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reddit (captainstarpaw)| Analysis: Assassin's Creed highlights a very concerning trend regarding how game audio is being poorly handled.

PyroPaperPlanes

PyroPaperPlanes

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,072
I found this brilliant thread posted on reddit, linked here. https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/jx8lpc/analysis_assassins_creed_highlights_a_very/

captainstarpaw said:
Enough was enough, I put my investigative cap on and started by first extracting the audio files using Wwise-unpacker, and proceeding to analyse the files using Adobe Audition. I discovered that the SFX is saved at a 24,000 Hz sample rate, with a variable bitrate that peaks at around 70 kbps. Yes, mystery unravelled, it really is that bad. Those of you who do not fully appreciate this technical blunder, might better appreciate it if I put it this way. Visually, it is the equivalent of removing 50% of the colours in a painting, and leaving smears where the details are.
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I won't post the full thread here. I have to agree with their argument that it feels like audio is often forgotten in reviews these days. Are there any examples of a game (or movie?) you can think of where an audio mix or audio compression quality has proved distracting to you? Are there any particular reviewers that you enjoy that cover audio in their reviews?
 
Bansai

Bansai

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,413
I rarely find issue with audio in games, but while playing newest assassin even my blunt ears found a lot of it really poorly handled.

I'm not fluent with the terminology, but the sound "mixing" (I think?) is horrible and everything clashes with each other, resulting in one big mess.
 
Halbrand

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,630
I feel like I've noticed the non-cutscene dialogue being of poor audio quality in several AC games including Origins.
 
Bear

Bear

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,964
It's been an issue with Assassin's Creed since Origins. Not sure how they haven't taken significant flack for it. It sounds like it was recorded in a tin can.
 
Fjordson

Fjordson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,024
I'm no audio expert, but 70 kbps seems shockingly low.

My personal experience with Valhalla has been that, despite using 3D audio through $300 headphones, it sounds pretty bad. Just really muffled and thin.
 

Deleted member 34714

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 28, 2017
1,617
The audio put me off from Valhalla. It's fucking awful and takes me out of the immersion. Reading the OT, barely anyone there is mentioning it so I don't want to bring it up.

IlD6YX6.jpg

Quite sure no one else responded but me.
 
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JoRu

JoRu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,812
I simply think most reviewers, or perhaps players in general, don't have either the ears or equipment to distinguish good game audio from bad.

I haven't played Valhalla though, maybe it's particularly bad there to the point most people will notice.
 
behOemoth

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,742
This was always my take with Nintendo games, because they are way too noticeably bad. However, I really don't know any reviewer noticing the design of sound besides besides having good effects and maybe good tunes.
For instance the overall quality and dynamic range of all effects, design and music in the last of us 2 was a whole new level and I think no one mentioned that.
 
Tagyhag

Tagyhag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,650
Yeah the audio of the new AC games freaking sucks. Say what you want about the games, but the graphics are pretty polished so it really stands out.
 
CHC

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,251
Yeah I watched walkthrough of the first few minutes of Valhalla and it was super weird seeming. Like you walk into some really intense looking Viking party and it's super quiet, then someone yells like "WELCOME!" and hits the strings on his lute with SUPER enthusiasm and then it's this piddly little guitar sound with zero oomph to it.

Haven't played the game but the audio is super anemic and I remember it also being that way in Origins as well.
 
Nappuccino

Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,131
Audio can take up a shocking amount of space and I guess when you're trying to have multiple audio sources playing at once, things get very intensive?

Not an excuse really, because they should just design around that limitation, not highlight it and ruin the game audio.
 

Deleted member 8468

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,109
It's extremely noticeable on PS5 when compared to Sony's first party games. Astro's Playroom, Spider-Man, and Demon's Souls all put it to shame.
 
ekim

ekim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,411
Yeah - I noticed the sound being really muffled for the most part but I usually credit my TV being the culprit here.
 
leng jai

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,135
Been complaining since day one in the OT. Absolutely terrible audio which isn't even new, Origins and Odyssey weren't good either.

Hearing this and then going to Demon's Souls is embarrassing.
 
JoJo'sDentCo

JoJo'sDentCo

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,545
Yeah and it really stands out in comparison to something amazing like the Demons Souls remake.
 
jediyoshi

jediyoshi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
I imagine audio compression is the first thing to get upped in trying to save on install size.
 
leng jai

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,135
Just another thing that makes media critics less and less useful. It's ridiculous how many glaring technical issues that fails to get mentioned even when it's this bad.
 
ravnelis

ravnelis

Prophet of Regret
Member
Jan 1, 2018
654
Definitely the weakest part of the game. I actually tried using multiple different headphones at first, because I thought that something is wrong with them or the console. Then I tried a different game and... yeah. It became obvious it's an issue with the game itself.

Another issue is that there are usually very few audio sources and sounds drop off very quickly, it gives it an impression of some cheap animated series. The other option is that Eivor is having very serious hearing problems....

Considering that both new consoles have powerful audio chips... This is quite embarrassing on Ubisoft's part.
 
Chumunga64

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,434
really weird considering how ubisoft is good at accessibility, you'd think they'd get basic shit right easily
 
Karak

Karak

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,088
Yep for sure noticable. While some of the ending thoughts aren't exactly my own it is something that some people will pick up on right away.
When I was talking about it in the review in progress I noticed also what felt like missing sounds or just...something weird going on. But its just really aggressive leaning out of samples in some parts.
 
Alias03

Alias03

Member
Oct 27, 2017
146
When I was playing this the other day I knew something felt off about the audio! Glad this confirms that suspicion. I assume this is something they can patch? My knowledge is below basic on this kinda thing
 
leng jai

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,135
Pancracio17 said:
The thing is that this is non-obvious basic shit. The average joe will notice that the audio isnt the best, but wont blame it on the game.
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The average joe sadly doesn't given't shit about audio quality either way as long as there's "sound".

Alias03 said:
When I was playing this the other day I knew something felt off about the audio! Glad this confirms that suspicion. I assume this is something they can patch? My knowledge is below basic on this kinda thing
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Almost zero chance this gets fixed from my experience. Plenty of games have awful sound quality and they rarely ever get patched.
 
JustTeaThankYou

JustTeaThankYou

Member
Aug 31, 2019
2,690
Obviously they are recording / mastering at higher than this.

The question for audio experts / game developers out there would be: what's the motive? Is it to save disk space? Because live audio mixing is expensive? Is this an incorrect decision that they are making?
 
Vitamin_B_Complex

Vitamin_B_Complex

Member
Jan 21, 2019
2,903
When your thunderstorm doesn't sound like the roof is coming down, you sound mix is shit. The last of us 2 had a wonderful sound mix. Everything felt just right. Rain felt and sounded wet. In most games, rain sounds incredibly muffled and flat.
 
leng jai

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,135
JustTeaThankYou said:
Obviously they are recording / mastering at higher than this.

The question for audio experts / game developers out there would be: what's the motive? Is it to save disk space? Because live audio mixing is expensive? Is this an incorrect decision that they are making?
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Assassin's Creed games look expensive as hell but somehow as soon as it comes to sound design/mixing there's 5% of the effort/money put into it in comparison.
 
ghibli99

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,036
That's a bummer. I've sadly become a "TV audio at low volume" gamer in recent years since I play in our office where my wife also watches TV shows. I'll put headphones on occasionally, but even then they're open-back and also at a lower volume so I can hear her. When I had nicer audio equipment, this kind of stuff used to drive me nuts though.
 
fireworksordie

fireworksordie

Member
May 30, 2018
3,406
Temperance said:
Should be using Opus if it's that low of a bitrate.
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yeah this is the most frustrating part. the choices they have made are almost certainly a result of complaints from people about install and update patch sizes. but there are a number of incredible, low overhead codecs that would make the audio files a fraction of their uncompressed size and still be imperceptibly lossless to the human ear. audio encoded with opus would almost certainly be even lower filesize while still vastly superior quality than their shitty implementation here.

this shit is so frustrating, and it's an evolution of the problem where people spend every moment picking apart visual resolution (understandably) without really ever talking about audio (bummer). we basically need a DigitalFoundry for audio analysis before any of this stuff will seep into creator's heads.
 
leng jai

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,135
chromatic9 said:
What is the sample and bitrate of Odyssey and Origins?
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Not sure both games always sounded like they had compressed dialog and terrible dynamic range overall. Origins was especially hilarious because it had Atmos support. What's the point when the audio inherently sounds poor in the first place?
 
Callibretto

Callibretto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,545
Indonesia
Well, I guess we know which studio Mark Cerny is refering here, lol
"There's a pecking order within the game teams. The graphics folks get the lion's share of the hardware resources and the audio team has to struggle to get much anything at all," says Cerny. Once, while briefing a developer on the PS5′s high performance audio processor, he says he was told, "Great, we'll use that unit for AI." During one of his studio tours, Cerny recalled meeting 120 workers — none of whom worked in audio.
 
JigglesBunny

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,301
Chicago
It's so bizarre to me that people just seem to be taking note of this now when it's been an issue in every Ubisoft open world game since Far Cry 3.
 
Lentic

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
This is a problem with many games. I did an experiment a while back where I captured the various game audio and checked the spectrogram. It was surprising to me how much a lot of audio is compressed, especially since many of these games are supposed to be technical showpieces.
 
OutofMana

OutofMana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,123
California
Started it last night after beating Miles Morales. I had to turn down the music volume and turn on the dialogue boost. It's so bad.
 
Rodney McKay

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,295
I thought something about the main character's dialog sounded off when watching the Giantbomb quicklook for Valhalla.

I thought it was just the actor's voice, but maybe it was just the low quality of the recording.

I'm not even that sensitive to audio most of the time, like Dark Souls and Witcher 3 in Switch didn't mind much at all, them being downgraded overall for the Switch maybe made it less of an issue.
AAA games on a brand new console having low quality ANYTHING does make it stand out pretty clearly.
 
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