Sadly, the imperialist crimes in Israel in 48 and 67 cannot be undone, that's not how the world works. Just like the US can't be undone for it's imperialist past. The future is towards amends- And yes, that means Israel will have to account for these crimes, but calling for the expulsion of millions is not a path towards that.
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The violence coming from Israel isn't only towards Hamas though, which I feel the framing kinda implies. Though they do acknowledge that Israel is killing people so I'll give them that.
Israel will not be satisfied until they own 100% of what is left of Palestine, and they will expel or murder all Palestinians, and no one will do a thing to stop it. You will see it for yourself, and I hope you remember this thread when you do.
People need to understand that there is no one state, two people; or two state solution, as far as Israel is concerned, and there never will be. If thr only options to choose between are, the extermination of the native Palestinian people, and the dismantling of the illegal occupation, the only choice is the end of the illegal occupation. The only way that happens is if Zionists are kicked out.
Some of you keep on dreaming, or maybe you have your head in the clouds, if you think that the Zionists will leave any Palestinian alive, or leave them any land whatsoever. Wake up.
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I am actively fighting, along with others, to make sure that doesn't happen. I've demonstrate in the West Bank against the border wall, I got shot rubber bullets at alongside Palestinian comrades, I feared for my life when a group of far-right Zionists beat up leftists on the street in 2014. I'm not saying these things to brag or show my big activist dick or whatever - These things are the bare minimum I can do as an Israeli. I'm saying it because - you can't teach me about what's going on here, I'm living through it. If Israel eradicates all the Palestinians, I'll be eradicated with them - while you'll still sit in whatever country you live in and watch it on the news, so I'm not really in the mood to get lectures on what's the solution from someone not actively living this situation.
Can't you see that mass extermination of the Palestinian people should never have been on the table in the first place?
Eid al Fitr mubarak to all my bros and sis in Palestine.
كل عام و انتم بخير
Israel flag burnings in front of Synagogues (in my city), stones being thrown at a Synagogue, demonstrators chanting "Fuck Jews" in front of Synagogues.
All in the last days here in North-Rhine-Westphalia (Germany).
This is pure antisemitism and it makes me sick and angry.
All in the last days here in North-Rhine-Westphalia (Germany).
This is pure antisemitism and it makes me sick and angry.
Seriously?
If you wanted to burn an Israeli flag because Bibi's bombing Gaza to stay in power, then do so at the fucking embassy, not at a synagogue who doesn't exactly have the ability to influence Bibi to begin with.
And maybe starting a riot in Germany against Jews who don't have any influence over Bibi isn't exactly the best way to make Netanyahu stop.
I am not versed in the german twittersphere, so are there even dissenting voices by known leftists? Most of the posts I've seen are takes like the one you posted.
I don't know how you think I don't see it, as I said I'm fighting against it every way I can.
I hope some of you will find this interesting:
I'd also like to recommend https://www.middleeasteye.net in general for good reporting on the wider region.
Not perfect, nothing ever will be, but I respect the work they're doing.
I'd also like to recommend https://www.middleeasteye.net in general for good reporting on the wider region.
Not perfect, nothing ever will be, but I respect the work they're doing.
If i ever met you in real life, I'll give you a big hug and a kiss to say thank you for helping my brothers and sisters. From an outsider's perspective, you and others like you keep our hopes alive that co-existence is possible. YOU are their hope.
Those wanting Israel's destruction must realise that is not the right path forward now. Palestine-Israel is the land for the believers and as long as there are Israelis and Palestinians who continue to believe in Justice, that dream will come.
I honestly believe that the Israel wants to eradicate all Palestinians. If the only option to stop that is the dismantling of Israel, then so be it.
I've never said that Jewish should not live there. What I said was that they should leave the illegal occupation. If they then re-enter legally, I honestly have no problem with that at all. All Jewish people and their descendents that lived in Palestine before 1948, should be allowed to stay, as they were residing legally.
Yeah the BBC gets a lot of flak, but the actual coverage is pretty good. They played a lengthy interview with a Palestinian guy who's house was almost blown up mid-way through the interview on the World Service a couple of nights ago. The saddest part was how apologetic the guy was that he had to cut it short to go and look after his kids :(
I thought this was a good (brief) intro which I'd like to see more of:
Obviously it's only 4 minutes so doesn't go into everything, but from the cursory stuff I know/have been reading in recent days, it's much better than what some other commentators are putting out
Obviously it's only 4 minutes so doesn't go into everything, but from the cursory stuff I know/have been reading in recent days, it's much better than what some other commentators are putting out
Hear hear!
Defending Israel at this stage, a country committing genocide TODAY, is disgusting!
Fuck Israel! Fuck colonialism! Fuck imperialism! Fuck capitalism!
Sigh disgusting
Nah not from the moderate (mainstream) left you can't really criticize Israel no matter what, it's always a shit show and you end being called a antisemit every time and if not that they just tell you to stfu because of our history it's fucking ridiculous and it's not just Twitter it's everywhere.
Nah not from the moderate (mainstream) left you can't really criticize Israel no matter what, it's always a shit show and you end being called a antisemit every time and if not that they just tell you to stfu because of our history it's fucking ridiculous and it's not just Twitter it's everywhere.
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I mean I'm german so I kinda know about this. I just assumed that maybe some people on twitter took a more nuanced approach
Thank you, I appreciate that. Nothing can undo the past, but we can hopefully build a better future out of it. I wait for the day you and all Palestinian could come back here and we can live here together.
Thank you, I hope so as well.
I absolutely expect her to surface in the Sam Harris and Bill Maher sphere as if she's an "expert" on this issue, continuing to normalize the entire false view that's already made this topic "complex."
Only one group here has intentionally bombed children and complained about being filmed sniping civilians, and it's not Hamas. I'm sure she'd blow a gasket at the apartheid assertions, too.
It breaks my heart seeing many of my left-leaning friends on FB sporting "I stand by Israel FOREVER!" profile pic overlays. These are people who did everything they could to ensure Biden was elected, but truth in politics doesn't matter to them when it comes to Israel. To them, Israel can do no wrong, even if the truth of their horrifying wrongdoings are shown to them in irrefutable fashion.
They'll just shout "ISRAEL WOULDN'T DO THAT!" My heart breaks all around over this.
They'll just shout "ISRAEL WOULDN'T DO THAT!" My heart breaks all around over this.
Not that i know of and it's pretty clear what would happen to them so even if some of them think like that they will most likely just keep their mouth shut, that's just how the moderates are. But still there are plenty of normal people leftists or not calling this out and trying to inform others.
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That video sucks, plenty of toned down tepid both sides language.
"Clashes at Al Aqsa" bullshit, security forces attacked the mosque unprovoked during prayers.
"Lawsuit the Palestinians believe" bullshit, it is forced displacement.
And a ton of "both sides".
The amount of tone down language downplaying Isreali aggression makes me sick video makes me sick.
Do me a favor and take it down.
Compared to how the BBC (and the majority of western news outlets) usually reports on Israel/Palestine, at least on their website news articles, it's not as bad as it could have been.
Local news showed the Al Jazeera (?) segment when the Al Shorouk tower got hit. It looked like the crew was filming on another building and you can really hear the terror in the reporter's voice when the missile hit and she was told to climb down, but then she seemed to compose herself and turn the camera towards the tower. Reporters are brave, man.
Via BBC liveblog
Abd Elkader, 26, works in Haifa - a city with a mixed Arab and Jewish population.
"People here are not feeling safe at all," he told BBC OS on World Service radio.
"I've notified my employer that I won't be able to take the 30 minute drive to work. You cannot know when you'll face a lynch attempt similar to the scenes we've seen in several cities. People are not feeling safe even in their homes.
"This time of year we're supposed to be enjoying our time celebrating Eid al-Fitr, especially in a beautiful city like Haifa. But apparently not this time."
Awful, to not feel safe enough to even go to work or to be in your home.
Isn't there a risk that if this civilian violence continues to spread, it seriously risks the wider long term prospects for the country itself? I mean, it's far from a Jewish-Israeli only population so if tensions get even worse then how do you come back from that?
I know there have always been tensions, but this feels and looks like it's on another scale - concerning if it reaches a tipping point so to speak.
Abd Elkader, 26, works in Haifa - a city with a mixed Arab and Jewish population.
"People here are not feeling safe at all," he told BBC OS on World Service radio.
"I've notified my employer that I won't be able to take the 30 minute drive to work. You cannot know when you'll face a lynch attempt similar to the scenes we've seen in several cities. People are not feeling safe even in their homes.
"This time of year we're supposed to be enjoying our time celebrating Eid al-Fitr, especially in a beautiful city like Haifa. But apparently not this time."
Awful, to not feel safe enough to even go to work or to be in your home.
Isn't there a risk that if this civilian violence continues to spread, it seriously risks the wider long term prospects for the country itself? I mean, it's far from a Jewish-Israeli only population so if tensions get even worse then how do you come back from that?
I know there have always been tensions, but this feels and looks like it's on another scale - concerning if it reaches a tipping point so to speak.
The power imbalance is in Israel's favour. It is solely in their power to end this.
They won't though, colonisers gotta colonise.
The BBC video is shit, as always when it comes to the region. A faux sprinkling of both sides, when all the power lies with Israel in this situation.
They won't though, colonisers gotta colonise.
The BBC video is shit, as always when it comes to the region. A faux sprinkling of both sides, when all the power lies with Israel in this situation.
How is it extremist. Do you think it's ok that people can come and just steal your house with a pathetic claim that the land belongs to them because of some rubbish that happened over a century ago?
It really is that simple. Israel can choose. It's all up to them (and daddy USA). They simply choose violence.
I think this is really important to remember if we're ever talking about why the American populace seems to go along with USA's position in the genocide, and why things seem like they're baked in here when talking about the overall oppression.
This is on purpose ofc. The more you obfuscate and mislead, the more you can shut down criticism and prevent those pesky "why are we doing this or allowing it to happen with our aid and resources" questions.
There was a 1991 study done following the Gulf War where they talked about the same media affect here and how it lies to the masses to manufacture consent for war and bloodshed.
Tell me if any of this 30 year old shit doesn't sound really familiar to what's going on today.
If it seems like people are apathetic to Palestinians and Israel's ongoing ethnic cleansing, it's because it's by design - a very calculated, well-researched, and well practiced design.
We can also skip all niceties and just call it what it is - indoctrination. The story isn't that Americans or others don't care enough to want positive change, it's that we've been indoctrinated and lied to since coming out of the womb.
It's why it's the responsibility of all those living in enabling countries to point out this constant stream of indoctrination and manufactured consent for genocide; and then directly call out all enablers.
Maybe we might see some positive movement then, and Israel will no longer be able to hide behind the status quo.
This is on purpose ofc. The more you obfuscate and mislead, the more you can shut down criticism and prevent those pesky "why are we doing this or allowing it to happen with our aid and resources" questions.
There was a 1991 study done following the Gulf War where they talked about the same media affect here and how it lies to the masses to manufacture consent for war and bloodshed.
The Gulf War: A Study of the Media, Public Opinion and Public (study and data) | Cultural Indicators
Tell me if any of this 30 year old shit doesn't sound really familiar to what's going on today.
If it seems like people are apathetic to Palestinians and Israel's ongoing ethnic cleansing, it's because it's by design - a very calculated, well-researched, and well practiced design.
We can also skip all niceties and just call it what it is - indoctrination. The story isn't that Americans or others don't care enough to want positive change, it's that we've been indoctrinated and lied to since coming out of the womb.
It's why it's the responsibility of all those living in enabling countries to point out this constant stream of indoctrination and manufactured consent for genocide; and then directly call out all enablers.
Maybe we might see some positive movement then, and Israel will no longer be able to hide behind the status quo.
Tension exists for decades.
Netanyahu still can't form a majority coalition, but the opposition are in talks with each other.
Government backed settlers begin to deport a Palestine community in east Jerusalem and it starts to go viral.
Protests begin.
Israeli forces attack prayers in the al aqsa mosque in the most holy night for muslims.
Escalations begins and Hamas starts to attack from Gaza.
It does. The tensions were never like this before. Things are insane right now. There is no police on the streets, complete and utter chaos. There were 4 lynches yesterday - on both Jews and Arabs. My mother is from Lod, she used to sleep over her Palestinian friends when she was small. Jews (mostly of Arabic origin) and Arabs lived in these cities for decades with no issues. But in the last few days militant settlers who never lived in Lod are coming by the bus load to incite violence. My father's Synagogue in Jaffa had a Molotov thrown at it.
I should note the violence is not symmetrical, the Jewish extremists are backed by the Israeli government in many ways - But no one feels safe on the streets today. Everything just feels hopeless to me right now.
that sounds awful :( I hope the situation improves for you and for everyone who is being impacted
i don't get it, is there no Israeli left or peace faction? it seems that the discourse is dominated by the right internationally.
There is.
The issue is the right wing and zionist factions are the ones in power and dominate. The government is on their side as well.
It is a shit show. Even Jews are being attacked by idiots who target people who look "Palestinian".
The fact Netanyahu and his goons are just sitting on their asses is fucking up the whole country. In Palestina side and in Israel side. It is basically the wild west.
This point has been circulating in probably every Palestine thread on this site, but people need to understand that ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, apartheid and occupation aren'tt because an extreme right wing party is in power. This has been the policy of every "Israeli" goverment since 48, left or right doesn't matter, in fact the Nakba which was the biggest ethnic cleansing of Palestinians was committed by leftist coalition of "Israeli" founding fathers or whatever they were called.
Even the pm that was hailed for reaching for peace (Yitzhak Rabin), did commit atrocities against Palestinians and Arabs.
So the problem isn't with Netanyahu, it is with Israel.
It's very much intentional as well. A lot of these right wing strongmen operate with the same playbook, just different tweaks to it.
This is, but ever since Rabin was assassinated and the peace process in the 1990s fell apart, the far right has dominated Israeli politics.
To put things into perspective, the Israeli Labor Party (which was where Rabin came from) went from 44 seats in 1995 to 7 now.
The twisted irony is that both the Israeli far-right and Hamas are hopelessly entangled as they legitimise the other faction to the Palestinians and Israelis respectively.
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That's true for '48, which Israel will need to answer to. But we can't skip two steps here, I think. first, we must deal with the more immediate injustice of '67 (which was also done by the Zionist left BTW, which is not the only left in Israel BTW.) On that front, we can somewhat cooperate currently with the Zionist left (as was personified by Yitzhak "we need to break their arms and legs" Rabin.)
After we're done with the military occupation of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza, we need to deal with the civilian occupation in the rest of the land.
There was a report that Hamas was willing to come to a peace deal and Israel threw it down and is preparing to invade Gaza so please take your both sides shit somewhere else.