Man who taught dog Nazi salute found guilty of hate crime
- Thread starter EightBitNate
- Start date
Well, that's a crux of the matter - i don't have anything to do with neither America nor Western Europe, yet somehow i am partially responsible for murders caused by nazis just because i pointed out that you don't have an actual argument besides appeal to emotions. It seems to me that your only concern is that particular person gets punished by the government, while ideological consistancy can be thrown out of the window, as long as people you don't like are the ones targeted.
So long as the ISIS sympathisers aren't actually doing anything but marching, they should be allowed the freedom to do so like we always let the Nazis do. Free speech covers a lot of expressions!
Without following the case in too much detail, I'd presume that it's the right to offend - and whether this (under examination of law) crosses that into being grossly offensive.
I particularly remember the case of the baying mob that terrorised Stella Creasy (who was my MP at the time) and Caroline Criado-Perez after the latter had successfully lobbied the Bank of England to put another woman's face on a banknote to replace one who had been swapped out. The irrationality of the attacks was quite inexplicable. As the case history records, three people were prosecuted. All three received brief custodial sentences, 8 weeks, 12 weeks and 18 weeks respectively.
This latest case didn't target any individuals, so I don't think a custodial sentence is at all likely. The very wide circulation of the antisemitic statements, though, tends to aggravate the offence.
It's much simpler than that.
Any action like this that helps perpetuate racism shouldn't be allowed. As there's literally no other value to teaching your dog a nazi salute aside from making racists snigger, there's no problem with the way it was handled.
Lol at the dog having his wang out while looking sad/guilty.
Good he doesn't get away with it. Now my black pug probably will get hated on by that brainwashed 'superior' fawn.
I don't disagree, the comparison I responded to was "we shouldn't allow this because we wouldn't allow that", and I don't think they're anywhere near the same thing.
Am I a racist because I laughed at the absurdity of teaching a pug something so offensive?
because you said there was no other value to it beside to make racists chuckle.
You said there was no other value to this other than making racists snigger.
That fat gobshite? Better reopen the mines...
I'll never support Scottish independence (not that I'll get a vote if it comes to it), but I'll tell you what: if you guys ever go it alone I'll wish you all the best. How about that? :-)
Yeah, that sounds implausible at best, outright ignorant at worst. I don't even know where to begin unpacking everything wrong with that statement.
For some reason, the NYPost took an image of the dog with a red rocket and made it look like it was appalled by the communism tattoo lol
https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/nazi-dog-3.jpg?quality=90&strip=all
Although it's not appearing on the article
https://nypost.com/2016/04/20/man-turns-girlfriends-dog-into-little-growling-nazi/
I'll take it, but I might be in jail for posting "grossly offensive" remarks about Arsenal's title hopes in the FootyEra topic.
No, leave it up. It's not extreme because I've seen the same nonsense it's no acceptable.
As a non white person, I hate those type of comments because one of the things from so many cultures around the world, and specifically the Americas, is that we have all grabbed from various cultures and made it our own. My people's culture is taking European, African, Middle Eastern and indigenous culture and making it our own. What is important though, is being AWARE that that's the case. We all owe evening to so many rich various cultures, including various European cultures. Even the European background from my mother's side, from the region her ancestors hailed from, was the result of local culture mixing with foreign cultures after we were invaded.
It's not but at the same time it is because it generalized and it many times comes with contempt which does come off as racist to me. Now it's not the same as saying "kill all white people", yes, of course. That said, I have seen violent remarks made in the past on the old forum. Won't speak about this forum cause I see mods stomp it out.
There's nothing wrong with the statement and it's something we should be aiming for as best we can.
And with things like this, where there's literally no value to the action, it's very easy to unpack.
That's not valuable though, obviously, and it's not a direct response to the joke itself but the absurdity surrounding it.
So yeh, no other value.
Listening to this destiny debate, I could not give a shit lol. It may not be right but you don't see people dying on a hill for other injustices.
Considering who it was, I figured teaching the dog to do a Laura Ingraham was something he'd already done separate from committing some more common hate crime
I think what he did is in poor taste but the joke he is making is pretty clear.
His wife brags about the dog being cute. Nazi's are not cute (aka bad). I'm going to make this cute thing ugly. That's the whole joke. He knows and thinks Nazi's are bad.
Poor taste, but clearly is not an advocate of Naziism.
Unless there is something I'm missing.
His wife brags about the dog being cute. Nazi's are not cute (aka bad). I'm going to make this cute thing ugly. That's the whole joke. He knows and thinks Nazi's are bad.
Poor taste, but clearly is not an advocate of Naziism.
Unless there is something I'm missing.
See, I disagree. The absurdity of a pug doing something so offensive was the joke IMO.
We don't know enough to know if he is or isn't, but stuff like this DOES help perpetuate racism.
It does harm, it's stupid, the punishment is fine.
Even if that's the case, the damage something like this does far outweighs any value.
You can find other absurd things to laugh about that don't help perpetuate racism. Not a big sacrifice for you.
Them not being on the same level is irrelevant to the point that poster was making, which is that any displays of free speech, regardless of degree, by white supremacists are more tolerated than those of black and brown terrorist groups; hell, there are a few posters here whose shtick is literally just to defend "non-violent" displays of Nazism. Overall, he's lamenting the obvious racism, but if you need a more direct comparison just like for any dialogue on Charlottesville.
Jail time for being stupid and careless is extreme.
We are talking about hypothetical harm. Not physical or measurable harm that can be traced. Law needs to be based on the objective to be fair and just.
At least that's my opinion.
It's only terrifying if you're a Nazi in the UK.
If you are such a person, just come to America. The majority here will accept you as a misguided troublemaker who just needs to sit on a liberal's lap and be educated.
Nepenthe, you continuously make extreme straw man cases and exaggerations that are very questionable at times.
Stop it, please. This is how misinformation spreads.
I'm guessing you are being heavily tongue in cheek since that movie heavily features Nazi imagery.
Podcast segment - https://youtu.be/-fTnuqbxxW4
Socially unacceptable, but not necessarily something you should potentially face jail time for if you were simply being an idiot/trying to be funny with mates (an actual Nazi march in the UK would be shut down and charged with terrorism). This wasn't in the public sphere though, it was on YouTube. YT isn't exactly the same as in a public square. You have to consent to watch a YT video, as strange as that sounds.
No, the ruling is fine mate. There's no room in our society for the perpetuation of racism, and shit like this does that.
First, your proposition requires completely disregarding last few hundreds of years in jurisprudence advancements, since obviously you classify something as crime by its outcome, not the intent. Second, for each individual "crime" you would have to show causal link between the act (such as dog nazi-saluting) and societal racist tendencies, which i hope you understand is pretty much impossible.
So, unless you can give me a good reason to just throw established legal theory out of the window AND provide receipts to some cutting edge scientific methods, which allow to measure perpetuation of racism by individual actions, i can only describe your proposition as ignorant and short-sighted.
That doesn't seem like the same thing to me, that lacks context and doesn't have any sort of punchline.
Is that something he did?
If you take the notion of freedom of speech or freedom expression remotely seriously, then I don't see how you can see this verdict as anything but absurd. And if your general position is that bad things happening to bad people is good, full stop, then that inherently sanctions infinite scenarios of the government violating people's rights.
And if you think freedom of speech should be waived whenever you can draw some indirect connection between an act of speech and acts of violence committed by different people on the basis of some common social or political activity, then no, you don't take freedom of speech remotely seriously.
Actions like this absolutely help perpetuate racism, don't be daft.
Yep.
I know! It's a classic comedy.
someone could be shouting "I love puppies. Love one another" in the middle of the street and it wouldn't be an ok thing to do
Then you absolutely can show me the receipts to such a claim, can't you?
Have you heard the lyrics of Springtime for Hitler? It's filled with Nazi propaganda. And it's supposed to be funny!
As far as I can tell, the UK doesn't have the basic "right" to free speech in the same way the US does. There doesn't appear to be a right to violate unless you think this kind of speech is an inalienable right, which if that's the case then there's really no point in arguing about whether he broke the law or not at all.
What receipts do you need to understand how throwing around Racist jokes like this (even if the intent easn't racist itself, which itself is a grey area) perpetuates racism?
You don't. Stop being daft.
Not the same thing as teaching your dog to throw a nazi salute.
One is carefully considered absurdist comedy, the other is a shit throwaway joke that has no value to it.