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November 2017 NPD (U.S. Hardware) Predictions - Closes Tuesday, December 5th

Liabe Brave

Liabe Brave

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Voran Xbox Zaver said:
I don't think Nintendo's going to he a problem in Europe. It hasn't been since the OR Xbox.
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It appears you can't even be bothered to read the public information that's available. Wii sold over 101m units worldwide, and 360 sold something between 85 and 90 million; the total gap is therefore around 10m. I'm sure you know that the 360 ended up eventually outselling Wii in the US. You could also look up that Wii beat 360 in Japan by about 12m.

I hope you see that this math equates to Wii selling at least as well as 360 in Europe, and quite possibly better. So your claim that they were "no problem" for Microsoft in the region is patently false.
 
Voran Xbox Zaver

Voran Xbox Zaver

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Liabe Brave said:
It appears you can't even be bothered to read the public information that's available. Wii sold over 101m units worldwide, and 360 sold something between 85 and 90 million; the total gap is therefore around 10m. I'm sure you know that the 360 ended up eventually outselling Wii in the US. You could also look up that Wii beat 360 in Japan by about 12m.

I hope you see that this math equates to Wii selling at least as well as 360 in Europe, and quite possibly better. So your claim that they were "no problem" for Microsoft in the region is patently false.
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No it doesn't what math are you using? Remove Japan and the high NA sales and it becomes clear Nintendo was no issue in Europe with the remainder because at minimum Japan/na was at LEAST 50 million sales of that 101, and we still have the UK which I excluded, then Canada, then the south east, and the rest if Asia.
 
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donny2112

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I only kept records until mid-gen data for EU/Other, so don't have any late gen 360 push if there was one outside of the U.S. However by mid-gen, 360 wasn't handling Nintendo with no problem.

360 hits 10m across Europe+Middle East+Africa by late 2009.
Wii @ ~14m at end of 2008 in Europe only.
 
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RexNovis

RexNovis

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Oct 25, 2017
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donny2112 said:
I only kept records until mid-gen data for EU/Other, so don't have any late gen 360 push if there was one outside of the U.S. However by mid-gen, 360 wasn't handling Nintendo with no problem.

360 hits 10m across Europe+Middle East+Africa by late 2009.
Wii @ ~14m at end of 2008 in Europe only.
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Donny derailing those narratives with pesky facts. ;-)

Any idea when to expect prediction results? Seems we have a general ballpark monthly sales figure for all platforms at this point.
 

Soony Xbone Uhh

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Thorrgal said:
I'd say is not a question of being good, is a question of being true or false
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True dat.
But as we don't know if it's true or false with any certainty i think my wording is okay.

Wii sold 40.23 million across Europe and their limited ROTW markets.
For the Ps3 we don't even know the final total. We have a good idea of US sales and know JP numbers, but no clue about the ratio of Europe and their bigger ROTW presence.

And even when it comes to European sales by itself, there is no tracking from GFK for several eastern European countries.
We only know the Wii was millions ahead in some European countries even late into the gen up to 2012 and it is very unlikely Ps3 made up those numbers in 2013 (the year, the Ps4 launched) and beyond.
Unlike Ps1 and Ps2, the Ps3 had close to no legs after the successor was released.
 

fe0

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Oct 26, 2017
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donny2112 said:
I only kept records until mid-gen data for EU/Other, so don't have any late gen 360 push if there was one outside of the U.S. However by mid-gen, 360 wasn't handling Nintendo with no problem.

360 hits 10m across Europe+Middle East+Africa by late 2009.
Wii @ ~14m at end of 2008 in Europe only.
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The mid-gen data we have from GfK via Famitsu's White Paper report shows the Wii with a sizeable lead over the PS3/360 in Europe.

2008 LTD in Europe
Wii - 13.97M
360 - 7.82M
PS3 - 6.86M
2009 LTD in Europe
Wii - 19.67M
PS3 - 10.76M
360 - 10.70M
2010 LTD in Europe
Wii - 24.00M
PS3 - 13.70M
360 - 13.40M
Countries Tracked: UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Denmark, Belgium, Luxembourg, Norway, Sweden and Finland
https://web.archive.org/web/20110809195049/http://homepage3.nifty.com/TAKU64/diary/diary_9.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20110601225737/http://homepage3.nifty.com/TAKU64/diary/diary.htm


The late-gen data we have from Nintendo's internal estimates still shows the Wii leading other 7th-gen consoles in Europe.

2011 LTD in Europe
Wii - 29.5M
PS3 - 19.6M
360 - 17.4M
2012 LTD in Europe
Wii - 31.5M
PS3 - 23.9M
360 - 20.4M
http://www./forum/showthread.php?t=426128
http://www./forum/showthread.php?t=510874


We also have an interesting tidbit from NPD and GfK. It's clear that the PS3/360 had surges at the end of the console generation. The final standings would have been extremely close in Europe. While it is possible that they both overtook the Wii in the end, we simply do not have enough evidence to support the claims that they did.

2015 H1 Install Base in North America and Western Europe.
PS3/360 - 123M
Wii - 76M
http://www./forum/showthread.php?t=1104839
 
chobel

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Voran Xbox Zaver said:
I believe Microsofts goal currently is to focus on gaining back a Chuck of lost marketshare in it's dependable territories before they start looking at trying to expand for the sake of expanding.

You'll likely need to wait till next gen before you see Xbox really trying there again with Max effort, especially since Nordic countries are a different priority. As much as I don't like the terminology the tier 2 mindset is still a thing post launch for the Xbox One.
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Wait, so the new reimage is just winning NA (and I guess UK) back? Wasn't that the plan since day 1?
 

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Voran Xbox Zaver said:
I believe Microsofts goal currently is to focus on gaining back a Chuck of lost marketshare in it's dependable territories before they start looking at trying to expand for the sake of expanding.

You'll likely need to wait till next gen before you see Xbox really trying there again with Max effort, especially since Nordic countries are a different priority. As much as I don't like the terminology the tier 2 mindset is still a thing post launch for the Xbox One.
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Generations are dead for MS. Didn't you know?
 
5Twist

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Voran Xbox Zaver said:
No it doesn't what math are you using? Remove Japan and the high NA sales and it becomes clear Nintendo was no issue in Europe with the remainder because at minimum Japan/na was at LEAST 50 million sales of that 101, and we still have the UK which I excluded, then Canada, then the south east, and the rest if Asia.
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Then what's the breakdown of those regions? Sounds like you have the exact numbers, so why not divulge to show that you're not saying things out of thin air?
 
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KillerMan91

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fe0 said:
The mid-gen data we have from GfK via Famitsu's White Paper report shows the Wii with a sizeable lead over the PS3/360 in Europe.

2008 LTD in Europe
Wii - 13.97M
360 - 7.82M
PS3 - 6.86M
2009 LTD in Europe
Wii - 19.67M
PS3 - 10.76M
360 - 10.70M
2010 LTD in Europe
Wii - 24.00M
PS3 - 13.70M
360 - 13.40M
Countries Tracked: UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Denmark, Belgium, Luxembourg, Norway, Sweden and Finland
https://web.archive.org/web/20110809195049/http://homepage3.nifty.com/TAKU64/diary/diary_9.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20110601225737/http://homepage3.nifty.com/TAKU64/diary/diary.htm


The late-gen data we have from Nintendo's internal estimates still shows the Wii leading other 7th-gen consoles in Europe.

2011 LTD in Europe
Wii - 29.5M
PS3 - 19.6M
360 - 17.4M
2012 LTD in Europe
Wii - 31.5M
PS3 - 23.9M
360 - 20.4M
http://www./forum/showthread.php?t=426128
http://www./forum/showthread.php?t=510874


We also have an interesting tidbit from NPD and GfK. It's clear that the PS3/360 had surges at the end of the console generation. The final standings would have been extremely close in Europe. While it is possible that they both overtook the Wii in the end, we simply do not have enough evidence to support the claims that they did.

2015 H1 Install Base in North America and Western Europe.
PS3/360 - 123M
Wii - 76M
http://www./forum/showthread.php?t=1104839
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Really shame that Nintendo stopped sharing those charts. Maybe now when Switch actually sells well they start the tradition again. =P. Those numbers though don't include whole Europe. I mean consoles are not that big in eastern Europe but especially for PlayStation they still add decent amount of units.
 
Voran Xbox Zaver

Voran Xbox Zaver

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Sangetsu-II said:
I wouldn't be to sure about that. Couldn't hurt to impress the audience more you know.
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I mean the main blow to Xbox was price/kinect/power so just avoiding that again would be a massive improvement.

It actually makes more sense to reimage in countries they do badly in then countries were it's not really needed much. Except japan I don't think Microsoft can do anything about that even if they moneyhatted Dragon Quest
 
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Voran Xbox Zaver

Voran Xbox Zaver

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I'd actually say that Microsoft is in an interesting position in the EU countries where its doing passable to poorly in considering it seems there sales are more diversified and not ridiculously overly reliant on the UK like the 360, which alone brought the 360 up to a competitive level while it gradually dropped off everywhere else.

I think next gen with careful marketing and not taking another losing bet (Kinect 2.0 was a bet and they lost.) they could have a good showing.
 
bane833

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Voran Xbox Zaver said:
I mean the main blow to Xbox was price/kinect/power so just avoiding that again would be a massive improvement.

It actually makes more sense to reimage in countries they do badly in then countries were it's not really needed much. Except japan I don't think Microsoft can do anything about that even if they moneyhatted Dragon Quest
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The Xbox One was already losing steam since early 2017 while the PS4 is having it´s best year ever and that certainly had nothing to do with price or kinect (and i seriously doubt power is responsible either).
 
Voran Xbox Zaver

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bane833 said:
The Xbox One was already losing steam since early 2017 while the PS4 is having it´s best year ever and that certainly had nothing to do with price or kinect (and i seriously doubt power is responsible either).
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Uh we were talking about NA as a whole not just this year...

The point was that it would make more sense to really come out with with a different strategy for countries it's doing poorly in, or slightly decent, then to waster a large portion of that in territories, like the US, where it doesn't need to and can get flow back by just not making the mistakes it made from the start.
 
Wandu

Wandu

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Voran Xbox Zaver said:
I mean the main blow to Xbox was price/kinect/power so just avoiding that again would be a massive improvement.

It actually makes more sense to reimage in countries they do badly in then countries were it's not really needed much. Except japan I don't think Microsoft can do anything about that even if they moneyhatted Dragon Quest
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That blow was dealt 3 years ago. I'd say MS has been trying to reimage the brand since 2014. That boils down to the removal of kinect, os features, and hardware improvements that you mentioned earlier. If you think the main blows were the issue, then the software issues have not been addressed since 2015 with their high end software not meeting expectations and the 2017 exclusive drought perception-wise. How is 2018 goibg to be any different to reimage with the same strategy since 2014? X1X alone can't help that.
 
Wandu

Wandu

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bane833 said:
The Xbox One was already losing steam since early 2017 while the PS4 is having it´s best year ever and that certainly had nothing to do with price or kinect (and i seriously doubt power is responsible either).
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Voran Xbox Zaver said:
Uh we were talking about NA as a whole not just this year...
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I believe he was talking about NA in his post. 2017 for Xbox has been one of its worst years so far being down YoY the whole year and not in little numbers and with new S hardware which could not boost its image.
 
Voran Xbox Zaver

Voran Xbox Zaver

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Wandu said:
That blow was dealt 3 years ago. I'd say MS has been trying to reimage the brand since 2014. That boils down to the removal of kinect, os features, and hardware improvements that you mentioned earlier. If you think the main blows were the issue, then the software issues have not been addressed since 2015 with their high end software not meeting expectations and the 2017 exclusive drought perception-wise. How is 2018 goibg to be any different to reimage with the same strategy since 2014? X1X alone can't help that.
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That's not even close to what reimaging is.

The Xbox One image is exactly the same as it was in 2013. They only just used customer feedback and other metrics that led to the removal of Kinect and to drop the price, since then nothings been really different. They've always done the big updates, they always through out insider features, the only thing you can argue as a reimage is maybe the ONE X but again that's more like following up on a consumer request, their strategies been the same.

Meanwhile in other countries like say Germany, they can ride it out like that so they actually do need a new strategy there.
 
Voran Xbox Zaver

Voran Xbox Zaver

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Wandu said:
I believe he was talking about NA in his post. 2017 for Xbox has been one of its worst years so far being down YoY the whole year and not in little numbers and with new S hardware which could not boost its image.
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How could the S boost anything it's still the same thing as the Xbox one.
 
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bane833

bane833

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Voran Xbox Zaver said:
Uh we were talking about NA as a whole not just this year...

The point was that it would make more sense to really come out with with a different strategy for countries it's doing poorly in, or slightly decent, then to waster a large portion of that in territories, like the US, where it doesn't need to and can get flow back by just not making the mistakes it made from the start.
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We are and the Xbox One did quite good in the US until 2017 were we saw a pretty steep sales decline.
 
Wandu

Wandu

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Voran Xbox Zaver said:
That's not even close to what reimaging is.

The Xbox One image is exactly the same as it was in 2013. They only just used customer feedback and other metrics that led to the removal of Kinect and to drop the price, since then nothings been really different. They've always done the big updates, they always through out insider features, the only thing you can argue as a reimage is maybe the ONE X but again that's more like following up on a consumer request, their strategies been the same.

Meanwhile in other countries like say Germany, they can ride it out like that so they actually do need a new strategy there.
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Ok that's understandable and I agree they have to do something different for other countries outside of US/UK. However, if the strategy stays the same from 2013, how will it be different for Xbox now that the X is in the mix in 2018?
 
Voran Xbox Zaver

Voran Xbox Zaver

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Wandu said:
Ok that's understandable and I agree they have to do something different for other countries outside of US/UK. However, if the strategy stays the same from 2013, how will it be different for Xbox now that the X is in the mix in 2018?
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The strategy wouldn't be the same unless they go in at a higher price and with kinect again along with being a low power device.
 

Soony Xbone Uhh

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Voran Xbox Zaver said:
How could the S boost anything it's still the same thing as the Xbox one. It has a new coat of paint and lost a few pounbds but it's still the ex-wife that cheated on you. The X is supposedly supposed to be the new better wife.
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Some prefer to stay with their first love who showed dedication and passion to get in shape and lose weight and also change her past mistakes made.
Sounds good to me :)
 
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RexNovis

RexNovis

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Banned for alt accounts? You don't say! I for one am SHOCKED!

On topic: lack of compelling SW is absolutely an issue that MS needs to address if they want to appeal to a broader market. If, however, they are happy appealing to a lucrative subsection of the available market (which I think they are no matter how much they pay lip service to the idea of expanding their appeal) then their SW investment strategies won't be changing.

We will likely see some heavier investments in smaller independent games and a handful of bigger budget GAAS multiplayer Online focused titles just like we've seen thus far. It works fir them. They make a profit catering to the audience who will pay for these titles and their long revenue tails so they'll continuing trying to serve that audience and woefully under serving any other potentially less profitable ones.
 
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Silencerx98

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You guys shouldn't have spent time debating with him in the first place. It was clear that it was our old friend Microsoft Chad/Doctor Professional. He just used a new term, "reimaging", to disguise himself ;)
 
slavesnyder

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Silencerx98 said:
You guys shouldn't have spent time debating with him in the first place. It was clear that it was our old friend Microsoft Chad/Doctor Professional. He just used a new term, "reimaging", to disguise himself ;)
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i think many people just read the thread and learn something. so, having someone who cannot stop his mental diarrhea provokes serious thoughts, arguments and explanations from your side. that's good. we have next to no numbers but an impressive pagecount and a few good laughs. if they get their ban after a while it's the punishment they deserve.
 
Wandu

Wandu

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Silencerx98 said:
You guys shouldn't have spent time debating with him in the first place. It was clear that it was our old friend Microsoft Chad/Doctor Professional. He just used a new term, "reimaging", to disguise himself ;)
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I'm still very new here, so I don't know about the history of Microsoft Chad. I guess I fell into a trap lol.
 
Jom

Jom

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Damn MS should hire that man. If he's putting this much work in for free, imagine what he'd do if he was paid in XBL cards.
 
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