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Nier: Automata Mafia - To serve mankind... up on a platter via vote.
- Thread starter lokiduck
- Start date
A scum doctor on tiny teams that was designed to compliment and contrast the town doctor, with plenty of monkeys own play, and hell sparks for that matter, backing that circumstance.
And like, You said it yourself here, "from what weve seen" youre coming at this from a lack of information while acting like its a solved matter, still early in a game that could well have something we havnt seen that solves it. Your rushing ahead because you cant abide by a question mark in a game thats designed for fuckery.
Why are you all so intent to downplay what im saying while really just sidestepping most of my argument?
I mean i know why, its monkey and something about her inspires patholigical behaviour.
The lack of counter targets is fair, partly i wasnt expecting what feels so fucking obvious to me to be such a sisifian task and to take this much attention, partly that iv turned around on zeke after that absolutely absurd pm grammar argument and he was my next primary target, and the rest of my reads being a jumbled mess of "whose playing this from scums perspective and whose just a bloody idiot".
But hey, you opened today saying "monkeys a sure thing so lets look for our next targets". Go nuts.
And dont think i didnt notice you just entirely ignored the circumstances of monkey being the only one able to protect the other, not in contention to be voted out, town doctor.
Lovers can have different alignments. Masons are the most complementary as they confirm each other as town.
It's a bigger leap to me in assuming town androids do not have any town aligned protection.
Like for real i feel like im just being ignored and that i play with a community that just doesnt respect me enough to take one of the few sustained and multifacited arguments im actually here to make seriously.
I mean, you're the one who claimed when there was no reason for scum to target you at night beforehand.
Why? It's been shown there's a plethora of roleblocking roles and scum limited to only attacking on particular nights. Town doesn't need complete protection coverage for the game to be balanced. There are plenty of ways for kills to be stopped. I mean, we've seen this in action, both c4 and HP had their kills stopped, so no, its not a big leap at all.
It's just weird to me that people who I believe to be very strong players seem to be single minded and not thinking about any other possibilities. I know Maol is trying to make sense of his results but the stuff I just quoted just does not make for a good argument. I would feel much better if he just went "these were my results, I am following my results" rather to make role assumptions that just feel off.
No one's ignoring you. Most ppl have acknowledged all your points, just that you see that as Monkey has to be scum and we dont.
Also another reason I have taken a step back from you. Not trying to be a distraction.
It is absurd to me that Monkey has a defense force when this is blatantly not town!Monkey whatsoever. She has done zero today to progress the game. She has spent more than half the phase defending herself, or focusing on either Zeke or LP, and still hasn't come to any solid conclusion about either of them.
She says the kill on HP was bad, which baffles me. The kill on HP was solid, even if don't consider his vig abilities, HP was never going to be an option for a flip. Killing him was a solid low info kill that informs nobody of the makeup of the scum team that killed him. Monkey glosses over this very easy to see fact to defend her reasoning on why she chose not to protect him on N2. As someone else already stated, she didn't even have Sneeks in her strong town reads on D2, but you're telling me it's believable that she chose to protect her over HP, because she was right about Chuggs? When she was scum reading Monkey?
Like, this is ridiculous. I get that you're seeing the game from a certain design perspective, but Monkey is not behaving like her typical town self whatsoever. She is keeping the day stagnant, she is repeating herself over and over, I've been waiting for her to get back to looking at anex's or even c4's wagons to look for Odd Team members and she's just not done it. I don't even want to look for other scum players right now because I don't want to convince people there's a case on someone other than Monkey because she's got multiple defenders right now. No, we flip Monkey today, she's scum. I'm certain of it. Hang me if I'm wrong.
She says the kill on HP was bad, which baffles me. The kill on HP was solid, even if don't consider his vig abilities, HP was never going to be an option for a flip. Killing him was a solid low info kill that informs nobody of the makeup of the scum team that killed him. Monkey glosses over this very easy to see fact to defend her reasoning on why she chose not to protect him on N2. As someone else already stated, she didn't even have Sneeks in her strong town reads on D2, but you're telling me it's believable that she chose to protect her over HP, because she was right about Chuggs? When she was scum reading Monkey?
Like, this is ridiculous. I get that you're seeing the game from a certain design perspective, but Monkey is not behaving like her typical town self whatsoever. She is keeping the day stagnant, she is repeating herself over and over, I've been waiting for her to get back to looking at anex's or even c4's wagons to look for Odd Team members and she's just not done it. I don't even want to look for other scum players right now because I don't want to convince people there's a case on someone other than Monkey because she's got multiple defenders right now. No, we flip Monkey today, she's scum. I'm certain of it. Hang me if I'm wrong.
That has been the basis for the Monkey push since the results happened. Yall just got distracted with other stuff
We literally caught not town off the back of looking at anex's wagon in conjuction with how he was playing and Monkey has decided to not continue to do that to town's benefit. this isn't a townie
Not what I said.
I want to address these two above together. I'm with Ephidel here - I don't think being controlled means anything either way in multiball. Case in point: MGS, where we had a power like that in the multifaction situation.
What about it?
you're having a rough image day, dude. i wish you gifs that loop perfectly.My Jada gif is fucked
it's not a great time! tbf, I bring plenty on myself.
This is very wholesome.
but - say what? Where?
Do you townread Neon or was that just because he was new[returned]?
Thorny 100% will be flipped before endgame, there's no way that flip doesn't happen down the line with how contentious her slot has been.
Scum is 100% going to be somewhere within the pool of Hedin, LP, Neon, Cheshire, Neki, Ephi, and EC. Why no focus here, on the players most likely to be scum? Monkey's focused on LP a little bit, but apparently can't figure him out. She's got a town read on Cheshire based on a few posts I guess. And that's literally it. She's got no substantial reads on the players most likely to be scum.
She was catastrophically incorrect with her read on Chuggs, a player she nailed as scum correctly the last game she played. Like, none of this points to a town player.
Scum is 100% going to be somewhere within the pool of Hedin, LP, Neon, Cheshire, Neki, Ephi, and EC. Why no focus here, on the players most likely to be scum? Monkey's focused on LP a little bit, but apparently can't figure him out. She's got a town read on Cheshire based on a few posts I guess. And that's literally it. She's got no substantial reads on the players most likely to be scum.
She was catastrophically incorrect with her read on Chuggs, a player she nailed as scum correctly the last game she played. Like, none of this points to a town player.
when you decided to spend most of the day defending yourself or going in circles with Zeke and LP.
That has been the basis for the Monkey push since the results happened. Yall just got distracted with other stuff
I think I am explaining myself badly. If someone wants to follow the results then just do that. I'm more to taking offense that people who keep making up reasons why there can't be a town aligned android doc for example. It's the attempt to shutdown conjecture and push everything towards this narrow view of the game. I guess I should have said that I was looking for "The claim is believable and it could fit but with the results I think it's something that needs to be resolved."
After realizing I had misread Random's PM wrong I had intended to back off the Monkey defense force but I keep seeing arguments that are drawing me in like catnip.
Your outlandish conjectures to explain away my results by focusing on design speculation are what's driving me to continue to find other reasons to flip her when the results of my track should have been enough from the start.
"I tracked Monkey to the dead person."
"Well she could still be town because she's a doctor."
"OK, well here's other behavior that points to her not being town."
"Why are you focusing on other arguments to flip her???"
"Well she could still be town because she's a doctor."
"OK, well here's other behavior that points to her not being town."
"Why are you focusing on other arguments to flip her???"
This is the fucking stupidest circular logic spin I've ever seen. I'm leaving. Watching Dune, continue to do nothing, whatever.
Can we talk about this?
I trust Stan. I believe his claim, especially based on our past conversation.
Hedin, Cheshire, Ephi, and jman remain my most comfortable townreads. Nothing's really happened to shake that, but I have generally liked their responses today - they're consistent and natural. Now that I'm finally all caught up with everything and have some time I'm going to... go hang out with my person for a little bit. And then go back to digging. I need to look through LP's responses but I just kinda need to reassess a little and then look back at d1 and d2 votes. I do think HP was a bad kill but I don't want to speculate too far down that rabbit hole.
I probably missed some things I might have been asked. just ping me.
Neki seems like an odd target, but I looked back through your reads and but Neki as a choice aligns with your posts/reason for targeting (at least among the people you mentioned as not having much read on). Did you consider anyone you scumread?
You can fit the roles as claimed into just about any configuration. That's the thing. Two town docs, two scum docs, one of each, one neutral (probably not now with two neutrals), but rinse and repeat this with any role at this point. I will say:
I trust Stan. I believe his claim, especially based on our past conversation.
Hedin, Cheshire, Ephi, and jman remain my most comfortable townreads. Nothing's really happened to shake that, but I have generally liked their responses today - they're consistent and natural. Now that I'm finally all caught up with everything and have some time I'm going to... go hang out with my person for a little bit. And then go back to digging. I need to look through LP's responses but I just kinda need to reassess a little and then look back at d1 and d2 votes. I do think HP was a bad kill but I don't want to speculate too far down that rabbit hole.
I probably missed some things I might have been asked. just ping me.
I mean..............I've been screaming we have to resolve the results for two days. Like I said everything else with monkey aside. We have a tracker that tracked her to a dead person and herself.
Within the first hour of the tracking results
Exactly.
Have a good time. I watched and it got me lookin at diving into the books.
This is bullshit. You ghosted for a phase and a half because you were busy. Today I had a busy day. Give people the same grace you asked for. Period.
Multiple people are moving me to scum or unsure in there reads today and late yesterday.
Also My standing will get worse if you happen to Flip scum
It's only a matter of time until I am on trail I am getting ahead of it.
Light Townread Yes.
wow, Maolfunction at what point today did I slide over to your scum list? Because jman1954goat gave me some gifts? Half crap gifts? ugh go fish in a different direction.
for the record, my (non) vote goes to Monkey, we must resolve this. gotta either find scum and have a path forward that way, or flip town, take the L, and target the people who are positive she is scum. Unless more serial killers kill us all first.
for the record, my (non) vote goes to Monkey, we must resolve this. gotta either find scum and have a path forward that way, or flip town, take the L, and target the people who are positive she is scum. Unless more serial killers kill us all first.
And people were rightly calling me out for the aberrant behavior. I even said at EoD if people were confident in my flip, then cool. It's not bullshit to call out behavior that doesn't line up with your usual town play. If you disagree with that, you can argue with me post game.
Cool hindsights 20/20 im talking about what your doing now tho, instead of again ignoring the point to instead answer with something functionally irrelevant.
Zeke you have repeatedly ignored questions iv posed you all game, and then turned around and called me useless for your indolence.No one's ignoring you. Most ppl have acknowledged all your points, just that you see that as Monkey has to be scum and we dont.
Also another reason I have taken a step back from you. Not trying to be a distraction.
On what universe could i interpret this as you having any kind of basic respect for me?
How about the fact I think Monkey is scum and so I don't give a rat's ass about her potential to protect you
It's how process of elimination works. the pool of players is shrinking so any unconfirmed player is inevitably going to be in the pool of players who could be scum. you haven't done anything this game that's particularly lock town, so you're a candidate to be scum. I'm sure I'm on multiple player's scum lists too, it's how it works
Why not test it? Why not give it a single day to see how it plays out, all the while getting whatever new info from claims and flips and whatever that colours in the fog of war, leaves less and less room for doubt regarding your result, and leaves monkey only an even more viable vote?
Because if Monkey is the last Even Team member it could stop the night kill?
Only time I "ignored" you was when I said I didnt want to argue about the two scum team speculation. IIRC I explained that to you. Called you useless after you called me stupid fo not seeing how monkey is cleared with your claim.
Why wouldnt i have basic respect for you? It's a game.
Dont forget, you also may have to deal with the fact that monkey saves someone else like she did saving Neeks over HP.
What if Monkey decides to not kill you Stan? Does that clear her completely in your mind? Is that all that needs to happen for you to think she's green checked? Pretty easy test to pass don't you think.
That.. is finally a fuckin valid argument against something iv said holy shit, forgot what that felt like for a minute there.
Only thing to say to that is that if monkeys not a town doc we aught to have all sorts of RB and other interference that could stop her right? I forget if it was you or someone else that made that argument.
Yeah exactly, you literally ignored me multiple times, and youve called me useless several times before today.Only time I "ignored" you was when I said I didnt want to argue about the two scum team speculation. IIRC I explained that to you. Called you useless after you called me stupid fo not seeing how monkey is cleared with your claim.
Why wouldnt i have basic respect for you? It's a game.
Like, is this gaslighting? Are you just fucking with me right now.
Not at all a complete clear, but it does mean your wonderful town doctor that you all believe got to survive another day so thats a pretty nice consolation prize, from my perspective.
This is some major revisionists history.
You came in Big Mad when people where Voting You.
I was annoyed that people were wagoning me based off something I couldn't defend, but I said multiple times it was understandable where the arguments were coming from. Check the ISOs, I'd didn't have much D2.
Gonna need some quotes on that. Looking over your posts with Zeke in them all I see is you complaining about my play all game.
That's how I play? You know this: I'm quiet and reactive. It's NAI.
Also the conversations have been mostly dominated by one or two people a day. Day ends have been quiet as well and I haven't been around for them.
I'm clearing 10 posts a day easily though.
As for today I intend to look at people I don't have a firm grasp on yet, namely Neon. But sure, I'll say that my efforts haven't been my best work and I could do more.
I'm not going to be night killed anytime soon and I haven't been a wagon since D1 so I'll get there eventually my own way. Now where have I heard that before.
Hedin's position has been "Chuggs is scum" and then "Monkey isn't scum, Zeke is". Attaching himself to you is one way to get town read, I guess.
IIRC Hedin posted a better reads list. I'll have to look back to see exactly what it was.
I wouldn't take too much credit for c4. He was a neutral and not teamed, and also a counter wagon. But funny how you survived considering how the day started.
As for the critiquing...is this not how you develop reads? You see what people post and you point out what's wrong or missing. Is it easy when there's agreement?
I thought I quoted something about multiball, but it seems to have disappeared. So I'll say this. MGS was easy because I was scum so I only had to look for the other scum team and no one mentioned multiball until much later. This game is different because I'm town, and I have to keep reminding myself that "not town = scum" but "not scum != town". It just makes it harder to clear people, and thus harder to develop reads from interactions.
Im on my break and this sushi aint gonna eat itself but are quotes nessesary? You just brought up the two scum team thing, i refered you back to that several times after and you continued to ignore me.
I mean its also abundantly clear you havnt taken a thing iv said elsewise seriously, nut thats the one i at least know you know of.
Earlier someone brought upa prior case for scum doctots even in multiball (im assuming that means multi scum games?) Games, would anyone mind point me toward this since its such a solid precedent?
Because for real the idea of a scum team of two being half doctor sounds ludicrous to me even before the android/machine doc pairing is factored in.
Because for real the idea of a scum team of two being half doctor sounds ludicrous to me even before the android/machine doc pairing is factored in.