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Oct 25, 2017
4,988
Canada
I don't think Nintendo felt threatened by Steam Deck. Why should they? Steam Deck is only a little blib on the gaming market. It only exists anyway because Switch really eats into Steam indie sales.

Anyway its just that Nintendos watcher are taking down videos of clearly pirated Nintendo games, and games running on Steam Deck are definitely pirated.
Everything about this is just wrong lmao. Deck exists because the handheld PC market is growing but wasn't very accessible to western markets due to high prices. Deck is an actually affordable model that doesnt cost over 1k.

Also "definitely pirated" lmfao
 

Dodongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,464
I don't get why anyone would expect them not to. Obviously Nintendo is compelled to protect their own IP.

It's not surprising in any way.
 

Kroze

Member
Oct 28, 2017
467
I mean Nintendo also just got done attacking the channel of a BOTW mod "Second Wind" that added a crapton of features and battles onto the game… they took down like 30 videos on the dev's channel all at once showcasing all the new things they added in.

The dev thankfully was able to contest and get them back up but still… Nintendo is known for doing some really crappy stuff when it comes to youtube and their games being touched by the end user in whatever way that isn't just playing a vanilla version of it.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,551
The lack of consistency is kind of annoying. Like, there are major Youtubers/streamers (and even members of the gaming press) throughout the years that have played retro games that they have mentioned "downloading" (and somehow have folders of thousands of ripped games), but I've never seen anyone bat an eye.
 

Katmeister

Banned
May 1, 2021
2,434
The lack of consistency is kind of annoying. Like, there are major Youtubers/streamers (and even members of the gaming press) throughout the years that have played retro games that they have mentioned "downloading" (and somehow have folders of thousands of ripped games), but I've never seen anyone bat an eye.

I think Nintendo's problem isn't with people personally admitting to piracy it's people who provide ways to facilitate it. Nintendo won't go after you for downloading Super Mario Bros but they will if you host it for download and they find out. I think that's the mindset of why they're taking down the videos of emulation on Steam Deck because or though it's entirely possible to emulate without breaking any laws it's also really easy to pirate with an emulator and that's probably why Nintendo has an issue with it. It doesn't help that the Deck is a portable gaming device which likely makes Nintendo more anal about this than normal because it poses a threat. Or at least theoretically it does, I don't think the Deck is going to be much of an issue for Nintendo but maybe they just want to be sure.

Of course that's just my take and I don't condone Nintendo's actions on this.
 

Ovvv

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 11, 2019
10,030
I think Nintendo's problem isn't with people personally admitting to piracy it's people who provide ways to facilitate it. Nintendo won't go after you for downloading Super Mario Bros but they will if you host it for download and they find out. I think that's the mindset of why they're taking down the videos of emulation on Steam Deck because or though it's entirely possible to emulate without breaking any laws it's also really easy to pirate with an emulator and that's probably why Nintendo has an issue with it. It doesn't help that the Deck is a portable gaming device which likely makes Nintendo more anal about this than normal because it poses a threat. Or at least theoretically it does, I don't think the Deck is going to be much of an issue for Nintendo but maybe they just want to be sure.

Of course that's just my take and I don't condone Nintendo's actions on this.

Thing is there are dozens of videos detailing exactly how to setup Yuzu/Ryujinx and they're not taken down. It's just bizarre. They went after this vid in particular.
 

Rassilon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,601
UK
Begin handheld war the


latest


I can appreciate why Ninty would be suspicious of the deck's emulation potential
 

Septimus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,591
More and more videos will start popping up for sure. We'll see how they handle it at that point.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,897
Thing is there are dozens of videos detailing exactly how to setup Yuzu/Ryujinx and they're not taken down. It's just bizarre. They went after this vid in particular.

It's simply because there's a big spotlight on the Steam Deck right now where all the major sites are covering it, it's now finally being released, it's from a major company and so forth. You don't see the Aya Neo getting anywhere close to the same amount of coverage in the media, or even remotely the same type awareness among people out there. It really is because of how big the spotlight is on the Steam Deck right now which means more eyeballs are looking in that direction and Nintendo likely wants to curb that type of content because of it. I don't find it bizarre at all.
 

Ovvv

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 11, 2019
10,030
It's simply because there's a big spotlight on the Steam Deck right now where all the major sites are covering it, it's now finally being released, it's from a major company and so forth. You don't see the Aya Neo getting anywhere close to the same amount of coverage in the media, or even remotely the same type awareness among people out there. It really is because of how big the spotlight is on the Steam Deck right now which means more eyeballs are looking in that direction and Nintendo likely wants to curb that type of content because of it. I don't find it bizarre at all.

How embarrassing then.
 

Gusy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,079
Yeah.. They (Nintendo) must've felt a slight tickle seeing Metroid Prime running flawlessly in widescreen on the deck. Yeah I know, different devices, different markets yadda yadda...but still, knowing that the Deck could make a great switch substitute, add to that all the extra things it allows you to do.. the price difference suddenly doesn't seem so big anymore.

I don't think that targeting youtubers is a great strategy.. on the other hand I kinda see where they're coming from
 

vedrua

Member
Oct 26, 2019
195
You really have to live in your own little self-centered bubble to be outraged that a company isn't absolutely thrilled to be a victim of hacking. Especially knowing that this is not retro-gaming but games that are part of its current generation of products. Seriously, some reactions are fascinating. Obviously they are hostile to this situation. The opposite would be foolish.
 

Maximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,213
You really have to live in your own little self-centered bubble to be outraged that a company isn't absolutely thrilled to be a victim of hacking. Especially knowing that this is not retro-gaming but games that are part of its current generation of products. Seriously, some reactions are fascinating. Obviously they are hostile to this situation. The opposite would be foolish.

How is the company a victim of hacking, what hacking is occurring?
How vedrua thinks emulation happens.
giphy.gif
 
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Alvis

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,240
Spain
You really have to live in your own little self-centered bubble to be outraged that a company isn't absolutely thrilled to be a victim of hacking. Especially knowing that this is not retro-gaming but games that are part of its current generation of products. Seriously, some reactions are fascinating. Obviously they are hostile to this situation. The opposite would be foolish.
1- How is Nintendo a "victim" of anything
2- What hacking? Who is hacking? What has been hacked?
3- What
 

vedrua

Member
Oct 26, 2019
195
I obviously meant piracy. English is not my native language.

My point is that It makes no sense to pretend not to understand the difference between retro gaming and being able to access current generation games for free. Everyone knows that emulation is not a synonym of piracy. Everyone also knows that being able to access recent and still marketed games for free has absolutely nothing to do with the essential and necessary preservation of video game history.

Whether you find it legitimate just because you feel like it is your choice and everyone is free to do what they want. But we must stop being hypocritical: this is not really about anti-consumer or "anti-freedom" practice. This is about our personal desire. Wanting something is not enough to make that thing automatically ethical and morally right.

Nintendo's poor management of joy-cons is an anti-consumer scandal. Just like the potential loss of games purchased digitally. Protecting your intellectual property, and refusing to allow people to access your work for free (which simply means stealing) is not wrong. The fact that you, personally, buy games does not change the fact that this practice gives the option not to buy the games.

Emulation is legal. It is stealing that is not. Of course, we can pretend we don't understand Nintendo's problem here if you like, but I find that to be a little hypocritical.

Wanting something (a more powerful console, for example) does not give us the moral right to do whatever we want. Anyone who has a job knows that all work has value. It is paradoxical to fight, in a very legitimate way, against poor working conditions in this industry while finding it normal not to value people's work by refusing to pay for it. Because if we're being honest, emulation in general isn't the problem here, and everyone understands that.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,383
I obviously meant piracy. English is not my native language.

My point is that It makes no sense to pretend not to understand the difference between retro gaming and being able to access current generation games for free. Everyone knows that emulation is not a synonym of piracy. Everyone also knows that being able to access recent and still marketed games for free has absolutely nothing to do with the essential and necessary preservation of video game history.

Whether you find it legitimate just because you feel like it is your choice and everyone is free to do what they want. But we must stop being hypocritical: this is not really about anti-consumer or "anti-freedom" practice. This is about our personal desire. Wanting something is not enough to make that thing automatically ethical and morally right.

Nintendo's poor management of joy-cons is an anti-consumer scandal. Just like the potential loss of games purchased digitally. Protecting your intellectual property, and refusing to allow people to access your work for free (which simply means stealing) is not wrong. The fact that you, personally, buy games does not change the fact that this practice gives the option not to buy the games.

Emulation is legal. It is stealing that is not. Of course, we can pretend we don't understand Nintendo's problem here if you like, but I find that to be a little hypocritical.

Wanting something (a more powerful console, for example) does not give us the moral right to do whatever we want. Anyone who has a job knows that all work has value. It is paradoxical to fight, in a very legitimate way, against poor working conditions in this industry while finding it normal not to value people's work by refusing to pay for it. Because if we're being honest, emulation in general isn't the problem here, and everyone understands that.

You kind of lost your on plot at the end. Poor working conditions of workers at companies are partially because of piracy? Do you think that if corporations made more money they would treat workers better? That's just patently untrue. When corporations make more money, the executives and shareholders are treated better. Employees are still treated like shit.
 

vedrua

Member
Oct 26, 2019
195
That's not what I said. I said that if you care about workers, any kind of workers, as a citizen, you value their work. Corporations being bad has nothing to do with the desire to play games for free.

It feels like we are using serious and concerning issues as an excuse to legitimate personal behaviours that has nothing to do with ethical considerations. If someone wants to play a game for free, he does not have to pretend it's a way to express convictions. It's not. Boycotting products is a way to let corporations hear our voices. Stealing them is not.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,600
That's not what I said. I said that if you care about workers, any kind of workers, as a citizen, you value their work. Corporations being bad has nothing to do with the desire to play games for free.

It feels like we are using serious and concerning issues as an excuse to legitimate personal behaviours that has nothing to do with ethical considerations. If someone wants to play a game for free, he does not have to pretend it's a way to express convictions. It's not. Boycotting products is a way to let corporations hear our voices. Stealing them is not.
Hacking a switch and dumping your files is pretty easy though, it's what I've been doing

Buying > Dumping > Emulating

Still paying and not getting anything for free

Not everyone is going to do this, but also people playing on Emu are already like 1% of total players anyway.
 

Goddo Hando

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,739
Chicago
valve is still marketing this deck to people who are on the fence about what it does. I can't imagine nintendo does this forever, but right now.... it's kind of a selling point if it's possible to emulate switch on the deck.

kinda like how you can tell analogue bristles over people buying the Pocket because of the "promise" of a jailbreak
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,231
I obviously meant piracy. English is not my native language.

My point is that It makes no sense to pretend not to understand the difference between retro gaming and being able to access current generation games for free. Everyone knows that emulation is not a synonym of piracy. Everyone also knows that being able to access recent and still marketed games for free has absolutely nothing to do with the essential and necessary preservation of video game history.

Whether you find it legitimate just because you feel like it is your choice and everyone is free to do what they want. But we must stop being hypocritical: this is not really about anti-consumer or "anti-freedom" practice. This is about our personal desire. Wanting something is not enough to make that thing automatically ethical and morally right.

Nintendo's poor management of joy-cons is an anti-consumer scandal. Just like the potential loss of games purchased digitally. Protecting your intellectual property, and refusing to allow people to access your work for free (which simply means stealing) is not wrong. The fact that you, personally, buy games does not change the fact that this practice gives the option not to buy the games.

Emulation is legal. It is stealing that is not. Of course, we can pretend we don't understand Nintendo's problem here if you like, but I find that to be a little hypocritical.

Wanting something (a more powerful console, for example) does not give us the moral right to do whatever we want. Anyone who has a job knows that all work has value. It is paradoxical to fight, in a very legitimate way, against poor working conditions in this industry while finding it normal not to value people's work by refusing to pay for it. Because if we're being honest, emulation in general isn't the problem here, and everyone understands that.

Piracy directly correlates with goodness, availability and easiness of legal options.
To legally obtain Switch roms, you need hackable Switch.

It will push people towards piracy, even if they own legit copy (as downloading is still illegal even if you own legit copy).
Obviously it doesn't make it right, but people will continue to do so, as there's practically zero change of getting caught.

I'd imagine in world where Nintendo sold legal roms, there would be much less piracy.
Because people would be willing to pay for legal roms.

Similar to what is happening with streaming (at least in some countries), Netflix all but killed piracy, since pirates lost advantage of being available and not tied to TV schedule. (And potentially 1-2 year delay if you didn't live in US).
and now with price increases and content being split between dozens of services, piracy is on rise again.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,770
valve is still marketing this deck to people who are on the fence about what it does.

So is Microsoft "marketing" the Series S similarly?



Just because its an open platform doesn't mean its an endorsement for piracy. Come on.

You can run PC pirated games on the Deck as well, wonder what the messaging is here. /s
 

Goddo Hando

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,739
Chicago
So is Microsoft "marketing" the Series S similarly?



Just because its an open platform doesn't mean its an endorsement for piracy. Come on.

You can run PC pirated games on the Deck as well, wonder what the messaging is here. /s


switch is current gen. We're talking about a platform that can replace a current gen console,

piracy is piracy but lets not pretend ps2 and switch are on the same playing field for urgency in terms of policing from the big three.

and no i'm not saying valve is doing the marketing, it's just that this is a crucial time for people deciding to buy a deck, and nintendo probably doesn't want this cutting into switch sales. We can say it wont matter, but ninty will lose sales on people who are looking at this as a switch replacement
 
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spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,770
switch is current gen. We're talking about a platform that can replace a current gen console,

piracy is piracy but lets not pretend ps2 and switch are on the same playing field for urgency in terms of policing from the big three.

and no i'm not saying valve is doing the marketing, it's just that this is a crucial time for people deciding to buy a deck, and nintendo probably doesn't want this cutting into switch sales. We can say it wont matter, but ninty will lose sales on people who are looking at this as a switch replacement

So you're saying Nintendo are worried about losing potential customers who would rather opt to pirate Nintendo games on the Deck (which is already backordered till next year and impossible to get easily) rather than buy a Switch and pay regular full prices for games. Okay, sound logic...
 

Rotimi

Banned
Dec 25, 2017
1,758
Jos , Nigeria
Piracy directly correlates with goodness, availability and easiness of legal options.
To legally obtain Switch roms, you need hackable Switch.

It will push people towards piracy, even if they own legit copy (as downloading is still illegal even if you own legit copy).
Obviously it doesn't make it right, but people will continue to do so, as there's practically zero change of getting caught.

I'd imagine in world where Nintendo sold legal roms, there would be much less piracy.
Because people would be willing to pay for legal roms.

Similar to what is happening with streaming (at least in some countries), Netflix all but killed piracy, since pirates lost advantage of being available and not tied to TV schedule. (And potentially 1-2 year delay if you didn't live in US).
and now with price increases and content being split between dozens of services, piracy is on rise again.

Very apt. One of the best comments in this whole thread for me. Sadly I don't feel anything for Nintendo. If it's not available for sale and can't be bought then they should not care how people get it. As you said piracy is an accessibility thing, I stay in Nigeria and many were happy to watch marvel movies in the cinema rather than pirate. Then Disney plus happened, what do you expect.

Now for switch games that is bad, paints Switch in a bad light if it's running better, and may encourage minuscule amount people to pirate.
I don't support piracy, even though I stay in a country that many still look at me with confusion on why my PS4 is not hacked. Thankfully I can afford to buy full price games once in a while and mostly on sales.
So legally sell your stuff at a good price and people will buy
 

Goddo Hando

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,739
Chicago
So you're saying Nintendo are worried about losing potential customers who would rather opt to pirate Nintendo games on the Deck (which is already backordered till next year and impossible to get easily) rather than buy a Switch and pay regular full prices for games. Okay, sound logic...

this isn't some AliExpress device, this is Valve who are a pretty big deal. There's a lot of heat on the Steam Deck, is all i'm saying
 

Daysean

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,396
So you're saying Nintendo are worried about losing potential customers who would rather opt to pirate Nintendo games on the Deck (which is already backordered till next year and impossible to get easily) rather than buy a Switch and pay regular full prices for games. Okay, sound logic...

Yeah thats sound logic lol, if i was a pirate my choices would be
1. Being patient (Switch titles aren't going anywhere, also if i REALLY switch games so badly in this scenerio, i wouldve bought one already, its 2022) and waiting for a steam deck and pirating on a (possible, assumed) better running experience
vs
2. Buying a switch and paying full price for games (despite the fact that people forget that switch can also be pirated on its software)

I'm sure Nintendo obviously isn't seeing this as some huge humongous threat and i wouldn't say they are "worried" either, but if you have the power to then why not curb something thats even slightly on the map even as a blip?
 
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Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,810
Does Switch emulation on the Deck actually perform better than original Switch performance or is this just something people are assuming? All the videos I've seen are of equal or slightly worse performance. Obviously there's a motivation to emulate Switch on powerful PCs to get native 4K or push 60 fps mods, but even with improved emulation, I'm not sure how much further the Deck can get. I'm more interested in playing PC ports of Switch games where at least the better performance is guaranteed.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,770
Does Switch emulation on the Deck actually perform better than original Switch performance or is this just something people are assuming? All the videos I've seen are of equal or slightly worse performance. Obviously there's a motivation to emulate Switch on powerful PCs to get native 4K or push 60 fps mods, but even with improved emulation, I'm not sure how much further the Deck can get. I'm more interested in playing PC ports of Switch games where at least the better performance is guaranteed.

It performs worse.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,639
Completely natural.

These aren't ancient games. Pirated copies of their currently released, new games are floating around the internet, and in my personal opinion common sense would indicate that only a small number of people in possession of these roms actually legally dumped them themselves. Most owners of roms probably wouldn't even know how to dump them themselves. The majority of this is piracy. Of course they're going to want to discourage people from using them. They should protect their IP.