Glad I'm not the only one lol. I'm guessing I'm about 3/4 of the way through Act 3 and I've maybe succeeded at 3 so far up to this point.
Glad I'm not the only one lol. I'm guessing I'm about 3/4 of the way through Act 3 and I've maybe succeeded at 3 so far up to this point.
Got to Act III, mostly good stuff. I'm really impressed by the art direction of the game at this point. Some of the close ups with multiple characters look amazing.
Going into this game I was expecting the story to branch a lot more, similar to Fallout/Pillars questlines or Alpha Protocol, but at this point it feels more like a visual novel with a narrative set in stone with some mild choices that don't have much impact overall. Which is fine, just different than what I expected from the initial reveal + Josh Sawyer/Obsidian. Doesn't feel like the game will have much replay value tbh.
Additionally, in order to make the multiple suspect thing work each act, none of the suspects can really feel 100% because otherwise that doesn't work and there's only one canon suspect and the others are red herrings. But for me personally, that makes the suspect investigations and choosing feel...unrewarding? Because in the end no one every feels like they actually did it and I always feel like I'm condemning an innocent person based on some evidence but there's enough counter-evidence that it's likely not them. So with Act II I just picked which character I disliked the most regardless of the facts /shrug
Going into this game I was expecting the story to branch a lot more, similar to Fallout/Pillars questlines or Alpha Protocol, but at this point it feels more like a visual novel with a narrative set in stone with some mild choices that don't have much impact overall. Which is fine, just different than what I expected from the initial reveal + Josh Sawyer/Obsidian. Doesn't feel like the game will have much replay value tbh.
Additionally, in order to make the multiple suspect thing work each act, none of the suspects can really feel 100% because otherwise that doesn't work and there's only one canon suspect and the others are red herrings. But for me personally, that makes the suspect investigations and choosing feel...unrewarding? Because in the end no one every feels like they actually did it and I always feel like I'm condemning an innocent person based on some evidence but there's enough counter-evidence that it's likely not them. So with Act II I just picked which character I disliked the most regardless of the facts /shrug
Weird that this didn't seem to come up in the search! Glad I saw it linked at the end of the Review thread. Started this last night finally and wow, I'm blown away. About 2.5 hours in.. would have kept playing but it was after 1 already. All I've been thinking about today at work is I hope the day finishes so I can play some more. What a unique experience.. absolutely loving the presentation.
I'll be visiting my folks for a week in a few days. Anyone played this via the Cloud with touch controls? I feel like it would be playable easily on the iPad -- I see the opening post says touch controls work (yay).
I'll be visiting my folks for a week in a few days. Anyone played this via the Cloud with touch controls? I feel like it would be playable easily on the iPad -- I see the opening post says touch controls work (yay).
I was a little surprised I failed the dialogue check vs the Baron. I had pretty much been on his side other than at the dinner.. oh well. I'm sure someone will eventually like me enough, haha. Martin (sp?) the thief told me to eat shit, otherwise I haven't encountered any other "failures" yet.
it's perfect on xcloud. You can adjust the text size/easy read fonts too. But on an iPad those are probably less of an issue
Cheers! I actually used the easy to read font even on my Xbox just cause I didn't want to struggle with it at all given the game's length. I do like the concept of different script for different kinds of people though. If I don't beat it before I leave, nice to know it should work well via the cloud.
About half of my playtime was on iPad or iPhone, it's perfectly suited to cloud gaming with touch controls!
I set text size to max and also increased the size of the heads by 1. The "simple" touch control scheme worked also worked very well. Reduces the clutter on screen.
Protip: Make sure you give your Xbox ample time to upload your save file to the cloud before you switch to cloud gaming. The save file of Pentiment is really huge for some reason and I've ran into the issue multiple times that my save file couldn't be synched across my mobile devices and console because I turned off the Xbox right after closing the game.
Thanks for the heads up! Good to have some suggestions on text/head size/etc. from someone who has used it so extensively. The save game thing is a great tip. I'll definitely keep it in mind before I try playing on the cloud.
Talked to someone somewhere else about this and I really took the dialog choices seriously, never gave purposefully goofy answers or anything, and by Act 3 I think I had passed like...two!? It completely locked me out of Martin questline conclusion because I didn't check the other people near the house first. Why the game didn't let me answer like "ahhh forget about it, maybe later!" once I realized what was happening is baffling. You're locked into the conversation and watching the investigation shut down in front of you, like you said. Kind of one of the bigger things that's sticking with me which is lame.
Just finished Act I tonight. I think the person I accused may have been innocent but it's hard to say. Very curious to see how it develops..just learned about the fate of Claus but decided I better turn it off until next time. What a truly fantastic game. Absolutely compelling.
Act 3
How does a character you never actually meet in game mean so much to the player? A masterclass in storytelling.
Early on in Act 3 I'm about 99.9% sure who the mastermind culprit is. I wouldn't say the writing is predictable but rather when you just pair out who was alive in each time period and remove the suspects each arc...it doesn't leave a whole lot of people left! :P
Looking forward to seeing how it's explained but feels extremely obvious at this point.
Unless the game takes a swerve and becomes Pillars of Eternity with supernatural gods rampaging around. Then I'll be wrong. And while that seems like it'd be fun to have Percha and Mars and all the gods show up and be actual characters in the plot, I don't think it's that sort of game lol
Looking forward to seeing how it's explained but feels extremely obvious at this point.
Unless the game takes a swerve and becomes Pillars of Eternity with supernatural gods rampaging around. Then I'll be wrong. And while that seems like it'd be fun to have Percha and Mars and all the gods show up and be actual characters in the plot, I don't think it's that sort of game lol
So yeah, when talking about how the skill checks are too harsh in this game, a good example I just did was Act III
I feel like you basically need to play with a guide to if you want to pass some of this stuff so you can hit every requirement perfectly before the dialogues are forced to move forward and you missed some branch you needed.
If I do a second play of this after I beat it, I will definitely use a guide and follow line by line to pass these things.
You only meet this character when you go in the covenant, I went to every screen and exhausted every dialogue choice with her and never disagreed with her (hence no negatives in that skill check) and...still wasn't enough? Wtf.
I feel like you basically need to play with a guide to if you want to pass some of this stuff so you can hit every requirement perfectly before the dialogues are forced to move forward and you missed some branch you needed.
If I do a second play of this after I beat it, I will definitely use a guide and follow line by line to pass these things.
It's also disappointing to find out that if I don't have enough points for the skill check, I could just... pick the opposite option, fail that skill check, and get the result I wanted anyway.So yeah, when talking about how the skill checks are too harsh in this game, a good example I just did was Act III
You only meet this character when you go in the covenant, I went to every screen and exhausted every dialogue choice with her and never disagreed with her (hence no negatives in that skill check) and...still wasn't enough? Wtf.
I just finished this. Beautiful game in every single way. Art, writing, characters, story. A real 10/10 for me and I pray (ehehe) that we get more games like this.
I don't have children yet and I still teared up. Just broke my heart for Andreas.
i'm nearing the end of act 2 and goddamn this game is incredible. i can't believe i was skeptical at it's reveal.
it's also absolutely incredible looking at some moments and the animation is REALLY good.
it's also absolutely incredible looking at some moments and the animation is REALLY good.
Ok, finished up the game. Final thoughts:
Pros:
+Amazing art! This grew on me and by the end the close ups with families were just totally amazing. The insane amount of book borders were awesome.
+Tons of details. All the polish that went into drawing and animating little things like making wreaths and stuff adds a time.
+Great usage of passage of time
+Colorful cast of characters that you get to know and interact with, game is more a town/family line simulator with branches to affect the families than anything
+Neat fonts! Scribbling sound and font effects are cool.
Cons:
-Skill checks are too strict. Not enough opportunities to interact with some characters and sometimes vague as to whether a response will help or hurt. Pretty much nonsense. Might as well have excised this system and just left the dialogue choices in.
-Not knowing if there is missable stuff out there so it's like "it's time for bed" but the game lets you go outside and run across the entire game map just in case there's some secret missable but then there isn't and boy that was a waste of time. If there's nothing to do the game should just be a cutscene until the next playable bit.
-The "routine" does get a bit repetitive by Act III of basically going through every screen again and talking to every person to activate any new dialogues/events and hold off on the ones that advance the time until you've talked to everyone else.
-Given all the time spent running back and forth a fast dash button would've been nice.
-Single save system is stupid given the length and that the game isn't really very replayable. Who cares if people would save scum choices in a single player game. Allow lots of saves so you can experiment around if you want.
-Would also be helpful for when the game doesn't warn you that talking to this person will advance to the next time sequence and you have just missed every other optional conversation and the game just overwrote your save, whoops.
Neutral:
+Music is great, but not much of it
+Main story is ok. It's good, not great, but serves more as a narrative mechanism for the town history and characters and family lines to shine.
+Act III is weird how extremely linear it is. There is almost no player choice and it's the longest Act. It just becomes a visual novel at that point. There isn't a single time choice of deciding between multiple things to do and only having time for one of them. Pretty sure the only player choices in that whole act are
Although it's been said to me that despite Act III being the lengthiest act, that it's actually
Overall, I think it was a very neat experience. Could've been a bit better but boy is it gorgeous and probably the best slice of life medieval town simulator over a period of time I've ever played. Had some good feels at spots. Some fun dialogue choices. I'm not sure where I'd even clarify the genre as. It doesn't really have puzzles like an adventure game, it's not much of an rpg and it's more interactive than your average visual novel. Plus it's sort of a town sim. Just a mashup of all those. I'd give it a strong 8/10. Would love to see a sequel taking place in a different era and part of the world. One of the hard parts for me was figuring out what kind of game it was, even when playing it. It took about 4 hours for the gameplay concept of it to click in. Would be more exciting for a new game in a similar style since I'd know what I was getting into from the start.
I loved
And for the ending
Also, I don't even want to think about the amount of work researching this game to get everything authentically correct must have taken. That is not a job I would have wanted. Hopefully Sawyer enjoyed it lol
Pros:
+Amazing art! This grew on me and by the end the close ups with families were just totally amazing. The insane amount of book borders were awesome.
+Tons of details. All the polish that went into drawing and animating little things like making wreaths and stuff adds a time.
+Great usage of passage of time
+Colorful cast of characters that you get to know and interact with, game is more a town/family line simulator with branches to affect the families than anything
+Neat fonts! Scribbling sound and font effects are cool.
Cons:
-Skill checks are too strict. Not enough opportunities to interact with some characters and sometimes vague as to whether a response will help or hurt. Pretty much nonsense. Might as well have excised this system and just left the dialogue choices in.
-Not knowing if there is missable stuff out there so it's like "it's time for bed" but the game lets you go outside and run across the entire game map just in case there's some secret missable but then there isn't and boy that was a waste of time. If there's nothing to do the game should just be a cutscene until the next playable bit.
-The "routine" does get a bit repetitive by Act III of basically going through every screen again and talking to every person to activate any new dialogues/events and hold off on the ones that advance the time until you've talked to everyone else.
-Given all the time spent running back and forth a fast dash button would've been nice.
-Single save system is stupid given the length and that the game isn't really very replayable. Who cares if people would save scum choices in a single player game. Allow lots of saves so you can experiment around if you want.
-Would also be helpful for when the game doesn't warn you that talking to this person will advance to the next time sequence and you have just missed every other optional conversation and the game just overwrote your save, whoops.
Neutral:
+Music is great, but not much of it
+Main story is ok. It's good, not great, but serves more as a narrative mechanism for the town history and characters and family lines to shine.
+Act III is weird how extremely linear it is. There is almost no player choice and it's the longest Act. It just becomes a visual novel at that point. There isn't a single time choice of deciding between multiple things to do and only having time for one of them. Pretty sure the only player choices in that whole act are
Each mural piece choice, the final ending choice, and husbando choice
Although it's been said to me that despite Act III being the lengthiest act, that it's actually
Not meant to be an act, but be a playable ending to see the outcome of the town and families after the choices you've made in Acts 1 and Acts 2. That works for me.
Overall, I think it was a very neat experience. Could've been a bit better but boy is it gorgeous and probably the best slice of life medieval town simulator over a period of time I've ever played. Had some good feels at spots. Some fun dialogue choices. I'm not sure where I'd even clarify the genre as. It doesn't really have puzzles like an adventure game, it's not much of an rpg and it's more interactive than your average visual novel. Plus it's sort of a town sim. Just a mashup of all those. I'd give it a strong 8/10. Would love to see a sequel taking place in a different era and part of the world. One of the hard parts for me was figuring out what kind of game it was, even when playing it. It took about 4 hours for the gameplay concept of it to click in. Would be more exciting for a new game in a similar style since I'd know what I was getting into from the start.
I loved
The brawl at the Golden Hand.
And coming back to the ruins of the abbey in Act 3 with that music playing after having the memories of Act I and II was really moving.
And coming back to the ruins of the abbey in Act 3 with that music playing after having the memories of Act I and II was really moving.
And for the ending
Yeah, guessed it was Father Thomas with about 99.9% certainty once Act 3 started and I saw who was still alive in the town. You look at the handful of people alive in each act who were adults, who were not suspects (since they could have died), and there's only a few people left. Plus in order to do those notes someone would have to know the town people and their secrets really well and who would know that better than the person that they confess to. Plus Father Thomas was that kind of inconspicuous character there in every act but not being a major character, so it seemed pretty obvious it was him and he didn't want some old history thing coming to light.
Still was fine and I wouldn't call it super predictable. Maybe could've had a few more red herring characters to make it a bit less obvious haha.
I didn't see Andreas coming back as Ezio or Amalie writing the notes though.
Still was fine and I wouldn't call it super predictable. Maybe could've had a few more red herring characters to make it a bit less obvious haha.
I didn't see Andreas coming back as Ezio or Amalie writing the notes though.
Also, I don't even want to think about the amount of work researching this game to get everything authentically correct must have taken. That is not a job I would have wanted. Hopefully Sawyer enjoyed it lol
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Thanks.
Also I think another reason why this game took hours to click with me is that until you get your bearings on the setting (location and town/abbey characters) it's a bit overwhelming and daily life Abbey simulator can seem a bit dull initially.
I may replay just Act I to re-experience it now knowing the cast of characters and the background of the whole thing.
Re: possible ways you can branch the story. Does anyone know if
You accuse not-Martin in Act II's finale, if the revolt still ends up at the Mill and Ulricht still gets shot and Leonhardt still gets killed?
The miller would have no reason to hide not-Martin so I'm wondering how the story would get there, because that feels like a major event that would likely be unchangeable.
The miller would have no reason to hide not-Martin so I'm wondering how the story would get there, because that feels like a major event that would likely be unchangeable.
I think I'm pretty close to the game. I guess it's OK to post this since someone posted a screencap without spoiling it, I'm at that scene.
I'm kind of mixed on it. It's slow to get going. Starting from the first murder to the end of Act 2 the game is outstanding. Then the pace goes back to absolutely glacial again for Act 3. As others have pointed out, this section just feels like a visual novel. I'm guessing there's probably a few different endings based on how you
, but the act itself is just going through the motions.
Couple questions/comments about the end of the game (feel free to spoil everything, I won't read responses until I see the credits):
I'm kind of mixed on it. It's slow to get going. Starting from the first murder to the end of Act 2 the game is outstanding. Then the pace goes back to absolutely glacial again for Act 3. As others have pointed out, this section just feels like a visual novel. I'm guessing there's probably a few different endings based on how you
paint the mural
Couple questions/comments about the end of the game (feel free to spoil everything, I won't read responses until I see the credits):
Thomas has to be the stringpuller, right? I feel like he's the only survivor who's been there from the beginning who could plausibly write in that script. He's part of the abbey, but lives among the people, so it makes sense that he would want to maintain the status quo and his position in the town would make it easy to keep tabs on people. I don't understand why he would need to sneak around the ruins to get into the abbey... maybe he has an accomplice? Maybe I'm way off base here, but I don't see who else it could be, unless it's someone who hasn't been introduced yet, which would be lame. Honestly at this point it'd be kind of lame if it's Thomas too, it feels too obvious.
I have two questions about the investigations. Do you ever learn whether you accused the right people? I accused Ferenc in Act 1. I'm pretty sure he didn't do it, but I didn't have enough evidence on anyone else. I accused Guy in Act 2 and I'm honestly not sure if he did it or not. He certainly had motive... but I don't know, I just wasn't 100% convinced he was the actual culprit.
And second, do things change considerably if you replay and accuse the right people? Assuming these choices were wrong?
I have two questions about the investigations. Do you ever learn whether you accused the right people? I accused Ferenc in Act 1. I'm pretty sure he didn't do it, but I didn't have enough evidence on anyone else. I accused Guy in Act 2 and I'm honestly not sure if he did it or not. He certainly had motive... but I don't know, I just wasn't 100% convinced he was the actual culprit.
And second, do things change considerably if you replay and accuse the right people? Assuming these choices were wrong?
I dont think it's possible to find
the real culprits [\spoiler]. I think that's the main point of the game tbh.
Yeah, and I don't think that's a spoiler? At least I read going in that
Though personally I find the game slightly less satisfying because of it. It feels like every suspect didn't do it and you're just framing whoever you dislike the most lol
Which is fine, since there's some real bastards in here and town is better off without them!
For the murders, there is no true culprit and it's whoever you want.
Though personally I find the game slightly less satisfying because of it. It feels like every suspect didn't do it and you're just framing whoever you dislike the most lol
Which is fine, since there's some real bastards in here and town is better off without them!
Yeah, I started a replay of the game and found that even though I like the game at this point and enjoy all the characters and setting...I still found the opening 1-2 hours to be hard to get through.
My personal subjective take is that Pentiment has a legit bad opening section. The game from the first murder onwards becomes more open in that you can walk around the map and talk to people and there's a few options of what to do with your time. For the first hour or two most of the map is blocked off and you really can't do anything besides watch cutscene after cutscene after cutscene while having dialogue choices.
I don't mind the plot/murder not kicking in until 2 hours in, but if I was a beta tester I would have straight out said the opening is bad and should have more gameplay freedom to explore around town and the abbey and get to know people.
Good point. If I didn't know that going in I probably wouldn't have guessed it.
But I also probably would've felt like I didn't do something right because I didn't get enough proof to figure out who actually did it and then I'd google who the correct culprit was and then I'd find out it's vague and could be any of them and its whoever you think did it.
But I also probably would've felt like I didn't do something right because I didn't get enough proof to figure out who actually did it and then I'd google who the correct culprit was and then I'd find out it's vague and could be any of them and its whoever you think did it.
I didn't know until I finished the game and felt it was the better for it yet, yeah. One of the major themes of the game's is regret and I think having all choices ultimately being incorrect (or more accurately incomplete) definitely plays into it.
The downside of this is that when you look at it on retrospective level, it actually feels a bit manipulative and if this is information you know going in, it actually creates quite a nihilistic outlook in the player.
The downside of this is that when you look at it on retrospective level, it actually feels a bit manipulative and if this is information you know going in, it actually creates quite a nihilistic outlook in the player.
Not really. I went in sight unseen and I wasn't convinced that any of the people you can accuse were really guilty. And the notes make it clear early on that there's stuff going on that you're not able to uncover.
Yeah, it definitely feels manipulative to me. Literally just finished like five minutes ago so I'm not totally sure how I feel about it all, but it's definitely frustrating to me that
you're just incapable of discovering what's actually going on, even if you have very strong suspicions. Like I wrote above, Thomas seemed like a prime suspect early on. He's likely educated, he can keep tabs on the townspeople since he works at the church plus people confess to him. I was wrong him writing the notes, but close enough. But you're just incapable of having the playable characters realizing that until they're supposed to.
It also feels lame that some parts of the map are artificially locked off at times. Like you can only explore the ruins in the forest when the game allows you to.
It also feels lame that some parts of the map are artificially locked off at times. Like you can only explore the ruins in the forest when the game allows you to.
I don't know, I love the game and story overall but some parts definitely feel contrived, and I definitely disagree that it's only noticeable if you know certain plot points before beginning.
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It's very clear that there's something else going on and someone is pulling the strings. This is what eats at Andreas. The point is that as far as I'm aware, narratively, there isn't a canonical murderer for the each act. Not that it really matters within the story. It just that as a player, there's a difference between trying to finding out who was manipulated into murder and offing whoever you like least because you might as well.
I don't disagree with this. I just disagree with your "This only breaks down if you know it going in" post.
Even going in 100% blind it felt obvious that events were contrived to cast doubt that any given potential culprit was definitely guilty.
So yeah, when talking about how the skill checks are too harsh in this game, a good example I just did was Act III
You only meet this character when you go in the covenant, I went to every screen and exhausted every dialogue choice with her and never disagreed with her (hence no negatives in that skill check) and...still wasn't enough? Wtf.
I feel like you basically need to play with a guide to if you want to pass some of this stuff so you can hit every requirement perfectly before the dialogues are forced to move forward and you missed some branch you needed.
If I do a second play of this after I beat it, I will definitely use a guide and follow line by line to pass these things.
IMO the game shouldn't present these screens. I assume to pass this check you have to have chosen a specific background, there was multiple times when a background choice would give me three up arrows for a check. So basically this should also say "minus minus minus: did not take the Theologist background" or something like that. Or maybe you just missed a dialogue tree while talking to this character that didn't have anything to do with talking to someone else, or investigating a specific screen.
Anyway, I feel like nearly all the skill checks would be fine if you knew exactly what effected them. But you don't, so it's frustrating.
I think some of that depends on the background you chose. Picking haggle in Act 3 for instance gives you three points towards certain checks.
You can't accuse them at any point, can you?
Even if you've already beaten the game and know it's Thomas from the beginning, there's never any evidence.
Finished it yesterday. Great game, great experience. I loved it even though there's some odd choices here and there.
Game has been pretty great so far, although I always feel I don't know if I should go where I should be or explore everything (over and over again) to see if there is something new I might miss.
Also, it's funny how the Romans play the role of "past civilization that has influence to this day" in the game, which seems so common in fantasy settings. It's like, they are feeling that role because of its common in fantasy, rather than because of history itself, as if this game is another fantasy world. I hope I'm making sense here.
Also, it's funny how the Romans play the role of "past civilization that has influence to this day" in the game, which seems so common in fantasy settings. It's like, they are feeling that role because of its common in fantasy, rather than because of history itself, as if this game is another fantasy world. I hope I'm making sense here.
So I feel kind of crass asking this, but is there a commonly agreed-on point at which the game "gets good?"
I feel like I've appreciated what I have played (~2 hours, just left the abbey after my first day at work, did the little 3 book sidequest), but I'm not really into it. I've enjoyed certain scenes for their historical detail, such as walking with the Baron, but I don't really feel like there are any stakes or anything drawing me in yet. Should I expect more of this, or do things pick up a little in urgency?
I feel like I've appreciated what I have played (~2 hours, just left the abbey after my first day at work, did the little 3 book sidequest), but I'm not really into it. I've enjoyed certain scenes for their historical detail, such as walking with the Baron, but I don't really feel like there are any stakes or anything drawing me in yet. Should I expect more of this, or do things pick up a little in urgency?
Need a small help from someone who finished the game
I played this game for an hour but nothing major happened. A friend told me to restart this game and choose occultist as one of my backgrounds. Should I do that and is it a spoiler?
I played this game for an hour but nothing major happened. A friend told me to restart this game and choose occultist as one of my backgrounds. Should I do that and is it a spoiler?
Things pick up in urgency, you straight up (small structural spoiler) get a time limit
That said, a lot of the appeal is always the quieter moments and just conversations. The game has little in the way of dramatic action or anything outside of a handful of spots. But if you can appreciate those and just need a bit more of an impetus to pull you along it'll probably click. Play until the first big plot point happens and a bit after and then see how you feel. If it's still not doing anything for you I suspect it's just not for you.
Played this a lot the past few days. 14.4 hrs.
It's a really well done story. The structure was great in that it kept adding layers as you played so once you get to Act 3 you are thinking about what you had learned in the past and understanding a little bit more about the town and this period of time. And it has a well done theme woven throughout of reconciling with the past. It felt very cohesive though I know nothing about the time period, but it felt real.
For a bit I was wondering if the story was going to become more metaphorical because of the various segments and feelings it was bringing forward. The ending was very satisfying.
It's a really well done story. The structure was great in that it kept adding layers as you played so once you get to Act 3 you are thinking about what you had learned in the past and understanding a little bit more about the town and this period of time. And it has a well done theme woven throughout of reconciling with the past. It felt very cohesive though I know nothing about the time period, but it felt real.
For a bit I was wondering if the story was going to become more metaphorical because of the various segments and feelings it was bringing forward. The ending was very satisfying.
Woo finished the game. I had spent maybe 2 long sessions on Act 3. I really enjoyed it, but it dragged because I didn't know how long it would be or what I was in for. But I did actually really like the epilogue feel to it and choosing which mural to put up (especially the first time you get the choice) may have been one of the longest thoughts I've had on a choice in this game haha. Not going to get into broad thoughts here, except that I loved the game and boy was that ending something.
Some plot thoughts: So... I actually didn't see it being Father Thomas. And the Sister Amelie reveal floored me too. It makes perfect sense and seeing other people in the thread guess it makes total sense. But that really got me. It's satisfying to see it all come together and there being a conclusion. I actually redid the whole bath section because I accidentally chose to hide the truth from the villagers. But.. worth it lol. That labyrinth sequence T_T. All of the court of Mahler's mind segments really were some of the highlights. And that one cut deep.
But... one plot hole/question that I still don't get: Who is the ghost? I know that some instances of the ghost are just Andreas. But even Andreas says at the end that he's traveled through the aqueducts and caught glimpses of this figures squeezing into places that he couldn't get to. That's definitely not Father Thomas. I don't THINK that's Sister Amelie? She just gets into that place by climbing through her grave, right? Or is she actually convinced that it's just her spirit and she's actually traveling through the whole aqueduct system/labyrinth in a trance? Seems unlikely that she'd be traveling with such purpose between places and avoided detection for so many years? Even then, she's not.. small. Still a full grown adult and an older one at that. Iono that seems to make no sense.
Is she the ghost? Is there a ghost? Is Caspar still alive and tiny? Is it just Artemis and Apollo? WAS IT ULRIKE?!?! MY QUESTIONS ARE NOT ANSWERED lol
As for the other point about choosing the opposite choice in persuasion checks, I think that only works because on a second playthrough, you know where the choices are. On my first playthrough, that certainly didn't and likely wouldn't occur to me.
Iono. Even typing it out now, I'm not sure. It's crazy how this fairly small running aspect of the game with just a series of disconnected choices can result in such diversity of results - and that they all feel meaningful. Hm.
Some plot thoughts: So... I actually didn't see it being Father Thomas. And the Sister Amelie reveal floored me too. It makes perfect sense and seeing other people in the thread guess it makes total sense. But that really got me. It's satisfying to see it all come together and there being a conclusion. I actually redid the whole bath section because I accidentally chose to hide the truth from the villagers. But.. worth it lol. That labyrinth sequence T_T. All of the court of Mahler's mind segments really were some of the highlights. And that one cut deep.
But... one plot hole/question that I still don't get: Who is the ghost? I know that some instances of the ghost are just Andreas. But even Andreas says at the end that he's traveled through the aqueducts and caught glimpses of this figures squeezing into places that he couldn't get to. That's definitely not Father Thomas. I don't THINK that's Sister Amelie? She just gets into that place by climbing through her grave, right? Or is she actually convinced that it's just her spirit and she's actually traveling through the whole aqueduct system/labyrinth in a trance? Seems unlikely that she'd be traveling with such purpose between places and avoided detection for so many years? Even then, she's not.. small. Still a full grown adult and an older one at that. Iono that seems to make no sense.
Is she the ghost? Is there a ghost? Is Caspar still alive and tiny? Is it just Artemis and Apollo? WAS IT ULRIKE?!?! MY QUESTIONS ARE NOT ANSWERED lol
Oo.. damn. I didn't even think about this. Could they have met before or in a different place? I don't think Amelie ever distributed the notes, right? Wasn't it just Father Thomas himself? Or am I wrong?
As for the other point about choosing the opposite choice in persuasion checks, I think that only works because on a second playthrough, you know where the choices are. On my first playthrough, that certainly didn't and likely wouldn't occur to me.
I saw this way back when (accidentally spoiled myself), but yea you guys got it. Ursula is alive even if she follows the old ways if you warn her to not be so free. Felt a little bad about it at the time, but this conversation reminded me that she can die, so I'm happy I made that choice haha. Vacslav only lives (and gets married - which I didn't know was possible!) if you don't choose Ferenc at the beginning (which I did) - but possibly uncover enough about him to know about the occult stuff?? - and you convince Ursula to embrace the old ways.
Iono. Even typing it out now, I'm not sure. It's crazy how this fairly small running aspect of the game with just a series of disconnected choices can result in such diversity of results - and that they all feel meaningful. Hm.
T_T
I did this, but it's only possible with a specific background, I think. The thing is that I think the point is to show you that it's not possible to do everything. But yes, if you're going back through, it probably does require a guide. Seems like a lot of replaying though haha. This game could maybe do with an As Dusk Falls type timeline where you can jump back into key moments whenever you want. BUT, I really do appreciate having to live with your choices. I did some light save scumming with quitting and restarting from checkpoint and it does rob the moments a bit from their impact. I only used it when I accidentally selected something after a bit, which made it feel better.So yeah, when talking about how the skill checks are too harsh in this game, a good example I just did was Act III
You only meet this character when you go in the covenant, I went to every screen and exhausted every dialogue choice with her and never disagreed with her (hence no negatives in that skill check) and...still wasn't enough? Wtf.
I feel like you basically need to play with a guide to if you want to pass some of this stuff so you can hit every requirement perfectly before the dialogues are forced to move forward and you missed some branch you needed.
If I do a second play of this after I beat it, I will definitely use a guide and follow line by line to pass these things.
No. And if you think about it, there's really no opportunity to know it was him, either. I think people could start to put things together in Act 3, combined with their knowledge from the first 2 acts. But these are very meta reasons. Magda wouldn't know what Andreas knew. The father never gave any indication it was him.. which makes sense. He was too clever and allowed it to turn him into a serial killer
Oo.. damn. I didn't even think about this. Could they have met before or in a different place? I don't think Amelie ever distributed the notes, right? Wasn't it just Father Thomas himself? Or am I wrong?
It was Amelie distributing the notes. She's a full grown adult but one of the smaller people in town. You're right that she gets into the final area through her grave, but she also leaves to distribute the notes. She's the "ghost" you see in Act 1.
I agree it's borderline a plot hole. She never says anything to arouse suspicion that she's leaving or that she can write, she's naive enough to never question that she's actually doing stuff, not just spirit walking, she never gets spotted or injured...
It's hard to tell exactly how old she is, she's definitely not as old as the widow for example, but I agree it's stretches my suspension of disbelief to imagine her jumping the gap at the aqueduct.
It's worth mentioning that I'm not sure she left every single note. Thomas confesses to ransacking Claus' workshop, so presumably he left that note while he was there. But it is made clear that Amelie left some of the notes.
I honestly thought it was pretty obvious that Thomas was the string puller. Did you have any suspects? They need to be aligned with the church in the tax dispute, they need to be in a position to keep tabs on everyone, they need to be able to write. That eliminates nearly all the townspeople already. I had a few people I suspected leading into Act 3, but as soon as I saw that Thomas was one of the few church-related people still around I immediately thought "It's definitely him."
I didn't guess Amalie's involvement at all though. When she shows Andreas her grave and explains its purpose my reaction was basically "... what the hell?" Like is she delusional from not eating enough? Does she just fully buy into the religious stuff? That was a great twist, it makes so much sense that that was her portal to the aqueduct.
I agree it's borderline a plot hole. She never says anything to arouse suspicion that she's leaving or that she can write, she's naive enough to never question that she's actually doing stuff, not just spirit walking, she never gets spotted or injured...
It's hard to tell exactly how old she is, she's definitely not as old as the widow for example, but I agree it's stretches my suspension of disbelief to imagine her jumping the gap at the aqueduct.
It's worth mentioning that I'm not sure she left every single note. Thomas confesses to ransacking Claus' workshop, so presumably he left that note while he was there. But it is made clear that Amelie left some of the notes.
I honestly thought it was pretty obvious that Thomas was the string puller. Did you have any suspects? They need to be aligned with the church in the tax dispute, they need to be in a position to keep tabs on everyone, they need to be able to write. That eliminates nearly all the townspeople already. I had a few people I suspected leading into Act 3, but as soon as I saw that Thomas was one of the few church-related people still around I immediately thought "It's definitely him."
I didn't guess Amalie's involvement at all though. When she shows Andreas her grave and explains its purpose my reaction was basically "... what the hell?" Like is she delusional from not eating enough? Does she just fully buy into the religious stuff? That was a great twist, it makes so much sense that that was her portal to the aqueduct.
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