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Do you agree that Ps4 is a beast ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 870 69.7%
  • Don't read too much into the Ps4's sales

    Votes: 256 20.5%
  • What took you so long?

    Votes: 122 9.8%

  • Total voters
    1,248

daybreak

Member
Feb 28, 2018
2,415
Really amazing milestone and a great achievement by Sony. Goes to show how well their exclusive titles did at pulling sales, and how important a strong start out of the gates is.

Have they ever revealed any sales figures for the Pro model? I'm very curious to see how much of a bump a mid-generation refresh provided for overall sales.
 

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
That is fundamentally different as the innards were the same. The Pro is a different machine.

I once asked the question your posts are inferring of Mat P from NPD.

His reply was basically that the assumption is that the original console will either end up with another famliy member, or re-sold as pre-owned to another person and that the number of people who actually keep their original console is pretty slim.

So you can go argue with NPD on the way they count sales, or you can take this as a response to your concern that in some way this 100m isn't a 'real' 100m, which is basically what you're arguing.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,798
I think most of them are from Europe and MediaMarkt in particular, Germany, France etc.

Made a thread on GAF back in the day with lots of GIFs.

84ce86a89037163f2.gif

Holy crap, it's like a horde from Days Gone!
 

Jenea

Banned
Mar 14, 2018
1,568
I don't think any previous console has had a more feeble competitor than the Xbox One
This feeble competitor offers the cheapest console on the market, the most powerfull console, a lot of games for a very cheap price (gp), BC and very often 1$ deals (gold, pass, utimate, etc). It's 100% the merit of Sony's that they sell a ton of consoles instead of their competitor.
 

Pharaoh

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,677
Really, really impressive. And well deserved, PS4 is truly a great console and one of my favorites.
 

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
This feeble competitor offers the cheapest console on the market, the most powerfull console, a lot of games for a very cheap price (gp), BC and very often 1$ deals (gold, pass, utimate, etc). It's 100% the merit of Sony's that they sell a ton of consoles instead of their competitor.

Watch out, by speaking actual facts about the current state of the market, you may be accused of fanboyism and cop a ban of some kind.

Remember - 'momentum' is the key word here when thinking about Xbox. 'Making moves to set up next-gen' is another key phrase.
 

Cyborg

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,955
Congrats. Sony, you know what you need to do for next-gen. Power + Great Games = Everyone buys 3rd party games on your console.
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
I don't think any previous console has had a more feeble competitor than the Xbox One, but still, this is a hell of an achievement and 100% deserved.

i don't know man...the 32bit/64bit had some legendary stories. Sega miscalculated with the saturn about its internals and the 'sega saturn available now!' fiasco at E3 1995 in US and also an $100 more ex than the PS1. The N64 braindead decision to went ahead with cartridges regardless. And let's not forget why the PS1 was even release in the first place (thanks Nintendo!).

If you wanna talk about competitors that fumbled, the 32bit/64bit era had some stories to tell.
 

Basarili

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,434
Haarlem
PS2 ended up selling 150+ million right. In how much years did Playstation 2 end up selling the 50 extra million on top of the 100 million consoles?
I can't see PS4 catching up to 150 million as people move faster to newer stuff these days, but could be completely wrong when the PS5 comes out.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
PS2 ended up selling 150+ million right. In how much years did Playstation 2 end up selling the 50 extra million on top of the 100 million consoles?
I can't see PS4 catching up to 150 million as people move faster to newer stuff these days, but could be completely wrong when the PS5 comes out.
no it wont reach PS2. but to put things in prespective, in 2018 PS4 was more profitable than entire PS2 era.
 

tommy7154

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,370
Congrats. They released a good machine at a good price and have kept putting out quality exclusives all gen. Pretty simple recipe for success.
 

Deleted member 57990

User requested account closure
Banned
Jun 18, 2019
311
This feeble competitor offers the cheapest console on the market, the most powerfull console, a lot of games for a very cheap price (gp), BC and very often 1$ deals (gold, pass, utimate, etc). It's 100% the merit of Sony's that they sell a ton of consoles instead of their competitor.

Not sure why you edited out the second part of my post praising Sony, but the "cheapest console on the market" and "most powerful console" are two separate products, the former being underpowered to the point that it was pretty clapped-out even at launch, and the latter being the most expensive console on the market. The other things you mention are desperation moves to compensate for the fact that MS haven't released a single game this generation as successful as Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War, Spiderman, etc.

Sony have done spectacularly well, they forfeited every penny of profit they ever made on the PS1 and 2 to salvage the PS3 after its bungled launch and then carried that good will through to the launch of the PS4, while MS released a (yes) feeble, Kinect and (at announcement) online DRM-infested console that they arrogantly assumed everyone who owned a 360 would buy just because.

To a lot of people, especially outside the US, the Xbox One may as well not exist, so Sony effectively had no direct console competitor this generation at all. That Sony didn't get complacent and still invested heavily in AAA first party blockbusters as well as supporting VR is absolutely to their credit, and they're deservedly reaping the rewards for it.
 

Deleted member 57990

User requested account closure
Banned
Jun 18, 2019
311
i don't know man...the 32bit/64bit had some legendary stories. Sega miscalculated with the saturn about its internals and the 'sega saturn available now!' fiasco at E3 1995 in US and also an $100 more ex than the PS1. The N64 braindead decision to went ahead with cartridges regardless. And let's not forget why the PS1 was even release in the first place (thanks Nintendo!).

If you wanna talk about competitors that fumbled, the 32bit/64bit era had some stories to tell.

True, but I don't think the Saturn or N64 actively antagonised and alienated a large section of potential customers quite as successfully as MS did with the Xbox One. I never thought I'd see a more bungled console launch than the PS3, but, just one generation later, MS came along and not only made all the exact same mistakes, they added some new ones of their own. At some point you'd have thought Phil Harrison would have raised his hand and said "er, guys - this is starting to feel horribly familiar..."
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,579
PS2 ended up selling 150+ million right. In how much years did Playstation 2 end up selling the 50 extra million on top of the 100 million consoles?
I can't see PS4 catching up to 150 million as people move faster to newer stuff these days, but could be completely wrong when the PS5 comes out.
According to Wiki: approximately 5-6 years. People often forget that the PS2 still moved units after 360/PS3 release.
Many bought it as a cheap DVD-player /Singstar-machine. Yes, this won't be repeated.
 

Readler

Member
Oct 6, 2018
1,972
PS2 ended up selling 150+ million right. In how much years did Playstation 2 end up selling the 50 extra million on top of the 100 million consoles?
I can't see PS4 catching up to 150 million as people move faster to newer stuff these days, but could be completely wrong when the PS5 comes out.
The PS2 was just absurd. It was being sold for 99€ at some point which made it a much better deal than most DVD players at the time. Production of the PS2 afaik also only ceased during the PS4 era. Nothing can ever replicate that.
 

D.Lo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,348
Sydney
no it wont reach PS2. but to put things in prespective, in 2018 PS4 was more profitable than entire PS2 era.
Hard to say that clearly. PS2's profits were dragged down by R&D for the PSP and especially PS3 and buried in the immense losses of the first few years of the PS3. PS2 by itself surely made much more than the division filings show.
 

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,645
Hard to say that clearly. PS2's profits were dragged down by R&D for the PSP and especially PS3 and buried in the immense losses of the first few years of the PS3. PS2 by itself surely made much more than the division filings show.
The years of the transition from ps2 to ps3 was also where the world wide studios were build. I wouldn't read it like a simple sum game.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,082
According to Wiki: approximately 5-6 years. People often forget that the PS2 still moved units after 360/PS3 release.
Many bought it as a cheap DVD-player /Singstar-machine. Yes, this won't be repeated.

Why wouldnt it? A sub $100 ps4 that streams netflix/Hulu/amazon/PsVue/MLB/NFL/CBS/etc and plays dvds and blu rays and streams and plays games on top of that doesn't have value?
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,198
The years of the transition from ps2 to ps3 was also where the world wide studios were build. I wouldn't read it like a simple sum game.

Truth is that it don't really matter since that is only 1 year .
PS4 will be Sony most profitable console by a huge amount .

Why wouldnt it? A sub $100 ps4 that streams netflix/Hulu/amazon/PsVue/MLB/NFL/CBS/etc and plays dvds and blu rays and streams and plays games on top of that doesn't have value?

Don't think PS4 will ever reach that price to many parts that won't scale with cost .
Plus from the looks of things Sony going for margins more than user base.
 

kpaadet

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,741
To be fair Sony has always had it relatively easy with the sole exception of last generation which saw more consoles sold than any other thanks to all three home consoles seeing success (and that doesn't even factor in PSP/DS sales on top).
Lucky Sony should really praise their lucky star as they apparently only have to compete with two incompetent multi billion dollar conglomerates. In a way I guess you could say all market leaders are lucky that way.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
3,579
Why wouldnt it? A sub $100 ps4 that streams netflix/Hulu/amazon/PsVue/MLB/NFL/CBS/etc and plays dvds and blu rays and streams and plays games on top of that doesn't have value?
Hm, maybe...but to put the PS2's success into perspective: it sold as many units after gen 7 launch as Xbox One has done this current generation. For streaming you have other cheap solutions. But, if game-streaming eventually picks up (which I doubt) Sony could turn the PS4 into a cheap streaming-box that also plays games on the hardware.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,082
Hm, maybe...but to put the PS2's success into perspective: it sold as many units after gen 7 launch as Xbox One has done this current generation. For streaming you have other cheap solutions. But, if game-streaming eventually picks up (which I doubt) Sony could turn the PS4 into a cheap streaming-box that also plays games on the hardware.

To put it into perspective, the PS4 is vastly more profitable than the PS2 was. Sony made more money from the PS4 in a single year than it did from the lifetime sales of the PS2. Sony can sell that at nearly any price point they want and still be profitable- and they have the option to bundle in 3-6 months of Now or Vue for free to entice consumers to pick it up. You're not getting that with a chromecast or appletv.

Also consider that The PS2 was sold for 13 years before it hit 155 million. The PS4 has only been on sale for about 6. It's still at a $299 MSRP. If Sony wants the PS4 to sell 155 million+, it will.

There are other cheap solutions, but none that do anything close to what the PS4 does. none of the cheap streaming solutions play discs (Redbox is still very much a thing), none of those solutions play games on par with a PS4, and the PS4 can stream PS5 games if Sony wanted to bother doing it through PSNOW.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
17,921
The PS4 has more revenue streams than PS2 and they are much bigger -- PS+, PS Now, digital download, MTX from 3rd party games, hardware price stability, etc...

Of course PS4 is making way more money.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
The PS4 has more revenue streams than PS2 and they are much bigger -- PS+, PS Now, digital download, MTX from 3rd party games, etc...

Of course PS4 is making way more money.
I just hope with all these constant flow of money, Sony invest in ps5 hardware and take a good loss like 100$ on each unit and sell it for $499
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,082
To be fair Sony has always had it relatively easy with the sole exception of last generation which saw more consoles sold than any other thanks to all three home consoles seeing success (and that doesn't even factor in PSP/DS sales on top).

Relatively easy compared to who?

The SNES sold about 49 million units.
The Genesis/Megadrive sold about 30 million units.

Sony's first console (the PS1) sold more units than both combined, and outsold the previous best selling console of all time by 40 million units. The PS1 was the first console to sell 70, 80, 90, AND 100 million units. They drastically expanded the market almost overnight.

Sony also outsold-

Atari
Panasonic
SEGA (twice)
Nintendo (three times- four if you count the Switch, but I wouldn't yet)
Phillips
Microsoft (three consecutive times)

The only console that's ever outsold them in 25 years is the Nintendo Wii. And even that was only by about 14 million units. It's not "easy" to do that, Sony just makes it look that way.
 
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Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,082
Don't think PS4 will ever reach that price to many parts that won't scale with cost .
Plus from the looks of things Sony going for margins more than user base.

This isn't true. The PS3 couldn't cost reduce because NVIDIA wouldn't cooperate (they made the GPU) and the Cell was crazy expensive to manufacture. Neither of these things is true for the PS4, they can cost reduce that all day.

Unlike the PS1/2/3 the PS4's profits are coming from a crap ton of digital content and subscriptions. Margin on the hardware is nearly irrelevant because digital sales make them far more money in recurring revenue year over year.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,198
This isn't true. The PS3 couldn't cost reduce because NVIDIA wouldn't cooperate (they made the GPU) and the Cell was crazy expensive to manufacture. Neither of these things is true for the PS4, they can cost reduce that all day.

Unlike the PS1/2/3 the PS4's profits are coming from a crap ton of digital content and subscriptions. Margin on the hardware is nearly irrelevant because digital sales make them far more money in recurring revenue year over year.

All of that don't mean they can sell PS4 for $99 dollars , there certain parts in PS4 that won't get any cheaper like the blu ray drive , HDD , ram etc etc
If margins on the hardware was nearly irrelevant we would seen better deals or a price drop if Sony was going for user base .
Every year they sell out of $199 bundles because they don't give enough stock .
They are not since they also expect PS4 profit to help when they bring out PS5 and selling PS4 to cheap will hurt that .
Also people that buy systems for cheap are not big revenue \ profit makers .
 

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
Some people really need to get new material other than "Sony got lucky", that shtick is getting old.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,082
All of that don't mean they can sell PS4 for $99 dollars , there certain parts in PS4 that won't get any cheaper like the blu ray drive

optical drives become cheaper over time. A DVD drive in the PS2 didn't keep that system from being sold for $99. Nintendo's optical drive didn't keep the GC from being sold for $99, nor did the GD rom in the DC.


HDD's also become ridiculously cheap over time. Sony even stripped out the HDD entirely in favor of flash memory for the PS3 super slim.


Ram also becomes quite cheap over time. The PS1 and PS2 both had RAM. So did the gamecube and the DC.

If margins on the hardware was nearly irrelevant we would seen better deals or a price drop if Sony was going for user base
They are not since they also expect PS4 profit to help when they bring out PS5 .
Also people that buy systems for cheaper are not big revenue \ profit makers .

That's not how business works. Sony can only realistically manufacture so many PS4's a year. If they are still flying off the shelves at $300, why would they sell them for $99? (they wouldn't).

People who buy systems cheaper USED TO not be big revenue drivers since they only bought used games. That's no longer true with Sony selling digital content directly on the PS4. Even if no one buys a single game or movie on the PS4 through PSN, Sony makes millions a year selling advertising that reaches those people.