I'm more interested in seeing how games that will target 30fps on next gen run on PS4/XB1.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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I'm more interested in seeing how games that will target 30fps on next gen run on PS4/XB1.
Well we will have to see, whatever happens I will find the DFs with stadia/lockhart/ps5/anaconda interesting
They won't be cross gen.
Cross gen games will be games designed for x1/ps4 and work on next via BC or next gen version.
In 2008 NVIDIA had shown this demo running on an 8800 GTX, a 0.345TF GPU:
DICE's solution looks much better, but if you can do that on an 8800 GTX, I guess that games which focus on character models like Detroit will probably be willing to invest the GPU time to render realistic hair. Funny enough, I have a feeling that FIFA's single player campaign, which most of the time only renders a few characters in a room, might be the first games to use this Frostbite feature :)
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Just ignore him.
Troll post is getting out of hands lately and many are feeding them too.
Truth is the first thing people going to notice about cross gen games are the loading .
Games that target 30fps could end up like Shadow of Mordor ports for PS3\360 if they really using the power of next gen .
Stadia has the advantage - or so they claim - of being able to use multiple instances/resources to improve a game performance when needed. They're using a intel CPU, an AMD GPU, Linux OS and Vulkan API, it all sounds like a dream but, unless they are able to drastically reduce the input lag and improve the image quality I don't see the service being an immediate sucess with the gaming community.
I do think that PS5/XBX2 will be the last of their kind, the idea of having datacenters that can be updated every X years and use resources as needed sounds pretty amazing.
Shawn Layden said last year:" See you in next year." Every message Sony sends is well calculated and they are not acting on week for week basis.
The abscene of E3, the Wired article, heck I wouldn't rule out that they knew a Video from the investor conference would be posted.
So far they are feeding the invested Gamers and Journalists with tidbits of info, but not to an extent that the masses think PS5 is coming soon.
Every speculation we do with the information at hand is part of the marketing Plan to slowly rise awerness.
Why start with the mentioning of a fast SSD solution?
There could be a couple of reasons. How do you talk about next gen without giving away specs 15 months before launch? Talk about a feature which everyone understands and is a key diffentatior between current and next-gen.
Maybe they know that their solution is faster than MS. Maybe Sony wants to get this info into the minds of people, so it doesn't get drowned when all the other
specs are revealed.
https://www.legitreviews.com/phison-ps5016-e16-pcie-gen4-x4-demo-at-ces-2019_210110
".. As impressive as these results are from a 2TB SSD (CrystalDiskInfo was reading the capacity incorrectly), we were told it is just the beginning. Phison believes that they are going to be able to get up to around 4800 MB/s for sequential and 900,000 IOPS for Random 4K performance before this drive is ready for consumer use. Moving over to BiCS4 NAND Flash will help improve performance by 10% over BiCS3. Phison believes they can get about another 10% through firmware optimizations."
Ray Tracing:
I love Cerny smirey grin when ray tracing gets mentioned, never gets old.
They made a seperate Block just for Ray Tracing
https://boards.greenhouse.io/sonyinteractiveentertainmentplaystation/jobs/1589394
Knowledge of physically based shading, global illumination, or ray tracing
So the question still remains. Is the NAVI architecture better designed for RT? Or will there be dedicated hardware?
Maybe it is just a software implemantion after all.
Navi for PC will not have RT this year but could have in their next version. PS4 Pro also had Vega Tech in their customised Polaris Chip.
Maybe just maybe, and this totally lalaland, they could have licensed the tech from Imganination:
https://www.imgtec.com/news/press-r...nounces-ray-tracing-technology-for-licensing/
"London, UK; 9th May 2019 – Imagination Technologies announces its PowerVR Ray Tracing technology for licensing, enabling state-of-the-art realistic image rendering using light-modelling techniques to be integrated into graphics processing units (GPUs) across mobile, automotive, server and other markets. The technology is part of PowerVR's ongoing GPU roadmap which delivers optimal PPA (Power Performance Area) solutions."
Microsoft approach to its chip:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/events/FY-2019/Barclays-Global-Technology-Media-Spencer
"..The thing that's interesting for us as we roll forward is we're actually designing our next gen silicon in such a way that it works great for playing games in the cloud and also works very well for machine-learning and other non-entertainment workloads. So as a company like Microsoft, we can dual-purpose the silicon that we're putting in. We have a consumer user for that silicon and we'll have enterprise use for those blades as well.
It's all in our space around driving down cost to serve, and your cost to serve is made up by two things, how much was the hardware and how much time was that hardware monetized? So we can monetize that hardware over more cycles in the day, in the 24 hours, through game streaming and other things that needs CPU and GPU in the cloud, and we will drive down the cost to serve in our service.
So the design as we move forward is done hand-in-hand with the Azure silicon team. And I think that creates a real competitive advantage. If you look on the map of where Azure lives today on the planet, it lives really close to a lot of people who don't play our traditional games today. This is about global scale through the infrastructure that Azure has built and making sure that our silicon and the work that we're putting into those data centers is used for multiple uses inside of Microsoft."
There are two perspective to it: 1) Through dual purpose of the silicon they can maximize the Powertarget by offsetting the cost through the use in server farms. 2) Maybe they added stuff on silicon which is not usefull in creating the fastest Realtime 3d graphics possible but is nescessary for Azure workloads.
Pro and Contra Arguments: MS can bake DX12 features right on the silicon like they did with the OneX. Heat and Watts still exist.
Vega or Navi? If it is Vega, it should be a heavly customised one with some next gen features. This chip is still a good choice for servers.
On the other Hand we got this slide as of late and personaly i beleive MS will also use NAVI:
Thanks for reading
The abscene of E3, the Wired article, heck I wouldn't rule out that they knew a Video from the investor conference would be posted.
So far they are feeding the invested Gamers and Journalists with tidbits of info, but not to an extent that the masses think PS5 is coming soon.
Every speculation we do with the information at hand is part of the marketing Plan to slowly rise awerness.
Why start with the mentioning of a fast SSD solution?
There could be a couple of reasons. How do you talk about next gen without giving away specs 15 months before launch? Talk about a feature which everyone understands and is a key diffentatior between current and next-gen.
Maybe they know that their solution is faster than MS. Maybe Sony wants to get this info into the minds of people, so it doesn't get drowned when all the other
specs are revealed.
https://www.legitreviews.com/phison-ps5016-e16-pcie-gen4-x4-demo-at-ces-2019_210110
".. As impressive as these results are from a 2TB SSD (CrystalDiskInfo was reading the capacity incorrectly), we were told it is just the beginning. Phison believes that they are going to be able to get up to around 4800 MB/s for sequential and 900,000 IOPS for Random 4K performance before this drive is ready for consumer use. Moving over to BiCS4 NAND Flash will help improve performance by 10% over BiCS3. Phison believes they can get about another 10% through firmware optimizations."
Ray Tracing:
I love Cerny smirey grin when ray tracing gets mentioned, never gets old.
They made a seperate Block just for Ray Tracing
https://boards.greenhouse.io/sonyinteractiveentertainmentplaystation/jobs/1589394
Knowledge of physically based shading, global illumination, or ray tracing
So the question still remains. Is the NAVI architecture better designed for RT? Or will there be dedicated hardware?
Maybe it is just a software implemantion after all.
Navi for PC will not have RT this year but could have in their next version. PS4 Pro also had Vega Tech in their customised Polaris Chip.
Maybe just maybe, and this totally lalaland, they could have licensed the tech from Imganination:
https://www.imgtec.com/news/press-r...nounces-ray-tracing-technology-for-licensing/
"London, UK; 9th May 2019 – Imagination Technologies announces its PowerVR Ray Tracing technology for licensing, enabling state-of-the-art realistic image rendering using light-modelling techniques to be integrated into graphics processing units (GPUs) across mobile, automotive, server and other markets. The technology is part of PowerVR's ongoing GPU roadmap which delivers optimal PPA (Power Performance Area) solutions."
Microsoft approach to its chip:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/events/FY-2019/Barclays-Global-Technology-Media-Spencer
"..The thing that's interesting for us as we roll forward is we're actually designing our next gen silicon in such a way that it works great for playing games in the cloud and also works very well for machine-learning and other non-entertainment workloads. So as a company like Microsoft, we can dual-purpose the silicon that we're putting in. We have a consumer user for that silicon and we'll have enterprise use for those blades as well.
It's all in our space around driving down cost to serve, and your cost to serve is made up by two things, how much was the hardware and how much time was that hardware monetized? So we can monetize that hardware over more cycles in the day, in the 24 hours, through game streaming and other things that needs CPU and GPU in the cloud, and we will drive down the cost to serve in our service.
So the design as we move forward is done hand-in-hand with the Azure silicon team. And I think that creates a real competitive advantage. If you look on the map of where Azure lives today on the planet, it lives really close to a lot of people who don't play our traditional games today. This is about global scale through the infrastructure that Azure has built and making sure that our silicon and the work that we're putting into those data centers is used for multiple uses inside of Microsoft."
There are two perspective to it: 1) Through dual purpose of the silicon they can maximize the Powertarget by offsetting the cost through the use in server farms. 2) Maybe they added stuff on silicon which is not usefull in creating the fastest Realtime 3d graphics possible but is nescessary for Azure workloads.
Pro and Contra Arguments: MS can bake DX12 features right on the silicon like they did with the OneX. Heat and Watts still exist.
Vega or Navi? If it is Vega, it should be a heavly customised one with some next gen features. This chip is still a good choice for servers.
On the other Hand we got this slide as of late and personaly i beleive MS will also use NAVI:
Thanks for reading
Nah we will most likely see local hardware at least for one more gen after PS5\XB2 .
They world is a big place for streaming to fully take over in 6 to 7 years
We are in a speculation thread so I usually don't comment on every rumor but to give you my opinion that MS is using Vega in its next gen consoles:
I've seen some of Google's tech talks. They claim to have a lot of that figured out and I tested Project Stream and it worked a lot better than I thought it would. They claim to have improved the process since then.
Shawn Layden said last year:" See you in next year." Every message Sony sends is well calculated and they are not acting on week for week basis.
The abscene of E3, the Wired article, heck I wouldn't rule out that they knew a Video from the investor conference would be posted.
So far they are feeding the invested Gamers and Journalists with tidbits of info, but not to an extent that the masses think PS5 is coming soon.
Every speculation we do with the information at hand is part of the marketing Plan to slowly rise awerness.
Why start with the mentioning of a fast SSD solution?
There could be a couple of reasons. How do you talk about next gen without giving away specs 15 months before launch? Talk about a feature which everyone understands and is a key diffentatior between current and next-gen.
Maybe they know that their solution is faster than MS. Maybe Sony wants to get this info into the minds of people, so it doesn't get drowned when all the other
specs are revealed.
https://www.legitreviews.com/phison-ps5016-e16-pcie-gen4-x4-demo-at-ces-2019_210110
".. As impressive as these results are from a 2TB SSD (CrystalDiskInfo was reading the capacity incorrectly), we were told it is just the beginning. Phison believes that they are going to be able to get up to around 4800 MB/s for sequential and 900,000 IOPS for Random 4K performance before this drive is ready for consumer use. Moving over to BiCS4 NAND Flash will help improve performance by 10% over BiCS3. Phison believes they can get about another 10% through firmware optimizations."
Ray Tracing:
I love Cerny smirey grin when ray tracing gets mentioned, never gets old.
They made a seperate Block just for Ray Tracing
https://boards.greenhouse.io/sonyinteractiveentertainmentplaystation/jobs/1589394
Knowledge of physically based shading, global illumination, or ray tracing
So the question still remains. Is the NAVI architecture better designed for RT? Or will there be dedicated hardware?
Maybe it is just a software implemantion after all.
Navi for PC will not have RT this year but could have in their next version. PS4 Pro also had Vega Tech in their customised Polaris Chip.
Maybe just maybe, and this totally lalaland, they could have licensed the tech from Imganination:
https://www.imgtec.com/news/press-r...nounces-ray-tracing-technology-for-licensing/
"London, UK; 9th May 2019 – Imagination Technologies announces its PowerVR Ray Tracing technology for licensing, enabling state-of-the-art realistic image rendering using light-modelling techniques to be integrated into graphics processing units (GPUs) across mobile, automotive, server and other markets. The technology is part of PowerVR's ongoing GPU roadmap which delivers optimal PPA (Power Performance Area) solutions."
Microsoft approach to its chip:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/events/FY-2019/Barclays-Global-Technology-Media-Spencer
"..The thing that's interesting for us as we roll forward is we're actually designing our next gen silicon in such a way that it works great for playing games in the cloud and also works very well for machine-learning and other non-entertainment workloads. So as a company like Microsoft, we can dual-purpose the silicon that we're putting in. We have a consumer user for that silicon and we'll have enterprise use for those blades as well.
It's all in our space around driving down cost to serve, and your cost to serve is made up by two things, how much was the hardware and how much time was that hardware monetized? So we can monetize that hardware over more cycles in the day, in the 24 hours, through game streaming and other things that needs CPU and GPU in the cloud, and we will drive down the cost to serve in our service.
So the design as we move forward is done hand-in-hand with the Azure silicon team. And I think that creates a real competitive advantage. If you look on the map of where Azure lives today on the planet, it lives really close to a lot of people who don't play our traditional games today. This is about global scale through the infrastructure that Azure has built and making sure that our silicon and the work that we're putting into those data centers is used for multiple uses inside of Microsoft."
There are two perspective to it: 1) Through dual purpose of the silicon they can maximize the Powertarget by offsetting the cost through the use in server farms. 2) Maybe they added stuff on silicon which is not usefull in creating the fastest Realtime 3d graphics possible but is nescessary for Azure workloads.
Pro and Contra Arguments: MS can bake DX12 features right on the silicon like they did with the OneX. Heat and Watts still exist.
Vega or Navi? If it is Vega, it should be a heavly customised one with some next gen features. This chip is still a good choice for servers.
On the other Hand we got this slide as of late and personaly i beleive MS will also use NAVI:
Thanks for reading
Did you forget to include this.....
They did that on a 0.3TF card? How the hell did we miss this, this gen? thats amazing
Now imagine what a 10+TF PS5 can do!
I only tried PS Now and it worked good for me but it's only 720p so it's a bit underwhelming in therms of IQ. Looking forward to try stadia and MS solution!
eternal-pirate-king damn Cerny gave a hint about ray tracing on that video and we completely missed it. Lol
yeah I edited.
But that tweet is no indication that PS5 will have hardware tracing.
The guys reason don't even make sense, he presumes its hardware RT because we can we already do software? Wut... That makes no sense at all, just because we can do software RT now does not mean PS5 has hardware RT, makes no sense. PS5 could do RT via software too.
Or maybe he was being honest, and Sony talking about raytracing is just marketing, ticking all the boxes.
A vega 56 can do raytracing.
Well yeah marketing is part of it but all tech guys know that RT is the future .
The question is only how good will it be this gen and how they doing to do it .
Yes it makes games looking better but it also cut down on work which is important to companies .
Everybody is busy proving each other wrong.
Anyway thanks for sharing this good read
Yes, it will be a balancing act, to use die space for RT hardware or more cu's.
If the link isn't from pastebin it's not worth clicking, imo.
All this news is making my PS4 collect dust. Hard to play a game when I know that in a year I could be playing on my PS5 with improved load times and framerates.
true there was this one picture that showed us
8/16 gddr6 256 bit
We are in a speculation thread so I usually don't comment on every rumor but to give you my opinion that MS is using Vega in its next gen consoles:
Same things pathetic... Microsoft will use Navi...
If it was indeed NAVI, buildzoid did a "beak down" of what he saw. Good video if you haven't see it.
Going by the new interviews it seems developers are more interested in the part of ray tracing that reduces the time lighting artists take than the in game improvements. Which is interesting, even though i expected that will be the focus of the ray tracing.
Because you think he will say this is hardware raytracing, it would mean break an NDA, deleting the tweet is suspicious. And I am sure a ligthing artist of ND have an idea of the console architecture when you work on the same place than the ICE Team. You will be surprise when you will see hardware raytracing on the two consoles. I am sure when Mark Cerny or Microsoft engineer talked to dev, they asked a SSD and realtime hardware raytracing hardware.
This is the only way to be used in multiplatform title.
Edit: And raytracing has a huge impact on graphic pipeline, currently games are not only inefficient in raytracing because of memory incoherent access to data. But also because current gen games use ton's of different shaders and it means incoherent access to any shader effect. It means problem with GPU instruction cache trashing and cache miss. You need to redo your system shader to have only a few global shader and optimize your graphical assets for the new system...
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Revisiting this rumor.
https://reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/bqy778/ps5_devkit_pcb_specs_from_oqa/
The poster calls out VRMs and a controller thinking they are for the memory, but the controller in question is actually used for Vcore on some Nvidia graphics cards. Likewise the VRM stages are 70A monsters. The controller is a dead giveaway as it's a 10-phase controller. Memory gets a couple phases at most. The central question is whether their misunderstanding is an oversight in constructing a fake rumor, or genuine lack of understanding given they're not intimately familiar with power delivery. I'm more inclined to the latter, and think this wrinkle makes the rumor more interesting.
I also did an anagram search to try and make sense of the username, but nothing came up. Does anyone know of a good shift cipher decoder?
https://reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/bqy778/ps5_devkit_pcb_specs_from_oqa/
The poster calls out VRMs and a controller thinking they are for the memory, but the controller in question is actually used for Vcore on some Nvidia graphics cards. Likewise the VRM stages are 70A monsters. The controller is a dead giveaway as it's a 10-phase controller. Memory gets a couple phases at most. The central question is whether their misunderstanding is an oversight in constructing a fake rumor, or genuine lack of understanding given they're not intimately familiar with power delivery. I'm more inclined to the latter, and think this wrinkle makes the rumor more interesting.
I also did an anagram search to try and make sense of the username, but nothing came up. Does anyone know of a good shift cipher decoder?
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This can imply that rt in next sony is too slow for real time usage.
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Yep, the articles were in reference to the PS5 talk only. So maybe Xbox ends up having stronger RT capability in Anaconda at least.
With games taking longer and getting more expensive to make it make sense .
Any thing that can save on time and money going to be welcome by devs and the higher ups .
We already seeing more of this in other tech aspects also .
This up coming gen tech wise there a lot of interesting things up coming but it also going to be easier than ever to carry over tech .
How did you even get that idea from that interview ??
What are you talking about, the tweets were not deleted.
He said its not a comfirmation, it means nothing, it's just his opinion, which does not make sense.
But you're free to believe in conspiracy theories.
You're acting like the MS E3 conference isn't predictable. :p
1080p/30fps using the best case scenario environment and only the simplest form of reflections but yeah, it can be done in software but the question is at what fidelity.
If he deleted the tweet it would have been suspicious.
Do you know working in the same place than Naughty Dog there is one of the biggest R&D group of Sony the ICE team... This is not conspiracy, they did many tools for PS3/PS4 and so on and they are one of the first group to have an hand on new hardware. I think we will have hardware raytracing on Scarlett family and PS5.
Edit:
Yes, but it could still be a marketing point even if its used very sparingly in there games.
Right, Cyberpunk 2077 ran at 1080p/30 on a GTX 1080 TI last year. Even with optimization, that's not going to be pretty on PS4/XB1.
if that's the case I'd almost recommend selling it now, but I guess it depends on what kind of PS4 you have. If the PS5 is BC, the value of PS4's is going to drop pretty dramatically.
If he didn't delete the tweet why even bring it up?
It is a conspiracy if he's saying that it's just his opinion.
It's more reliable to go by what he actually said then your speculation.
A console with an RX 480 inside in 2016 at 399 it's lackluster. Meanwhile the counterpart needed an year more and an higher price point to beat that.
Ps4 pro could like or less but it seems the exact contrary of a lackluster hardware.
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great post. these two screenshots here lead credence to the rumor that the next xbox is Vega based. we have been hearing a lot of rumors about MS investing in AI or machine learning and using the cloud and i think they will use that over 7nm Navi Cloud gaming chip for that reason alone.Microsoft approach to its chip:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/events/FY-2019/Barclays-Global-Technology-Media-Spencer
"..The thing that's interesting for us as we roll forward is we're actually designing our next gen silicon in such a way that it works great for playing games in the cloud and also works very well for machine-learning and other non-entertainment workloads. So as a company like Microsoft, we can dual-purpose the silicon that we're putting in. We have a consumer user for that silicon and we'll have enterprise use for those blades as well.
It's all in our space around driving down cost to serve, and your cost to serve is made up by two things, how much was the hardware and how much time was that hardware monetized? So we can monetize that hardware over more cycles in the day, in the 24 hours, through game streaming and other things that needs CPU and GPU in the cloud, and we will drive down the cost to serve in our service.
So the design as we move forward is done hand-in-hand with the Azure silicon team. And I think that creates a real competitive advantage. If you look on the map of where Azure lives today on the planet, it lives really close to a lot of people who don't play our traditional games today. This is about global scale through the infrastructure that Azure has built and making sure that our silicon and the work that we're putting into those data centers is used for multiple uses inside of Microsoft."
There are two perspective to it: 1) Through dual purpose of the silicon they can maximize the Powertarget by offsetting the cost through the use in server farms. 2) Maybe they added stuff on silicon which is not usefull in creating the fastest Realtime 3d graphics possible but is nescessary for Azure workloads.
Pro and Contra Arguments: MS can bake DX12 features right on the silicon like they did with the OneX. Heat and Watts still exist.
Vega or Navi? If it is Vega, it should be a heavly customised one with some next gen features. This chip is still a good choice for servers.
On the other Hand we got this slide as of late and personaly i beleive MS will also use NAVI:
Thanks for reading
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