More and more I appreciate that the LOTR dialogue wasn't dumbed down...
- Thread starter BossAttack
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counterpoint: "if another word comes pouring out of your cunt mouth i'm going to eat every fucking chicken in this room"
i love lotr so much though
Love it when movies and TV shows have elegant and poetic dialogue.
Which is why I'm so glad I finally got around to watching Deadwood.
Which is why I'm so glad I finally got around to watching Deadwood.
Phillipa Boyens getting no love. Didn't they bring her on because she was an English teacher or something? I'm sure she had a part in this in addition to Fran Walsh.
Salty, m'lord.
N'uncle.
Salty, m'lord.
The cadence of the dialogue in Spartacus is part of what makes it so great. The way they talk is great (is it Latin sentence structure or something?)
Aragon's line from the trailer versus what he says at the Council of Elrond is a fucking travesty.
What the hell is this post?
Tolkien is obviously a magnificent writer but a lot of the original dialogue in the LOTR films is also true to the spirit of the books. Even The Hobbit is.... mostly authentic:
You can see what they're going for, even if it's not as poetic as Tolkien's text. The books are on another level.
You can see what they're going for, even if it's not as poetic as Tolkien's text. The books are on another level.
lotr has so many issues from a social perspective. is what im pointing out. Many ppl are judging got from that perspective also.its a double standard imo.
I adore it. So clever and well done. What's that you say? Watch the extended editions again today? Sure thing man.
Only one line bothers me in the EE; when Gimli says he has his axe embedded in an orc's "nervous system". Like how do they know what that is? Is dwarven science more advanced than we know?
Only one line bothers me in the EE; when Gimli says he has his axe embedded in an orc's "nervous system". Like how do they know what that is? Is dwarven science more advanced than we know?
its possible Im conflating two issues. Imo lotr grrm jordan etc books can be wordy and adaptations are too "unreal"/"wonky" if done too faithfully to the books. And why I prefer the culling of that language in shows and thus disagree with this tread. Having said that maybe Im reading too much reditt freefolk and just getting tired of the lotr vs got backlash.
'Ye Olde' gives the dialogue a heightened level of poetry in the language that makes it more mystic and fantastical which works very well in a setting like LOTR. I think it sounds very beautiful and is a joy to listen to, and I appreciate that the writers did such a good job at conveying Tolkien's incredible faculties for languages over to the movies. It really paid off.
Return of the King just makes me cry floods from the last hour or so.Theoden saying "I know your face" when he first sees Eowyn after coming out of Saruman's influence and then later again in ROTK when she finds him dying after killing the Witch King...
"I can't carry it for you... but I can carry you!"
"For Frodo."
"I'm glad you're here with me Sam. At the end of all things."
"My friends... you bow to no one."
"And so here at last, at the shores of the sea, we come to the end of our Fellowship. I will not say do not weep, for not all tears are an evil"
"It's over Sam... but not for me"
"... I'm home."
Man I am so grateful these films exist.
That line makes sense in Game of Thrones and the world it depicts.
LOTR would be really, really weird with dumbed down straightforward language. I wonder how the translations in other languages come off.
https://tokybook.com/lord-rings-audiobooks/
I urge you to give the Audibooks a listen from Toky really great stuff gone through them twice now.
I urge you to give the Audibooks a listen from Toky really great stuff gone through them twice now.
Ah, yes. "Avengers....assemble!" Such beautiful wording.
I grew up with and love comic books, but this is not a case I'd be making.
I spent Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday watching all the extended editions for the first time. The last time I had watched these movies was the theatrical versions as a teenager (I was 13 when Fellowship released). I don't think I appreciated the dialogue back then, but I sure do now.
I told my wife it's insane to me that these movies were made at the level they were, but I'm so glad they were and that they were such a success. I cried several times throughout, mostly in the scenes involving Sam I think. I also think the CG holds up pretty well. What Howard Shore did with the soundtrack is also incredible. I'll need to go through all the special features one day.
I told my wife it's insane to me that these movies were made at the level they were, but I'm so glad they were and that they were such a success. I cried several times throughout, mostly in the scenes involving Sam I think. I also think the CG holds up pretty well. What Howard Shore did with the soundtrack is also incredible. I'll need to go through all the special features one day.
This is one hell of a good thread, Boss.
Solid points all around and something that anyone who works or dabbles into creating fantasy fiction has to contend with, I promise.
Solid points all around and something that anyone who works or dabbles into creating fantasy fiction has to contend with, I promise.
The really important thing here is that the overall quality of the writing, shooting and acting are what makes the Ye Olde speech work. If the whole package wasn't worthy, it would just feel forced or silly. The Lord of the Rings trilogy can afford Yo Olde speech because it earns the right to use it straight. Most fantasy fiction doesn't.
i still remember seeing that in the theatre almost two decades ago, and I knew then that the movie will be in my heart forever.
You really should. Some great stuff in the making ofs
Kingdom of Heaven directors cut is in my top five favorite movies.
Criminally underappreciated film.
One of the reasons I'm dubious about Amazon's LOTR TV show is the lack of dialogue the writers can directly lift from Tolkien. There isn't much there, and what there is, mostly comes from the Akallabêth, which may well represent just one season of the five planned.
Original Tolkien-esque dialogue from unproven writers has the potential to go very wrong.
Original Tolkien-esque dialogue from unproven writers has the potential to go very wrong.
Eloquent, poetic, masterful use of language? Hardly.
A certain line delivery at the right time that makes a film experience epic? Most certainly.
Not necessarily comparing the vernacular qualities here; just the context of what translates to making a film experience "great". For Lord of the Rings, its flowery language helps elevate its material.
For a different type of film, a silly line like "Hasta la vista, baby" or "I'll be back" becomes a cultural touchstone.
I went off on a tangent about how ppl think flowery words work as well in tv/movies as books etc.
If written with the intent, hearing these words only enhances them. All the stylized dialogue of a play or screenplay is meant to be listened to rather than just read. It is no different from any other thing in films or the stage that are too perfect to be real, like singing, dancing, or lighting.
As long as it is written to be acted, it doesn't have to be natural at all. Which is not the same as saying that any beautiful prose in a novel can go unmodified into a play or a screenplay.
OP
OP
I've been listening to LotR on tape recently, and after every book (as approximate as I can make it with the films), I watch an extended edition film. It's crazy how much of the dialog is taken from the books 1:1. Absolutely the correct move as well, Tolkien was damn good with English and knew how to set a scene.
Yep agree, it's brilliant. There's nothing wrong with using flowery language. It's a stylistic choice which can work wonderfully. Just like how not all movies go for a gritty realism visual aesthetic, the same applies to dialogue.
The biggest challenge faced by the writers of Amazon's LOTR: Second Age TV show will be the lack of dialogue that they can use from the source material available to them.
The Akallabêth has little that they could utilise, and the remaining Secomd Age material is pretty scant.
The Hobbit is a prime example of what happens when the writers stray from Tolkien's dialogue.
The Akallabêth has little that they could utilise, and the remaining Secomd Age material is pretty scant.
The Hobbit is a prime example of what happens when the writers stray from Tolkien's dialogue.
Hobbits are admittedly super chill. It's actually a testament to the quality of the movies that despite everyone speaking English, they clearly have different dialects. The elves and the human nobles speak very formally, but your average human or your typical hobbit will speak very casually.
Oh, absolutely, it's a great detail. And just so I'm clear I wasn't having a dig with that quote - I'm actually rewatching the extended edition right now and just passed that point, lol. Those little moments of far more casual dialogue (especially from the hobbits) always cracked me up, and even now they don't seem as out of place as they might in some other piece of media.
Also I was kinda just hoping someone would reply back with "Well that rules you out, Pip." ;0;
Elrond's monologue about Arwen's future in Middle-Earth combined with the visuals was always a highlight to me
They have one of the finest Tolkien scholars in Tom Shippey involved. I think, depending on how involved he is, they'll try to be as true to Tolkien's style as possible.