Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

Miniature Kaiju · Dec 12, 2019

MrKlaw said:
16 or 20 is still a low overall multiplier so assuming we expect SSD to mitigate that, is it likely to make a significant meaningful difference which it is? 16 is obviously easier architecturally to support.

16GB will probably have more than twice as much memory available for the game when compared to the 12GB in the X, something like 4 to 5x the amount available for the PS4, and that's still pre-loading/caching quite a bunch of stuff.

A pretty inordinate amount of memory was used for pre-loading/caching, frequently more than half of the available RAM.

rokkerkory · Dec 12, 2019

MrKlaw said:
16 or 20 is still a low overall multiplier so assuming we expect SSD to mitigate that, is it likely to make a significant meaningful difference which it is? 16 is obviously easier architecturally to support.

Yeah I don't think games are leveraging all the ram x1x is providing to max potential.

bcatwilly · Dec 12, 2019

It is nice to see that important people from both Microsoft and Sony can both be excited and have some fun with next gen talk instead of the mess we all participate in here :) Cory and Phil are talking about possibly sitting next to each other at The Game Awards tonight here.

chris 1515 · Dec 12, 2019

Miniature Kaiju said:
16GB will probably have more than twice as much memory available for the game when compared to the 12GB in the X, something like 4 to 5x the amount available for the PS4, and that's still pre-loading/caching quite a bunch of stuff.

A pretty inordinate amount of memory was used for pre-loading/caching, frequently more than half of the available RAM.

The speed they can fill the entire RAM will be important too. If it is fast enough maybe we are worrying too much of the RAM quantity.

bcatwilly said:
It is nice to see that important people from both Microsoft and Sony can both be excited and have some fun with next gen talk instead of the mess we all participate in here :) Cory and Phil are talking about possibly sitting next to each other at The Game Awards tonight here.

Gaming Industry peoples are much more friendly than console warriors.

Banamy · Dec 12, 2019

Carn said:
If they are designed that way, that's quite the assumption. And I wonder if it's possible to design something as complex as a game engine thats scalable in literally everything that it does.

It's being designed with PC in mind :)

Sekiro · Dec 12, 2019

bcatwilly said:
It is nice to see that important people from both Microsoft and Sony can both be excited and have some fun with next gen talk instead of the mess we all participate in here :) Cory and Phil are talking about possibly sitting next to each other at The Game Awards tonight here.

Ah dude there measuring each others specs! Nice.

Carn · Dec 12, 2019

Banamy said:
It's being designed with PC in mind :)

So you still need to design it to work with slow harddrive IO speeds.

Kerberosorthos · Dec 12, 2019

Carn said:
So you still need to design it to work with slow harddrive IO speeds.

Star Citizen runs on slow HDD but is designed with SSD in mind first. It is rather unplayable with HDD as it seems though but it runs.

terawatt · Dec 12, 2019

You guys are seriously underestimating the bandwidth, speed and latency differences between ssd's and ram, latency alone, average ram is about 1000 times quicker than the fastest nvme drives, ns to ms access times. Nothing is going to help with having a lack of memory.

Banamy · Dec 12, 2019

Carn said:
So you still need to design it to work with slow harddrive IO speeds.

Here's what they said

"
Halo Infinite Slipspace engine was developed with PC in mind (different hardware combinations ETC), and that PC will be "treated as a first-class citizen", but that halo PC flighting programs may come later than the other flights, due to technical challenges with developing for PC. AntiCheat for PC was already confirmed earlier this year."

Kerberosorthos · Dec 12, 2019

Banamy said:
Here's what they said

"
Halo Infinite Slipspace engine was developed with PC in mind (different hardware combinations ETC), and that PC will be "treated as a first-class citizen", but that halo PC flighting programs may come later than the other flights, due to technical challenges with developing for PC. AntiCheat for PC was already confirmed earlier this year."

Aside from raw console exclusives I think it wouldn't even make sense for a developer to limit the work and abilities to a consoles capabilities if you are indeed working with a PC workstation that is a couple of times more powerful than a console. Sounds like a waste of money for me and talent of course.

Miniature Kaiju · Dec 12, 2019

terawatt said:
You guys are seriously underestimating the bandwidth, speed and latency differences between ssd's and ram, latency alone, average ram is about 1000 times quicker than the fastest nvme drives, ns to ms access times. Nothing is going to help with having a lack of memory.

A fair bit of memory is used to preload and cache assets, and that share of memory can be reduced if you can load data faster to it - i.e. instead of occupying 3GBs of RAM with preloaded data because you only have a 20MB/s pipe, you can reduce the preload amount to 1GB and rely on much faster and more frequent streaming at, say 1GB/s or more.

No, it won't help with active use of memory, but it will free up quite a bit of room.

sncvsrtoip · Dec 12, 2019

Miniature Kaiju said:
16GB will probably have more than twice as much memory available for the game when compared to the 12GB in the X, something like 4 to 5x the amount available for the PS4, and that's still pre-loading/caching quite a bunch of stuff.

A pretty inordinate amount of memory was used for pre-loading/caching, frequently more than half of the available RAM.

ps4 have around 5.5gb available for games, 5x5.5 = 27.5, also xox has 9 for games, 2x9 = 18, nice try ;d

GUNDAM STARDUST · Dec 12, 2019

terawatt said:
HW raytracing is a confirmation of > 5700xt, 2ghz clocks though are unrealistic, that's still pc gpu territory with aftermarket coolers.

Take me down to the paradise city where the grass is green and the girls are pretty..take.....me.......hoooooooome

Consoles are back :)

Carn · Dec 12, 2019

Banamy said:
Here's what they said

"
Halo Infinite Slipspace engine was developed with PC in mind (different hardware combinations ETC), and that PC will be "treated as a first-class citizen", but that halo PC flighting programs may come later than the other flights, due to technical challenges with developing for PC. AntiCheat for PC was already confirmed earlier this year."

I don't really care about what they are saying; I am pointing out at the fact that even if you develop for PC; it's not possible to make 'everything' scalable. Minimal specs will end up determining design choices.

gundamkyoukai · Dec 12, 2019

Miniature Kaiju said:
A fair bit of memory is used to preload and cache assets, and that share of memory can be reduced if you can load data faster to it - i.e. instead of occupying 3GBs of RAM with preloaded data because you only have a 20MB/s pipe, you can reduce the preload amount to 1GB and rely on much faster and more frequent streaming at, say 1GB/s or more.

No, it won't help with active use of memory, but it will free up quite a bit of room.

I really looking forward to some GDC vids to see how they use the SSD for certain speed .
The faster the more interesting things we might see happen .

chris 1515 · Dec 12, 2019

sncvsrtoip said:
ps4 have around 5.5gb available for games, 5x5.5 = 27.5, also xox has 9 for games, 2x9 = 18, nice try ;d

With a fast SSD the memory allocation will be different than in current gen games here the video and shared memory used for KZ Shadow Fall:

Here tons of things are preloaded inside memory. There is only 590 MB for streaming data...

You can have a much biger pool of Straming data(texture, geometry, precalculated data) with a fast SSD.

EDIT: Imagine a SSD where you turn the head and the SSD is able to fill the streaming pool so fast with totally new data and you see another world. Maybe we will have this on Xbox Scarlett and PS5.

EDIT2: Imagine some games where Alembic Geo Cache desruction is not a problem because the SSD can stream the data very fast for example.

pswii60 · Dec 12, 2019

chris 1515 said:
The speed they can fill the entire RAM will be important too. If it is fast enough maybe we are worrying too much of the RAM quantity.

Gaming Industry peoples are much more friendly than console warriors.

Everyone is friends in what is ultimately a niche and somewhat incestuous industry. It's why the console warrior rhetoric is so ridiculous.

sncvsrtoip · Dec 12, 2019

chris 1515 said:
With a fast SSD the memory allocation will be different than in current gen games here the video and shared memory used for KZ Shadow Fall:

Here tons of things are preloaded inside memory. There is only 590 MB for streaming data...

You can have a much biger pool of Straming data(texture, geometry, precalculated data) with a fast SSD.

EDIT: Imagine a SSD where you turn the head and the SSD is able to fill the streaming pool so fast with totally new data and you see another world.

I know ssd will help but still, ssd can fill ram in seconds and we target 30 or 60 fps not 0.5 frame ;)

anexanhume · Dec 12, 2019

bcatwilly said:
It is nice to see that important people from both Microsoft and Sony can both be excited and have some fun with next gen talk instead of the mess we all participate in here :) Cory and Phil are talking about possibly sitting next to each other at The Game Awards tonight here.

What's funny is he probably would do that.

Dimajjio · Dec 12, 2019

Hopefully someone nicks those Scarlett photos off Phil so we can all have a look. Then again, this is 2019, not 1919 and they'll be on his phone rather than you know, actual photographs. :D

gundamkyoukai · Dec 12, 2019

pswii60 said:
Everyone is friends in what is ultimately a niche and somewhat incestuous industry. It's why the console warrior rhetoric is so ridiculous.

Come on now industry people do consoles waring just as much when they ready .
In fact sometimes they do it for PR , marketing and user base.
Still they getting paid so you can't blame them lol

chris 1515 · Dec 12, 2019

sncvsrtoip said:
I know ssd will help but still, ssd can full ram in seconds and we target 30 or 60 fps not 0.5 frame ;)

Because you think you use all data in memory in a frame. :) You have not many things changing in a frame in one second you can change much more with a SSD latency in the ms is enough too. ;)

The worst movement is to turn at 180º. But imagine a game optimized for SSD where turning your head at 90ºc you can totally change the geometry and texture on screen.

Deleted member 52190 · Dec 12, 2019

gundamkyoukai said:
Come on now industry people do consoles waring just as much when they ready .
In fact sometimes they do it for PR , marketing and user base.
Still they getting paid so you can't blame them lol

It is mostly in marketing campaign because it is very effective, but that happens in every industry.

Thera · Dec 12, 2019

bcatwilly said:
It is nice to see that important people from both Microsoft and Sony can both be excited and have some fun with next gen talk instead of the mess we all participate in here :) Cory and Phil are talking about possibly sitting next to each other at The Game Awards tonight here.

chris 1515 said:
Gaming Industry peoples are much more friendly than console warriors.

pswii60 said:
Everyone is friends in what is ultimately a niche and somewhat incestuous industry. It's why the console warrior rhetoric is so ridiculous.

All of this is true.
But they also are responsible of some of those wars throught PR talk.

anexanhume said:
What's funny is he probably would do that.

Probably

chris 1515 · Dec 12, 2019

Thera said:
All of this is true.
But they also are responsible of some of those wars throught PR talk.

Probably

PR war is more on executives side. People in studios are friendly between them.

Thera · Dec 12, 2019

chris 1515 said:
PR war is more on executives side. People in studios are friendly between them.

Yeah my wording wasn't great. What I wanted to pointed is that console war isn't 100% on consumers side.

chris 1515 · Dec 12, 2019

For those who think what is Alembic Cache destrution, this is in this video of Gears 5 visual art It is at 07:45 but I share the video on the right sequences. They use it for visual desruction during gameplay but sparingly because it use many RAM. With SSD in consoles we can imagine a more liberal use or use more often Geometry Cache duing gameplay sequence.

Deleted member 59519 · Dec 12, 2019

GUNDAM STARDUST said:
Take me down to the paradise city where the grass is green and the girls are pretty..take.....me.......hoooooooome

Consoles are back :)

A next-gen Burnout Paradise remake with RT 😃

🚗🚗🚗🚗🚗🚗🚗🚗

sncvsrtoip · Dec 12, 2019

chris 1515 said:
Because you think you use all data in memory in a frame. :)

Nope it's not what I think :) As I wrote ssd will help but it's not magic pill for lack of ram and 13gb for games doesn't look great for 2020-2027 time period

sncvsrtoip · Dec 12, 2019

https://pastebin.com/gDuF3fNC
Todays pastebin, I have to say good one

chris 1515 · Dec 12, 2019

sncvsrtoip said:
Nope it's not what I think :) As I wrote ssd will help but it's bot magic pillnfor lack of ram and 13gb for games doesn't look great for 2020-2027 time period

Other things virtual texturing is reducing RAM you need inside memory for texture and the bandwitdh need on storage side. With a perfect storage not the case of SSD but a single 4096*2048 texture would be enough to store all the texture pixels needed for a frame. We will need more but it helps with texture streaming.

I am not worrying at all for RAM size in Next generation consoles. I suppose we will have great demos to see what is possible to do with the SSD during next-generation consoles reveal.

Stixitnu · Dec 12, 2019

I'll check back in here when the two consoles are officially revealed.

Munki · Dec 12, 2019

bcatwilly said:
It is nice to see that important people from both Microsoft and Sony can both be excited and have some fun with next gen talk instead of the mess we all participate in here :) Cory and Phil are talking about possibly sitting next to each other at The Game Awards tonight here.

God of War 5 coming to Scarlet confirmed!!! ;)

JahIthBer · Dec 12, 2019

Carn said:
So you still need to design it to work with slow harddrive IO speeds.

I really don't think devs care tbh, i think they will tell PC gamers to play it on their SSD, they have been around for a decade now & there is no excuse, im sure a SATA3 SSD can do fine at min but tell people recommended is NVME.

Anthony Hopkins · Dec 12, 2019

sncvsrtoip said:
https://pastebin.com/gDuF3fNC
Todays pastebin, I have to say good one

So you made this?, if not where u get it from?

jroc74 · Dec 12, 2019

Stixitnu said:
I'll check back in here when the two consoles are officially revealed.

When they're officially revealed, this thread will probably be closed soon after.

Might as well buckle up and enjoy the ride right now. Just buckle up tight.

TheModestGun · Dec 12, 2019

sncvsrtoip said:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15219/early-tsmc-5nm-test-chip-yields-80-hvm-coming-in-h1-2020

Would this be considered a good yield? I don't have a lot of context for past yield rates and the article wasn't completely straight forward. From what I could understand it seems like it was a good thing?

Expy · Dec 12, 2019

Anthony Hopkins said:
So you made this?, if not where u get it from?

From pastebin? Just use the search function.

Deleted member 20297 · Dec 12, 2019

Munki said:
God of War 5 coming to Scarlet confirmed!!! ;)

I guess then it is ok to release the successor of TOW also on playstation :)

Anthony Hopkins · Dec 12, 2019

Expy said:
From pastebin? Just use the search function.

Search what? Where?

sncvsrtoip · Dec 12, 2019

Anthony Hopkins said:
So you made this?, if not where u get it from?

nope, ps5 search in pastebin :-) btw cat from avatar is Lulu ?

sncvsrtoip · Dec 12, 2019

TheModestGun said:
Would this be considered a good yield. I don't have a lot of context for past yield rates and the article wasn't completely straight forward. From what I could understand it seems like it was a good thing?

yep

sncvsrtoip · Dec 12, 2019

jroc74 said:
When they're officially revealed, this thread will probably be closed soon after.

Might as well buckle up and enjoy the ride right now. Just buckle up tight.

it should be still open at least one week after reveal of both consoles, for sure it will be fun :-)

TheModestGun · Dec 12, 2019

sncvsrtoip said:
yep

Higher yield generally equates to more wiggle room for pricing correct since they don't have to eat as much production cost? If thats the case, maybe that could explain why we might be getting such a power jump at potentially reasonable prices?

Anthony Hopkins · Dec 12, 2019

sncvsrtoip said:
nope, ps5 search in pastebin :-)

Using Google? I cant find a search in pastebin.com

Consequence · Dec 12, 2019

I just can't believe anyone has that level of access to info in that pastebin at both companies and is leaking at this point. A developer would not know the back and forth of that story.

Expy · Dec 12, 2019

Anthony Hopkins said:
Using Google? I cant find a search in pastebin.com

At the top of the page man.

GUNDAM STARDUST · Dec 12, 2019

sncvsrtoip said:
https://pastebin.com/gDuF3fNC
Todays pastebin, I have to say good one

Why do people even bother with this foolishness. Is it some kind of creative writing exercise for some? And also I can't trust anyone that doesn't know the difference between "loose" and "lose".

sncvsrtoip · Dec 12, 2019

Anthony Hopkins said:
Using Google? I cant find a search in pastebin.com

put your mobile in horizon mode ;d

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

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