end at the normal set time, even if the vote tool has crashed. Time extensions in games where that's a rule for say ties are fight, but those extra minutes can really affect a game. I've seen it happen quite a bit in games where extensions were a thing.

If the tool has crashed, then the game should still end at the set time, so the game runner can focus on counting the votes manually. If you have an extension because of the crash, it can lead day end in a really weird direction, but the game runner now has to still moderate an active EoD and manually count the votes.

 

[Verelios]

Yeah c: We def need to advertise on here and keep a lot of our games on here to attract new players, but one game on OM isn't going to hurt.

We can definitely save the most new player getting games for Era, though that should be up to the Game Runner in the end.

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Yeah, of course. There's going to be some preference with game runners on where they want to host and it's fair to respect that.

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah, of course. There's going to be some preference with game runners on where they want to host and it's fair to respect that.

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100% c:

 

[Aeleus]

Firstly Risk mafia has been added to the sheet

Era has a new system in place to allow users to show their pronouns underneath their username and avatar on their posts. We are of the mind to not make this feature mandatory for our games as some people may not be comfortable with publicly showing their pronouns in that matter. Thoughts?

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Era also has a new feature that allows an OTs opening post to be pinned and show up on every page! We're thinking about trying that out and making the first post about currently recruiting games so it appears more frequently. What do you all think?

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Like the sound of both of these ideas

Finally, what do you think of the changes since the last review thread? We simplified the OT, made a Mafia terms glossary, and placed all documents on OM.

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I've liked all of these changes though the OT is still saying transistor sign ups are on :P

The idea of having a designated individual to talk with/vent to during a game was brought up and we wanted everyone's thoughts on it. This would be a volunteer position and the 'mafia therapist' would be someone a player could vent to/talk to about a game if need be. Like a mentor, this person would not be able to speak about events in-game.

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I agree with others that this idea is impractical and unfair on the ventee even if we remove the therapist connotations (though if we want to come together as a community to send one of our members on a journey towards being a licensed therapist I guess that's cool too). Perhaps we can note in the opening post of each game which game runners/watchers are happy to hear mad ramblings/venting (this would also hopefully remove the problem of players spamming a busy gamerunner)

Hosting more games on OM so past players can join in

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I think there's no harm in running a game on OM like this every once in a while, maybe we could run a mini next season to test the waters and see who would be interested (I'd be happy to run it, I've got some open set ups I'm interested in)

Time extensions

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Time extensions should be up to the gamerunner, the vote tool is a gift and if players want to avoid the risk of a tie they shouldn't wait till EOD to decide the days outcome >:)

 

[Kyanrute]

Day extensions should not happen if the vote tool is down, even when there is no moderator available to give a official vote count. The tie rule is whatever, I don't fancy it but I don't think it is anything outrageous either.

I don't like extensions because giving them out removes predictability from the game and they can also be a band-aid to bad town play and on the other hand they can harm scum doing plays that rely on clever usage of time. Chaotic day ends are not something inherent to the game - the chaos comes from the plays that the players do or don't do. If the day end becomes chaotic, it should not be made less chaotic by extending the day.

 

[empressdonna]

In regards to the time extension discussion, what about in situations when era itself is down?

I know it is rare for it be down for that long but just curious what the consensus is on that ^^

 

[Stuart444]

1. Era has a new system in place to allow users to show their pronouns underneath their username and avatar on their posts. We are of the mind to not make this feature mandatory for our games as some people may not be comfortable with publicly showing their pronouns in that matter. Thoughts?
2. The idea of having a designated individual to talk with/vent to during a game was brought up and we wanted everyone's thoughts on it. This would be a volunteer position and the 'mafia therapist' would be someone a player could vent to/talk to about a game if need be. Like a mentor, this person would not be able to speak about events in-game.
3. Era also has a new feature that allows an OTs opening post to be pinned and show up on every page! We're thinking about trying that out and making the first post about currently recruiting games so it appears more frequently. What do you all think?

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1. I understand not making it mandatory but I do agree on encouraging it's use. Even if it's only for the duration of the game. But yeah, making it mandatory would just discourage people from signing up I think.

2. While it sounds like a good idea on paper, I worry that in practice, it may cause more problems than it solves. Just a feeling.

3. Great idea if it works!

 

[MrHedin]

personally I'm pro time extension. extending time changes the flow of eod but so does not having a vote tool.

I feel the time extension helps people get a better understanding of where the vote is vs how random normal time eod feels without the tool.

Time was extended twice during risk Once it helped town once it hurt town so i dont feel like either team gets a distinct advantage from an extension it just helps fix the Rng of not knowing the vote count.

counting votes by hand is almost impossible if the tool breaks right before the day ends in 5 minutes and multiple people are swapping votes the extra time is 100% needed.

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There is no RNG of the vote count, the count is the count. At the end of the day it's pretty much always obvious which trains are present, you may not know the exact count but its generally pretty easy to tell where things might be headed (the main exception would be some D1s).

Take my lunch on D3 in Risk. It was going to be Uzzy, tool goes down, and an extension is granted and I was the one lunched even though there was nothing really started against me at the time the day would have normally ended. I said in spec that was I was disappointed but not mad personally because I felt like I was playing bad but if either Uzzy or I had been scum or one of us had a town power role that changes the game a lot.

 

[Geno]

Yeah extensions that are not rule based will not happen again in my games, if vote tool dies and votes shift around last minute then it is what it is.

 

[jman1954goat]

Perhaps we can note in the opening post of each game which game runners/watchers are happy to hear mad ramblings/venting (this would also hopefully remove the problem of players spamming a busy gamerunner)

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I mean this is almost the exact same thing just tweaked in details.

I would just expand the "venting buddy" list to Non game runner volunteer 's as well.

 

[Geno]

1. Agreed
2. I don't think this sounds good even on paper and I would certainly not wanna be the person to vent to, I don't see a good reason for this to exist.
3. Sure
4. I think we did gain a few new people last season so I would say it was a success.