edit: Geometry Engine is definitely part of RDNA (see the white paper), so perhaps there's some Sony Sauce in there.
I don't have a clear proper analogy formed in my head yet, but I will just rely on MC. Simple structure, like a game map, run highly inefficiently while highly complex scenes with dense, small workloads run much more efficiently. They also happen to be what is encountered most while actually playing your graphically intense AAA game.What I would like is a clear proper explanation f how sony's fixed power but variable frequency thing works. I have an idea but it doesn't make that much sense to me how its different from what is done In PCs right now with CPUs and GPUs able to run at different clocks based on load.
Alright... I figured it out.I just want to know how low the GPU can go, hopefully still in the 10TF range.
Thanks.I don't have a clear proper analogy formed in my head yet, but I will just rely on MC. Simple structure, like a game map, run highly inefficiently while highly complex scenes with dense, small workloads run much more efficiently. They also happen to be what is encountered most while actually playing your graphically intense AAA game.
In my brain worm riddled pink stuff it works like this: In this way, the GPU is able to operate at the higher efficiency when it is correlated with a matched load , ie. small, dense workloads, and is more inefficient as it tackles larger, simpler workloads. Efficiency in a transistor means that less power is dissipated within the device as heat, and more power is used to do the actual computations. At 2.2 GHz we are firmly in low RF frequencies and traditional methodologies of thinking break down. This is all of course, just how I internalize it bc that is how RF & u-wave transistors for different applications are used.
I don't recall that.
From what I understand yes, but I would defer to someone with in-depth knowledge.
Yes, there are many inconsistencies but a few people here still somehow think it was gospel. It wasn't for either console, but it did set us in the same ballpark as the final results.
My guy, I am full on sporting a Mark Cerny as Bob Ross Painting SSD avatar. I lap up tech talks cause I am 100% used to them and deliver even duller ones myself on the regular. I spend hundred of hours every year reading journal and conference articles.
My personal opinion on the talk: clearly not technical enough for devs, and at the same time way the fuck over the head of 90% of playstation family. As a speaker, the #1 rule is know your audience. I am not saying it is his fault, I am sure there was pressure to respond to a wide audience, but this was mismanaged. This presentation missed the mark in more ways than one.
Yes but it all depends on what you perceive to be the first event. Take it for what it was, just a middle of the road tech talk. Just a briefing. Maybe a bit frustrating but we just have to wait. You got info. You didn't get games. You'll get that now the tech stuff is out of the way. Do you really think a Wednesday morning online is the way to fully announce a console? I don't really know what else you were expecting. The reality is 700k and probably quite a few more will see it at a dedicated event in the summer, the tens of millions more are likely to first see PS5 in October/November via a media campaign, just like the This Is For The Players Campaign for PS4. Just feels like people are clutching at straws when the thing isn't really out of the traps yet.You can't have the first event about your new shiny console be directed at developers.
Especially when you know your fanbase is thirsty for any info, and you go as far to hype it on social media.
There were over 700K people watching concurrently, only to listen to some high level tech lecture.
At least show some demos to illustrate to the fans how revolutionary your new system is.
The live chat when cerny showed the HRTF formula had me in tears lol
edit: Geometry Engine is definitely part of RDNA (see the white paper), so perhaps there's some Sony Sauce in there.
Yes but it all depends on what you perceive to be the first event. Take it for what it was, just a middle of the road tech talk. Just a briefing. Maybe a bit frustrating but we just have to wait. You got info. You didn't get games. You'll get that now the tech stuff is out of the way. Do you really think a Wednesday morning online is the way to fully announce a console? I don't really know what else you were expecting. The reality is 700k and probably quite a few more will see it at a dedicated event in the summer, the tens of millions more are likely to first see PS5 in October/November via a media campaign, just like the This Is For The Players Campaign for PS4. Just feels like people are clutching at straws when the thing isn't really out of the traps yet.
edit: Geometry Engine is definitely part of RDNA (see the white paper), so perhaps there's some Sony Sauce in there.
edit: Geometry Engine is definitely part of RDNA (see the white paper), so perhaps there's some Sony Sauce in there.
If you read his post, then you've already read more than I can explain. The idea in general is to prevent cache flushes that can cause pipeline stalls.Anex could you go some more into detail about the cache scrubbers if it possible and what it could mean .
Was reading what you and faf were talking about but there was not much detail on how it really works.
Yeah, I'm aware of that, but I wouldn't mind having my BC storage internal if the option is there, which it could be if the system supports internal PCIe 3.0 NVMe drives for BC / storage, but not for PS5 games.
If you read his post, then you've already read more than I can explain. The idea in general is to prevent cache flushes that can cause pipeline stalls.
Yes. I'm completely blind without seeing a benchmark/performance profile and knowing how often they encounter those kinds of flushes. What I can say is that if it was huge low hanging fruit, AMD would have already plucked it themselves.
At the most fundamental level it frees up cycles that were otherwise used for maintenance.
Yes. I'm completely blind without seeing a benchmark/performance profile and knowing how often they encounter those kinds of flushes. What I can say is that if it was huge low hanging fruit, AMD would have already plucked it themselves.
I like this theory. i think this is how it all went down.
reddit leak comes out in january, confirms 12 tflops anaconda , 4 tflops lockhart and an 8 tflops ps5. sony freaks out. they know MS has them sandwiched or boxed in. Heads roll at sony. Sony CEO kodera and Shawn Layden are fired for creating that fraud of a console. Jim Ryan comes in and gives Cerny two orders. increase the clocks to get to 9 tflops, and send out devkits with a radeon 7 to fool devs.
As cerny struggled to get a 2.0 ghz gpu in a console, Jim's plan to fool devs worked flawlessly as Andrew Reiner and he who shall not be named both got confirmations of a 13 tflops gpu. little did they know they had fallen for Jim's ingenious plan.
Meanwhile, Klee meets his source on a sunny afternoon late June on the sunny beaches of california. the sea was angry that day my friends, but klee got his source drunk enough to get some insider info. Klee's source told him about the monstrous lie. Jim had been playing us all along. there is no double digit rdna tflops, there is no hardware rt, no vrs, and then he cried for betraying him. "I am forced to code on a 9 tflops console that doesnt have hardware ray tracing.", he cried in anguish.
Klee was devastated. His trust now broken. He went back in time to create an era account to mislead Sony fans for months. "I want them to feel what i felt." he said to himself as he methodically leaked false info to era members thirsty for any news from Sony. Some users saw through it all. they soon realized Klee was a fake insider and coordinated a brave resistance. they fought klee on all many fronts. era, twitter, and discord. And then one day through sheer persistence, a miracle happened. They called it Miracle On Icera. On a dark and frigid afternoon in the snowy mountains of Alaska, Klee realized the monster he had become, and banned himself by committing soduku. Viva La resistance.
Cerny seeing everything crashing down around him, is in hiding. You see, he had also lied about hardware rt in the ps5 gpu and now found himself on the cusp of the PS5 announcement with no RT and no double digit tflops to show for. Sony's lies finally caught up to them.
Cerny spent a lot of time in japan and i dont know what you know about japanese culture, but Cerny is an expert. you see, after lying to wired and sony fans for a year, honor and shame finally caught up to Cerny. PS5 Principal Engineer walks into Cerny;s office with tears in his eyes. "Promise me, promise me everything you said about hardware RT in the PS5 was true." he asked Cerny knowing what the answer was going to be. Cerny looks at his watch, as the github leaks flash before his eyes and lies, "I promise."
Cut to black.
Gunshot.
Possibly not as it eats up space on-wafer and in a discrete GPU not entirely possible.Yes. I'm completely blind without seeing a benchmark/performance profile and knowing how often they encounter those kinds of flushes. What I can say is that if it was huge low hanging fruit, AMD would have already plucked it themselves.
lol this guy reminds me of the ps5 story i wrote mocking the guy spreading the conspiracy theory that sony sent out vega devkits to trick journalists. he played a minor role in the explosive ending, but its funny reading it now because it really does look like these insane set of events most probably transpired in real life. i really dont know why reiner, colin and klee would all say ps5 had more tflops.
It is really exciting that they went heavier into custom hardware this time versus the PS4. I'm excited to see how it pays off!While it don't have as many TF as we would hope .
It still interesting to see that Sony went with more custom hardware compare to PS4.
Time will tell if that was right or wrong but i looking forward to games even more so with first party .
I doubt it takes up that much space. It's just an address snooper that updates a bit in the register file of the GPU.Possibly not as it eats up space on-wafer and in a discrete GPU not entirely possible.
Maybe it needs to somehow be coherent with the RAM configuration natively? I dunno. Just spitballing.I doubt it takes up that much space. It's just an address snooper that updates a bit in the register file of the GPU.
That could be part of it. A discrete GPU wouldn't necessarily know what was in main RAM or disk.Maybe it needs to somehow be coherent with the RAM configuration natively? I dunno. Just spitballing.
we went another day without a clarification from sony. to me, this is it. they couldnt even get BC right after potentially gimping the gpu just to get BC? this is so hard to believe.there were some theories that sony keep 36cu for bc, so quite a big dedication for 100 titles ;d
I feel like this: If Sony stuck with 36CU for BC, worked with AMD for years on it (since 2014 it is known) and has 100 games MAYBE possible for BC at launch, this is the most colossal derp I could possibly imagine. Not just for Mark Cerny, but as well for is AMD collaborators. I see this as just not true. They would have abandoned fucking ship on this thing.we went another day without a clarification from sony. to me, this is it. they couldnt even get BC right after potentially gimping the gpu just to get BC? this is so hard to believe.
i dont know. i hate to keep sounding alarm bells but all of this is very similar to what happened last gen. ESRAM vs SRAM on the die increasing die size and price and reducing CU count. nand costs biting them in the ass just like that fire that raised ddr3 prices. design decisions aimed at targeting the casual market ended up costing them the power advantage; kinect for MS, $399 casual friendly pricetag for sony. leaving them both with an expensive console that is not as powerful or feature rich as their main competitor.
while MS was touting HDR support for games released as far back as 2001, and native 4k upgrades for xbox one games, even ray tracing patches for their first party games. sony is struggling to prove standard bc for more than a 100 games.
and i dont think its just poor marketing either. seeing as how the github leaks were spot on, i wouldnt be surprised that the bloomberg article was too. maybe sony was caught off guard and now is struggling to respond in literally every way possible.
This question would make fanboys seethe lol.And now the Million dollar question.
Is Higher Rez = Better version?
So say the XSX would always run at 10% higher rez than the PS5 and they are both targeting 4K. But the PS5 always can match its framerates, can load in assets faster and has all-round better loading times.
Which ends up being the better version?
They really shouldn't have announced it till after getting some good PS5 press from having a good reveal event, soften the blow.I feel like this: If Sony stuck with 36CU for BC, worked with AMD for years on it (since 2014 it is known) and has 100 games MAYBE possible for BC at launch, this is the most colossal derp I could possibly imagine. Not just for Mark Cerny, but as well for is AMD collaborators. I see this as just not true. They would have abandoned fucking ship on this thing.
I could see it becoming the de facto multiplayer system if you can load into matches faster than anyone else (assuming crossplay).And now the Million dollar question.
Is Higher Rez = Better version?
So say the XSX would always run at 10% higher rez than the PS5 and they are both targeting 4K. But the PS5 always can match its framerates, can load in assets faster and has all-round better loading times.
Which ends up being the better version?
I don't think it is accurate. I think the 100 is what has been tested with native clocks. We KNOW there are literally 2 other modes where clocks and hardware are adjusted for BC. I think the vast majority of games played and this is only a PR misunderstanding.They really shouldn't have announced it till after getting some good PS5 press from having a good reveal event, soften the blow.
They really need a software solution before 2027, wonder if cloud gaming can help them out in the future.Idle thought: if Sony is dependent on matching hardware configurations for BC, every future PS console has to be able to run at 2.23GHz.
Possibly not, as they only need to retain the same efficiency levels per clock at a minimum because the clock frequency itself will vary.Idle thought: if Sony is dependent on matching hardware configurations for BC, every future PS console has to be able to run at 2.23GHz.
If that's the case then they probably should've mentioned that yesterday, poor marketing from the event.I don't think it is accurate. I think the 100 is what has been tested with native clocks. We KNOW there are literally 2 other modes where clocks and hardware are adjusted for BC. I think the vast majority of games played and this is only a PR misunderstanding.
100 times over, yes. I think the message is piss poor. Especially with no clarification today. Of course, I have been known to be wrong, but given what Mark Cerny said during his talk, for me at least, it was crystal clear he was discussing issues with running the old games at native (and variable) clocks.If that's the case then they probably should've mentioned that yesterday, poor marketing from the event.
And now the Million dollar question.
Is Higher Rez = Better version?
So say the XSX would always run at 10% higher rez than the PS5 and they are both targeting 4K. But the PS5 always can match its framerates, can load in assets faster and has all-round better loading times.
Which ends up being the better version?
Quick question about these native clocks, are these 100 games targeting resolutions and frame rates higher that whats achievable on the Pro?100 times over, yes. I think the message is piss poor. Especially with no clarification today. Of course, I have been known to be wrong, but given what Mark Cerny said during his talk, for me at least, it was crystal clear he was discussing issues with running the old games at native (and variable) clocks.
Of course all in my mind cannon:Quick question about these native clocks, are these 100 games targeting resolutions and frame rates higher that whats achievable on the Pro?
Is the Bloodbourne 60fps dream alive?
Ah okay, thanks.Of course all in my mind cannon:
Bloodbourne has a capped frame rate so without a patch, that will never improve. If you use HDMI 2.1 VRR, that may mitigate the frame pacing stutter issue.
Games with variable resolution (Battlefield) and unlocked frame rate modes (Tomb Raider, etc.) will natively benefit.
There has been no discussion of any ML enhancements or otherwise (i.e. MS HDR remapping)
I think it is up to Sony on that one ;)
Luckily i haven't started writing yet lol,
It would be nothing if not interesting that's for sure.I think that's an interesting question. It's going to be up to personal preference I think.
I could see it becoming the de facto multiplayer system if you can load into matches faster than anyone else (assuming crossplay).
In Sony's mind, they don't need to clarify because they haven't done their actual reveal yet. I'm 90% sure that's what's going on.100 times over, yes. I think the message is piss poor. Especially with no clarification today. Of course, I have been known to be wrong, but given what Mark Cerny said during his talk, for me at least, it was crystal clear he was discussing issues with running the old games at native (and variable) clocks.
An ultra fast drive like the one in PS5 means you could be load in the highest level LOD asset for your models way further than you could before and make worlds any way you want without worry of it streaming in fast enough. The PS5 drive is so fast I imagine you could load up entire neighborhoods in a city with all of their maps at super high resolution in a blink of an eye. It's exciting. People don't realize that this will also affect visuals in a big way. If we can stream in bigger worlds and stream in the highest detail texture maps available, it will just look so much better.
I'm glad that the experience around SSG around the SSD of PS5 is being used properly.
KOMACHIWHAT
Yeah the way I took it was "it's real, but doesn't paint the whole picture. Glad we can move on from it"To the contrary, I took your post to imply that there was some truth to the leak, whereas many people seemed to act like it meant that you were completely discrediting it.
lol. Komachi and _rogame two peas in a pod.