Mike Z should resign from Lab Zero Games. He shouldn't financially benefit from a possible Skullgirls appearance at EVO if it's not going to be banned.
MikeZ, lead designer of Skullgirls, makes an "I can't breathe" joke on stream
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
Yes, he was asked after Mike essentially said "I've already donated, so why should I have to make a big deal about doing it again?" and someone ran with it.
I just find it weird that he thinks past donations retroactively make up for his actions.
People on twitter bringing up his donation or apologies or black friends like they mean anything. What they want is to be able to donate 0.1% of their money, call it a year, and then experience immunity from anything they say or do from then on. His game cannot be allowed at Evo. The money doesn't matter, its that his reputation needs to suffer for what he's said, and people need to consider really hard whether working with a racist is a good idea he can sink his entire project in one second.
Look, people can feel however they want about the situation, but he didn't make any claim of this sort. If he doesn't want to parade around going "look at how many donations I've made" like I've seen some people on Twitter do disingenuously, that's fine. Talk is cheap. Actions are where it's at. And any further posts expounding on his donations or anything else going forward to try to make up for what he did wouldn't be taken in good faith regardless.
EDIT: Maybe that's a bit much. It could go either way for people to have evidence he's putting in work to do better depending on what it is. But everyone has different wants on the issue and some just want him to shut up and go away.
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He told people asking him to donate to look at his past, thereby missing the entire point. You can't bring up donations you made before the racist thing to satisfy the people asking you to donate after the racist thing.
It doesn't matter if people woudn't take it in good faith. It's his fault that people don't trust him. It's still the right thing to do, because he did do harm, and donating publically shows that he's actually trying to make up for it while encouraging others to do the same.
I don't care if it "looks disengenous." Fuck that. People need the money. Charities need awareness. This pre-emptive concern about "looking fake" or whatever is another weird statement from him. Like, he's telling people they're not demanding the right things from him. How about you just do it and save us the bullshit, Mike?
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I had edited my post with an addendum, but it wasn't soon enough. Anyway, some people do want to see what he's doing and I understand that viewpoint. He said that LZ is going to continue to make donations going forward (would've been better to say "I will" obviously but I assume it still entails money coming out of his own pocket).
The past donation at least shows that he was putting up money when no one was watching and when it wouldn't be seen as benefiting him in any way. And the idea of public-facing "wokeness" by companies and the like when internally or behind the scenes, they're still kind of shite, is an ongoing discussion. That's what was in my mind when I said I'm not as concerned about the public spectacle. But, you're right in that awareness is also important.
That was painful.
Watching him try to justify it in the second clip was worse. The lady was giving him the "shut up" signal, but he just kept going...
Some people, even if they don't have ill intentions, need to learn how to read the room and when to stfu.
Also if you mess up, expect all the heat to come your way. Don't get all defensive and whiny about it.
Just take it. Feel the pit in your stomach and learn from it.
Watching him try to justify it in the second clip was worse. The lady was giving him the "shut up" signal, but he just kept going...
Some people, even if they don't have ill intentions, need to learn how to read the room and when to stfu.
Also if you mess up, expect all the heat to come your way. Don't get all defensive and whiny about it.
Just take it. Feel the pit in your stomach and learn from it.
Yeah, if Mike Z steps down, that studio closes.
But hey.
Maybe that studio just closes.
That's unlikely to happen, nor something I would want to happen.
Wow. What a idiot. And the silence after what MikeZ had said says it all. And even doubled down on top.
Way to destroy a lot of goodwill you built, doofus.
Way to destroy a lot of goodwill you built, doofus.
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This reminds me of that old quote, "nobody is talented enough to be an asshole."
This whole ordeal is really strange to me because even when Skullgirls was in development a minority of us were vocal about how something was off about Mike Z. I don't know if it was ego, or needing to feel like he was the smartest, or lacking the tact to big up your own ideas/product without putting something else down. The Skullgirls community certainly didn't feel this way, and to their credit, they probably paid closer attention to his behaviour.
But this.. this I wouldn't expect from him. I wouldn't expect this from ANYONE, not even staunch Republicans. Who fails to read the room of the WORLD this poorly? How does this even just slip out in excitement? I can't fathom it. I don't feel wholly validated because it's not predictable, just an indescribable mistake. It's bizarre in the worst way.
I'm surprised that he felt kind and sorrowful enough to donate to the cause, but ok enough to make that joke about it. It's like a person making efforts to help child poverty/homelessness then making a horrible joke about them. How could you bring yourself to do that?
It's possible people were on the Hype Train, as Skullgirls was geared to be basically the "best" fighting game.
- It had a tutorial that they tried to work really well on
- Hand Drawn animation and characters in a genre where most games were using 3D models or using 3D models to sprite
- Infinite Prevention System
- Character roster is small but unique and they took a lot of advice from top players
- Team ratio can be up to three fighters to mix things up
- Rollback Netcode at a time where no other major fighters were even considering the idea of it.
I'm willing to bet he just doesn't care that much. Like, he knows BLM is important, he knows donating profits from that Skullgirls mobile thing was a good idea. But at the end of the day he's far enough removed from it all that he doesn't bother to treat it with respect privately. The waterfall of praise he recieved from the SonicFox/trans character thing probably bolstered a sense of confidence that he could pull it off.
I'm just wondering what he thought would happen? "Wow, can't believe you just said that! Wow!" "yeah, well people need to talk about it. I'm sure Skullgirl #14 wouldn't like it." 'Well said, well said. Back to the game though, haha" Seriously, I have no idea.
This should probably be it's own thing, since it has no relation to MIke Z or skullgirls
Yep, but I'm on my phone and not at home right now so I thought this is the most relevant thread until someone make one.
OP
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So in light of both major racist incident Sonicfox and Perfect Legend are at it again looks like.
I'm a be real here tho. Imo I side with Perfect on this one cause the dm he linked apparently looks as if PL was at the very least trying to make amends and squash the beef back then also this dm they posted was before what Mike Z said so this to me came off as a L for Sonicfox. I mean he's accusing Fox of something and his response was to post an old DM of him being nice to Fox and trying to get along. I mean in that time frame shit can and did happen that changed PL's mind. Also looks like people in the comments section are even calling out Fox on this.
I'm a be real here tho. Imo I side with Perfect on this one cause the dm he linked apparently looks as if PL was at the very least trying to make amends and squash the beef back then also this dm they posted was before what Mike Z said so this to me came off as a L for Sonicfox. I mean he's accusing Fox of something and his response was to post an old DM of him being nice to Fox and trying to get along. I mean in that time frame shit can and did happen that changed PL's mind. Also looks like people in the comments section are even calling out Fox on this.
On the matter of PL, he was talking A LOT of shit about Fox both before and after the 0-13 match, so I wouldn't fault them for being super skeptical at first when PL's trying to come back playing nice years later.
But the context of everything else though... man..
Edit: Oh nm, PL just got into a twitter beef with SF and they both looking petty as fuck
But the context of everything else though... man..
Edit: Oh nm, PL just got into a twitter beef with SF and they both looking petty as fuck
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Yeah Im not sure what those DMs are supposed to mean. He was being friendly cause he wanted to squash the beef (?) and he sent them fucking months before the Mike Z shit. Of course his stance is gonna change when something new happens. If anything, Sonic is the one being inconsistent and hypocritical with FChamp. I get making an argument that intent/history matter and that FChamp has an extremely long rap sheet of deplorable shit so there's no doubt with what he meant, but MikeZ did something far fucking worse imo.
The watermelon shit is fucking bad and gross but Mike made a joke about a guy who was murdered by the police not even a month ago and who's unjust killing sparked a current ongoing momentum of protests and outcry both on social media and in the real world. It wasn't a "oh that's not what I meant at all it was a coincidence" awkward type situation. He thought "I'm gonna say this joke about this black man who was killed for no reason". He sat there, paused, hesitated and still did it. The 100% FULL INTENT was to make fun of George Floyd being killed. That's it. And It's not necessarily about it being some type of "oppression olympics' or something but man, I have a hard time believing that if Mike wasn't their friend, they would have still been so quick to forgive him still. The FGC will never rid itself of garbage people and instances of disgusting behavior if people don't stick to a level of consistency in not tolerating this shit at all.
The watermelon shit is fucking bad and gross but Mike made a joke about a guy who was murdered by the police not even a month ago and who's unjust killing sparked a current ongoing momentum of protests and outcry both on social media and in the real world. It wasn't a "oh that's not what I meant at all it was a coincidence" awkward type situation. He thought "I'm gonna say this joke about this black man who was killed for no reason". He sat there, paused, hesitated and still did it. The 100% FULL INTENT was to make fun of George Floyd being killed. That's it. And It's not necessarily about it being some type of "oppression olympics' or something but man, I have a hard time believing that if Mike wasn't their friend, they would have still been so quick to forgive him still. The FGC will never rid itself of garbage people and instances of disgusting behavior if people don't stick to a level of consistency in not tolerating this shit at all.
The first comment I'm seeing on the Perfect Legend tweet is someone else mocking him for losing to Sonicfox. There looks like a lot of pettiness floating around.
Lame as shit from sonic, PL is a dick but he's 100% right here.
If Sonic seriously thought those DMs were a gotcha moment lol
And fuck Mike z, he walked into that pathetic excuse for a joke at a glacial pace, If you have that much time to think about fuck all that bullshit you say after when coppin pleas
If Sonic seriously thought those DMs were a gotcha moment lol
And fuck Mike z, he walked into that pathetic excuse for a joke at a glacial pace, If you have that much time to think about fuck all that bullshit you say after when coppin pleas
It goes to show why you shouldn't get mixed up in your friends shit and ever act like it's your place to forgive them when it's basically implied you will; support them in private if you want to. If you do go to bat publicly then you should also probably make a point to not weigh in on anyone else for the near future (which SF decided to do) and also make sure not to directly callback to when you gave a pass to your friend when passing judgment on that new person (which they also did).
Of course Perfect Legend had to follow up with his usual clownery via 500 tweets about how he's also the best fighting game player ever and SF would never beat him in a game, so he undermined himself and guaranteed nothing will stick.
Of course Perfect Legend had to follow up with his usual clownery via 500 tweets about how he's also the best fighting game player ever and SF would never beat him in a game, so he undermined himself and guaranteed nothing will stick.
Also the fact that Sonicfox is now coming out saying that they told off Mike Z in private now is kinda telling. I mean he could of said something like this from the start.
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It's not, he's supporting him the whole way. I have lost so much respect for him. He's blindly defended him the whole way
I mean yeah this whole situation has knocked SF down a few notches for me. I mean I'm actually taking PL side of this.
"would it be fair to say..." if you have to wait so many seconds to decide on whether you should bring that joke or not, you probably shouldn't. And if you don't get ANY kind of response within two or three seconds you should immediately realise that you screwed up and should apologise. Jesus fucking christ.
Both of these are true.
SF is...well, I'm not sure what the fuck they're thinking that this was a good idea.
someone brought it up and iirc, he just said "we're looking into this"
I'd have to dig it out from earlier in the thread, but their original response was a tweet along the lines of "yeah, I need to give Mike a talking to". They also made it a point that others don't have to agree with their take on Mike-Z.
I'm not trying to assert how anyone should feel about anything, but just to make sure that we don't forget, their reaction was not an immediate clear-cut circling of the wagons or downplaying of the incident. It at least seemed initially that they were going to take a much harder response.
Cliques in the FGC run very deep. If beating women and running credit card scams get you a slap in the wrist what's wrong with your friend making George Floyd jokes?
He's defending mike z still and going hard at f champ, what f champ did was extremely shitty and I wouldn't have an issue him getting banned from stuff but how mike z handled it was much worst and he should get banned as well. Sonic fox has handled this has been extremely poor
lol what happened to Zero Tolerance I guess it lasted a month this time in the FGC.
I guess people got a better understanding on how things work in the police now ! Protect your own !
idk only thing wiz had to say about fchamp was "not cool" so I'm not surprised
It's definitely a defense. The "immediate" and "clear-cut" are the points that I was trying to make. Sonicfox's initial tweet had a lot of people expecting a stronger response, so the defense took a while to come out. The defense also deliberately threw a bone to people who aren't forgiving Mike; I'll let you decide for yourself why that was included.
The tweets about perfect legend and f champ shows me where fox stands and it's an extremely bad look for him.