Edit: Oops, I messed up the title. I wanted to write "creator of Cyberpunk 2020" not the creator of the whole genre.
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I'm pretty concerned about the representation in this game, but I also think we're at the point in the discussion where even if the game comes out and is completely fine, the people who are against it now are gonna stay against it. And that's CDPR's fault for presenting questionable material.
I'm certainly wondering if he signed off on the "ebonics" style subtitles and voice direction.Look at the Voodoo Boys as an example: from Pondsmith's point of view, the in-game representations of the Voodoo Boys is not racist. But I am sure there will be POC who will feel it is racist.
Agreed on all counts. Can't wait to experience this game for myself.I buy it. I think CDPR is taking this very seriously and they are trying to be better, even if they aren't hitting all the marks. I think his involvement has probably been crucial.
I'm certainly wondering if he signed off on the "ebonics" style subtitles and voice direction.
I'm certainly wondering if he signed off on the "ebonics" style subtitles and voice direction.
I'm certainly wondering if he signed off on the "ebonics" style subtitles and voice direction.
I'm certainly wondering if he signed off on the "ebonics" style subtitles and voice direction.
They're working with Haitian NGO's, so...? Like, what exactly do you mean by "ebonics" anyway? Are you referring to the "them" thing?I'm certainly wondering if he signed off on the "ebonics" style subtitles and voice direction.
I'm certainly wondering if he signed off on the "ebonics" style subtitles and voice direction.
The problem with sanitising material is that you get accusations of being inauthentic. It's a difficult line to walk especially if you're talking about a game that isn't afraid to shy away possibly difficult subjects. However we can't know at this stage, and it would be to the benefit of everybody to be a little less sure of one's positions.More than questionable, I'd say the problem is that they have chosen not to sanitise the material in order to remove controversial material. We are used to game companies working hard to clean up anything that is risqué.
They're working with Haitian NGO's, so...? Like, what exactly do you mean by "ebonics" anyway? Are you referring to the "them" thing?
So the Haitians must have literally said, include this:The fact that you hear a black person have an accent and immediately the worst is telling.
At one point V, the player character, mockingly says "and who are dem" in response to Placide's pronunciation.
The population is now largely black, and the major language is largely Haitian Creole. We're here to meet a man called Placide, of the Voodoo Boys gang, for a mission. We search for him in a nearby church, and an NPC, named as "Poor Man", comes up to us. There is some questionable dialogue - or rather, questionable subtitling - where the man's thick Creole accent is also written out in the subtitles, "they" as "dey" and "the" as "da" or "de". This is the same for nearly all of the Voodoo Boys and people of this area, and actully after you unlock a chip in-game that translates launguage for you, your software presents it as such - "la" in a foreign language still "da" in English. Later on, Placide mentions "they are coming", or something of that ilk, and our white male character asks "who is "dey"?".`
I mean you can also go the other end of the spectrum and look at Ubisoft, where everybody thinks they're full of shit.
The problem with sanitising material is that you get accusations of being inauthentic. It's a difficult line to walk especially if you're talking about a game that isn't afraid to shy away possibly difficult subjects. However we can't know at this stage, and it would be to the benefit of everybody to be a little less sure of one's positions.
Pretty much. Just look at how much shit Ubisoft gets for saying their games are non political.The problem with sanitising material is that you get accusations of being inauthentic. It's a difficult line to walk especially if you're talking about a game that isn't afraid to shy away possibly difficult subjects. However we can't know at this stage, and it would be to the benefit of everybody to be a little less sure of one's positions.
I mean you can also go the other end of the spectrum and look at Ubisoft, where everybody thinks they're full of shit.
CDPR does not deserve the benefit of the doubt because of their past, maybe cyberpunk 2077 will turn out good and have a good representation but that is all up in the air and there is no guarantee that they are going to.Posters designed by LGBT people being accused of transphobic; authentic and accurate accents being called racist. People are looking for things to find fault with based on the preconceived notion that there's no way cdpr can do this correctly. Any attempt by them to do so will result in something else being found which is 'problematic'.
Perhaps CDPR does not deserve the benefit of the doubt but I don't think they deserve that everything must be assumed to be done with the absolute worst intentions either.CDPR does not deserve the benefit of the doubt because of their past, maybe cyberpunk 2077 will turn out good and have a good representation but that is all up in the air and there is no guarantee that they are going to.
The problem with sanitising material is that you get accusations of being inauthentic. It's a difficult line to walk especially if you're talking about a game that isn't afraid to shy away possibly difficult subjects.
CDPR does not deserve the benefit of the doubt because of their past, maybe cyberpunk 2077 will turn out good and have a good representation but that is all up in the air and there is no guarantee that they are going to.
The spoken accents are accurate by all accounts. The English subtitles however use stuff like "dey" instead of "they" wit bout doing the same for all accented language (e.g. doesn't drop consonants and add apostrophes at the end of other characters saying "runnin'".
It's less assuming the worst intentions but critiquing what's shown to us and hoping that it's not just surface level background fluff.Perhaps CDPR does not deserve the benefit of the doubt but I don't think they deserve that everything must be assumed to be done with the absolute worst intentions either.
Well, listen, I'm not a black person, so I'm not going to dictate whether or not anyone should or shouldn't be offended. And the joke described in the article can be construed as offensive to be sure.So the Haitians must have literally said, include this:
Is what i'm hearing ITT considering how many people quoted me. There's authentic accents, and then there's reinforcing harmful stereotypes like that even if well intentioned.
The spoken accents are accurate by all accounts. The English subtitles however use stuff like "dey" instead of "they"
Exactly, I have no reason to believe that it's anything but that because of CDPR history. They might surprise or not.It's less assuming the worst intentions but critiquing what's shown to us and hoping that it's not just surface level background fluff.
🤔Well, listen, I'm not a black person, so I'm not going to dictate whether or not anyone should or shouldn't be offended. And the joke described in the article can be construed as offensive to be sure.
Debatable considering the company's history with representation.But does one offensive joke wipe away all the other good things they're doing?
Thanks for addressing my entire post.🤔
Debatable considering the company's history with representation.
this is true.Oh absolutely. But if I don't know... Activision made this game? There would be no Voodoo Boys, they''d be replaced by the Car Boys a gang of people obsessed with cars and they'd make vroom vroom nooises as they attacked you. I think there's a certain value in that courage even if it ends... poorly.
We'll know for sure once the game is available, specially since Marketing is being coy and keeping quiet.
The rest of this post is also complete nonsense but this is the core thesis and it's one of the most prominent ways disingenuous posters like this try to dismiss the legitimate concerns of those who actually care about these issues. "People are already biased against the game/CDPR, they're just looking for a way to tear it down, there's no way to satisfy their need for political correctness." Typical alt-right style smokescreen. Little surprise there are many other posts in this thread doing the same or similar already, just less blatantly. This is going to go the same way previous threads on this and connected issues have gone.People are looking for things to find fault with based on the preconceived notion that there's no way cdpr can do this correctly. Any attempt by them to do so will result in something else being found which is 'problematic'.
I've posted about this in another thread but using phonetic spelling for certain dialects isn't rooted in racism or stereotype, it's an actual thing.So the Haitians must have literally said, include this:
Is what i'm hearing ITT considering how many people quoted me. There's authentic accents, and then there's reinforcing harmful stereotypes like that even if well intentioned.
The rest of this post is also complete nonsense but this is the core thesis and it's one of the most prominent ways disingenuous posters like this try to dismiss the legitimate concerns of those who actually care about these issues. "People are already biased against the game/CDPR, they're just looking for a way to tear it down, there's no way to satisfy their need for political correctness." Typical alt-right style smokescreen. Little surprise there are many other posts in this thread doing the same or similar already, just less blatantly. This is going to go the same way previous threads on this and connected issues have gone.
Too many people jumping to conclusions on things we know little about, it's easy to hit outrage without knowing anything besides minor details
Saying that it's also a dystopian society so if injustice doesn't exist then it's shit fiction and going by CP2020 it's full of 80's stereotypes.
The issue I see is that all these assumptions and calls for pitchforks are going to result in anything that actually is genuinly problematic being much more difficult to have a proper conversation about.
The rest of this post is also complete nonsense but this is the core thesis and it's one of the most prominent ways disingenuous posters like this try to dismiss the legitimate concerns of those who actually care about these issues. "People are already biased against the game/CDPR, they're just looking for a way to tear it down, there's no way to satisfy their need for political correctness." Typical alt-right style smokescreen. Little surprise there are many other posts in this thread doing the same or similar already, just less blatantly. This is going to go the same way previous threads on this and connected issues have gone.
Huh. Learn something new every day.I've posted about this in another thread but using phonetic spelling for certain dialects isn't rooted in racism or stereotype, it's an actual thing.
It's done for Pidgin English, which is very similar to Creole English.
Other than that, say what you will about our character mocking said accent. I'm not Haitian Creole myself so I'm not gonna throw my opinion in.
Are you aware that this based on a board game made in the 80's? LMAOI'm willing to be proven wrong on representation, but I think one of the most disappointing things is how the setting of this game is just straight up retrofuturism. Yes, our current social condition is one where no one is really actively imagining the future anymore ("the future is cancelled"), but just reviving the 90s cyberpunk aesthetic, essentially as another case of the 30 year reminiscence cycle, really gets across to me how impoverished our current attempts are at conceiving any kind of positive, speculative future. Even if they get everything right regarding representation, I still think the world will feel unsatisfying or displaced in time, because it's really easy to read the whole resurgence of classic cyberpunk as a vain attempt by capitalism to find something exciting or provocative in what is now basically an exsanguinated corpse.
Highly doubt they do it for the sake of accuracy considering it's subtitles being added for the player, who the character proceeds to make fun of on more than one occasion. Which'll be doubly weird if we choose to play as a POC.I've posted about this in another thread but using phonetic spelling for certain dialects isn't rooted in racism or stereotype, it's an actual thing.
It's done for Pidgin English, which is very similar to Creole English.
Other than that, say what you will about our character mocking said accent. I'm not Haitian Creole myself so I'm not gonna throw my opinion in.
Yeah, did they ever say somewhere that your character can opt NOT to mock these other characters? Is dialogue based on your "idol" you choose during character creation?Highly doubt they do it for the sake of accuracy considering it's subtitles being added for the player, who the character proceeds to make fun of on more than one occasion. Which'll be doubly weird if we choose to play as a POC.
Huh? I don't get this point. Are you saying shouldn't subtitles shouldn't be phonetically spelled?Highly doubt they do it for the sake of accuracy considering it's subtitles being added for the player
Huh? I don't get this point. Are you saying shouldn't subtitles shouldn't be phonetically spelled?
If so I disagree. It's an accurate representation of the language and people of similar dialects type phonetically themselves.
Regardless of how it's done in the game, this would be the best path to take. Feels like the most useful and less "othering."Here's my question: how do Haitians write these words? Do they actually write "dey" phonetically as in Scots-English? Or do they just write "they"?
I always try to go by this standard when I can. Like if someone has a name that is pronounced five different ways by culture, I'll defer to how the person themself says it.
I ask this openly and honestly. Is there some idea that there are not people who talk this way? There are people of all ethnicities who do. Are minority representation only acceptable if they are Idris Elba or Carlton? Subtitles are there to relay language as it sounds. I think people are being really fast on the trigger to base the entire experience on the parts that we have seen.I'm certainly wondering if he signed off on the "ebonics" style subtitles and voice direction.