It has a ton of permanent exile effects for creatures, the vast majority of them being conditional. It also gets 5 mana unconditional exile for creatures and artifacts.
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Magic: the Gathering |OT| Theros: Beyond Death - Zombie Land Saga
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Frosty cold take that some think is spicy: fight on creatures is terrible and should never happen, at least in green. Maybe red.
Green shouldn't have efficient creature removal, especially removal that's a damn 2 for 1. Wicked Wolf is still far too good. Voracious Hydra is too efficient. Leave it to spells that require creatures, a green resource, or make it all but a certainty that a fight creature dies in a fight.
Red is usually toughness light or doesn't have outsized stats to CMC ratios, thus it's more likely a 1:1 kill.
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Regarding green ETB fight, MaRo said they're going to try out "When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, another target creature you control fights target creature an opponent controls", so it still depends on you already having a creature. ETB fight will be tested in red instead.
Oh, that's White's weakness.
I could have sworn it was "White can't draw cards" or "White can't ramp" or "White can't tie its own shoelaces."
I'm disappointed by the spoilers so far, I only play limited and it feels like they're powering this set down compared to the last few. I loved drafting War of the Spark and M20 (I skipped Eldraine), pretty huge bummer that we're already returning to the days when the common black removal spell cost 5 and had some marginal additional effect (I know exile is relevant in this set, but still).
We haven't seen the full set so hopefully I'll end up being wrong, but I remember being really surprised at the power level of some of the cards in the last few sets. Even the mythics in this seem far more deliberately balanced. Probably for the best after the recent bans, but I hope they spice things up again going forward.
We haven't seen the full set so hopefully I'll end up being wrong, but I remember being really surprised at the power level of some of the cards in the last few sets. Even the mythics in this seem far more deliberately balanced. Probably for the best after the recent bans, but I hope they spice things up again going forward.
No, this seems deece.
Oh look Polu is back...
OH NO Polu is back...
Mire's Grasp is solid common removal for 2 mana, More importantly, as with the last Theros Block, devotion and heroic mean that removal in general needs to be powered down for them to do their thing effectively.
Here are lists of mono-black and mono-white spells and enchantments that permanently exile creatures and were newly printed over the last 10 years. If you add in creatures and planeswalkers, white gets a ton of exile as planeswalker effects (usually ultimates) and black gets a bunch as creature effects. Black's exile on average is more efficient, but there are a couple of white standouts; mostly ones that are tying to do a swords imitation such as Dispatch.
Black (23 cards) - White (20 cards)
In the early years they spent a lot of time trying to "fix" swords to plowshares, the same way they kept putting the nonblack, nonartifact rider on black removal spells. It was some kind of weird tradition that they realized didn't make much sense. They've gotten out of that habit years and years ago.
after 3 sets in a row with broken 3 cmc planeswalkers, this one is definitely going to be powered down just by not having a broken 3 cmc walker
That's not a limited issue though.
I disagree so far that it seems powered down in limited however.
Thank fuck planeswalkers have ruined this game. I'd rather jump dick first into a cactus than play war of the spark meta again
will wait to see more commons before judging limited
lower power level limited is a good thing though imo. it means you can win a game on the draw. or block with creatures. or miss a land drop and not autolose
lower power level limited is a good thing though imo. it means you can win a game on the draw. or block with creatures. or miss a land drop and not autolose
I actually hadn't seen Mire's Grasp, that does seem good. And I understand removal may be toned down to facilitate this set's mechanics, but it's not just the removal. During the M20 and War spoilers it seemed like every other card was just nuts, there were so many cards I couldn't wait to play with. For this set I'm seeing a lot more cards where I think "Eh, that could be good in the right deck I guess," and a lot of cards that will surely be limited staples but just aren't as exciting.
I wouldn't have been surprised to see cards like Stinging Lionfish and Archon of Falling Stars and Chainweb Aracnir at common in the last few sets. Maybe they would have costed one more or had slightly worse stats, but they seem pretty meh. I know it makes no sense to pick out two cards in different colors to compare, but I feel like Rotting Regisaur and Nessian Boar sum up my feeling toward the spoilers so far. Regisaur made me do a double-take, it was insane that they printed those stats at that cost in a core set, and the downside really wasn't that big of a deal in limited. You could play a low curve and keep a couple lands in hand, you could just wait to play it when you were top-decking, you definitely had to have a game plan but it was a great, fun card. Meanwhile the Boar seems much less interesting. Maybe there will be easy ways of enchanting it to give it evasion or trample, but at face value it just seems unplayable.
Anyway, like I said, hopefully I'm wrong and the set will be amazing, I'm just not feeling excited by the cards revealed so far.
It's a difference in opinion, but the bolded mindset, to me, is what's wrong with the game.
Dawn Evangel; The Triumph of Anax; Thassa, Deep-Dwelling; "Ash Phoenix" (?); "Callaphe, Beloved of the Sea" (?); Haktos the Unscarred; Omen of the Forge; Omen of the Sun; "Saprophage Harpy" (?); Shimmerwing Chimera
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Weird card. Most often, you want to use this with auras like Mire's Grasp to kill your opponent's creatures. You can use it on your own creature in a pinch (including Dawn Evangel). And of course, it incidentally helps your own enchanted creatures.
Anax being one of the major characters of the first block. The fight part not being effected by the previous steps feels odd, but this is a good card.
Oh hey Thassa flickers, what a surprise
I like how the constellation has her bident, but her main card doesn't because Kiora stole it.
Ash Phoenix 1RR
Flying Haste
2R: +2+0 until eot
Escape 2RR, exile 3 cards
Escapes with a +1+1 counter on it
2/2
Of course there had to be a phoenix with escape. Seems good.
New character for this demigod.
Since people have asked on Discord, increasing the cost of spells that target you or stuff you control has only ever been in blue.
More details about the stygian mechanic, and this preview card representing Achilles.
Pretty interesting. The random choice was specifically to prevent opponents from metagaming it. Note that it's protection from every other converted mana cost, and that protection prevents him from being blocked.
Seems decent.
Also seems decent. I feel like "create two 1/1s and gain 2 life" at 2W on an instant already saw play recently.
Saprophage Harpy - 2B
Creature - Harpy
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, exile target card from an opponent's graveyard.
2/1
Shimmerwing Chimera seems like it would be good in Limited.
I know it's basically the same Boros attack all the time kind of card, but the Achilles' Heel flavour is fucking awesome. That's really cool and unique.
I really like Haktos, though he might be a bit frustrating if you lack mass removal or a variety of single-target removal spells. Could be a fun Commander.
Thankfully you can't put Embercleave on him.
Thankfully you can't put Embercleave on him.
"The First Iroan Games" (?)
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The First Iroan Games 2G
Enchantment - Saga (Rare)
I: Create a 1/1 white Human soldier token.
II: Put three +1/+1 counters on target creature you control.
III: If you control a creature with power 4 or more, draw two cards.
IV: Create a Gold token.
Gold tokens are artifacts with "Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color." Unlike Treasure, it doesn't tap. Gold tokens were created before Treasure tokens but mostly abandoned for the latter because tapping made it safer. They used Gold here purely for flavor reasons, I imagine.
I'd say it feels bant or at least WG, but G can draw cards and gain life, so mono G it is. Green gets all the toys, even though I think this could be a mono W card.
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Also I should probably mention that the card is insane. You're basically paying 3 mana to get a 4/4 that threatens to draw two cards in a couple turns and if you're playing stuff like Questing Beast or Lovestruck Beast they can't even kill the 4/4 to stop the draw. You basically have to kill the enchantment itself the turn it comes down or things are going to get out of hand fast.
White has thrown a +1/+1 counter around here and there. And I don't think making gold isn't not white. The card would be a hard bend in white, not a break. IMO.
How is it slow? The first moment you go to attack with it, the card is already a 4/4 for 3 mana.
Yep, the only part you don't get is the first block, which isn't nothing, but it isn't insanely bad, considering the upside if it sticks another turn.
It really bugs me seeing Green draw two if you have a creature with power 4 or greater on the same card that gives you a creature with power 4 or greater.
Green doesn't feel dependent on its creatures for card draw and removal when those effects are packed in with the creatures.
For the card itself, I think it'll see plenty of play; works well with Lovestruck Beast and is pretty efficient on its own.
Green doesn't feel dependent on its creatures for card draw and removal when those effects are packed in with the creatures.
For the card itself, I think it'll see plenty of play; works well with Lovestruck Beast and is pretty efficient on its own.
Look at the stuff that gets played in green right now. I'm having a hard time seeing this breaking through.
The most played Green creature is a 3 mana 5/5 that can't attack unless you control a 1/1... Which this card provides.
Play patterns
You, Turn 3: Play Iroan Games
Opponent Passes
Turn 4: Target 1/1 human with counters
Opponent: Haha I kill the human in response. gottem
You: Play Questing Beast
Opponent: Shit, let's hope I draw another removal spell off the top
You, Turn 3 on the play: Play Iroan Games
Opponent: Plays Thrashing Brontodon, cries tears
Honestly guys I'm running through these play patterns in my head and it's all upside for whoever plays the card
You, Turn 3: Play Iroan Games
Opponent Passes
Turn 4: Target 1/1 human with counters
Opponent: Haha I kill the human in response. gottem
You: Play Questing Beast
Opponent: Shit, let's hope I draw another removal spell off the top
You, Turn 3 on the play: Play Iroan Games
Opponent: Plays Thrashing Brontodon, cries tears
Honestly guys I'm running through these play patterns in my head and it's all upside for whoever plays the card
The mana cost is only a single green pip as well. Easily slides into a Starfield Mystic deck. Which uh, might be a thing since that card works so well with Sagas.
3 mana green card on turn 3? It'll come out turn 2 and you'll like it.
I can feel my soul crushing into a black hole reading this thread.
I suppose you could also use it to "reload" nu-Polukranos. Though maybe they don't fit in the same kind of deck, and it couldn't be done on curve.
I'm serious. This saga is really fucking good.
One of the strongest things about History of Benalia was how a second History was backbreaking when you had one out. This is the same thing.
Tymaret, Chosen from Death
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Pious Wayfarer
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Erebos's Intervention
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What exactly is what's wrong with the game? I don't see how pushed commons and uncommons that make limited more interesting do any harm.
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