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Barahir_mjh

Member
Feb 18, 2018
178
The expanded universe sounds like shit but at least it's something of substance. Instead you get terrible producers and writers writing this stuff with little to no refinement before it is put on screen
The EU was a very mixed bag, but some of it is good. And at least in its better moments, it felt like it was trying to both stay true to the universe and do new things. They could have used the EU as a source to mine like Marvel movies do with comics (far as I understand, not much of a comic guy).

Ironically, the sequel trilogy recalls, deliberately or not, some of the stupidest parts of the EU with resurrected Palpatine and zillions of superweapons!
 
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davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,639
www.squackle.com
The EU was a very mixed bag, but some of it is good. And at least in its better moments, it felt like it was trying to both stay true to the universe and do new things. They could have used the EU as a source to mine like Marvel movies do with comics (far as I understand, not much of a comic guy).

Ironically, the sequel trilogy recalls, deliberately or not, some of the stupidest parts of the EU with resurrected Palpatine and zillions of superweapons!

It was probably stupid enough of an idea I wouldn't be surprised if they thought it up by themselves again.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
The EU was a very mixed bag, but some of it is good. And at least in its better moments, it felt like it was trying to both stay true to the universe and do new things. They could have used the EU as a source to mine like Marvel movies do with comics (far as I understand, not much of a comic guy).

Ironically, the sequel trilogy recalls, deliberately or not, some of the stupidest parts of the EU with resurrected Palpatine and zillions of superweapons!

Rey is literally the "Heir to the Empire"
 

spookyduzt

Drive-In Mutant
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,857
You can understand the mindset when there was that article about Kathleen Kennedy saying it's "hard" to make movies with no source material. She is asking for a crutch that actually exists but they willfully eliminated it all before making the sequels. The expanded universe sounds like shit but at least it's something of substance.

And even beyond that, Lucas pitched them his outline for all three films, and Kennedy told him to get lost. All of the ST's story structure problems were completely unforced errors. They could have reused the Thrawn trilogy, or adapted Lucas' outline. Instead we got shit.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,206
FWIW - I think it's telling that the EU books I remember most are the Wrath Squadron books - which is essentially as far as Star Wars went without being about a) bounty hunters and b) Jedi bullshit. Rogue One is probably the closest they came to "adapting" a story in that style.

I assume they didn't want to be bound by the baggage for all their new books and expanded media stuff they wanted to shovel, so I can understand blowing it all up. Probably also avoids having to pay anyone anything for pre-existing ideas too.
 

Sixfortyfive

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,615
Atlanta
You really touched on something here that strikes a major chord with how I feel, overall, about the state of "popular cinema" these days. Brands like the MCU and Star Wars are becoming these well oiled machines of purely manufactured fan-service and are in a constant state of generating self-referential material. The interconnectedness of the Marvel films is what holds me back from being able to appreciate them as anything more than a diversion because everything rings so hollow as every single film has to acknowledge what's come before to some degree or another. This is what plagues Star Wars now.

Nothing feels really genuine or earned, none of it creates a foundation for emotionally grounded storytelling with relatable characters (the odd one aside). That's why the simplicity of The Mandalorian was a really nice way to reacquaint myself with the true spirit of "classic Star Wars" made in the style of a television serial, as Lucas had originally intended when he first set out to make his film.

Shit like The Rise of Skywalker just bombarded the holy hell out of my brain. I watched The Lighthouse and when the opening shots held for several fucking seconds as opposed to cutting to something else in less than a second, I could feel my brain relax.

Mike and Rich really do a good job of elaborating on all of this, here.
I don't think this criticism fits the MCU, and it definitely doesn't fit in the same way that it does for Star Wars.

Take for example Jay's comments about how he didn't care much at all for the Doctor Strange movie but liked the character's appearances in Ragnarok and Infinity War. A huge part of that was because those later supporting roles just let the movies show off the character during "an ordinary day on the job" and don't have to be bogged down by the 100th often formulaic origin story. You get that stuff out of the way with the solo movie, then the character moves on to actually adding some variety to a larger ensemble movie. You don't need to know anything about the Doctor Strange movie in order to appreciate his role or personality in the latter movies either. The MCU builds upon itself like a competent serialized TV show does.
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,639
www.squackle.com
And even beyond that, Lucas pitched them his outline for all three films, and Kennedy told him to get lost. All of the ST's story structure problems were completely unforced errors. They could have reused the Thrawn trilogy, or adapted Lucas' outline. Instead we got shit.

using Lucas' outline, or at least some bastardized version of it, would have given it some legitimacy. they went the way they did with Force Awakens and squandered it by poor decision making.

Kennedy has got to go.
 

SolidChamp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
I don't think this criticism fits the MCU, and it definitely doesn't fit in the same way that it does for Star Wars.

Take for example Jay's comments about how he didn't care much at all for the Doctor Strange movie but liked the character's appearances in Ragnarok and Infinity War. A huge part of that was because those later supporting roles just let the movies show off the character during "an ordinary day on the job" and don't have to be bogged down by the 100th often formulaic origin story. You get that stuff out of the way with the solo movie, then the character moves on to actually adding some variety to a larger ensemble movie. You don't need to know anything about the Doctor Strange movie in order to appreciate his role or personality in the latter movies either. The MCU builds upon itself like a competent serialized TV show does.

I won't disagree with this as it's a good example that applies to me as well. I really liked Strange in Infinity War.
 

DixieDean82

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,837
I liked the Mandalorian but Episode 5 was the biggest Member berries thing Star Wars has ever done. They tore Rogue One apart for shit that was ten times less offence than that crap.
 

DixieDean82

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,837
FWIW - I think it's telling that the EU books I remember most are the Wrath Squadron books - which is essentially as far as Star Wars went without being about a) bounty hunters and b) Jedi bullshit. Rogue One is probably the closest they came to "adapting" a story in that style.

I assume they didn't want to be bound by the baggage for all their new books and expanded media stuff they wanted to shovel, so I can understand blowing it all up. Probably also avoids having to pay anyone anything for pre-existing ideas too.
They were 100% right to nuke that EU crap into orbit. You can always cherry-pick the best parts later on.
 

DixieDean82

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,837
but they didnt even do that. and if they did it was apparently the palpatine commanding a bajillion spacecraft thing
They brought Thrawn back. I'm sure others will follow. Lucasfilm drawing a line and making that stuff non-canon was the only realistic way forward. That shit was one wholly mess that even GL ignored. I don't know if Palpatine's return was based on old canon material. Whatever it was, it didn't work.

I think Lucasfilm pre-Disney used to even have different grades of canon.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
I liked the Mandalorian but Episode 5 was the biggest Member berries thing Star Wars has ever done. They tore Rogue One apart for shit that was ten times less offence than that crap.
Mando's ship was damaged and forced to land at Mos Eisley spaceport. He goes to a bar, and it's the same, yet different, from the place we saw back in 1977. He talks to a guy who's sitting at the table that we know that Han Solo once sat at. And then an entire episode happens which has nothing to do with member berries.

IMO, it's fanservice, but it's done the right way.

That scene in Rogue One where Darth Vader Force Chokes a guy, and then he turns and illustrates "See, I'm going the Force Choke hand thingy" before literally making a pun... that one scene crushes all the fanservice in The Mandalorian combined, if you ask me.
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,044
I'm cool with Episode 5 because I don't even think they explictly even say it's Tatooine explicitly even once, nor do I think it really matters too much for the episode. For the people that don't know what planet it is, it's a different backwater setting than in prior episodes. For people that do, there's even some dialogue noting that the place is infinitely quieter, but even more of a dump after Jabba died, so that actually shows us how the passage of time changed things (which is something I think the Sequel Trilogy did really, really poorly).

Rogue One kinda just shoves stuff in your face all like "HEY GUYS REMEMBER THESE THINGS FROM A NEW HOPE? YOU ALL REMEMBER GOLD LEADER RIGHT?!?!"
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,206
They brought Thrawn back. I'm sure others will follow. Lucasfilm drawing a line and making that stuff non-canon was the only realistic way forward. That shit was one wholly mess that even GL ignored. I don't know if Palpatine's return was based on old canon material. Whatever it was, it didn't work.

I think Lucasfilm pre-Disney used to even have different grades of canon.
Yes, although they were actual clones and Luke was the one who turned Sith.
starwars.fandom.com

Dark Empire

The Dark Empire, also referred to as the Empire Reborn, was a short-lived restoration of the Galactic Empire located in the Deep Core and led by the reborn Emperor Palpatine, also known as the Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Sidious, following the Battle of Endor. The new regime tried to reclaim the...

And even Lucas used it for things like Coruscant.
 

Joeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,478
You say Kyle Katarn is missed in Star Wars.

I say Kyle MacLachlan is missed in Star Wars. Let him play both a really good and a really bad guy. We've seen him do it already!
 

Flipyap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,489
You say Kyle Katarn is missed in Star Wars.

I say Kyle MacLachlan is missed in Star Wars. Let him play both a really good and a really bad guy. We've seen him do it already!
No, no, make him one of them sexy twi'leks. Fishnets, nipples, the whole deal. We've seen him do it already.

IDdnzBS.png
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,683
USA USA USA
how did it take them so long to figure out that it was supposed to be a crime ridden neighborhood

im gonna guess the movie does so much random shit they stopped trying to apply reason and thought to some of the decisions
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
3,726
Germany
Best of the Worst: Wheel of the Worst #18, the Rem Lezar one, was their best video ever due to that segment. Who agrees?

The actual Surviving Edged Weapons training video is a must btw:
 

Joeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,478
Best of the Worst: Wheel of the Worst #18, the Rem Lezar one, was their best video ever due to that segment. Who agrees?

The actual Surviving Edged Weapons training video is a must btw:

The Wheel of the Worst with the Canadians where they did the Osteoporosis Dance, How Can I Tell if I'm Really in Love, and American Flatulators is still the best. The room had never been more full of people and energy.
 

Kevers

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
14,576
Syracuse, NY
The Wheel of the Worst with the Canadians where they did the Osteoporosis Dance, How Can I Tell if I'm Really in Love, and American Flatulators is still the best. The room had never been more full of people and energy.

My only complaint about that episode is Josh yelling in from off camera constantly. Colin dying from laughter is just too good though.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
I know many love the Osteoporosis dance episode, but I actually love the one with the Dolls you can make look like your daughter, and the singing lady with the cow
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,236
I finally watched Rise of Skywalker so I could watch the Half in the Bag. I was very happy to hear them walk back their TLJ hate a bit, even if the best we will probably ever get from them is "at least it had themes"
 

Sixfortyfive

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,615
Atlanta
I finally watched Rise of Skywalker so I could watch the Half in the Bag. I was very happy to hear them walk back their TLJ hate a bit, even if the best we will probably ever get from them is "at least it had themes"
I share a lot of their gripes for the past 2 movies, but at least you can tell that Johnson actually wants to tell a story.

What kind of story does Abrams want to tell beyond "Remember Star Wars?"
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,236
I share a lot of their gripes for the past 2 movies, but at least you can tell that Johnson actually wants to tell a story.

What kind of story does Abrams want to tell beyond "Remember Star Wars?"

I really have no idea, I was one of the people who walked out of TFA on release day asking why people were so happy that JJ just remade ANH and walked out of TLJ on release day hopeful for the IP and the new direction. If I remember correctly I even posted a few months ago saying JJ was just going to pull an Into Darkness with this one and tank the ST... but I think this is even worse than that.

At least we've got The Mandolorian now
 

StallionDan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,705
TROS had too much to do, TLJ basically left nothing to continue with and made the main character a nobody. I think both films are responsible for TROS being bad as you can just watch TFA and TROS and miss out on barely anything. TLJ is an awful middle film. TROS is also bad for other reasons too though.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,068
TFA: Basically a remake of ANH, well executed
TLJ: Tried some bold and exciting things, poorly executed at times (I think they nailed the Luke and Kylo stuff. Everything else... ehhhhh)
TROS: Didn't try anything new or exciting, basically a remake of ROTJ, poorly executed mess
 
OP
OP
Skiptastic

Skiptastic

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,699
TROS had too much to do, TLJ basically left nothing to continue with and made the main character a nobody. I think both films are responsible for TROS being bad as you can just watch TFA and TROS and miss out on barely anything. TLJ is an awful middle film. TROS is also bad for other reasons too though.
Can't disagree with this sentiment more. They had Kylo now as the Supreme Leader but he could still be a wreck. Rey has clarity around her parents but learns she doesn't need to be "somebody" to be important. The Resistance has the spark it needs to recruit support after the Starkiller Base attack and abandonment on Crait, thanks to Luke.

TLJ was a great film by itself, and is only made an awful middle film because of what JJ and Terrio did with TROS.
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Yeah, I don't think they were joking in the first black spine edition about Peter James Iengo having to bring his unsold DVDs up from the cellar.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Can't disagree with this sentiment more. They had Kylo now as the Supreme Leader but he could still be a wreck. Rey has clarity around her parents but learns she doesn't need to be "somebody" to be important. The Resistance has the spark it needs to recruit support after the Starkiller Base attack and abandonment on Crait, thanks to Luke.

TLJ was a great film by itself, and is only made an awful middle film because of what JJ and Terrio did with TROS.

The plot to go with was obvious: Ben, son of the rebellion heroes, ditches everyone and his family out of fear of not living up to their fame, and falls to the dark side while doing so, whereas orphaned nobody Rey finds her place and becomes a hero. Two journeys that can cross in an interesting way. They completely screwed that up.