User Banned (2 Weeks): Inflammatory False Equivalence
Really? Why?
Imagine if a male artist stated that he doesn't want women attending his shows because he makes man art. That just creates a contentious situation for absolutely no reason.
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Noname (black female rapper) may quit music, says she won’t perform for mostly white audiences
- Thread starter nsilvias
- Start date
Imagine if a male artist stated that he doesn't want women attending his shows because he makes man art. That just creates a contentious situation for absolutely no reason.
There a reason why her audiences are predominantly white? Doesn't seem like it has anything to do with the content of her music. I get why this would be uncomfortable for her, but instead of quitting she may just want to double down on digging into the statistics of her fanbase and find out why, be it the venue choices or whatever else, then adjust accordingly. Quitting outright seems unnecessary.
If she did that, MORE white people would show up purely out of spite. Spite is the most powerful marketing device, whether it's working towards your benefit or detriment.
Really? I seriously think you're selling Noname's music and her fans short.
I mean he would be well within his rights to do it, but he'd make himself look like a member of the KKK in the process.
I think noname herself is selling her fans short. I'm not going to say shes wrong for feeling that way but it just seems like a really bad take.
Apparently though if I don't agree with her you should only respond to me with "ok, whitey."
That'd be a better move than quitting, I'd think. If you have a target audience you do what you can to get yourself out there to that target audience.
who The fuck listens to Noname to have an excuse to say the n-word or blast in a car? She's not that kind of artist and her audience sure as shit isn't putting noname on at party.
Its her loss . We don't need additional racial divide in the music industry. If only black people were supporting black artist then people would complain that no one wants to support black artist. The popular opinion may be that only black people can say the N-word, but how about making music that everyone can enjoy and sing along to? A good song will not live or die by the N-word.
Isn't it really hard to NOT have more white fans than X fans just due to demographics in the US? If she doesn't want white people at her concerts, can she just stick to low key stuff in black neighborhoods?
Edit: Oh, she mostly does festival appearances, which are ridiculously overpriced? Can't be surprised when it's mostly white folk that can afford the tickets.
Edit: Oh, she mostly does festival appearances, which are ridiculously overpriced? Can't be surprised when it's mostly white folk that can afford the tickets.
I understand your point, but a superficial take on an artist work is not a white-exclusive thing.
Still, your message made me realize that if her music themes are related to a still mostly black issue, taking into account that American society is still far from racially egaletarian, she could feel uncomfortable with a mostly White audience, but still I cant bring myself to stop disliking a racial generalization as the one she is doing.
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I mean I'm sure she has fans who aren't dicks but 'don't say the n-word in public however you pronounce the r' isn't exactly graduate level critical race theory. I believe her when she says this is happening, and I definitely don't know how you'd get the people who screw up this easy stuff to act responsibly around more complex issues. You'd have to be really proactive about kicking out people at concerts who do stuff like that.
I caught Noname at a festival in Boston (so you can imagine, a mostly white crowd) a year or two ago. She was, by her own admission, pretty drunk and did not give a fuck.
I get the frustration with black artists singing about black life experiences to mostly if not entirely white audiences -- many of whom can't or won't connect to the substance of the music in the same way. Particularly if you've got white people in the crowd who are singing along to the n-word, as if listening to rap gives them permission to do that. At the same time...what's the solution here? Festivals are naturally going to ask for a lot to defray the cost of booking acts, for regular headlining gigs the venues and ticket vendors all take cuts. Even if the artist does have the leverage to lower ticket prices, they're hurting their own revenue then.
The other issue with festivals is that most people there aren't actually there to see you, particularly if you're lower on the undercard. So it must be doubly frustrating to have all the people in the crowd closest to you clearly not that interested anyway because they're really just camping out all day to see that night's headliner.
Shows are expensive. Festivals in particular cost a couple hundred dollars a pop, which naturally benefits affluent white concertgoers.
I get the frustration with black artists singing about black life experiences to mostly if not entirely white audiences -- many of whom can't or won't connect to the substance of the music in the same way. Particularly if you've got white people in the crowd who are singing along to the n-word, as if listening to rap gives them permission to do that. At the same time...what's the solution here? Festivals are naturally going to ask for a lot to defray the cost of booking acts, for regular headlining gigs the venues and ticket vendors all take cuts. Even if the artist does have the leverage to lower ticket prices, they're hurting their own revenue then.
The other issue with festivals is that most people there aren't actually there to see you, particularly if you're lower on the undercard. So it must be doubly frustrating to have all the people in the crowd closest to you clearly not that interested anyway because they're really just camping out all day to see that night's headliner.
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I don't know, not being white. I had however posted that before reading her being insulted.
It is and I've spoken more in depth about in the thread. I kind of jumped the gun with my initial comment.
Threads like this always expose the blatant white fragility on this site
I love her music (she was the highlight of Chance's coloring book as well) and I respect whatever decision she makes. Ultimately choosing what makes her feel most comfortable over money is fine. She doesn't owe anybody anything.
She def. is and that's her right at the end of the day. But the excerpt of that post I quoted is just... reductive as all hell. Disrespectful even. People like her music for countless reasons - a reason to say the n-word and "sick beats" are absolutely on the bottom of that list. I do get your point tho, muteKi I just think you're missing the mark a bit lol
So basically the target audience for her music don't overlap with the audience that she gets due to the venues themselves.
Pretty much. I respect her giving the finger to the festival circuit and hopefully she understands by doing that she is making it really hard on herself to make a living as a musician.
working festivals sounds soul crushing though
Yeah, there is a lot of moving parts in this that are hard to talk about outside of the "Family".
End of the day she has to do her and the right thing for her mental health
Her music is made for the pitchfork crowd, whether she intended to or not.
Well that's that.
I am a rapper myself, i am black. I've performed in front of crowds of all racial mixtures. I can empathize with it feeling differently depending on the composition.
I'm more about just generating connections in general, by sharing my life's experiences. If I can connect through my art the person doesn''t matter. Noname and I have different motivations.
She puts so much value into performing for black people, into sharing her black experience with black people. So she isn't getting what she wants out of it and is frustrated.
I have no idea how she'll get what she wants, outside of only booking shows where she feels black people will dominate the audience.
Damn I feel like I'm talking about discrimination.
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Honestly hadn't heard of Noname before this thread, but it seems like a bit of a Kurt Cobain thing of the outsider artist having the type of talent that makes them universal and the internal struggle that comes with that. Having those with very different personalities and life experiences (and often prejudice against the artist) co opt your voice seems like an incredibly difficult thing to live through
Sounds like catnip for a "woke" white audience. Not surprised.
Yep. This is pretty much how I feel about the whole situation. Well put.
Also, good luck and wishes on your music!
I wonder if she has considered doing a tour of HBCUs? Seems like a good opportunity for her to get the audience she wants.
Yeah, fair enough. Just this all calls to mind the sorts of people I knew back in middle and high school who weren't subtle about their racism, but also listened to a lot of rap music at the same time. And, since we're talking festival circuits, the pretty financially-privileged white youth who do stuff like wearing feathers.
Honestly though I need to listen to more of her stuff than I have.
Every rap show I've ever been to, big or small, festival or bar/club, has been predominantly white people.
I hate that challenging her view point or wanting to start a discussion is always viewed as "white fragility" this is a fucking discussion board with a ton of different people. Not everyone is going to feel exactly the same and reducing thoughts to this sort of thing is dismissive as fuck.
Yup.
I know he's cancelled now, but didn't something similar happen to Chappelle after his show ended? I don't remember, but I think he noticed someone white in the audience or one of the crew members laughing at a part of one of his skits really hard and it made him uncomfortable because the guy was white and laughing at the "wrong" thing.
I can understand.
I can understand.
It was his co-writer and some white staff members IIRC.
I agree with you that perhaps there are better ways of nuancing her fanbase on the complexities of their patronage. Generalizations based on race are especially volatile no matter which perspective you come from, but it seems from the deleted tweet the conversation was already radicalized via venue access issues.
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No offense, but what's the last show you went to? Smaller independent artists are not drawing strictly affluent crowds. At festivals yes, single shows no. I go to plenty of concerts as a person who works at a restaurant and everyone at my restaurant attends concerts. I've been doing it for nearly 10 years and I haven't been reach. Noname ticket is probably 30-40 tops. On top of that concerts are typically in hub cities, so they may be the best spots for diversity in any given state.
In a way this sorta reminds me of a time Dave Chappelle pointed out most people at his shows are white people despite the way his comedy actually leans.
I think that's the only way to get what she wants. She can't tell them to stop liking her music. If they want to see her show they're gonna go and she can't really stop them. The only thing she can do is perform in venues more likely to have a predominantly black audience, and the US being what it is it'll almost surely be a smaller venue than the ones she's doing now just to make that work from a stats perspective.
Sorry that I'm not taking a group of white guys and non blacks seriously when they're telling a black woman that she's wrong for feeling a certain way about being used by the whites who want to co opt her struggle
so so sorry for making you feel bad
It isn't a new thing for black entertainers to question whether the art they're producing is being received the way they intended by their audience. Chappelle canceled his show because he was uncomfortable with the way white people were laughing at him. It's a sort of voyeurism, with white people looking in from the outside where they're safe from the experiences these artists talk about. You have to wonder where to draw the line between support and objectification.
I get her position....going to Rap concerts and seeing 1000s of white people sing a long with EVERY word of the song is unnerving, uncomfortable and unnecessary.
Enjoying someones art =/= to co-opting her struggle. I like her music and that doesn't mean I'm co-opting her struggle. I don't think anyone has said she's wrong for feeling this way, either. I think this discussion has been pretty even keeled for the most part.
I don't feel bad in the slightest. I can point out your post not doing anything for the discussion at hand though.