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Think you are making more out of nothing. I expect we would start seeing a lot of SSDs with a bold "PS5 compatible" sticker on it or something to that effect, and it's not the hardest thing to type PS5 SSD on amazon and get a list of compatible drives. I even expect to see sony endorsed official 3rd SSDs hit the market. There would be many of them, and like all cases like that would result in competition an price drops.
Off the shelf hardware is always better than proprietary hardware in my book. I haven't got an issue, either way, being that I would probably never be buying an SSD for the console anyways. Waste of money to me, I would sooner get a 2TB/4TB external USB drive and just do some house management every couple of months or so. Especially being that my PS4 games would also be on there.
And that open console at the back thingy is an exaggeration.. sony has been supporting user-upgradable hard drives for 2 generations now. Hasn't been a problem yet, don't know why it suddenly would. I am sure there would be a simple cover at the bottom of the console somewhere that you just open and have direct access to the SSD slot.
Has it occurred to some that there are things the SSD would offer the devs that just makes building on the PS5 easier? Which means they have more time to focus on other things? That doing so wouldn't necessarily be about "optimizing" fr the PS5 but rather just using the natural advantages the machinery have?
Kinda like the rez difference likely to be present between the XSX and PS5. Devs don't have to "optimize" for the XSX to see a higher fps/framerate/RT. Those are just natural benefits of having more GPU compute.
Looking at that Custom I/O slide again, is it saying some things can be done before it hits the ram? I just realized that was a one way arrow, lol.
I do agree with the dude in that clip about form factor. We havent seen it yet. That could explain some things.
It wont be too much different than how it was on PS3 and PS4. The custom I/O, SSD thing is different tho.
MS basically did the propriety thing with the 360 hard drive, so both companies have precedence.
I agree. Both approaches have their pros n cons but I have always preferred Sony's way for home consoles. They drooped the ball massively with the Vita tho. It should have used standard storage from day one.
It's more than twice as fast, on a key component. If this were any other metric twice as fast people would be losing their minds, it seems to be down to the fact that nobody really understands yet what this level of speed will mean. The speed is so fast it basically brings down a massive barrier. XSX is fast as well but that 125% difference or whatever it is will make a difference. How can it not should be the question people are asking.
Can I ask on what that will translate? Truth is that nobody knows, it can be something great it can be nothing. There will be other bottlenecks in place, otherwise why upgrade the rest when we can only increase ssd speeds?
Same here, but I'm hoping for a 1.65TB SKU even if the 0.83TB SKU is 499$. I'm willing to pay for comfort.
I also like MS's solution in 2020, but Sony's solution will probably be more attractive in 2024. A 1TB 7GB/s SSD is probably going to cost at least 250$ when the PS5 launches so MS's solution will probably be cheaper at launch. But as time goes by, PS5's open format will probably become more attractive.
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Don't give them bad ideas, I want my second controller!
Honestly I would probably get it either way too, but it would be a bit of a rort - there's no way doubling the capacity costs them any more than maybe $30-40. Then if a DS5 costs maybe $25-30 at the very high end (I've heard DS4s cost about $15 to make), that's still $30-40 more profit (or a $30-40 smaller loss?) on that SKU. Though some of that might have to make up for the extra costs that come with having 2 SKUs instead of one.
I think Sony simply can not afford to depend on 3rd parties for making those "PS5 certified" expansion SSDs and they'll have to make and sell their own expansion drives, probably in 2021 already. I have a feeling huge majority of mass market consumers will prefer to buy Sony made modules just to be safe! ( i'd do that for sure )
Pricing in that case will be very interesting.
Yeah, that's valid. I'd likely be the same way.
I'm actually really interested to see the prices on those things - the history of proprietary storage from both Xbox AND PlayStation does not fill me with confidence.
i assume you mean TB, this whole TF thing is killing our brains XD.
i want a 1.65 TB option at 100€/$ more too.
Imagine a streaming system for a next-gen PS5 exclusive title be something akin to this pertaining to density of detail and pace:
"Is-such-a-thing-even-possible.gif"...
It will certainly be interesting to see Sony's first party games to see what they can do with that insane SSD.
Horizon 2 will give a good indication I would imagine - open world games will get the biggest bump due to IO.
There are also rumours of GTAVI was well which are exciting.
It would be interesting if PS5 games are 1800p with temporal reconstruction to 4K while XSX games are native 4K but XSX games have worse pop in and texture streaming. What do you deem more important?
Horizon 2 is going to look amazing. Hope we can fly this time around.
'tis going to be, what are the brats calling it nowadays, lit. Yes, lit.
Just imagine a real time streaming system capable of that and more:
I think it should be enlightening when you see Cerny literally giving the example of the SSD being so fast you don't need to keep your full scene in RAM, you can literally stream data in based on the camera view and keep assets that are behind you for instance out of RAM. This could mean you use much higher assets because more of your RAM is actually being used directly for what is in view and not as a reserve for what isn't.
Now many games might not be suited to this design approach but that speed can still translate into higher detailed assets at all times in open world games. Maybe a mix between the two whereby your immediate surroundings have higher assets and stuff further out on the horizon in your field of view get higher assets too, with what's behind kept at a lower rate or not at all, and distant stuff streams in as you need it because you can.
Going at half the speed could basically break this impact and massively reduce what you can do. This speed is at such a threshold that new possibilities truly open up. If the TF count was double on one system there would be no doubt about the quantifiable difference that would make.
Developer gossip seems to bare this out, PS5 is doing something truly new and not really seen before and hey, even if it only gets fully utilised to the max by first party devs, are we for some reason not going to be excited to see what some of the best developers in the world can do when they unleash their talents on this and give us games that are silly not possible right now??? Games like GTAV on PS360 gen wouldn't have been possible without HDDs versus streaming slowly straight off disc. This SSD jump is so huge it's a leap I don't think we've ever seen before, of course it's going to impact game design and what's possible massively.
They might actually get smaller for a little while at least.
A big thing they were talking about is how on current gen consoles, they required a lot of redundancy.
Not to mention both companies went to great lengths to have dedicated compression systems.
Lol...
No way they add the ds5 to it, just defeats the whole purpose and put them in an even bigger hole. Even with a higher capacity SKU, they still would be losing money on that specific SKU, just less.
Say PS5 825GB has a BOM of $450 and an MSRP of $399. They would be losing like $70/console (adding $20 for retailer cut and/or other associated costs).
Now say the 1.65TB version has a BOM of $490, and sony sells that so for $499. They still are losing like $10/unit.
In cases like that? what sony would probably do is skew manufacturing towards the higher capacity SKU for like the first 3 months after launch, in the period when the buyers picking it up are the least price-sensitive of the bunch and when you are still supply constrained. They still get to market it starting at $399, when in truth they are making 5 $499 units for every $399 unit shipped.
If the M2 slot can be used at least for cold storage, to copy a 40Gb game between the OS drive and the M2 shouldn't take more than a minute.
Oh god, my fingers are hard wired to go to the T and F after a year of tech speculation.
They will be very expensive because you need 7GB/s SSD because of NVME standard only have two queues it is less efficient than the 5.5GB/s SSd insue. :( 1 TB will be at least 300/400 dollars Euros this fall.
It isn't, not on hardware anyway. Retailers make all their money on accessories, games and particularly used games
Thought that was GCI for a second there till i scrolled a bit down and saw the National Geographic logo.
Now i'm wondering how close to the uncanny valley we'll reach next gen.
3 generations actually. They have being doing this since PS2.
Benji estimated a few weeks back that ~50$ on top of the BOM goes to retail, shipping, storage, logistics, etc.
For those worrying Sony has hurt their brand with their PR so far. IGN poll.
Is this the american IGN? Imagine running that Poll in europe.
If Horizon 2 opened JUST like this (without the space part obviously), with the camera swooping into the valley and as it does, Aloy flies in from off-screen on a Stormbird and the camera starts following her then switches straight into gameplay, I would flip my shit
Just imagine that for a second -- Horizon 2 literally starting you off by flying in at breakneck speeds over beautiful vistas. What a perfect way to show off the technology of the PS5.
The more people talk about how the SSD is only going to be leveraged by first party titles the more disappointed I feel. I can't imagine that all third party developers will just say, "Series X is good enough speed and the cool demos Sony showed us doesn't light a fire inside us."
I hope we get third parties that give a go and think about porting to the "slower" system after getting something revolutionary up and running. It would be too sad if we only got 1 or 2 titles a year that pushed the PS5 to the limits.
I hope we get third parties that give a go and think about porting to the "slower" system after getting something revolutionary up and running. It would be too sad if we only got 1 or 2 titles a year that pushed the PS5 to the limits.
Lol this means nothing. Let's see what the messaging brings later in the year but I suspect you'll see 55/45 in favour of PS5 in the US should they continue making their message murky.For those worrying Sony has hurt their brand with their PR so far. IGN poll.
Just how fast the ps5 ssd really is starts to hit home when you look at something like the Wii U, which had 12GB/s to VRAM. The PS3 had around 22GB/s.
I don't know anything but I'd presume there wouldn't be pop in anymore on either next gen console. It's such a detrimental aspect of some modern games, the quickest way to ruin immersion. XSX still has a fast SSD. I'll be disappointed if AAA titles have any pop in whatsoever given the power at their disposal if I'm honest. If the choice has to be made then yeah I'd definitely rather have less/no pop in than native 4K.
So Cerny said the ssd will have a direct impact on the speed at which we can travel.
The thought of a faster thumper in vr makes me giddy. While I'm not into traditional racing games, that too should get a nice boost.
The thought of a faster thumper in vr makes me giddy. While I'm not into traditional racing games, that too should get a nice boost.
I would happily pay an extra $100 for double the SSD storage on the PS5 because lord knows how expensive those pcie 4.0 7GB/s drives will cost....
A more accurate comparison would be 3510x1974.38 with better quality and detailed asset streaming vs 3840x2160(4k) with worse.
And PS2's RAM bandwidth was 3.2GB/sec.
Super fast SSDs are going to be an amazing addition to consoles. Blows open the traditional IO paradigm.
Can I ask what program these clips are from?
I wanna watch it just for the visuals. =D
Yeah I'd take the former especially with all the reconstruction and temporal anti-aliasing etc. These resolution differences are not going to be noticed by 99% of gamers in practice.
It was a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. The video had been recorded for GDC, but GDC among most all events got cancelled because of C19. That video would have leaked, or some of those tech slides, info would have and it would have been super confusing without someone with proper knowledge to decipher it.
Right now what sucks is Sony can't really do anything because of the pandemic. Probably had something planned for a reveal after GDC. But now it's kind of in the wind.
Pop-in is mostly I/O dependent. Draw distance can be both (rendering polys has a computational cost, after all).
Doesn't all that compression talk play into this?
If the PS5 SSD is cable moving 9GB o data in a 5.5GB pipe every second, then surely that could indicate an at least 70- 80% compression?
So unless I am missing something, doesn't this also mean that the game on the SSD is already in its compressed state? So basically like getting 100GB worth of gam in a 60GB container of sorts.
Combination of all three and also RAM, but limited by your slowest factor in practice.
You stream your assets from your drive into your RAM and from there they are rendered by the GPU and interact with game logic via CPU. That is how basically all rendering works, but the streaming asset is important where you have open worlds or graduated loading - which is basically every game today.
Some people have been talking about Sony trying to remove bottlenecks, design a system where nothing holds the system back and every component will be able to fire on all cylinders - which is why they invested heavily in the SSD IO which is by far the worst component of that process.
There isn't a problem with the technical deep dive, but that is something that should be coming after a public facing consumer centric reveal - "here is the PS5, it's over twice as powerful as PS4Pro, look at these amazing games that are running on it" should have come out before this.
They have launch games coming out on the thing in 6 months. They can show games if they wanted to.
I hope this is possible. It would tide me over until in-spec drives are reasonably priced.
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