Realistically, how is Microsoft expected to compete with Sony next generation? Can they?
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Thanks for the info!
Is it how these machines handle raytracing? Would fit with your mult-platform comment, baked vs ray traced lighting?
It would be cheaper for Sony to make contracts for exclusives, because of the larger installed base to sell to.
If someone were to make an exclusivity deal for the Xbox One, they'd have to take into account having slightly under half of the audience to sell their game to, and the exclusive contract would be expected to compensate financially.
Of course, this is then muddied by the fact that Microsoft exclusivity inherently lets you sell your game on PC alongside the Xbox, as we've seen from pretty much every announced Series X exclusive game.
I think when people are talking about considerably stronger they are referring to console performance of prior gens.
The PS4 was almost 40-50% stronger compared to the Xbox one and had a huge memory advantage.
The One X was 40-50% stronger than the PS4 pro and had a huge memory advantage.
This gen they are on paper less than 20% apart and the memory in relation to the power is basically even and should also be a wash.
And this CPU nonsense is so baffling people are bringing up over and over. There is a 3% difference or something like that when they are running SMT and they will run SMT on 99% of the games outside of BC and a few indies probably.
I think it will be another 'blowout' in terms of console sales. I actually expect next-gen to finish very similarly to this one. That's over 100 million PS5's and 50-60 million Xbox Series X/S sold.
The Xbox brand is dead is many markets (if it was ever alive at all). There will be a sales battle in the UK, US and maybe a couple of other countries. But apart from that, there are no other markets that the Xbox can compete.
The Series X could be half the price and have twice as many good games as the PS5, in terms of worldwide sale figures, it simply won't make a difference.
MS knows this, which is why they're leaning into subscriptions.
The Xbox brand is dead is many markets (if it was ever alive at all). There will be a sales battle in the UK, US and maybe a couple of other countries. But apart from that, there are no other markets that the Xbox can compete.
The Series X could be half the price and have twice as many good games as the PS5, in terms of worldwide sale figures, it simply won't make a difference.
MS knows this, which is why they're leaning into subscriptions.
True, but then you have to factor in the difference in buy intentions from customers (might change after price anouncement). 2:1 even before generation is starting is a big deal.
Today as a 3rd party, i'd have way less interest into getting a deal with MS than Sony. I'd just be asking more money to MS to compensate for that.
Nobody said MS didnt want to buy exclusive at the same price as Sony, it is said MS did not want to pay the price asked by the developper.
Personally i'll get ps5 (for 1st party and 3rd party i cant wait for) and GP (for 1st party and 3rd party i can wait for)... but outside of Era or core gaming, who does that?
MS clearly wants to push subscription based services above hardware. Even if they do not abandon hardware, it's just not their focus.
As much as im all for lower prices on games, Im afraid that current and futute MS strategy would snowball way to much in favor of sony and that would hurt their catalog in the end
Here is a difference if the TF performance scaled perfectly with resolution:
These are lossless pics uploaded to lensdump which doesn't compress:
(from this video: https://youtu.be/DUvqIlkLbkk)
Eventually, yes. Microsoft have mentioned that the reason they included a SMT-disabled option for their CPU, is because they expect early next-gen and cross-gen games to be running on existing engines that aren't yet upgraded to make use of multi-threading.
If that will end up being the case, and how long it'll be the case, is unknown.
Here is a difference if the TF performance scaled perfectly with resolution:
These are lossless pics uploaded to lensdump which doesn't compress:
(from this video: https://youtu.be/DUvqIlkLbkk)
User Banned (2 weeks): Console wars, ignoring staff post, history of similar behavior
Where it belongs, in the garbage bin.
+ Good Games
+ Price competetive. If they can get their flagship model the same price as the flagship PS5 and "Lockheart" being the cheapest alternative it'd be a good start.
I don't think Xbox will outsell Playstation by units, but the gap could very well be a lot closer. As far as actual revenue, Xbox could actually be very competetive in this sense.
+ Price competetive. If they can get their flagship model the same price as the flagship PS5 and "Lockheart" being the cheapest alternative it'd be a good start.
I don't think Xbox will outsell Playstation by units, but the gap could very well be a lot closer. As far as actual revenue, Xbox could actually be very competetive in this sense.
Games targeted for next gen certainly is making use of it and even if you are not the CPU difference probably won't even mean anything at all since games are far more likely to be GPU limited.
And if you are making a cross gen game run on jaguar cores outdated at release 7 years ago as well as these new desktop CPU's one thing that is certain is it will be really fucking hard to be CPU limited on the new console regardless if they are running SMT of not so won't matter anyway.
Microsoft could be plenty competitive...in America. There are many fans of their exclusive titles here. Will Xbox outsell PS5? Fuck no. The brand is dead to the international mass market.
1080p 60 fps GT7 and Deathloop run at 4k 60 fps with raytracing. A bit of seriousness and Deathloop is a third party game. The PS5 is much more powerful than an Xbox One X, there is no reason multiplatform games run under 1440p 60 fps if Epic reachs it target of this resolution with the demo on PS5 at 60 fps.
GT7 and Deathloop run at 4k 60 fps with raytracing. There is no reason a game run at 1080p 60 fps out of devs don't know what they do on PS5. Most of the games are cross-gen and all the games out of Sackboy run at 4k during PS5 reveal event most at 30 fps but some at 60fps.
I think the biggest questions for Xbox is how they'll keep Gamepass priced competitively and how they'll adjust if more AAA games start going F2P. We've seen awesome streaming services be forced to bump up their prices as the service gets bigger and more successful, and gamepass will lose value if more games start going the fortnite/Destiny 2 route.
Their first party is going to be critical if both of those situations arise, it's interesting that their biggest IP is making its multiplayer F2P, that would seemingly be a big blow to gamepass. Maybe they can offer Gamepass owners benefits like skins or whatever it is that the game sells, but i'm not sure if people would sign up for a subscription for something like that.
Things will be interesting.
Their first party is going to be critical if both of those situations arise, it's interesting that their biggest IP is making its multiplayer F2P, that would seemingly be a big blow to gamepass. Maybe they can offer Gamepass owners benefits like skins or whatever it is that the game sells, but i'm not sure if people would sign up for a subscription for something like that.
Things will be interesting.
My gut feeling: Halo f2p with a battle pass. Battle pass included in GP.
Edit: You'll be able to buy the battle pass separately as well, of course, but the idea would be to get those who would normally just buy the battle pass on its own to upgrade to GP.
Most of ps4 x1 games are running with multithread cpu coding. Ps3 and x360 games were not .
Here is a difference if the TF performance scaled perfectly with resolution:
These are lossless pics uploaded to lensdump which doesn't compress:
(from this video: https://youtu.be/DUvqIlkLbkk)
B is lower resolution.....lolol.
Dude don't worry about the insiders talk. In 3 months 3rd pary games will be out and we see the comparisons between 2 consoles . Assassin creed valhalla will show us the difference in power between 2 or call of duty 2020.
We are almost there .
And I expect both to be within 20% of resolution running the same fps.so xsx 2160p vs ps5 1900p both same FPS is my guess.
BC will benefit and it will require less optimization for CPU but I would be very surprised if anyone developing games made for next gen does not do it with SMT disabled.
Yeah, that's really weird! I mean a console like PS4 can run 1080p/60fps games like GTS (which its graphics are amazing for this generation), but PS5 can't do that even for the first wave of next gen titles?
Maybe it was 1800p not 1080p?
Again when he said something late it is verified. It was the only one to say one of the consoles is 15% less powerful than the other and, it was verified. Dusk talked about Silent Hill and nowhere to be seen. But if the game is a reality I suppose if development begins in 2019, it will be revealed later and release in 2022 or later.
For the moment no Silent hill in June or august. ;)
No it doesn't. That's just a shallow and idealistic conclusion to draw. The reality, as myself and others have brought up earlier, is that it has been Sony's primary strategy to move its PS4 users to PS5 faster than ever before, and leveraging their brand strength to secure third-party exclusives works towards this goal.
Fucking hell, what is wrong with resetera? Why can't I open the screenshots in a new tab with the scroll wheel button? I want to A/B them by changing tabs. What is the point of left clicking them and replacing the current thread with the screenshot? Is there supposed to be some kind of advantage to that than opening them in a new tab? Because I don't see any advantages.Here is a difference if the TF performance scaled perfectly with resolution:
These are lossless pics uploaded to lensdump which doesn't compress:
(from this video: https://youtu.be/DUvqIlkLbkk)
Absolutely. People like me who don't have as much time to play games as they used to are probably super appreciative of the game pass, and I imagine a lot of families will be too. Does your kid only want a monthly subscription as opposed to expensive new games frequently? It might not work out much cheaper on paper, particularly when you consider other third party games they might want, but it's hard not to appear enticing when you're just plain looking at it.
If they can get the pricing of the console to the same standard as the ps5, I think they've got a good shot. Many people question the 'goodwill' and such that Xbox has atm, but I think that their resurgence has been astounding in terms of service and value. Their big issue with Sony is that the first party output from Sony is just stellar, and anyone who is already a fan of that type of beautiful, fluid storytelling content doesn't really have a reason to go to Xbox next-gen at the time being, afaik.
I'm really excited about this gen. Already have both consoles, mostly the ps4 for bloodborne, yazuka, persona and other exclusives, but the output from both competitors has been really nice to see. I don't think you can go wrong with either of the next consoles unless some seriously detrimental detail is released, and I think Xbox can compete against Sony with the right marketing tactics. Free Halo is already a strong start.
If they can get the pricing of the console to the same standard as the ps5, I think they've got a good shot. Many people question the 'goodwill' and such that Xbox has atm, but I think that their resurgence has been astounding in terms of service and value. Their big issue with Sony is that the first party output from Sony is just stellar, and anyone who is already a fan of that type of beautiful, fluid storytelling content doesn't really have a reason to go to Xbox next-gen at the time being, afaik.
I'm really excited about this gen. Already have both consoles, mostly the ps4 for bloodborne, yazuka, persona and other exclusives, but the output from both competitors has been really nice to see. I don't think you can go wrong with either of the next consoles unless some seriously detrimental detail is released, and I think Xbox can compete against Sony with the right marketing tactics. Free Halo is already a strong start.
Xbox is an American brand aimed at Americans and as long as Microsoft keep doing this type of marketing strategy, the console and the games they produce will mostly just be a popular US phenomenon.
The US isn't the world (big surprise...) and Microsoft and gamers arguing for Xbox' success need to realize this basic fact.
The US isn't the world (big surprise...) and Microsoft and gamers arguing for Xbox' success need to realize this basic fact.
I think they are making all the right moves, so as a consumer I am happy. I don't need to be shown "Next Gen" to believe in the hardware they built. I do think they will be getting some good will when multiplatform games perform better. I would rather them to buy games for Game Pass instead of 3rd party exclusive content. I feel like their consoles will sell out this holiday regardless, so I hope that if Infinite isn't polished that they hold it back. There is so much competition in November anyway. Overall, they still have work to do, but they are doing much better than they did in 2013. A big studio acquisition or a couple of highly reviewed titles could continue to help change their game quality narrative.
Really? 3-4 big first-party games per year over 2 years is pretty standard fare for a platform holder.
Thanks for your insight, Dusk!
Is it as some of us initially feared? Because of the variable clockspeeds of the PS5's GPU?
This is like a reverse PS4/X1 situation... 😅
If Microsoft end up releasing a cheaper, more powerful console, that is.
I was initially disappointed with the PS5 specs and how they were going about things with the GPU, but if it's more expensive as well? And has the types of problems you're mentioning? Then Sony can fuck right off with that bullshit! I don't mind spending money, but I hate paying more for less.
It would explain the moneyhatting... I'd just rather they'd spent that money on a better GPU.
Are there any other differences besides performance? It sure makes you curious about some of the wording some companies have been using as well (Project Athia being "designed" for the PS5, for example).
Damn, pretty much exactly what I was gonna say.
Everything starts with games
Oh, I'm aware. Trying not to assume what this game even is because for all we know it could be path traced Minecraft which struggled with 1080p 60FPS even on Xbox Series X.
You can open them then right click open in new tab (at least in chrome) to compare. If you zoom in to native resolution, you can see A is slightly more sharp and jaggies are crisper, B is very slightly blurrier and some highlights are lost. On screen and in motion, I can't imagine I'd be able to see a difference though.
Realistically they will be fine because they will continue to cater to the masses. They just won't cater to the whim of every hard core players desires. That's ok too
Just a personal opinion as a switch owner and Nintendo fan that hasn't had a tech wise competitive platform since forever (Gamecube back then, decent pc during the later PS3/360 years) but that wants a PS5 or an XSX this winter or next spring.
I feel like I personally will hardly care about the difference in performance. Both will be good enough to wow me and be a huge jump from my last pc and the Switch. So it really comes down to software and services. Right now Gamepass feels more appealing to me than 2-3 big cinematic sp games that Sony is known for. Gamepass seems to have lots of games with a pc heritage which is nice and I like to try different indies.
So for undecided people I feel like Xbox has more to offer with gamepass, as that's something relatively new. If you care about PS5 because of Sonys games, you're probably already invested in Sony.
Of course, considering their advantage in brand recognition it's gonna be tough to compensate that just with gamepass, especially in europe and developing markets.
I feel like I personally will hardly care about the difference in performance. Both will be good enough to wow me and be a huge jump from my last pc and the Switch. So it really comes down to software and services. Right now Gamepass feels more appealing to me than 2-3 big cinematic sp games that Sony is known for. Gamepass seems to have lots of games with a pc heritage which is nice and I like to try different indies.
So for undecided people I feel like Xbox has more to offer with gamepass, as that's something relatively new. If you care about PS5 because of Sonys games, you're probably already invested in Sony.
Of course, considering their advantage in brand recognition it's gonna be tough to compensate that just with gamepass, especially in europe and developing markets.
Here you go:
On Chrome you can hold CNTR and press the corresbonding number keys of the tabs to jump between.
I read all that guy said. Only thing I don't believe is struggling to get 1080p60 in a game.
Also another thing, there are a lot of talks about 4K, 120fps, etc. but what will happen if a game gets much bigger?
Remember Spiderman loading in PS4 vs PS5? What if there is a 4K60 Spiderman with much bigger world and detail, will it load that fast?
Hey not here to hate, but I would prefer a bigger game with more detail in 1080p60 than going next gen with same size and detail in games and just jump in resolution and framerate.
Also another thing, there are a lot of talks about 4K, 120fps, etc. but what will happen if a game gets much bigger?
Remember Spiderman loading in PS4 vs PS5? What if there is a 4K60 Spiderman with much bigger world and detail, will it load that fast?
Hey not here to hate, but I would prefer a bigger game with more detail in 1080p60 than going next gen with same size and detail in games and just jump in resolution and framerate.
Seems pretty high to me, especially as all of these titles will be no-expense-spared AAA experiences.
Plus, this is all from internal studios, no publishing or second party titles listed at all.
If what Dusk is saying turns out to be true, that would be quiet big for Microsoft.
Having the stronger machine for a lower price would be a huge deal.
Though, logically this doesn't make a lot of sense for me right now, especially because I think Sony can take a way bigger hit for the console. Even if we ignore the BOM.
Xbox locked almost all their hardcore fans into Gamepass. Most of them already have a running subscription till 2022 for cheap. There is little reason for these people to buy first party games additionally to the console.
Sony will sell the console and 2-3 first party games to every consumer in the first few months. That will immediately recoup the loss they were doing with the console.
I think that will give Sony a bigger leeway to price their console aggressively.
Having the stronger machine for a lower price would be a huge deal.
Though, logically this doesn't make a lot of sense for me right now, especially because I think Sony can take a way bigger hit for the console. Even if we ignore the BOM.
Xbox locked almost all their hardcore fans into Gamepass. Most of them already have a running subscription till 2022 for cheap. There is little reason for these people to buy first party games additionally to the console.
Sony will sell the console and 2-3 first party games to every consumer in the first few months. That will immediately recoup the loss they were doing with the console.
I think that will give Sony a bigger leeway to price their console aggressively.
Are you really thinking PS5 can't do 1080@60 ? ( when we already seeing 4K@60fps games)
I mean we had matt who seen the system explain stuff already .
As for the moneyhatting Sony has always done this since the PS1 gen .
It's either people forget how Sony is or they young .
Even more impressive when they can really say "10 bucks for over 200 games". They are currently at about ~250 title on console
Matt since u have had experience with both devkits is it true that ps5 is difficult to perform well in multiplatform games and the differences are very visible in favor of xsx like it is suggested here ?
Thanks in advance
It really depends. I won't be surprised if Sony sells more even if it costs more. What happened with PS4 was a risk and Sony could have gone, but fortunately they sold a lot of consoles, games and services. They should be careful even now, because MS is investing also in other areas and with time there might be more people interested on a Xbox. Time will tell.
I expect around the same # of consoles sold (~40-60 million) for Xbox this gen, but much higher revenue driven by subscriptions. I also expect their console sales to contract worldwide, but solidify in the states.
Doubling down on Gamepass seems to be what they're doing, at the expense of a hardware defining software scheme like PlayStation. It remains to be seen if that will help sell new hardware, but it doesn't really matter because at the end of the day the box is a way to get your subscription money and keep you in the walled garden.
Doubling down on Gamepass seems to be what they're doing, at the expense of a hardware defining software scheme like PlayStation. It remains to be seen if that will help sell new hardware, but it doesn't really matter because at the end of the day the box is a way to get your subscription money and keep you in the walled garden.
He saying nothing of profitability for ONLY Gamepass. Gamepass is the hook that will lead to their eventually profits out of you. He's saying they value getting a user into their ecosystem. They want you on "Xbox" so you subscribe for Gamepass, use xCloud, and then stick around and buy plenty of other games for years to come. There's nothing weird about that
Out of pathtraced game I doubt games will run at 1080p on PS5.
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