• Introducing Image Options for ResetEra 2.0! Check the left side navigation bar to show or hide images, avatars, covers, and embedded media. More details at the link.

Nintendo hits popular homebrew YouTuber, Modern Vintage Gamer, with numerous copyright claims forcing him to stop making Switch homebrew videos.

Oct 25, 2017
4,714
yes it is. you are only allowed to make a copy (which must be made by you not downloaded or received from someone else) which runs on the same device as the original. This rule was made so it the copy gets damaged you still have the original. but in the case of Mario 64 is must be played on the N64 and no other device.
That is absolutely not what the law states, and has been proven repeatedly. See Sony vs Bleem!, Sony vs Connectix, etc

Emulators for any computing device can be implemented on any other computing device, as long as they do not contain copyrighted material (ex, bios files). Copyrighted material cannot be shared, but personal rips can be created in most countries and it is perfectly legal for such software to be used in emulators as long as again, that data is not distributed.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
7,285
yes it is. you are only allowed to make a copy (which must be made by you not downloaded or received from someone else) which runs on the same device as the original. This rule was made so it the copy gets damaged you still have the original. but in the case of Mario 64 is must be played on the N64 and no other device.
Actually there are specific exceptions for when software is not available on a given device.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,406
Can we say that if VC was a thing in the Switch, people wouldn't look for other ways to play Nintendo legacy games on the switch?
No. The Wii got cracked open and hacked six ways from Sunday when it had far and away the best version of VC. The ideal VC. Every version of VC was shittier because 3rd parties just started making their own collections instead of having them on VC.
What matters is the popularity of the hardware and how easy it is to get into it and create robust homebrew software.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,160
Québec City
Won't someone think of the billion dollar companies?
Yeah, it's fascinating the armchair lawyers and corporate dragon riding lenghts people go to to defend Nintendo for doing this. And all of this for absolutely no gain.

My entire physical collection has been digitalized thanks to various devices I bought to be able to do that. Call the police to see what they can do about that, ffs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,265
Clear Abuse of DMCA. DMCA is not an extension of local laws in japan etc. It's not a legal arm for nintendo to use for their own purposes. You can't be dumb enough to think thats what it was lol.
 

ccieag

Banned
Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,339
Vail, CO
What you do in the privacy of your home is one thing. Putting it up on the Internet and monetizing it for the World to see is completely different - only a true idiot would think Nintendo would leave them alone, when Nintendo has done everything it can to combat ROMs and Internet piracy
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,714
Oh boy if it's illegal to void warranties then I am in some real shit.

/s

I swear people have absolutely no idea how these things actually work and just think what the corporations say is law.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,748
UK
What you do in the privacy of your home is one thing. Putting it up on the Internet and monetizing it for the World to see is completely different - only a true idiot would think Nintendo would leave them alone, when Nintendo has done everything it can to combat ROMs and Internet piracy
Nintendo can fight this if they want, but misusing a DMCA takedown is a dick move

They could also run down YouTubers who make these videos with a bus, but that would also be the wrong way to combat it

Nintendo have done a shit tier job at fighting piracy, because they ignore the demand for their older games and instead put all their time and effort into shutting down homebrew and ROM sites, when the net result of that is anyone who can use Google can download any Nintendo ROM in under 5 mins

They need to understand piracy is a service issue and try and address that instead of wasting all this time and money dicking around
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,849
PNW
What you do in the privacy of your home is one thing. Putting it up on the Internet and monetizing it for the World to see is completely different - only a true idiot would think Nintendo would leave them alone, when Nintendo has done everything it can to combat ROMs and Internet piracy
Only a true idiot would think that homebrew is only for piracy.

Nintendo is being disingenuous and is abusing the copyright violation system.

Homebrew requires voiding the warranty on your Switch. Pretty sure that Nintendo is not going to sit idly by while this video is on the Internet. I wouldn't if I were them
Theres nothing illegal about voiding a warranty lol.

Or should YouTube not have phone drop videos, iPhone repair videos, etc., either?
 
Oct 26, 2017
13
Nintendo have done a shit tier job at fighting piracy, because they ignore the demand for their older games and instead put all their time and effort into shutting down homebrew and ROM sites, when the net result of that is anyone who can use Google can download any Nintendo ROM in under 5 mins
I feel like it takes the smallest amount of effort to do what they have been doing when it comes to combating ROM sites, fan creators and select youtubers. Bringing legacy content seemingly just isn't that important to them at the moment and thus have put little effort towards it, I have a very hard time believing that they have directed all their emulation staff to legal shit.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,748
UK
I feel like it takes the smallest amount of effort to do what they have been doing when it comes to combating ROM sites, fan creators and select youtubers. Bringing legacy content seemingly just isn't that important to them at the moment and thus have put little effort towards it, I have a very hard time believing that they have directed all their emulation staff to legal.
It's fine that they're not interested in legacy content, but there is a demand for it, and if they don't want to address it some people will dump their games and use homebrew on Switch to meet that demand, others will just pirate the games they want to play

If Nintendo really wanted to address both of those things, they could, but that clearly isn't a part of their strategy, but the demand will be there regardless of what they do

Misusing a DMCA takedown is a bad look no matter which way you look at it
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,095
Sydney
Nintendo have done a shit tier job at fighting piracy, because they ignore the demand for their older games and instead put all their time and effort into shutting down homebrew and ROM sites, when the net result of that is anyone who can use Google can download any Nintendo ROM in under 5 mins

They need to understand piracy is a service issue and try and address that instead of wasting all this time and money dicking around
So 'piracy is a service issue' is going to be the new rallying cry against efforts to stop piracy by anyone is it? Libertarian nonsense.

Please explain exactly what 'service' Nintendo/Sony/Sega etc could offer that would eliminate piracy, since piracy is just a service issue? In what industry has piracy been eliminated by offering services? I'm guessing at best there are examples of completely gutted industries clawing back a fraction of their previous size by offering their wares at a pittance and finding new, intrusive funding models like embedded product placement, or growing through nasty stuff like gambling mechanics
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
75
Finland
Please explain exactly what 'service' Nintendo/Sony/Sega etc could offer that would eliminate piracy, since piracy is just a service issue? In what industry has piracy been eliminated by offering services? I'm guessing at best there are examples of completely gutted industries clawing back a fraction of their previous size by offering their wares at a pittance and finding new, intrusive funding models like embedded product placement, or growing through nasty stuff like gambling mechanics.
Didn't PC piracy start dropping massively thanks to Steam in last decade or so?
 
Apr 14, 2019
53
I kind of wanna throw out this clarification because I've seen people throwing out this idea that it's illegal to mod your console in Japan: technically it's not. It's only illegal to have a "service" offering it unless you're a licensed manufacturer. It's awful and I hate it but even here in the states we're struggling with that same thing (albeit less with consoles and more electronics in general) which is why we need more right to repair laws.

If you wanna go to japan and hack your console, nobody's gonna arrest you unless you get caught pirating software or cheating on online games or whatever. Nintendo would have no legal ability to arrest you even if they tried.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,748
UK
So 'piracy is a service issue' is going to be the new rallying cry against efforts to stop piracy by anyone is it? Libertarian nonsense.

Please explain exactly what 'service' Nintendo/Sony/Sega etc could offer that would eliminate piracy, since piracy is just a service issue? In what industry has piracy been eliminated by offering services? I'm guessing at best there are examples of completely gutted industries clawing back a fraction of their previous size by offering their wares at a pittance and finding new, intrusive funding models like embedded product placement, or growing through nasty stuff like gambling mechanics.
There is no service that can completely eliminate piracy, some people will pirate no matter what, so your question can't really be answered

People still pirate MP3s, but most just use a streaming service, people still pirate TV shows, but most just use a streaming service

Are music and TV piracy as bad now as they were in before Spotify and Netflix? I would assume not

There is no golden bullet that will kill video game piracy, but right now it's a piece of piss to pirate an old Nintendo game and it's literally impossible to buy most old Nintendo games, so there is probably a service they could offer than would reduce piracy, even if only a little
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,644
Even if you don't think the YouTuber should have videos showing how to hack hardware he owns, this is certainly an abuse of DMCA to take down his videos. It's not a gray area, either, it's just not in the law. Sadly, it's such an effective way for companies to get any video they don't like taken down, because YouTube and others take a "remove content first" approach.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,095
Sydney
There is no service that can completely eliminate piracy, some people will pirate no matter what, so your question can't really be answered

People still pirate MP3s, but most just use a streaming service, people still pirate TV shows, but most just use a streaming service

Is music and TV piracy as bad now as it was in before Spotify and Netflix? I would assume not

There is no golden bullet that will kill video game piracy, but right now it's a piece of piss to pirate an old Nintendo game and it's literally impossible to buy most old Nintendo games, so there is probably a service they could offer than would reduce piracy, even if only a little
So it's not a service issue, it might just be for an undefined subset cohort?

And those are and were reactive services to rampant out of control mainstream piracy. Offering wares for very low prices vs getting no revenue at all was the only choice they had left.

The actual reality is that piracy is and always has been largely a security issue. People will steal software for free if it's easy, and do it less if it's harder. If you spend and do enough on security, you can minimise it. Some efforts are more or less intrusive, and some more or less successful, but they're all about security.
 
Oct 28, 2017
639
I kind of wanna throw out this clarification because I've seen people throwing out this idea that it's illegal to mod your console in Japan: technically it's not. It's only illegal to have a "service" offering it unless you're a licensed manufacturer. It's awful and I hate it but even here in the states we're struggling with that same thing (albeit less with consoles and more electronics in general) which is why we need more right to repair laws.

If you wanna go to japan and hack your console, nobody's gonna arrest you unless you get caught pirating software or cheating on online games or whatever. Nintendo would have no legal ability to arrest you even if they tried.
Nintendos website also covers this:

Mod Chips
Mod chips circumvent the security embedded into Nintendo's products. To install the mod chips into a Nintendo hardware system, it is necessary to dismantle the product and, in some instances, remove components. Use of mod chips voids the consumer warranty. Mod chips have also been adjudicated to be illegal in various countries around the world, including the Unites States, the United Kingdom and Hong Kong. Countries around the globe are also adopting similar laws aimed at illegal circumvention of security measures. People caught selling or installing them may be subject to criminal prosecution and may also be liable for civil damages resulting from such activities.
https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp <- also covers their view on roms, emulator and devices to make game backups

The Switch method is not a modchip but a way to circumvent the security systems put in place. So homebrew is not accepable to them. Even if its cool on the internet.
 

ccieag

Banned
Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,339
Vail, CO
Youtube is a cesspool to begin. with. And yes, I support Nintendo or any other company taking people such as this off of the Internet. Are you telling me that what he is doing is legal? If so, maybe he should just lawyer up?
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
Nintendos website also covers this:



https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp <- also covers their view on roms, emulator and devices to make game backups

The Switch method is not a modchip but a way to circumvent the security systems put in place. So homebrew is not accepable to them. Even if its cool on the internet.
Which again, has jackshit to do with the use of DMCA takedowns.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,714
Youtube is a cesspool to begin. with. And yes, I support Nintendo or any other company taking people such as this off of the Internet. Are you telling me that what he is doing is legal? If so, maybe he should just lawyer up?
What he is doing is legal (although breaking copy protection is a bit of a mixed bag as we've seen in this thread), and what Nintendo are doing here is illegal (making false DMCA claims).

DMCA claims are rarely fought because people like him do not have the resources to fight it, they just move on to something else. That's why Nintendo are doing it.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,725
Youtube is a cesspool to begin. with. And yes, I support Nintendo or any other company taking people such as this off of the Internet. Are you telling me that what he is doing is legal? If so, maybe he should just lawyer up?
The problem with "just lawyering up" is that a. the DMCA doesn't have any punishments built in to discourage frivolous takedowns and b. lawyers aren't fucking free
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,160
Québec City
Nintendos website also covers this:



https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp <- also covers their view on roms, emulator and devices to make game backups

The Switch method is not a modchip but a way to circumvent the security systems put in place. So homebrew is not accepable to them. Even if its cool on the internet.
This has no correlation with a DMCA takedown, for christ's sake.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,748
UK
So it's not a service issue, it might just be for an undefined subset cohort?

And those are and were reactive services to rampant out of control mainstream piracy. Offering wares for very low prices vs getting no revenue at all was the only choice they had left.

The actual reality is that piracy is and always has been largely a security issue. People will steal software for free if it's easy, and do it less if it's harder. If you spend and do enough on security, you can minimise it. Some efforts are more or less intrusive, and some more or less successful, but they're all about security.
Which publisher/developer has gone with the security approach and managed to prevent any piracy at all?

It doesn't seem like it's working

It doesn't seem like it's ever worked, since there are emulators and ROMs for pretty much every system ever floating around on the internet

Also music and TV piracy did fall when it was more hassle to pirate than to pay for them, as did PC gaming piracy when Steam became prominent, you can't just hand wave those away because some people will always pirate no matter what

Yes you can pay huge sums for old carts/discs and set up a CRT TV and buy an old system, but that's a hundred times more of a ball ache than downloading the game, and that's the problem that's not being addressed

No one should pirate and no one is entitled to free games, but people will pirate if the alternative is jump through a ton of hoops. It sucks, but that's the way it is
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,320
Nintendos website also covers this:



https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp <- also covers their view on roms, emulator and devices to make game backups

The Switch method is not a modchip but a way to circumvent the security systems put in place. So homebrew is not accepable to them. Even if its cool on the internet.
Apparently this needs to be said, which is mind-boggling to me, but here goes:

Nintendo does not equal the law. Fuck their views and guidelines.
 
Apr 14, 2019
53
Nintendos website also covers this:



https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp <- also covers their view on roms, emulator and devices to make game backups

The Switch method is not a modchip but a way to circumvent the security systems put in place. So homebrew is not accepable to them. Even if its cool on the internet.
Yeah Nintendo's all about terrifying people into not doing stuff, which sucks as a big fan of theirs but that's what they do. Fortunately modchips are legal to own but selling them is another story, at least as it is right now. I'm sure they and every other they company is gonna fight to change that the second they get a chance, though. There once was a time they had a page on there (that might still be online) where they referred to fan artists as Criminal Deviants or something along those lines. Nintendo's been changing a lot but they're still pretty over kill on these issues.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,405
Homebrew requires voiding the warranty on your Switch. Pretty sure that Nintendo is not going to sit idly by while this video is on the Internet. I wouldn't if I were them
Voiding a warranty isn't illegal, don't be daft. By that metric opening the case to install a custom shell would also illegal.

Not really sure you're aware of MVG's contribution to the scene over the years...
 
Oct 27, 2017
98
The actual reality is that piracy is and always has been largely a security issue. People will steal software for free if it's easy, and do it less if it's harder. If you spend and do enough on security, you can minimise it. Some efforts are more or less intrusive, and some more or less successful, but they're all about security.
Not really. It just takes a few clicks to pirate a game on PC, with no modification to your hard- or software. Yet, it's a very profitable platform and has been receiving tremendous support from developers in these past few years. Attempts at DRM like Denuvo fail miserably, but games remain successful.