I missed that. I suppose they needed a card pool to play with while developing during pre-alpha, alpha, etc.
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Magic: The Gathering |OT| Dominaria - Only 90's Kids Will Remember
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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I missed that. I suppose they needed a card pool to play with while developing during pre-alpha, alpha, etc.
not really it's bo1s so 10 games max. IRL draft has 4 to 9 games depending on if you 0-2 drop.
ran some numbers:
need a 75% win rate to break even in draft. it might be possible for some players if the skill level is significantly lower than mtgo, but those numbers are mostly unattainable outside of real drafting (playing people outside your draft pod significantly nerfs skill and clumps win rates closer to 50%)
for 50% win rate, you can expect around 350 gems
so it's about 400 gems for about 3 rares (which you might not even draft) and the extra "1 to 3 boosters" (whatever that means). i'm assuming it means that, in total, you get access to about 5 rares from the experience
with 60% win rate, you can maybe get those 5 rares for 250 gems
with 40% win rate, it cost about 520 gems
so 5 rares might cost between $1.25 and $2.60 (depending on performance)
edit:
this might paste
need a 75% win rate to break even in draft. it might be possible for some players if the skill level is significantly lower than mtgo, but those numbers are mostly unattainable outside of real drafting (playing people outside your draft pod significantly nerfs skill and clumps win rates closer to 50%)
for 50% win rate, you can expect around 350 gems
so it's about 400 gems for about 3 rares (which you might not even draft) and the extra "1 to 3 boosters" (whatever that means). i'm assuming it means that, in total, you get access to about 5 rares from the experience
with 60% win rate, you can maybe get those 5 rares for 250 gems
with 40% win rate, it cost about 520 gems
so 5 rares might cost between $1.25 and $2.60 (depending on performance)
edit:
this might paste
Code:
reward result 50% WR 60% WR 70% WR 75% WR 40% WR
50 0 0.12466 0.06392 0.02721 0.0158 0.21815
100 1 0.18819 0.11579 0.057 0.03547 0.25783
200 2 0.18686 0.13923 0.07994 0.05212 0.20611
300 3 0.15648 0.13589 0.09221 0.0679 0.13876
450 4 0.11677 0.12435 0.09636 0.07484 0.08354
650 5 0.08218 0.10396 0.09594 0.07777 0.04674
850 6 0.05411 0.08472 0.08916 0.07856 0.02399
950 7 0.09074 0.23213 0.46217 0.59754 0.02487
EV 347.528 499.455 671.282 753.7985 231.5325
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Hmm, the way math works out here is interesting. The pack value per draft varies quite a bit depending on whether you use golds or gems.
For drafts, 1000g = 150 gems = $1
For packs, 1000g = 200 gems = $1.34
In gold, draft entry is worth 5 packs, while in gems, draft is worth 3.75 packs. So if we consider the loss of Wild Cards negligeable downside, real-money spenders are particularly incentivized to draft. Also, the other way around as well (make drafters put more money into the game), as we'll see in the draft rewards.
Aah, there's the catch.
Now, generally, I think the rates are fine. 2-win run guaranteeing you your gold's worth as f2p player is perfectly fine. Going "infinite" on 6 and 7 is on par with other card games, and 7 wins basically doubling your investment is proper amount.
Giving back gems is really sneaky tho, not sure how else to word it. 5-3 record leaves you 100 gems away from having an another run, and you can't replace the remainder with your gold, or unopened packs, even if at inefficient rate. Pay $5 or grind 5k gold again. "Doing tomorrow's daily and coming back" is not an option.
Your premise in the edits is wrong, because you assume draft chaff Commons to be the same importance as any other card, be it Uncommon, Rare, Mythic, or a Wild Card, which do not exist in draft packs.
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The value is substantially better than I expected. MTGO draft events fire all the time with negative EV in the $3-4 range, so there's definitely precedent for the "experience" of a draft having significant value for some players. $5 keeper drafts in a better client than MTGO should print money.
The issue is that AI drafts are not real drafts. Once people know which cards and archetypes are undervalued by the AI, the format will stop resembling the real thing.
AI drafters, weekend-only drafts, and randomized rewards are all bafflingly awful decisions. I assume the latter two are going away after beta, hopefully the former is too.
The issue is that AI drafts are not real drafts. Once people know which cards and archetypes are undervalued by the AI, the format will stop resembling the real thing.
AI drafters, weekend-only drafts, and randomized rewards are all bafflingly awful decisions. I assume the latter two are going away after beta, hopefully the former is too.
ah right, I forgot about that. We'll have to see how well they price the actual draft mode
You shouldn't expect to go infinite in Draft unless you are extremely good. Hearthstone is the same way. As long as the pack value and prizes at 50% winrate are about equivalent to straight purchasing packs then the mode is fine.
$1 per pack seems about expected. Should be a little cheaper if they really want to compete with Hearthstone.
$1 per pack seems about expected. Should be a little cheaper if they really want to compete with Hearthstone.
Yeah. I realized that while out walking on my lunch break. Thanks for the breakdown. You're only really up one uncommon (especially since I doubt the draft packs will have foils that could potentially be rare/mythic) compared to the 8 card regular pack.
They confirmed again on stream that pod drafts are coming. So these should be non-issues over the long run.
I'm guessing that draft vs humans will be more expensive, will be noted as "Competitive", and will have best-of-3.
Because I can buy a deck, decide I don't like it and then play something else within 10 minutes.
Also, the UI in MTGO is dramatically better than Arena's. It's uglier, but it's far more functional for competitive play.
Thanks and thanks to others. Yeah, I think that'll do. Hmm... :P
Also, everyone on Arena is SLOW AS FUCKING FUCK. People on MTGO are already fucking slow as hell, but Arena is almost unplayable under certain circumstances.
Arena runs like shit on older computers. And I mean complete dogshit.
It's not just the interface, people just do nothing for minutes at a time on either client.
Economy thoughts:
- Focusing on gold rewards is the right move. Being able to open a pack or constructed event with a single days rewards gives you a satisfying goal to work towards each day and the events seem like a decent way for grinders to keep earning rewards.
- A little bummed about the pack price, I was hoping for something between .75 and $1.
- Draft price seems good since it's a keeper draft. I wonder if the reward rates will change once drafts are available any time. Resticting them to special weekends may make them more generous than they would otherwise be.
- Focusing on gold rewards is the right move. Being able to open a pack or constructed event with a single days rewards gives you a satisfying goal to work towards each day and the events seem like a decent way for grinders to keep earning rewards.
- A little bummed about the pack price, I was hoping for something between .75 and $1.
- Draft price seems good since it's a keeper draft. I wonder if the reward rates will change once drafts are available any time. Resticting them to special weekends may make them more generous than they would otherwise be.
I was right on guessing $1 for bulk packs and $5 drafts. Honestly, I'm thrilled. I love drafting but I'm not great at it, and the EV is much more generous than I'm used to as a casual player. Not only that, to keep costs down I normally prefer phantom drafts, but for cheaper than a phantom draft I get to keep the cards as a gateway to constructed. I do think the existence of gems at all is a filthy scam. Hearthstone does it right - a free currency, and if you want to buy something you buy it directly for a real money price.
*edit* I think the draft structure/rewards are very much geared towards casual players like me. I hope they also provide a "competitive" mode with higher risk/reward to satisfy serious grinders.
*edit* I think the draft structure/rewards are very much geared towards casual players like me. I hope they also provide a "competitive" mode with higher risk/reward to satisfy serious grinders.
maybe you're playing against beginners. A lot of people in the beta have probably never even played Magic. It's definitely more casual than MTGO
I haven't really run into many instances of slow play or grieving. Most games go reasonably fast for me now when both players have some experience with the matchup
I completely agree with this, there is no good reason to "force" the players to log in each day
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the one thing that sticks out as terrible w/ the new economy is that they are keeping the daily win rewards. The guaranteed rare on the 4th win is a terrible idea. The value across those 4 wins every day is better spread out among weekly rewards so you don't make players feel compelled to play the game every single day and like they are missing out not getting there.
the saga animation in arena is really pretty, though
(can't link video) https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/8eytdv/sagas_in_arena_o/
(can't link video) https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/8eytdv/sagas_in_arena_o/
Damn. The new summoning sickness animation looks great on that knight token too. Game looks way better than I thought it would tbh.
To anyone skeptical about U/R in draft, it can work. I just 3-0'd a singles draft. My deck:
Three bombs does help although I never actually drew Zahid. I won a few games with just Champion of the Flame / Valduk shenanigans. It's probably the only way U/R can compete on the ground. Only equipment I saw was Short Sword so had to play a few auras as well. Arcane Flight is pretty decent actually and even Frenzied Rage has won me a game. If your opponent plays a lot of removal, you're pretty much screwed, though that tends to happen to U/R anyway in limited. Icy Manipulator is so so important. At least two opponents had their own Icy so it revolved into Icy wars where I tapped his down so I could attack. The upside of blue over white is that you can play card draw. Whereas my opponents eventually ran out of gas, I could keep digging for relevant spells (Artificer's Assistant is underrated especially when you have Short Sword.) Blue was cut pretty hard though which I couldn't do much about since p1p1 was Zahid. With some more tempo spells like Academy Journeymage and a few more fliers and you have a solid deck. Too bad white has the better common and uncommon fliers so U/W and W/R are probably still more solid overall.
Three bombs does help although I never actually drew Zahid. I won a few games with just Champion of the Flame / Valduk shenanigans. It's probably the only way U/R can compete on the ground. Only equipment I saw was Short Sword so had to play a few auras as well. Arcane Flight is pretty decent actually and even Frenzied Rage has won me a game. If your opponent plays a lot of removal, you're pretty much screwed, though that tends to happen to U/R anyway in limited. Icy Manipulator is so so important. At least two opponents had their own Icy so it revolved into Icy wars where I tapped his down so I could attack. The upside of blue over white is that you can play card draw. Whereas my opponents eventually ran out of gas, I could keep digging for relevant spells (Artificer's Assistant is underrated especially when you have Short Sword.) Blue was cut pretty hard though which I couldn't do much about since p1p1 was Zahid. With some more tempo spells like Academy Journeymage and a few more fliers and you have a solid deck. Too bad white has the better common and uncommon fliers so U/W and W/R are probably still more solid overall.
I see 4 bombs. Icy, siege gang and verix are top10 cards in the set. Zahid top20 probably.To anyone skeptical about U/R in draft, it can work. I just 3-0'd a singles draft. My deck:
Three bombs does help although I never actually drew Zahid. I won a few games with just Champion of the Flame / Valduk shenanigans. It's probably the only way U/R can compete on the ground. Only equipment I saw was Short Sword so had to play a few auras as well. Arcane Flight is pretty decent actually and even Frenzied Rage has won me a game. If your opponent plays a lot of removal, you're pretty much screwed, though that tends to happen to U/R anyway in limited. Icy Manipulator is so so important. At least two opponents had their own Icy so it revolved into Icy wars where I tapped his down so I could attack. The upside of blue over white is that you can play card draw. Whereas my opponents eventually ran out of gas, I could keep digging for relevant spells (Artificer's Assistant is underrated especially when you have Short Sword.) Blue was cut pretty hard though which I couldn't do much about since p1p1 was Zahid. With some more tempo spells like Academy Journeymage and a few more fliers and you have a solid deck. Too bad white has the better common and uncommon fliers so U/W and W/R are probably still more solid overall.
Arguably time of ice is an unco bomb too.
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that's a sick deck but doesn't make me any less skeptical about U/R.
excess cards of any rarity were worth 0,1% vault progress (so far, don't know if that changes with the update). The only real way to open the vault is to buy boosters, which add something like 3% or 3,5% iirc
I wish there was a way to cheat Overwhelming Splendor on the battlefield in standard. I just got one from the last daily card rewards
also, I'm already fairly sure that knight decks will be everywhere
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You also get between 1 and 3 boosters as prizes for draft which do contribute to your vault progress. You get the packs even if you don't win a single game.
Commons were 0.1%, uncommons were 0.3%, rares 0.5% and mythics 1% and packs were 4%.
With the update it's changing to 0.111%, 0.333% 0.555% and 1.111% and 3.333%, respectively.
When a 7/7 flyer with trample comes at you on t3, I want you to think about me.
ah, my bad, sorry
excess rares and mythic are still feel-bad, though
*avatar quote on mobile*
that's not the Izzet way. You should ping them for 1 damage each turn
at least I can pierce the sky that :P. Not like a 7/7 trampler menace is all that beatable on turn 3 w/o flying. Red is the much bigger contributing factor there, whether it's a shortsword or arcane flight doesn't make all that much of a difference.
at 1‰ for a common it doesn't add up quickly. Hard to say just how many more uncommons you'll pick up in your average draft but if we just compare how many more cards are in a draft pack (5 commons, 1 Uncommon) they add up to less than 1% vault progress per pack.
Voltron is Izzet when you think about it. They just like to give green better Voltrons. We'll show them who's king of shoddy combos!
Regardless of if you go zero or 7 wins, the prize packs are always 1-3 packs. The wins earn you a different amount of the paid currency. 7 wins gets you 950 of the paid currency, or ~$6.50
You get 1-3 packs no matter how many games you win. Your record determines the number of gems you get.
Draft cost 750 gems
Yea I will only run UR if other combinations are really really blocked.
I won another draft yesterday with WB
There are many synergies in Dominaria, I love it. And they don't take bombs per se to activate. E.G. I got 3 activations of a saga:
Also:
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Is way too much value at some point.
Should have designed a looter that loots with every historic spell. Can't even remember the last time a set had looters. Guess looters are too good for limited now.Also:
+
Is way too much value at some point.
I finally got a match loss in Historic Standard. I know I could have won, too. Damn you sequencing in 20 turn games! Damn you!
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