Mobapad, Switch accessory manufacturer, has posted alleged details of Switch 2 on their Bilibili page (new buttons on joycons, BC, 1080p screen)

[NukeRunner]

I love when people bringing DLSS up like we're still talking about a handheld PC here.

Honestly, resolution discussion aside, what do people exactly expect here to happen? That you get a free accessible side menu option of having DLSS available for everything you play and you can manually use it by your choice?
We are still talking about a console here.
The way it will work is, yes it will be capable of DLSS, but games need to have this build in and be optimized for it.
It will not be a "it's there, it will work" solution for all games, there will be games that doesn't use it and then there will be games that use it but still look terrible cause the devs decided to use DLSS performance instead of quality. And then there will be games where it upscales from so low that it will still look bad. I don't think we will have any choice here and will have to deal with what the devs select for the games, which can look better, or worse and I absolutely also expect some games to simply not use it at all, just like current PS5 or SX console games simply don't use all possibilities all the time.

Click to shrink...

Any games ported to this system will likely have an efficient use of these tools because they know everyone can use them and the exact configuration. The reason people are excited is to finally see a truly standard spec method for its implementation. Some may be overselling it, but most people who buy a Switch 2 will likely do so for indies and exclusives, and any high effort exclusives will likely use all the available tools. Shoddy ports, who knows? At least the tools to make a proper version may be better this time, but you still have to have careful configuration while making the game.

Resolution was a big sore spot with the original Switch, I think people just hope it's a lot better this time because special implementations are actually in place for that now.

 

[ThisIsMyDogKyle]

To Indie games, yes, and I still stay with that opinion. To your nakes eyes, shit will just look good if you look at a 720p screen or if you look at a 1080p screen, for the perception of if something you are looking at looks good or not it "literally makes no difference" because the important factor here is if it's native or not.

Can higher res on a higher res screen be more detailed? Of course, I'm not arguing that like a mad person claiming 4K would be the same as 1080p, lol.

But for the perception of your naked eye, if you look at a 720p screen or a 1080, both games running native, both will just look great to you without any issues.

Click to shrink...

Well at that point wouldn't a 540p screen be even better? you're even more likely to hit native res with that! or does 540p to 720p actually make a difference that magically stops happening when going from 720p to 1080p? Also, I'm going to keep bringing this up as you keep trying to walk it back but you 100% were arguing that a higher res on a higher res screen would not be more detailed saying it makes "literally, no difference" and, again, laughed at the poster for suggesting it would, and yes, it would also make a difference for hand drawn games, which not every indie game even is, not as obvious of a difference, but it would 100% still look clearer. I don't even think that 720p would look bad, I'd be fine with it, but you're very wrong with this one.

 

[inkblot]

I love when people bringing DLSS up like we're still talking about a handheld PC here.

Honestly, resolution discussion aside, what do people exactly expect here to happen? That you get a free accessible side menu option of having DLSS available for everything you play and you can manually use it by your choice?
We are still talking about a console here.
The way it will work is, yes it will be capable of DLSS, but games need to have this build in and be optimized for it.
It will not be a "it's there, it will work" solution for all games, there will be games that doesn't use it and then there will be games that use it but still look terrible cause the devs decided to use DLSS performance instead of quality. And then there will be games where it upscales from so low that it will still look bad. I don't think we will have any choice here and will have to deal with what the devs select for the games, which can look better, or worse and I absolutely also expect some games to simply not use it at all, just like current PS5 or SX console games simply don't use all possibilities all the time.

Click to shrink...

This seems like a merry-go-round discussion though where we're saying a 1080p screen is bad because not every developer will be able to effectively use the hardware/software tools available to them… but that's like any console ever? Of course DLSS isn't a magic wand, and of course it's up to devs to use those tools to hit a certain quality threshold. That's not unique to the Switch 2 or a 1080p screen for that matter.

 

[Richietto]

Exactly. The angst over the name isn't about us, we're going to know what it is no matter what. Average consumers absolutely do get confused about this stuff though. And yes, my parents absolutely didn't know how a Super Nintendo was any different from the Nintendo we already had, and that was also a simpler time with less hardware out there and with store demos and salespeople to help explain things.

Click to shrink...

lol I'm pretty sure my mom STILL doesn't understand the difference between a Nintendo and Super Nintendo.

 

[CheapJi]

To Indie games, yes, and I still stay with that opinion. To your nakes eyes, shit will look good if you look at a 720p screen or if you look at a 1080p screen, for the perception of if something you are looking at looks good or not it "literally makes no difference" because the important factor here is if it's native or not.

Can higher res on a higher res screen be more detailed? Of course, I'm not arguing that like a mad person not claiming 4K would be the same as 1080p, lol.

But for the perception of your naked eye, if you look at a 720p screen or a 1080, both games running native, both will just look great to you without any issues.

Click to shrink...

Depends on the screen size. Apple for example started using 1080p displays and above since they released Iphone 6 plus (released in 2014 and 6.5 inches btw) so you wouldn't notice pixels on the screen. Meanwhile the smaller phone with a 4.7 screen utilized a resolution of around 720p and looked just as good.
If the new switch does utilize an 8 inch screen, 1080p would absolutely be necessary so you wouldn't notice pixels (basically 276ppi).
If it was a 720p screen at 8 inches it would have a pixel density of 183 ppi and trust me that would look like absolute crap.
We don't have enough information to definitely say how well it can drive the screen so lets not worry about that just yet.

 

[NukeRunner]

This seems like a merry-go-round discussion though where we're saying a 1080p screen is bad because not every developer will be able to effectively use the hardware/software tools available to them… but that's like any console ever? Of course DLSS isn't a magic wand, and of course it's up to devs to use those tools to hit a certain quality threshold. That's not unique to the Switch 2 or a 1080p screen for that matter.

Click to shrink...

Just because it has ram doesn't mean it's assured to be used well (???????) 😁

 

[St. Eam the 3rd]

Steam deck will probably be stronger than Switch 2's handheld profile. Docked will be stronger than the deck, and it also has the benefit of having a dedicated API that devs will optimize for.

This is all without considering DLSS

Click to shrink...

The better optimized game I figured, but for raw specs that would be awesome:)

 

[Renna Hazel]

I love when people bringing DLSS up like we're still talking about a handheld PC here.

Honestly, resolution discussion aside, what do people exactly expect here to happen? That you get a free accessible side menu option of having DLSS available for everything you play and you can manually use it by your choice?
We are still talking about a console here.
The way it will work is, yes it will be capable of DLSS, but games need to have this build in and be optimized for it.
It will not be a "it's there, it will work" solution for all games, there will be games that doesn't use it and then there will be games that use it but still look terrible cause the devs decided to use DLSS performance instead of quality. And then there will be games where it upscales from so low that it will still look bad. I don't think we will have any choice here and will have to deal with what the devs select for the games, which can look better, or worse and I absolutely also expect some games to simply not use it at all, just like current PS5 or SX console games simply don't use all possibilities all the time.

Click to shrink...

This applies to every aspect of every console. Some devs will use the tools better than others, but it's nice to have the tools so people are excited about it.

 

[cw_sasuke]

It matters from a design standpoint.
It's a waste of ressource. And it's not only an issue for AAA or big productions. There were Nintendo 1st party titles running at sub native res on the handheld screen when it was 720p.

Click to shrink...

Its not, no matter how often you repeat it. There is a clear and visible upgrade for most games on a 8inch screen going from 720p to 1080p.
Limiting your systems potential just because a handful of games might be to taxing to reach the native screen res is crazy.

You act like they are going for 1080p on a 6inch in screen or from 1080p to 1440p on the 8inch one - yeah in those cases it would really be s waste of resources for 99% of the audience.

 

[Richietto]

This applies to every aspect of every console. Some devs will use the tools better than others, but it's nice to have the tools so people are excited about it.

Click to shrink...

Especially for Nintendos games themselves. Their more simple, less graphics heavy visual styles are gonna look great with DLSS supporting their games. I'm mad excited to see what they achieve.

 

[Beje]

Cart compatibility is the easy way out, what people actually want is a modern eShop experience that bridges both consoles and doesn't leave the Switch downloadable content in some kind of weird, sepparate, clearly-in-life-support scenario that you know is going to be nuked sooner or later like DSi -> 3DS and Wii -> WiiU (and the complete clean slate with the Switch killing any chance of new-gen upgrades for all the games people bought on the Wii U and that eventually got ported and people got asked for full price fucking again)

 

[NukeRunner]

Cart compatibility is the easy way out, what people actually want is a modern eShop experience that bridges both consoles and doesn't leave the Switch downloadable content in some kind of weird, sepparate, clearly-in-life-support scenario that you know is going to be nuked sooner or later like DSi -> 3DS and Wii -> WiiU (and the complete clean slate with the Switch killing any chance of new-gen upgrades for all the games people bought on the Wii U and that eventually got ported and people got asked for full price fucking again)

Click to shrink...

There is no chance Nintendo won't find a way to move everything over to whatever they use for Switch 2. It's basically the main financial motivation to have BC and they have put specific focus in their public statements regarding Nintendo Accounts. Now will the method be good, that much isn't certain as usual.

 

[Mandos]

There is no chance Nintendo won't find a way to move everything over to whatever they use for Switch 2. It's basically the main financial motivation to have BC and they have put specific focus in their public statements regarding Nintendo Accounts. Now will the method be good, that much isn't certain as usual.

Click to shrink...

Heck it's the reasoning behind the new Eshop backend format. It's designed to be future forward

 

[nDesh]

"Look more crisp" lol.
If you look at a game in 720p on a 720p screen of that size, or if you look at a game in 1080p on a 1080p screen of that size, it makes, literally, no difference to your eyes.
Both games will just look razor sharp native res to you.

Click to shrink...

What the f?

 

[GhostTrick]

Its not, no matter how often you repeat it. There is a clear and visible upgrade for most games on a 8inch screen going from 720p to 1080p.
Limiting your systems potential just because a handful of games might be to taxing to reach the native screen res is crazy.

You act like they are going for 1080p on a 6inch in screen or from 1080p to 1440p on the 8inch one - yeah in those cases it would really be s waste of resources for 99% of the audience.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, you're right. That 0.9 inch compared to Switch OLED more totally mean they should more than double the resolution and ressource necessary.

No one is saying there's no upgrade going from 720p to 1080p, even on a screen as low as 5 inch.
The question is, is it worth it for a mobile hardware where you're more likely to have sub native res games and bandwith issues. I don't think so.

 

[Nolbertos]

Besides maybe the Metroids, Zelda's and F-zero, what big GC/Wii games are left to be remade or ported?

Click to shrink...

For the GC era, we still need Twlight Princess, Wind Waker, Eternal Darkness, FE Path of Radiance, Odama off the top of my head for Nintendo 1st party games for Switch / Switch 2.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WVDgPN_Gkk#t=3m

 

[cw_sasuke]

Yeah, you're right. That 0.9 inch compared to Switch OLED more totally mean they should more than double the resolution and ressource necessary.

No one is saying there's no upgrade going from 720p to 1080p, even on a screen as low as 5 inch.
The question is, is it worth it for a mobile hardware where you're more likely to have sub native res games and bandwith issues. I don't think so.

Click to shrink...

I dont think PS4+ level hardware pre DLSS is gonna have as tought time reaching 1080p on that screen compared to what Switch had to manage to even reach 720p in games.

I understand having doubts about such a big jump, but in the end its a massive hardware jump as well and i dont think would make the move if the expectation would be a bunch of sub native games. Reaching 540p pre-DLSS even in the worst case scenarios isnt that crazy of a target and should be possible for most well optimized pieces of content.

 

[Tired Repairman]

I get the obsession with the type of screen because, obviously, OLED is the shit and we all want the bes screen ever, but... resolution? Please.

The Steam Deck runs at 800p and people treats it as the best thing ever since sliced bread.

 

[Beje]

I dont think PS4+ level hardware pre DLSS is gonna have as tought time reaching 1080p on that screen compared to what Switch had to manage to even reach 720p in games.

I understand having doubts about such a big jump, but in the end its a massive hardware jump as well and i dont think would make the move if the expectation would be a bunch of sub native games. Reaching 540p pre-DLSS even in the worst case scenarios isnt that crazy of a target and should be possible for most well optimized pieces of content.

Click to shrink...

I think it's more the fact that the Steam Deck is perfectly fine with what's essentially a slightly taller 16:10 720p screen (1280x800) on a similar size, and increasing it to full 1080p would generate more problems around battery life, non-pixel perfect upscaling of Switch games (smudging UIs and re-upscaling games that render at sub-720p making the issue much worse) and lots of "can't even reach full HD" ramblings than it's worth for what's essentially very little actual gain.

 

[NukeRunner]

I think it's more the fact that the Steam Deck is perfectly fine with what's essentially a slightly taller 16:10 720p screen (1280x800) on a similar size, and increasing it to full 1080p would generate more problems around battery life, non-pixel perfect upscaling of Switch games (smudging UIs and re-upscaling games that render at sub-720p making the issue much worse) and lots of "can't even reach full HD" ramblings than it's worth for what's essentially very little actual gain.

Click to shrink...

Steamdeck doesn't support DLSS or have an 8 inch screen if I recall, so that's likely why. If they made another SD I assume the resolution would likely go up too, as even that is getting old now.

 

[GhostTrick]

I dont think PS4+ level hardware pre DLSS is gonna have as tought time reaching 1080p on that screen compared to what Switch had to manage to even reach 720p in games.

I understand having doubts about such a big jump, but in the end its a massive hardware jump as well and i dont think would make the move if the expectation would be a bunch of sub native games. Reaching 540p pre-DLSS even in the worst case scenarios isnt that crazy of a target and should be possible for most well optimized pieces of content.

Click to shrink...

PS4+ level hardware depends on many things:
The actual clocks.
The bandwith available (yes, that's a big issue in mobile hardware. I don't think Switch 2 will have as much bandwith as PS4.)

 

[NukeRunner]

PS4+ level hardware depends on many things:
The actual clocks.
The bandwith available (yes, that's a big issue in mobile hardware. I don't think Switch 2 will have as much bandwith as PS4.)

Click to shrink...

It might not have the literal bandwidth, but that doesn't mean its overall ability will not exceed the PS4 which it most certainly should.

 

[cw_sasuke]

I think it's more the fact that the Steam Deck is perfectly fine with what's essentially a slightly taller 16:10 720p screen (1280x800) on a similar size, and increasing it to full 1080p would generate more problems around battery life, non-pixel perfect upscaling of Switch games (smudging UIs and re-upscaling games that render at sub-720p making the issue much worse) and lots of "can't even reach full HD" ramblings than it's worth for what's essentially very little actual gain.

Click to shrink...

Thats a SteamDeck issue where running these PC games at 1080p would require way more performance - the SteamDeck is also 3 years old and looks as impressive because the No. 1 comparison was against a older OG Switch.

Personally i would be disappointed if Mario Odyssey 2 on the Switch would still be limited to the same resolution on portable ive already had for nearly a decade across Switch and SteamDeck.

This system is gonna stick around for the next decade and all Nintendo portables have made a big jump in terms of graphical capabilities. Its supposed to deliver a sizable difference for every customer asap.

While this discussion is interesting, i think once the system is unveiled and we see how the game look/perform in portable mode people will realize why they went with this move.

PS4+ level hardware depends on many things:
The actual clocks.
The bandwith available (yes, that's a big issue in mobile hardware. I don't think Switch 2 will have as much bandwith as PS4.)

Click to shrink...

Bandwidth maybe, but pretty much every else in terms of RAM, CPU, Storagespeed, more modern GPU features etc..
Thats pre-DLSS. I dont think we would be getting all these Leaks of Sega pretty much planning to have most of their upcoming games be on this system, if it wasnt even clearing PS4 baseline.

 

[GhostTrick]

It might not have the literal bandwidth, but that doesn't mean its overall ability will not exceed the PS4 which it most certainly should.

Click to shrink...

Then again, bandwidth can be a strong issue at higher resolution.

Bandwidth maybe, but pretty much every else in terms of RAM, CPU, Storagespeed, more modern GPU features etc..
Thats pre-DLSS. I dont think we would be getting all these Leaks of Sega pretty much planning to have most of their upcoming games be on this system, if it wasnt even clearing PS4 baseline.

Click to shrink...

In portable mode, that remains to be seen yes.
It's not as clear cut as you might think especially if they target 1080p.

 

[NukeRunner]

Then again, bandwidth can be a strong issue at higher resolution.



In portable mode, that remains to be seen yes.
It's not as clear cut as you might think especially if they target 1080p.

Click to shrink...

I think it's important to consider that the Steam Deck which is sold at a higher margin than a dedicated console, far less efficient since nothing is dedicated to its spec specifically, and that its years old, yet still more or less a portable PS4 should be telling. Sure the Switch 2 will be smaller, but it will likely be more modern and by nature much more efficient. It's also assumed that it won't be cheap at launch, so it's likely Nintendo has figured out a good baseline to commit to here.

Most rumors put the output at something between PS4 and PS5 in terms of fidelity, probably closer to PS4, which is the same exact scale we got with the Switch in contrast to the 360 and PS4. There really is no reason Nintendo would go sub PS4 unless they really wanted to hit a cheaper target price, but that seems unlikely considering how much the most expensive Switch SKU sells.

 

[Adam T]

I like the Switch and I'm fine with Nintendo's next system being an incremental update.

Also, Switch is ARM architecture, meaning this will also be ARM, so it will use less power than the Steam Deck.

 

[TonyBaduy]

I am just going to say that we should all expect DLSS to get updatedon the system as time passes, it probably is already using DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction, maybe it's up to 3.7 already. Anything that is not a "new Nvidia gen" exclusive feature the Switch 2 will get.

 

[naff]

I will be disappointed if the next Switch is called anything other than the Super Switch.

Click to shrink...

Reading all these potential names I'm just left wondering.... What's wrong with Switch 2? 😔

 

[Baby Bird]

Controller backwards compatibility is great for me. It pretty much guarantees my two 8bitdo controllers keep compatibility.

 

[Charismagik]

I wish they would put the power cord attachment in the top. It's really annoying if you want to play handheld while charging with it on the bottom

 

[cw_sasuke]

I wish they would put the power cord attachment in the top. It's really annoying if you want to play handheld while charging with it on the bottom

Click to shrink...

Would be really bad in terms of docking the system, so that's unlikely to happen since it's one of the better things about the Switch compared to other systems.

 

[NukeRunner]

Would be really bad in terms of docking the system, so that's unlikely to happen since it's one of the better things about the Switch compared to other systems.

Click to shrink...

I wonder how inefficient/expensive a wireless system would be for the system and dock? Could keep a port at the top still for this purpose.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Would be really bad in terms of docking the system, so that's unlikely to happen since it's one of the better things about the Switch compared to other systems.

Click to shrink...

OK, here's an idea: What if the system had TWO USB-C ports? One on the bottom for the dock and one on the top for charging/accessories?

 

[NukeRunner]

OK, here's an idea: What if the system had TWO USB-C ports? One on the bottom for the dock and one on the top for charging/accessories?

Click to shrink...

This could work as long as there is a way to prevent people from trying to charge it twice, which you know would happen.

 

[WackoWambo]

Take a shot every time someone mentions DLSS or the chip without mentioning the constraints of heat and battery life that Nintendo will operate this device under.

This thing will run about as good as a steam deck and that's great! Fantastic even! People need to reign in the expectations.

 

[Rickyrozay2o9]

Imagine implying that Nintendo never pushes the envelope in the same generation they not only released the most powerful consumer grade handheld console for years, but also kickstarted a whole unexplored form factor both in the mobile and PC space.

Click to shrink...

Great system absolutely but not a great performer. Most games didnt hit their frame rate target as often as they should and a majority of them were below 720p natively and it didn't get better with time. So be it the console or game optimization I was never overly impressed even though I owned one.

Now with the Switch 2 having DLSS capability and a 1080p screen I'm optimistically very interested in what this could do from a hardware perspective.

 

[Charismagik]

Would be really bad in terms of docking the system, so that's unlikely to happen since it's one of the better things about the Switch compared to other systems.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, i knew it would affect docking...maybe have a top and a bottom? I'm sure that wouldn't fly design-wise, though

 

[JoJoBae]

Take a shot every time someone mentions DLSS or the chip without mentioning the constraints of heat and battery life that Nintendo will operate this device under.

This thing will run about as good as a steam deck and that's great! Fantastic even! People need to reign in the expectations.

Click to shrink...

This. Like it'll be Steam Deck performance with DLSS on top for better resolutions or similar to deck resolutions at better wattage. And that's totally fine! Deck is barely 2 years old and still blows people away.

I feel like expectations are reaching pre Wii U launch levels and many people will be let down. I still remember how one of the superfan expectations on the previous forum for Wii U graphics was Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition at PC settings and textures lmao. And we knew what the chip was at that point too

 

[Grapezard]

Take a shot every time someone mentions DLSS or the chip without mentioning the constraints of heat and battery life that Nintendo will operate this device under.

This thing will run about as good as a steam deck and that's great! Fantastic even! People need to reign in the expectations.

Click to shrink...

Hey, DLSS introduced me to my wife.

 

[ThatsMyTrunks]

1080p screen sucks for Backwards compatibility since 720p doesn't scale evenly to 1080. It's kinda like playing DS games on a 3DS with the stretched resolution.

But backwards compatibility is all I'm hopin' for.

 

[Maple]

View: https://twitter.com/NateTheHate2/status/1784747534562275710

 

[naff]

1080p screen sucks for Backwards compatibility since 720p doesn't scale evenly to 1080. It's kinda like playing DS games on a 3DS with the stretched resolution.

But backwards compatibility is all I'm hopin' for.

Click to shrink...

Sure, integer scaling won't work but reconstruction is perfect for that res and will look great. It will be a big part of the generic compatibility layer

 

[ThisIsMyDogKyle]

1080p screen sucks for Backwards compatibility since 720p doesn't scale evenly to 1080. It's kinda like playing DS games on a 3DS with the stretched resolution.

But backwards compatibility is all I'm hopin' for.

Click to shrink...

Perhaps they'll be able to just run the Switch 1 docked mode profile while handheld on Switch 2 which would fix the issue somewhat.

 

[JoJoBae]

1080p screen sucks for Backwards compatibility since 720p doesn't scale evenly to 1080. It's kinda like playing DS games on a 3DS with the stretched resolution.

But backwards compatibility is all I'm hopin' for.

Click to shrink...

I'm hoping that this means that all BC games will run in docked profile at all times actually? But otherwise yeah it'll be weird

 

[NSESN]

I agree that people should reign in expectations but some people's obsession to compare it to deck like it is the perfect handheld device is weird. It start to sound less like reigning expectations and more not accepting that switch 2 perhaps will have some aspects where it will be superior to Deck

 

[naff]

I agree that people should reign in expectations but some people's obsession to compare it to deck like it is the perfect handheld device is weird. It start to sound less like reigning expectations and more not accepting that switch 2 perhaps will have some aspects where it will be superior to Deck

Click to shrink...

fr, deck is a great pice of hardware, but Nintendo would have to settle on some very conservative handheld clocks for it to not eclipse the deck.

I'm assuming they will go with a 10w power draw in handheld mode, but wouldn't be surprised if they let it push a little higher. switch 1 drew up to 16w docked, less than 10 undocked

 

[Mister_X]

I agree that people should reign in expectations but some people's obsession to compare it to deck like it is the perfect handheld device is weird. It start to sound less like reigning expectations and more not accepting that switch 2 perhaps will have some aspects where it will be superior to Deck

Click to shrink...

Great post

 

[Angie]

So... They acknowledging this in the fiscal report?

 

[Vic20]

so what's gonna be *the* thing for the Switch 2, I refuse to believe Nintendo is gonna to put out a console whose only main selling point is that it has better specs than it's predecessor, they are innovators at heart, it's in their nature.

I'm just surprised that all these leaks and nothing about the big gimmick(unfair to call it that)/feature that sets it apart.