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Mark Hamill Once Again Expresses Unhappiness With New ‘Star Wars’ Sequels
- Thread starter Bor Gullet
- Start date
Ah so that is why it got extremely strong reviews unlike the prequels?
I mean the quality of filmmaking is clearly nowhere near the prequels...:
cinematography is great, I don't think that's been up for debate, but everything else about the film...
The scene right after the Falcon escapes the cave is when the speeders turn back and Rose saves Finn. Not really enough time for the Falcon to get back there before the cannon fires. So to answer your question... You.
I said when they escape the cave of wonders. Please pay attention.
Here's my diagram again:
Bruh the Resistance retreated into the cave at that point. She was searching for an exit behind the mountain to get them out.
The entire plot point of canto was indeed so far fetched and pointless. It could have been entirely not needed if Holdo would have just told Poe her and Leias plan. Like the dumbest plot point and flaw of the movie was Holdo's withholding of the plan to Poe and half the crew. Complete garbage.
I said when they escape the cave of wonders. Please pay attention.
Here's my diagram again:
If it makes you feel better there is a deleted scene of the Falcon flying toward the Walkers but Rey sees them firing like crazy on Luke so she goes around back
Except that the moment Poe found out what the plan was, he immediatly blabbed and that's how the FO found out lol.
Holdo was literally proven right lol.
why should she fucking share her plan wIth a demoted captain??
why dont you get in your fucking head, she owes NO FUCKING EXPLANATION TO HIM.
SHE IS THE ADMIRAL OF THE RESISTANCE, HE IS JUST A CAPTAIN.
No, I'm talking about after Chewy and her draw off the TIEs, and they escape the Cave of Wonders and all the TIEs have been destroyed or lost.
Remember when Poe hatched his own plan in secret and withheld it from Holdo? Or when he forced his way onto the bridge, discovered the plan, made a huge scene, called Holdo a traitor and continued on with his mutiny after actually learning there was a plan but didn't agree with it?
The rest of your post is "You're wrong lol!" I did address it by saying that's not what I was talking about. And you should pay attention always, not just when I do or don't do something. I'll go back to your other points, trust me, I just want clarification on this one without muddling it up.
And yet that's still somehow more effort than you've put into the rest of the discussion.
Edit: And yeah, the diagram was still wrong, because it ignores them using themselves as bait for the Tie Fighters lol.
And why exactly should I do that for someone that consistently ignored points and repeated arguments that I had addressed in the literal same posts that was being quoted?
I really really don't lol, I've been asking you to address them for ages, and it never once happened.
I believe after the clarification it already was:
Well, if she had told him, he wouldn't have sent Rose and Finn off on their mission to stop the First Order and DJ would've never betrayed them.
again
she doesnt owe any explanation to poe, poe is just a captain, she is the admiral.
Or he could have followed orders, and not fucked up by breaking the chain of command?
Because believe it or not in a military organisation, if you're just a captain, you have to be happy with what information is provided to you.
Exactly. This isn't a hard concept to understand. It's a military command structure.
On top of all of that, they had no idea hyperspace tracking existed. The first logical assumption then would be that there was a traitor on board. In that case, it made sense to keep all non-essential personnel in the dark on the plan.
Well to be fair, he didn't know about the cloaking device on the escape shuttles. Holdo's plan hinged on that.
Why would she assume there was an exit to the cave when back on the battlefield she could have been more use? She could at least go see what's up? she has access to these Jedi powers and doesn't try to use them in this very important life or death situation.
This action is just as dumb as the resistance not looking for an exit in the back of the cave.
Edit: Another dumb decision: if Luke was just buying them time, did he know about the tunnel? Why didn't he say so?
Dumb decision #4: If Leia knows he is a projection, why didn't she ask him WTF the plan was?
The whole ending is a mess.
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The really interesting thing about this entire plot thread is that it pits genre convention against realism in a universe that wants both. There is a history where the hotheaded pilot that thinks with his cockpit is the one who saves the day by disobeying direct orders. It's part of the empowerment fantasy of being better than the establishment your supposed to follow the rules of. On the other hand, there are very clear reasons why the chain of command exists in reality, because it's generally more effective than other systems.
So you have this situation where neither party is truly wrong, as Holdo is acting reasonably within her judgement by the fact that Poe hasn't shown himself to be disciplined enough to be let in on the secret as well as the fact that mutinies have been happening and the plan needs to be kept secret. Meanwhile, from Poe's perspective, Holdo is acting insanely suspicious and he, reasonably, wants to know whats going on, which he (again, reasonably, but not justifiably) misinterprets as him being entitled to know whats going on.
And from our perspective as the audience we just see this mess that could ahve been avoided if both of these knuckleheads just laid out what the other is doing and trusted each other, even though the character themselves don't have a reason to. Especially when this lack of communication leads to some pretty big consequences and tragic deaths down the line.
It's a plotline that I can easily see why it would frustrate the audience, while also being interesting enough to have validity.
Now, this would have made Holdo's actions more plausible. I wish they pursued that in the movie.
Holdo seemed like she was prepared to give him more info until he flew off the handle and accused her of being a coward and a traitor.
OP
OP
I'm ecstatic. I think this is my first thread to hit 30 pages.
How exactly would she have been more use on the battlefield? The gunner on the MF got wrecked in the cave.
And the Resistance stopped looking for an exit after BB8 did a scan of the environment and found no way out.
She could have still told him about the cloaking devices. However, I don't think it would have made a difference as Finn and Rose were already on Snoke's ship by that time.
._.
this is exactly what happened in the movie.
no need for an exposition shot where holdo says to someone, "we could have a traitor in our ranks!!!"
I mean, it kinda is implied in the film. No one knows how they are tracking them until Rose explains her theory on Active Tracking to Finn and Poe. They purposefully neglect to tell Holdo this info, which again puts the blame for the issues they experience on Poe because he hasn't learned how to be a leader yet.
First, why are you calling it the Cave of Wonders?
Second, I read your post again and ok.. what were you expecting to have happened? the Falcon somehow, out in the open in clear day, flies above or around the FO, and attacks.. the FO from behind? At this point, if I remember correctly (I may need to watch the scene again), the resistance is retreating. Rey's goal was to buy them enough time to do just that, retreat back to their enclosed base. At this point, she wanted to save them but she knew she couldn't park the Falcon out in the open, exposed in front of the base. So naturally, she flew around to the back in hopes that there'd be another way in and she could board as many people as possible to get away.
I don't find any of this unreasonable. She's no use risking the only ship they have to escape, after Poe ordered everyone to retreat, to go on essentially a suicide mission in hopes of destroying a few FO AT-ATs. This is the same mistake Poe and Finn made.. one Rey doesn't need to learn. To not do some dumb heroic move that risks the future of the resistance, and just listen to and trust your friends/keep a level head.
Nah, even a small exposition shot would have gone a long way in stemming this conversation
Yup, this kinda clears things out a little bit
The Resistance is down to a crew of 400 across three ships, the republic and its fleet are toast, the First Order is on them in dogged pursuit. Obvi operational secrecy is of paramount importance and Poe just refused an order from his commanding officer. He doesn't deserve to know operational secrets. And he's let off easy because he's like a son to Leia, but no so with someone like Holdo. Why does this need to be spelled out any further?
Except that she has use of the force that none of them have. She is the most useful soldier on that whole battlefield. Also, this is the last stand for the resistance. They are about to be wiped out. She does the dumbest thing possible.
And she totally could have parked the Falcon behind the row of ATATs. No guns were pointing in that direction. Or couldn't Chewy have hovered the Falcon there as she concentrates on moving them out of attack position? ANYTHING. This is their most desperate hour.
I just re-watched the film last night, you remember correctly.
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So in the version you saw she parked the Falcon "behind" the FO? Because that's the dumbest thing possible.
This is 200% correct (even if the terrible writing kicks in later, in the "I didn't tell this guy my plan because he's a dangerous hothead, but now that you shot him unconscious, I can tell you I actually like him, he's cute! He got 400 people killed, but look at those cheeks!")
.
But this leads to another problem.
In TLJ, Poe is an arrogant, possibly misoginist idiot who jeopardizes the fate of the Resistance for his own ego. Finn regresses to his selfish, cowardish early TFA self and takes an entire movie to actually try something (and fail like an idiot). Luke is an asshole.
And these are our protagonists. You walk in expecting high adventure and fist pumping actions, and you see the people you're supposed to cheer for act like idiots or generally being horrible. And failing.
I don't care about these people anymore. I still care about Finn because I'm an hopeless fanboy, I care about Rey (the only relatable and competent one), but the rest of the cast is just... mediocre. And that's not a good way to build up a trilogy. The second movie fundamentally demolishes the heroes.
Is this some kind of joke? One of the main themes of the film is to not be a hero and do what's best.. trust in the faith of your friends and others around you. Again, this is not a lesson Rey needs to learn as she's shown to not exhibit these kinds of behaviors.
Let me understand you here. You're saying that Rey looking for an exit behind the building all of the resistance are retreating to (safe, out of the line of fire), after clearly being ordered to do so..
..is actually dumber than Rey taking the only escape plan the resistance has left.. and facing down the entire FO, with one ship.. by sneaking around their entire army, in broad daylight, and destroying the entire army with the Falcon..
..because she has the Force??
Is this what you are actually arguing?
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Well judging from his Ep. IX costume, Poe is meant to be the ST's Han, not Finn.
Poor Finn.
I just re-watched the film last night, you remember correctly.
Nah, the Resistance were getting wrecked by TFO air power but then Rey n Chewie swoop in wrecking Ties, then Hux orders all fighters to attack the Falcon. Rey then orders Chewie to draw the fighters away from the speeders. Poe doesn't call off the attack until the Walkers start picking off speeders one by one.
Primarily, because Holdo's actions to me don't seem normal unless you factor in the traitor angle. It wouldn't have hurt the movie at all to have given that a few seconds.
They aren't retreating by the time Rey/Chewie emerge from the cave? Cuz that's the moment we're talking about
I think you missed Fin's arch in TFA because he was absolutely still selfish. He lived to the resistance solely so he could save Rey, he didn't care about them, just her. Which is where TLJ starts.
damn, it never crossed your mind that there might be a traitor?
even with Rose saying she has stopped several people from leaving the fleet?
he literally says to han, im here for rey
Ah so that is why it got extremely strong reviews unlike the prequels?
I mean the quality of filmmaking is clearly nowhere near the prequels...:
They should have made a photo album instead of a movie
I couldn't appreciate the beauty of most of these scenes, because they were simply too dumb.
Like... when the ship tore throw the Supremacy, I wasn't exactly stunned by how pretty this looks. I was sitting there shaking my head, because it's fucking stupid. Or those bombers from the beginning. They're so stupid? So the lady pressed the button in time to drop the bombs, but her bomber is still stupid and how Poe destroyed all the turrets by himself is also stupid. They should've just crashed their Ties into those """"""WW2-inspired bombers ayyyyy"""""" and get it over with. Holy shit.
And the fight with the Snoke's guard was also dumb, because the choreography was just amateurish. People always whined about the fights in the prequels, because they looked more like dances. But at least they managed to hit the enemy and not themselves Lol It's nice that they wanted to cram in so many fighters at once, but they clearly weren't up to the task.
Doesn't help that I was constantly rooting for Kylo to come out on top at least once. Noooope. Who had the most trouble fighting the dudes? Kylo. Who passed out the longest? Kylo. Funnyyyyyy. Rey is so cool
The battle on the salt planet was interesting. It has this vibe of a kid setting up their toys to let them fight. They have one cave entrance and the baddies brought aaaaall their AT-AT and lined them up on the other side of the door. So it's a shitton of AT-AT now facing this one door. You don't need that many, but you get more pretty pictures out of it. And of course there is another secret exit from which the good guys can leave. I mean that's fine, but it's funny that they've lost so many people now that everyone fits into the Millenium Falcon, and that of course there's no one left to stop them, since all the bad guys have is their AT-AT. Whoops. Also, to be honest, lifting those rocks didn't really do it for me. If all that's left between rescue and doom is fucking rocks in sth like Star Wars, then that's a bit on the weak side. But anyway, it's like 8-year old me playing with Lego. Oh, wait, it's not. I was inspired by stuff less stupid xd
The twist with Luke itself was fine, but the problem is that Kylo has now cemented his role of being an absolute joke and I don't know how they intend to salvage that. So I was less like "YES, they made it" and more like "how big of a fool is this guy?" They're pushing it to the limits here, but I' m not sure it was such a good idea.
So basically just sitting there and enjoying the pretty images was off the cards for all the scenes that could have been cool on a different timeline maybe.
Rey tells Chewie to start looking for a place to land, after they emerge from the cave. The reason why she's doing this is because she understands the resistance retreated and no longer have a chance at winning the battle. I remember her distinctly pointing to a place to land.
And yet we have someone arguing that using the last ship available for the resistance to escape is somehow dumber than using the force to destroy the entire FO army lmao.
He's still an officer and has been a ranking and trusted part of Leias team.
and?
he just was demoted, he just cost the rebellion their entire bomber fleet.
and she doesnt know him at all
why she should tell him anything?