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LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,099
Arkansas, USA
Like, what's the point anymore? How do you combat a force so evil and so insidious that not only are they attempting to kill those who call them out via proxy, our so call allies lock step with their propaganda without a hint of irony? How do you combat evil so strong that its people proudly beats their chest with relish at the thought of murder for disagreement? What hope is there?

I just found out that I will die in 2 years without a liver transplant but what's the point? This world is on a fast track collision course with disaster and the ones in charge are either speeding it up or refusing to take a modicum of responsibility in the name of "unity". Just what's the point of anything when this world revels in cruelty.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that every country is like the US. They aren't and there is hope that things can be turned around. And don't forget that the largest generation of people in the US are just like you completely fed up with the cruel, moronic behavior of the Republican party. Things are bad now, but they won't always be.
 

capitalCORN

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,436
Well support and growth is hard for the left when the center and the center that think that they're left contribute in stifling the growth of the left.
Why do you think Republicans are picking their targets? The middle is important to both parties, and castigating 'renegades' like Omar, Cortez (done by both parties, mind you) only shifts the needle in one direction.
 

Tabaxi

Member
Nov 18, 2018
12,987
"She could've worded it better."

Or, maybe - just a thought - she shouldn't have to worry about making everything she says somehow 100% impervious to faux right-wing outrage and quote mining?

They're blatantly trying to get her killed. They'll twist and take anything she says out of context.

That's why harping about her choice of words is at best naive, and at worst unashamed islamaphobia. It's not relevant to the conversation, because right wing death squads will use anything to justify their actions.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,207
"She could've worded it better."

Or, maybe - just a thought - she shouldn't have to worry about making everything she says somehow 100% impervious to faux right-wing outrage and quote mining?

They're blatantly trying to get her killed. They'll twist and take anything she says out of context.

That's why harping about her choice of words is at best naive, and at worst unashamed islamaphobia. It's not relevant to the conversation, because right wing death squads will use anything to justify their actions.
Yup. If it wasn't "something" it would be them playing up the fact that she was speaking at a CAIR meeting and labeling her as a terrorist sympathizer. This hole is never-ending.
 

mescalineeyes

Banned
May 12, 2018
4,444
Vienna
"She could've worded it better."

Or, maybe - just a thought - she shouldn't have to worry about making everything she says somehow 100% impervious to faux right-wing outrage and quote mining?

They're blatantly trying to get her killed. They'll twist and take anything she says out of context.

That's why harping about her choice of words is at best naive, and at worst unashamed islamaphobia. It's not relevant to the conversation, because right wing death squads will use anything to justify their actions.

this is the only take.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Sorry, I was mocking the turn the thread had already taken for a long while focusing on her word choice and somehow pretending that's why this is happening to her and that there could have been any way she could have possibly expressed herself that would have been acceptable to hateful racists and bigots.

I actually do think some of those posters probably meant well but, as I'd already pointed out earlier, their concerns are wildly misplaced considering people appear to sincerely want to do her harm. That's not a result of word choice and it's either extremely naive or dangerously ignorant to suggest as much.
Yeah I got you. Sorry for mistaking you (I know how it feels like when it does happen).
Pretty sure they're being sarcastic.
Yeah I found that out later on.
 

Oligarchenemy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,332
"She could've worded it better."

Or, maybe - just a thought - she shouldn't have to worry about making everything she says somehow 100% impervious to faux right-wing outrage and quote mining?

They're blatantly trying to get her killed. They'll twist and take anything she says out of context.

That's why harping about her choice of words is at best naive, and at worst unashamed islamaphobia. It's not relevant to the conversation, because right wing death squads will use anything to justify their actions.

Yeah. It doesn't matter how she worded it, they would've twisted it regardless. It's fucking sad so many "progressives" are falling for this line.
 

kingkaiser

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
218
Essen, Germany
Well, from my European point of view the American media in general is fucked up beyond repair.
You have on one hand the (far) right wing media falsely claiming a politician for being a terrorist-sympathizer
and on the other the (far) left media dreaming up an impeachment for falsely claimed treason.
I don't know if you Americans realize it yet, but you are on a fast track right to the next civil war if this radicalization and polarization doesn't stop.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,351
Ilhan is a thousand times braver than any slime posting in this and any other thread about "Weeeeeell, if she didn't want this to happen she shouldn't have said it like that or worded it like this."

Goddamn this site disgusts me sometimes. Someone gets death threats for suggesting the US is too attached to Bibi and the first thought some of you "pragmatists" or realists or whatever the fuck you wanna call yourselves have is to chastise her.

Don't ever post in another thread about how Dems need unity from progressives again.
 

Deleted member 4274

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,435
Oh look, a Republican Islamophobe.

Is THAT what you took from this statement? Holy shit! Some of you guys are just RIGID in your thinking. I don't even necessarily agree, but come on. Ms. Omar didn't say anything wrong, but yes, she SHOULD have chosen her words more carefully here. As much as we rail on language. She's in politics. Anything she says WILL be used against her. It is what it is.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Yeah I got you. Sorry for mistaking you (I know how it feels like when it does happen).

Yeah I found that out later on.

I thought I was being obvious just from the absurdity of anyone knowingly pointing out her life is in danger and still blaming her, but honestly with the way discourse goes now I can see why you wouldn't be sure. It's all good.
 

Jeb

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Mar 14, 2018
2,166
Ilhan is a thousand times braver than any slime posting in this and any other thread about "Weeeeeell, if she didn't want this to happen she shouldn't have said it like that or worded it like this."

Goddamn this site disgusts me sometimes. Someone gets death threats for suggesting the US is too attached to Bibi and the first thought some of you "pragmatists" or realists or whatever the fuck you wanna call yourselves have is to chastise her.

Don't ever post in another thread about how Dems need unity from progressives again.
I'm with you on those bad faith actors, but lets be real, Era is still better than most.

Nearly everywhere else I go, there are rampant IDF defenders who defend genocide of all things.

Era has some bad actors but it has a lot of good people with their head in the game, ready to call out BS.
 

SaveWeyard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,540
I thought I was being obvious just from the absurdity of anyone knowingly pointing out her life is in danger and still blaming her, but honestly with the way discourse goes now I can see why you wouldn't be sure. It's all good.
Yeah, your sarcastic post being pretty indistinguishable from some of the unironic posts here is troubling, to say the least. But not surprising, considering its a black Muslim woman.
 
Oct 28, 2017
27,327
I'm 100% on her side, which is why I feel like I have to speak honestly: Rep. Ilhan made a slightly poor choice of words, and now that's being leveraged against her in a racist hate campaign.
Acknowledging that the choice of words was slightly poor isn't coming from hate or bigotry, it's coming from a belief that it's wrong to ignore mistakes made by friends because we're on the same side. That's what the other side does.
This.



The Post is horseshit but reading (not actively hearing) what she said was indeed poor.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,466
Is THAT what you took from this statement? Holy shit! Some of you guys are just RIGID in your thinking. I don't even necessarily agree, but come on. Ms. Omar didn't say anything wrong, but yes, she SHOULD have chosen her words more carefully here. As much as we rail on language. She's in politics. Anything she says WILL be used against her. It is what it is.
Or maybe, since we're supposed to be allies and all, we could give the benefit of the doubt to the former Somali refugee for whom English is a third language? It is only "what it is" if Democrats help make it that way. Otherwise it's nothing more than a bad-faith right wing attack.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Reminder that they want this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_George_Tiller

And reminder that Fox News repeatedly made outrageous lies about him (specifically Bill O'Reily) and when he was murdered, not only was O'Reily not apologetic, he then blamed the Democrats of "hating Fox News" and that hating the channel was the true crime, not his role in the murder. They hide behind blatant lies and are proud of their roles of unofficial executioners.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
I guess "always speak in a way that your statements can not be misconstrued by a group of people that actively hate you anyway" is too high of a standard for a freshman senator that's also a WoC and a muslim.

real sound logic there.

Yup.

She was 100% clear when she spoke about how she and her colleagues shouldn't have to put the interests of Israel above the interests of US citizens and it was STILL deliberately twisted into something it wasn't so no, it makes no fucking difference how well she phrases anything because she will be attacked regardless.

This is something that we've all seen to be true so anybody pulling the "phrase it better" bullshit is either an idiot (albeit misguided and well meaning but an idiot nonetheless) or someone cool with attacking someone for having the nerve to be more than token minority who exists mainly to show how woke the Dems are.
 

Deleted member 4274

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,435
Or maybe, since we're supposed to be allies and all, we could give the benefit of the doubt to the former Somali refugee for whom English is a third language? It is only "what it is" if Democrats help make it that way. Otherwise it's nothing more than a bad-faith right wing attack.

Of course it's a bad faith attack, but come on. It's not crazy to say "I wish she worded it better".
 

mescalineeyes

Banned
May 12, 2018
4,444
Vienna
Well, from my European point of view the American media in general is fucked up beyond repair.
You have on one hand the (far) right wing media falsely claiming a politician for being a terrorist-sympathizer
and on the other the (far) left media dreaming up an impeachment for falsely claimed treason.
I don't know if you Americans realize it yet, but you are on a fast track right to the next civil war if this radicalization and polarization doesn't stop.

Hey guys, as a casual observer please let me offer my tepid take that is mostly wrong. Both sides. I am very smart.
 
Oct 31, 2017
10,084
Well, from my European point of view the American media in general is fucked up beyond repair.
You have on one hand the (far) right wing media falsely claiming a politician for being a terrorist-sympathizer
and on the other the (far) left media dreaming up an impeachment for falsely claimed treason.
I don't know if you Americans realize it yet, but you are on a fast track right to the next civil war if this radicalization and polarization doesn't stop.

There is no large organised left wing of any kind in the United States, let alone far left. Your false equivalence here is bizarre.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
Of course it's a bad faith attack, but come on. It's not crazy to say "I wish she worded it better".

When she worded things in a way that was crystal clear it was STILL deliberately misrepresented so she could be attacked.

So yes, at this stage if you are still trotting out the "she should have phrased it better" then it's certainly not being done in good faith.
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,531
She's going to get assassinated at this point, and that's clearly exactly what they would all love to happen. If Trump gets re-elected America is going to be a very dark place after a few more years of this. That's guaranteed regardless at this point quite frankly. The bad guys keep winning. Urgh.


All Trump did was basically pull all of the garbage that America was hiding underneath that fragile mask to reveal the ugly truth:

That America has alot of issues that was not resolved during the Civil War and was swept under the carpet. I have a feeling that if this continues, we will have another civil war within 20 years without a drastic turnaround. And no, Boomers dying out due to old age will not resolve the issue either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
All Trump did was basically pull all of the garbage that America was hiding underneath that fragile mask to reveal the ugly truth:

That America has alot of issues that was not resolved during the Civil War and was swept under the carpet. I have a feeling that if this continues, we will have another civil war within 20 years without a drastic turnaround. And no, Boomers dying out due to old age will not resolve the issue either.

The US won't have a civil war because when push comes to shove the average person is still pretty well off and they won't risk any of that to help out some random black folks or immigrants no matter how many families get put into internment camps and have their children stolen from them.
 

Downhome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,356
Just seeing this post, only read first page. She tried to say something meaningful but did so with a foolish poor choice of words. The NY Post cover is unquestionably disgusting and they should be ashamed.
 

Kodros

Banned
Dec 18, 2017
244
As a human being that lived in the NY area during 9/11, hearing anybody say that "some people did something" when referring to what happened feels disrespectful and lacks empathy.
 

Trodimus

Banned
Apr 3, 2019
191
Well, from my European point of view the American media in general is fucked up beyond repair.
You have on one hand the (far) right wing media falsely claiming a politician for being a terrorist-sympathizer
and on the other the (far) left media dreaming up an impeachment for falsely claimed treason.
I don't know if you Americans realize it yet, but you are on a fast track right to the next civil war if this radicalization and polarization doesn't stop.

We know we just can't do anything about it.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
As a human being that lived in the NY area during 9/11, hearing anybody say that "some people did something" when referring to what happened feels disrespectful and lacks empathy.

If you only belive in nonsense soundbites that ignore broader context sure. But she's the one who has to deal with the discrimination of being a muslim when some people who belives the same religion as her committed an act and she is now fearing for her life because of ignorants who want to fear monger about her.

She doesnt owe anyone a damn thing when what she said is exactly correct. Stop tone policing her and echoing fox news talking points


On the other hand, she could have said it better. She could have said "terrorists from saudi arabia, whom the trump administration is protecting right now and numerous administrations in the past have done the bidding of".

Omar all about saying the truth, so give it maximum impact, but she was speaking off the cuff, so it wasnt about making a statement.
 

Rats

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,117
Ilhan is a thousand times braver than any slime posting in this and any other thread about "Weeeeeell, if she didn't want this to happen she shouldn't have said it like that or worded it like this."

Goddamn this site disgusts me sometimes. Someone gets death threats for suggesting the US is too attached to Bibi and the first thought some of you "pragmatists" or realists or whatever the fuck you wanna call yourselves have is to chastise her.

Don't ever post in another thread about how Dems need unity from progressives again.
This.
 

Jexhius

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
968
The media wouldn't have to do this if they weren't scared of Omar's words. She's rocking the boat and she, a Muslim woman, Aand that's why they're out to get here. That's also why the Democratic party aren't defending her, they love the status-quo too.
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,531
The US won't have a civil war because when push comes to shove the average person is still pretty well off and they won't risk any of that to help out some random black folks or immigrants no matter how many families get put into internment camps and have their children stolen from them.

Well here is the problem. Right now, White America for almost 200+ years, has taken advantage of a system that is catered towards them. That won't be true in the future as the minorities will soon be the majority and have no choice but to listen to their outcries (electing ilhan is one example). At some point, America has to recognize the minorities that suffered for years from the oppressive majority white america system that is currently in place. Minorities are now starting to use their pen/pencil and voting in key people who also support their ideas and frustration.

Problem is that this system that has been in place for so long, which now is being questioned and ridiculed by key, young minorities who are starting to get into position of power. And as you can see, this current system that was put in by white america, is frightened of this new change("make america great again" slogan was not a mistake comment by Trump. This was a purposely a callout for keeping the current system intact). Especially old money republicans (billionaires like Murdock), who are fighting tooth and nail from stopping this uprising of change from happening that they are making a profit from.

That's why I believe that either America has to do an overhaul of the system that has kept minorities in check in order for the Country, for a better future and welcome them (us) with open arms with equality. Change is coming whether those who prefer the old system like it or not. And that's why those who support the old system will fight back tooth and nail(see thread), even to the point of basically asking for bloodshed to silence anyone who is not apart of the current system.
 
Last edited:

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,506
"She could've worded it better."

Or, maybe - just a thought - she shouldn't have to worry about making everything she says somehow 100% impervious to faux right-wing outrage and quote mining?

They're blatantly trying to get her killed. They'll twist and take anything she says out of context.

That's why harping about her choice of words is at best naive, and at worst unashamed islamaphobia. It's not relevant to the conversation, because right wing death squads will use anything to justify their actions.

Seriously.

It's also clear she wasn't downplaying terrorism or whatever the fuck. I'm baffled that people are taking legitimate issue with that or think it's actually "idiotic".
 

Kodros

Banned
Dec 18, 2017
244
If you only belive in nonsense soundbites that ignore broader context sure. But she's the one who has to deal with the discrimination of being a muslim when some people who belives the same religion as her committed an act and she is now fearing for her life because of ignorants who want to fear monger about her.

She doesnt owe anyone a damn thing when what she said is exactly correct. Stop tone policing her and echoing fox news talking points


On the other hand, she could have said it better. She could have said "terrorists from saudi arabia, whom the trump administration is protecting right now and numerous administrations in the past have done the bidding of".

Omar all about saying the truth, so give it maximum impact, but she was speaking off the cuff, so it wasnt about making a statement.

I'm not echoing Fox News talking points, at least not on purpose. I'm talking about how I would feel if someone said that to me. I wouldn't be outraged or anything, it would just feel cold.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
Reactions to Omar's statements have been like an instant empathy check. It's really easy to look at something and check it against what offends you and then talk about things like "tact" and "wording things properly". It's another thing to realize that she's coming from a perspective which hasn't really had this level of visibility. (Despite many, many people championing these causes for decades!)

This isn't a level of scrutiny given to anyone, not even our word mincemeat producing president. Dogwhistles are put out as false concern. This is real concern she's voicing, people.

If you agree with her but don't like the way she's saying it, you better go out there and find some better ways to say the things she's saying because otherwise this conversation is going to get buried by people who wanted smother it and "allies" who don't want to defend it.

The reason misinformation spreads and is so popular among the right is because they go out and say horrible things, then back it up "Hey, this is the 'truth', sorry if it offends!" and they're able to get away with it because so many on the left are afraid of confronting and airing difficult truths in the name of decorum. So guess what, people are going to sit there and go, "well, I guess they said that, so that's the truth!"
 

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
How does security for congress work? Do they have a detail provided via the government or do they all hire contractors/third parties of their choosing?

She must need an insane amount of security at this point...
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
Well here is the problem. Right now, White America for almost 200+ years, has taken advantage of a system that is catered towards them. That won't be true in the future as the minorities will soon be the majority and have no choice but to listen to their outcries (electing ilhan is one example). At some point, America has to recognize the minorities that suffered for years from the oppressive majority white america system that is currently in place. Minorities are now starting to use their pen/pencil and voting in key people who also support their ideas and frustration.

Problem is that this system that has been in place for so long, which now is being questioned and ridiculed by key, young minorities who are starting to get into position of power. And as you can see, this current system that was put in by white america, is frightened of this new change("make america great again" slogan was not a mistake comment by Trump. This was a purposely a callout for keeping the current system intact). Especially old money republicans (billionaires like Murdock), who are fighting tooth and nail from stopping this uprising of change from happening that they are making a profit from.

That's why I believe that either America has to do an overhaul of the system that has kept minorities in check in order for the Country, for a better future and welcome them (us) with open arms with equality. Change is coming whether those who prefer the old system like it or not. And that's why those who support the old system will fight back tooth and nail(see thread), even to the point of basically asking for bloodshed to silence anyone who is not apart of the current system.

Nothing will happen until 'moderates' stop siding with those that uphold the status quo and that isn't happening any time soon as you can see from every Ilhan Omar thread.

If minorities rise up all they will do is sit there going "Well I don't agree with oppression and I understand their concerns but y'know, protesting or rioting isn't the best way to go about it. The optics aren't good you see, won't you think of the next election?"
 

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
Is THAT what you took from this statement? Holy shit! Some of you guys are just RIGID in your thinking. I don't even necessarily agree, but come on. Ms. Omar didn't say anything wrong, but yes, she SHOULD have chosen her words more carefully here. As much as we rail on language. She's in politics. Anything she says WILL be used against her. It is what it is.
Is THAT what you took from this statement? Holy shit! Some of you guys are just RIGID in your thinking that Omar deserves to be victim-blamed within the context of the US being very Islamophobic and with the murder attemps against Omar.

Some of you guys are so Rigid, you don't even try fully comprehending what she actually says. Some of you guys are rigid into thinking that the US, inlcuding the democrat side doesn't have problems in racism and islamophobia.
 

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
I'm not echoing Fox News talking points, at least not on purpose. I'm talking about how I would feel if someone said that to me. I wouldn't be outraged or anything, it would just feel cold.
Well I hope you understand the things that Muslims in the US have to go through, the coldness, the racism, the islamophobia.
I hope you understand where Omar's coming from and what she's feeling.
 

Quixzlizx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,591
This is coming from bigotry. You are essentially saying she is in a position to use special words to satisfy you on how she describes 9/11 due to ..... what exactly ?
Go on..how much does she bear responsibility for being really specific in words to satisfy your bigotry
Does she have a special responsibility to chose her words on 9/11?
Yeah, because Republicans wouldn't have spun HRC, Pelosi, or Biden using the phrase "some people did something" about 9/11.

Is this an example of that "performative wokeness" I've heard so much about?
 

uncelestial

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,060
San Francisco, CA, USA
I'm 100% on her side, which is why I feel like I have to speak honestly: Rep. Ilhan made a slightly poor choice of words, and now that's being leveraged against her in a racist hate campaign.
Acknowledging that the choice of words was slightly poor isn't coming from hate or bigotry, it's coming from a belief that it's wrong to ignore mistakes made by friends because we're on the same side. That's what the other side does.
She didn't. At some point you guys are going to have to acknowledge that it doesn't matter what words Omar uses, she is going to be slandered by racist, sexist, and Islamophobic attacks from the right.

It's victim blaming to say she could have prevented this.
 

RionaaM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,852
If you only belive in nonsense soundbites that ignore broader context sure. But she's the one who has to deal with the discrimination of being a muslim when some people who belives the same religion as her committed an act and she is now fearing for her life because of ignorants who want to fear monger about her.

She doesnt owe anyone a damn thing when what she said is exactly correct. Stop tone policing her and echoing fox news talking points

On the other hand, she could have said it better. She could have said "terrorists from saudi arabia, whom the trump administration is protecting right now and numerous administrations in the past have done the bidding of".

Omar all about saying the truth, so give it maximum impact, but she was speaking off the cuff, so it wasnt about making a statement.
I'm willing to bet good money that If she had said what you suggested, republicans would have only quoted the following: "terrorists [...]whom [...] numerous administrations in the past have done the bidding of", but mysteriously forgetting the bracketed ellipsis.

They aren't complaining about her words, they don't give a damn about that. They are attacking her, only this time the tool they chose was attacking her words. What you need to understand is that she's going to be attacked no matter what, because she is a black muslim woman who dares to speak up against the harmful things republicans (and many moderates and democrats too) support and do.
 

JealousKenny

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
1,231
"She could've worded it better."

Or, maybe - just a thought - she shouldn't have to worry about making everything she says somehow 100% impervious to faux right-wing outrage and quote mining?

They're blatantly trying to get her killed. They'll twist and take anything she says out of context.

That's why harping about her choice of words is at best naive, and at worst unashamed islamaphobia. It's not relevant to the conversation, because right wing death squads will use anything to justify their actions.

Thats 99% of the job of being a successful politician. If you cant navigate that and anticipate how the opposition will twist your moves and statements for their own gain then politics isnt the right field for you. The job isnt just about writing and supporting good legislation, never has been.