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NexusCell

Member
Nov 2, 2017
858
Scott knew for over a year about what Alax did & still went through with the cameo, not to mention trying to silence Bobdunga. This is the first step towards taking responsibility for his actions, but this is the absolute bare minimum. Scott still signal-boosted a rapist, & he needs to publicly take full responsibility for that. This isn't something he can just quietly sweep under the rug & move on.
I'm 100% positive he could have literally done nothing and it would have been swept under the rug. Literally the only places that were talking about this were here, Gamerghazi, and maybe some low upvote tweets. If you look at his recent Youtube and socialblade, he's gained 40k suscribers in June alone. Heck, actually removing Alax, even if he doesn't mention it, is just reigniting the discussion.

Either it seems some people around Scott convinced him to cut ties with Alax or Scott learned about some nonpublic info about Alax that would make him even look worse.
 

HMS_Pinafore

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
Straya M8
Scott knew for over a year about what Alax did & still went through with the cameo, not to mention trying to silence Bobdunga. This is the first step towards taking responsibility for his actions, but this is the absolute bare minimum. Scott still signal-boosted a rapist, & he needs to publicly take full responsibility for that. This isn't something he can just quietly sweep under the rug & move on.
My comment was in no way defending what Scott has done, I'm just becoming more and more uncomfortable with the way we involve ourselves into people's lives we don't personally know.

This isn't a "cancel culture thing". Looking at Scott's view counts it's clear he hasn't been "cancelled". But this is a delicate situation, and while I hope he does privately make things right with the victim, not everything about these peoples lives need to be publicly announced and displayed for our curiosity and amusement.

But this is a topic that deserves its own thread as it's way larger in scope than just Scott.
 

Benzychenz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,485
Australia
This doesn't really mean anything unless he actually says something.

For all we know he just deleted the video to make the criticism go away.
 

Calvertutrp

Member
Dec 4, 2020
328
My comment was in no way defending what Scott has done, I'm just becoming more and more uncomfortable with the way we involve ourselves into people's lives we don't personally know.

This isn't a "cancel culture thing". Looking at Scott's view counts it's clear he hasn't been "cancelled". But this is a delicate situation, and while I hope he does privately make things right with the victim, not everything about these peoples lives need to be publicly announced and displayed for our curiosity and amusement.

But this is a topic that deserves its own thread as it's way larger in scope than just Scott.
No one made him publicly be friends with a rapist I dunno what you're talking about
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,546
This doesn't really mean anything unless he actually says something.

For all we know he just deleted the video to make the criticism go away.
I don't think so. It doesn't seem like the criticism even mattered. It didnt' hurt his subscriber count, no one is talking about it in his comments. It made zero impact at all really.

But he did it anyway, which I think COULD be seen as a positive.

Unless the comments earlier in the thread are true, and Relax Alax has actually done more worse things that Scott has recently become privy to.

Either way, I think if Scott really means to do better, he needs to start with Bobdunga.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
86,249
Houston, TX
I'm 100% positive he could have literally done nothing and it would have been swept under the rug. Literally the only places that were talking about this were here, Gamerghazi, and maybe some low upvote tweets. If you look at his recent Youtube and socialblade, he's gained 40k suscribers in June alone. Heck, actually removing Alax, even if he doesn't mention it, is just reigniting the discussion.

Either it seems some people around Scott convinced him to cut ties with Alax or Scott learned about some nonpublic info about Alax that would make him even look worse.
The public info was already pretty damning. And given how he tried to silence Bobdunga when she tried to warn him (who probably gave him information on the matter), the only scenario I can think of is if he was facing internal pressure to distance himself from Alax given how the likes of Tama cut ties with Scott for his actions.

Commonly known or not, he still signal-boosted a rapist. And as I said before, this is only the first step toward taking responsibility for his actions. This alone is not enough.


I don't think so. It doesn't seem like the criticism even mattered. It didnt' hurt his subscriber count, no one is talking about it in his comments. It made zero impact at all really.

But he did it anyway, which I think COULD be seen as a positive.

Unless the comments earlier in the thread are true, and Relax Alax has actually done more worse things that Scott has recently become privy to.

Either way, I think if Scott really means to do better, he needs to start with Bobdunga.
Alax is a rapist, that's already really bad. But yes, he still needs to make a public & sincere apology to Bobdunga.
 

chaobreaker

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,629
So you can edit YouTube videos after publishing them? I never knew you can do that. I just assumed you have to upload a fresh video without retaining your views and comments.

Looks like editing the video disables the live chat.
 

NexusCell

Member
Nov 2, 2017
858
The public info was already pretty damning. And given how he tried to silence Bobdunga when she tried to warn him (who probably gave him information on the matter), the only scenario I can think of is if he was facing internal pressure to distance himself from Alax given how the likes of Tama cut ties with Scott for his actions.

Commonly known or not, he still signal-boosted a rapist. And as I said before, this is only the first step toward taking responsibility for his actions. This alone is not enough.

Alax is a rapist, that's already really bad. But yes, he still needs to make a public & sincere apology to Bobdunga.
If he does make an apology, I don't expect that he will post it publicly. I'm pretty sure if he does apologize to Bobdunga he'll do it through private DMs.
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,546
If he does make an apology, I don't expect that he will post it publicly. I'm pretty sure if he does apologize to Bobdunga he'll do it through private DMs.
Personally I don't think Scott owes US a public apology. If he apologizes to Bobdunga that's what actually matters.
Making it right to the victims is more important that a public showing imo
 

Seafoam Gaming

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,729
If he does make an apology, I don't expect that he will post it publicly. I'm pretty sure if he does apologize to Bobdunga he'll do it through private DMs.

And to be blunt, seeing how he's a private person, that's perfectly reasonable if Raven's OK with it (and doesn't sense/feel that it's just an easy cop out): I'll be looking to see what Raven thinks, tbh, since she's the one I trust most of anyone involved here, and if she accepts an apology, even a private one, then I say it's good.

It's a bit much I feel to insist people be 100% public about every little thing when some stuff is better handled in private, though. People really do forget that Scott literally never uses his twitter or socials for much of anything besides automatic video updates and super rare collab announcements, to the point he got hacked on Twitter due to how barren the protection was on it. It's not like someone bigger like say Alpharad who posts on twitter daily about a variety of things and it would make sense to expect someone who's public to go public.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
86,249
Houston, TX
If he does make an apology, I don't expect that he will post it publicly. I'm pretty sure if he does apologize to Bobdunga he'll do it through private DMs.
Personally I don't think Scott owes US a public apology. If he apologizes to Bobdunga that's what actually matters.
Making it right to the victims is more important that a public showing imo
Given everything Scott did in trying to silence Bobdunga, it should be a public apology. Not just in apologizing to Bobdunga, but also to condemn Alax in the strongest terms as well as taking responsibility for Scott's own actions. That being said, if a private apology is enough for Bobdunga, great. But given what Scott has done, I personally don't think it is. Regardless, that's ultimately Bobdunga's call.

And to be blunt, seeing how he's a private person, that's perfectly reasonable if Raven's OK with it: I'll be looking to see what she thinks, tbh, since she's the one I trust most of anyone involved. It's a bit much I feel to insist people be 100% public about every little thing when some stuff is better handled in private.
Like I said above, it's Raven's call if she's okay with it or not. As with similar situations, the victim should have the final say. If Scott made a sufficient apology to Raven, great. But even then, he should still publicly condemn Alax.
 

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Member
May 9, 2020
12,698
So you can edit YouTube videos after publishing them? I never knew you can do that. I just assumed you have to upload a fresh video without retaining your views and comments.

Looks like editing the video disables the live chat.
You can only cut sections of a video out.

You can not add extra to a video or something more fancy
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,546
Given everything Scott did in trying to silence Bobdunga, it should be a public apology. Not just in apologizing to Bobdunga, but also to condemn Alax in the strongest terms as well as taking responsibility for Scott's own actions. That being said, if a private apology is enough for Bobdunga, great. But given what Scott has done, I personally don't think it is. Regardless, that's ultimately Bobdunga's call.


Like I said above, it's Raven's call if she's okay with it or not. As with similar situations, the victim should have the final say.
How did Scott try to silence Bobdunga? I must be missing something. I know he unfollowed them.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
86,249
Houston, TX
How did Scott try to silence Bobdunga?
Scott was warned by Bobdunga over a year ago (likely through DMs) about what Alax did. After ignoring Bobdunga, Scott unfollowed her since she could only DM him if he was following her. I was able to confirm this with Bobdunga herself & mentioned this in the original thread linked in the OP. This isn't a situation where Scott just wasn't aware of Alax's actions.
 

Skyscourge

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 7, 2020
1,863
Given everything Scott did in trying to silence Bobdunga, it should be a public apology. Not just in apologizing to Bobdunga, but also to condemn Alax in the strongest terms as well as taking responsibility for Scott's own actions. That being said, if a private apology is enough for Bobdunga, great. But given what Scott has done, I personally don't think it is.
Scott hasnt silenced anyone, he literally did nothing until now. Blocking someone isnt silencing them. And i dont know why it needs to be a public apology, unless you need it to have a clear conscience to continue watching his content. What matters is the victims feel like they been done right by him.
 

Seafoam Gaming

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,729
Given everything Scott did in trying to silence Bobdunga, it should be a public apology. Not just in apologizing to Bobdunga, but also to condemn Alax in the strongest terms as well as taking responsibility for Scott's own actions. That being said, if a private apology is enough for Bobdunga, great. But given what Scott has done, I personally don't think it is. Regardless, that's ultimately Bobdunga's call.


Like I said above, it's Raven's call if she's okay with it or not. As with similar situations, the victim should have the final say.

Yeah, exactly. She's the one that I'd trust more than anyone and if she is given a fake apology or just a non-answer one that's basically "sorry you felt that way" then that would piss me off immensely. She's the one hurting the most and not even the only victim of Alax's abhorrent behavior, (don't forget Aurum and others who dealt with Alax's control freak nature) so honestly I'd hope for a big push for helping her out on scott's end.

How did Scott try to silence Bobdunga? I must be missing something. I know he unfollowed them.

IIRC, he cut off communication with her by unfollowing and ignored her concerns entirely
 

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Member
May 9, 2020
12,698
I wonder if we will get more details at some point or will everyone involved stay incredible silent.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
I feel like he should say something. Not grovel or anything just acknowledge the situation

e: for example i see a lot of posts about him trying to make it right but nobody actually knows if that's why he did it because he hasn't said anything about it

I believe Scott has said he really does not like making statements because he feels like he will just make things worse by doing so. This was about less serious topics, but I can see how a situation like this he'd be worried he says the wrong thing.

The fact that he did the right thing without trying to advertise it as him being such a good person sounds to me like he probably just wanted to look into what his friend was accused of.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
86,249
Houston, TX
Scott hasnt silenced anyone, he literally did nothing until now. Blocking someone isnt silencing them. And i dont know why it needs to be a public apology, unless you need it to have a clear conscience to continue watching his content. What matters is the victims feel like they been done right by him.
And we don't know if that's the case. Given how she spoke out about what Scott did, I feel like she would've said something if Scott at least made a good effort to make amends. But as it stands now, we can't say that what Scott did to atone is enough. Either way you slice it, he took a rapist's side over the victim (despite said victim's warnings) & signal-boosted the former.

As mentioned earlier, it's ultimately Raven's call if Scott truly took responsibility for his actions. But as it stands right now, this is only the first step of what must be done to do right by the victim.


I believe Scott has said he really does not like making statements because he feels like he will just make things worse by doing so. This was about less serious topics, but I can see how a situation like this he'd be worried he says the wrong thing.

The fact that he did the right thing without trying to advertise it as him being such a good person sounds to me like he probably just wanted to look into what his friend was accused of.
Scott had a year to look into the situation after Raven warned him about it & he still took Alax's side. There's no "afraid of making things worse" here. Scott fucked up royally & he needs to take responsibility for it in a way that Raven feels is sufficient.
 

NexusCell

Member
Nov 2, 2017
858
Given everything Scott did in trying to silence Bobdunga, it should be a public apology. Not just in apologizing to Bobdunga, but also to condemn Alax in the strongest terms as well as taking responsibility for Scott's own actions. That being said, if a private apology is enough for Bobdunga, great. But given what Scott has done, I personally don't think it is.
I mean, unfollowing her isn't exactly silencing her. He didn't prevent her from speaking out against Alax. Personally I see it as that Scott trusted Alax more then Raven, which is shitty on his part. Raven is the only one who deserves a direct apology and I don't need to be a witness to that. If she wants to publicly talk about Scott again she can do it when she feels comfortable about it.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
This is my view of it as well, Scott could have just continued to ignore the controversy as it had all but gone away outside of a few people bringing it up on twitter and sites like Era. People acting like Scott "took to long on this" probably need to consider the human element here. It's always easy for outsiders to say "the person should have known/this took to long/etc", but it's a lot harder when suddenly it's you and your best friend or close family member and they've been accused of something awful.

Exactly this.

Like, what exactly are people thinking Scott took a month to do exactly here? Just...wait until suddenly he decides to change his mind? Like, "hmm, okay a month's long enough, time to cut ties." Or more realistically he's very busy (the guy goes to school full time while also pumping out videos he puts a lot of work into), and he's having to grapple with verifying something about someone who was a close friend to him.

People just don't allow others to be human beings ever. I've been close friends with someone who turned out to be shitty. I did not turn around and cut ties in a day. Losing a friend to being shitty can be like losing someone who has died. What kind of weirdo has friendships so weak that they don't struggle over the rationalizing and loss that comes with something like that. I don't know if these people were really close, or what the situation is, but that's just it, I don't know, so I don't immediately pronounce him shitty if it took him some time to work through.

Scott had a year to look into the situation after Raven warned him about it & he still took Alax's side. There's no "afraid of making things worse" here. Scott fucked up royally & he needs to take responsibility for it in a way that Raven feels is sufficient.

He absolutely does need to, but if so, that should be between him and Raven. Not us.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
86,249
Houston, TX
I mean, unfollowing her isn't exactly silencing her. He didn't prevent her from speaking out against Alax. Personally I see it as that Scott trusted Alax more then Raven, which is shitty on his part. Raven is the only one who deserves a direct apology and I don't need to be a witness to that. If she wants to publicly talk about Scott again she can do it when she feels comfortable about it.
But he did shut her out from trying to speak the truth to him, which is very much a form of victim-silencing.
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,546
I mean, unfollowing her isn't exactly silencing her. He didn't prevent her from speaking out against Alax. Personally I see it as that Scott trusted Alax more then Raven, which is shitty on his part. Raven is the only one who deserves a direct apology and I don't need to be a witness to that. If she wants to publicly talk about Scott again she can do it when she feels comfortable about it.
Basically this in its entirety. This isn't a show for the internet. This is about the victim, and the best thing that Scott can do imo is to make a sincere (and private) apology to Bobdunga. Its up to Bobdunga whether she feels that is adequate.

Although publicly calling out RelaxAlax would be a welcome step in the right direction too.
 

Skyscourge

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 7, 2020
1,863
And we don't know if that's the case. Given how she spoke out about what Scott did, I feel like she would've said something if Scott at least made a good effort to make amends. But as it stands now, we can't say that what Scott did to atone is enough. Either way you slice it, he took a rapist's side over the victim (despite said victim's warnings) & signal-boosted the former.

As mentioned earlier, it's ultimately Raven's call if Scott truly took responsibility for his actions. But as it stands right now, this is only the first step of what must be done to do right by the victim.
I guess im ultimately not that invested in how Scott comes out of this. If he publicly apologizes, or if the victims chime in and puts out a good word for him, then great. If not, then Ill continue to ignore his content. I dont feel any need to demand that out of him, or be a witness to it I guess.
 

Calvertutrp

Member
Dec 4, 2020
328
Exactly this.

Like, what exactly are people thinking Scott took a month to do exactly here? Just...wait until suddenly he decides to change his mind? Like, "hmm, okay a month's long enough, time to cut ties." Or more realistically he's very busy (the guy goes to school full time while also pumping out videos he puts a lot of work into), and he's having to grapple with verifying something about someone who was a close friend to him.

People just don't allow others to be human beings ever. I've been close friends with someone who turned out to be shitty. I did not turn around and cut ties in a day. Losing a friend to being shitty can be like losing someone who has died. What kind of weirdo has friendships so weak that they don't struggle over the rationalizing and loss that comes with something like that. I don't know if these people were really close, or what the situation is, but that's just it, I don't know, so I don't immediately pronounce him shitty if it took him some time to work through.



He absolutely does need to, but if so, that should be between him and Raven. Not us.
he had more than a month to cut ties with alax, alax has been known as a rapist for over a year, like alax being scum isnt new info
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
86,249
Houston, TX
he had more than a month to cut ties with alax, alax has been known as a rapist for over a year, like alax being scum isnt new info
Actually, the info about Alax being a rapist was out there since 2019. It just didn't become common knowledge until last year along with the outing of other predators in the Smash community. But yeah, Scott knew over a year ago that Alax was a rapist.
 

Calvertutrp

Member
Dec 4, 2020
328
Actually, the info about Alax being a rapist was out there since 2019. It just didn't become common knowledge until last year along with the outing of other predators in the Smash community. But yeah, Scott knew over a year ago that Alax was a rapist.
Even worse than I thought but yeah Scott didnt find out about Alax on the day he released the video is the point
 

Scrappy-Fan92

Member
Jan 14, 2021
9,090
Color me surprised he even did this bare minimum thing. Makes me wonder what spurred the removal of the cameo.
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,546
Slightly off topic, but I just looked at RelaxAlax's subscriber count, and I'm disgusted it hasn't dropped more tbh.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
he had more than a month to cut ties with alax, alax has been known as a rapist for over a year, like alax being scum isnt new info

God you people are impossible to help see perspectives other than your own.

I know that.

I am not justifying what Scott did. I'm saying shit's way more complicated than "know thing, do thing." Because there are many degrees of knowing, and believing and understanding, especially if this is your first time being betrayed by your friend being a shitty person. Have you been through that? I have. Hell I've gone through that rationalization process with someone who sexually assaulted me. I was the victim. And it took me years. Ya'll do not have any capacity for empathy about the completely fucked, imperfect nature of human beings. You sit here hyperanalyzing a few outside details and have no idea of the situation, emotions, or knowledge, manipulation, or all kinds of messy bullshit that happens to real people, especially when it's their first time dealing with a horrible topic and have their basic human instincts of ignore and rationalize take over to carry them through.

How about let people grow as they figure this shit out, because it's not that easy. And if it is that easy for you, I doubt how seriously close you are to any of your friends.

Absolutely none of what I'm saying is defending Scott here. What I am saying is it's incredibly easy for you to be judgmental about people you don't know, and it's super hypocritical, because the moment any person talking like this gets into a situation this messy for the first time, especially if it's a situation they've not thought through before, they are going to act just as imperfectly. It's fundamentally a toxic, immature way to look at other human beings. Like, it's just gossip, fundamentally.

Human beings are not rational.

And again, you guys talk about people doing bad things as if they can't learn and grow. Like there's this arbitrary window of "mistake" and then it becomes, well he had long enough. I mean, that's only true if something was a mistake. But sometimes, and I'm gonna blow your mind, people make bad decisions, and then they eventually learn to be different. And being toxic and still condemning them does not help the world, it just asks the world to stay how it is, because everyone, always, is going to be shitty.

I'm so tired of this "is this person a good person who made a mistake, or are they a bad person." There is no such real world dichotomy. That is not how human beings work.

I got OUT of conservativism because of this moralistic implasticity.

The correct way to respond to someone taking extra long to do the right thing is, "good, now clean up the rest that still needs cleaning."

That's it. I'm not saying there should be a bend of standards. I'm not saying he gets off with no responsibility. What I'm saying is "well too late" is a hypocritical, completely unempathetic, shitty, childish, and proud as fuck attitude.

It's funny because I'm just going to get responses of people who didn't read anything I wrote and go "yeah, but Scott still hasn't done everything he needs to do. He doesn't have any excuse."

Yes. He doesn't have any excuse. I said that. I also said he still needs to do better and apologize to those he ignored.

But you don't do that by saying that because he took too long to be better, his being better is worthless. Because if that's the case, why, realistically, should he bother continuing to grow? He's already been condemned. You've made up your mind. He's not a real, plastic human being like you are. He's a character who is a bad guy now. That's all he is.

It's a childish, myopic, immature, proud view.
 

Calvertutrp

Member
Dec 4, 2020
328
God you people are impossible to help see perspectives other than your own.

I know that.

I am not justifying what Scott did. I'm saying shit's way more complicated than "know thing, do thing." Because there are many degrees of knowing, and believing and understanding, especially if this is your first time being betrayed by your friend being a shitty person. Have you been through that? I have. Hell I've gone through that rationalization process with someone who sexually assaulted me. Ya'll do not have any capacity for empathy about the completely fucked, imperfect nature of human beings. You sit here hyperanalyzing a few outside details and have no idea of the situation, emotions, or knowledge, manipulation, or all kinds of messy bullshit that happens to real people, especially when it's their first time dealing with a horrible topic and have their basic human instincts of ignore and rationalize take over to carry them through.

How about let people grow as they figure this shit out, because it's not that easy. And if it is that easy for you, I doubt how seriously close you are to any of your friends.

Absolutely none of what I'm saying is defending Scott here. What I am saying is it's incredibly easy for you to be judgmental about people you don't know, and it's super hypocritical, because the moment any person talking like this gets into a situation this messy for the first time, especially if it's a situation they've not thought through before, they are going to act just as imperfectly. It's fundamentally a toxic, immature way to look at other human beings. Like, it's just gossip, fundamentally.

Human beings are not rational.

And again, you guys talk about people doing bad things as if they can't learn and grow. Like there's this arbitrary window of "mistake" and then it becomes, well he had long enough. I mean, that's only true if something was a mistake. But sometimes, and I'm gonna blow your mind, people make bad decisions, and then they eventually learn to be different. And being toxic and still condemning them does not help the world, it just asks the world to stay how it is, because everyone, always, is going to be shitty.

I'm so tired of this "is this person a good person who made a mistake, or are they a bad person." There is no such real world dichotomy. That is not how human beings work.

I got OUT of conservativism because of this moralistic implasticity.

The correct way to respond to someone taking extra long to do the right thing is, "good, now clean up the rest that still needs cleaning."

That's it. I'm not saying there should be a bend of standards. I'm not saying he gets off with no responsibility. What I'm saying is "well too late" is a hypocritical, completely unempathetic, shitty, childish, and proud as fuck attitude.

It's funny because I'm just going to get responses of people who didn't read anything I wrote and go "yeah, but Scott still hasn't done everything he needs to do. He doesn't have any excuse."

Yes. He doesn't have any excuse. I said that. I also said he still needs to do better and apologize to those he ignored.

But you don't do that by saying that because he took too long to be better, his being better is worthless. Because if that's the case, why, realistically, should he bother continuing to grow? He's already been condemned. You've made up your mind. He's not a real, plastic human being like you are. He's a character who is a bad guy now. That's all he is.

It's a childish, myopic, immature, proud view.
You said alot of words to reply to something I didnt say at all, Im correcting you for saying he only took a month to do it when he actually took over a year

Also yes I did go through a friend being a sex pest and I have also been abused so I dunno what your point was
 

Grugga Pug

Member
Nov 5, 2017
444
God you people are impossible to help see perspectives other than your own.

I know that.

I am not justifying what Scott did. I'm saying shit's way more complicated than "know thing, do thing." Because there are many degrees of knowing, and believing and understanding, especially if this is your first time being betrayed by your friend being a shitty person. Have you been through that? I have. Hell I've gone through that rationalization process with someone who sexually assaulted me. I was the victim. And it took me years. Ya'll do not have any capacity for empathy about the completely fucked, imperfect nature of human beings. You sit here hyperanalyzing a few outside details and have no idea of the situation, emotions, or knowledge, manipulation, or all kinds of messy bullshit that happens to real people, especially when it's their first time dealing with a horrible topic and have their basic human instincts of ignore and rationalize take over to carry them through.

How about let people grow as they figure this shit out, because it's not that easy. And if it is that easy for you, I doubt how seriously close you are to any of your friends.

Absolutely none of what I'm saying is defending Scott here. What I am saying is it's incredibly easy for you to be judgmental about people you don't know, and it's super hypocritical, because the moment any person talking like this gets into a situation this messy for the first time, especially if it's a situation they've not thought through before, they are going to act just as imperfectly. It's fundamentally a toxic, immature way to look at other human beings. Like, it's just gossip, fundamentally.

Human beings are not rational.

And again, you guys talk about people doing bad things as if they can't learn and grow. Like there's this arbitrary window of "mistake" and then it becomes, well he had long enough. I mean, that's only true if something was a mistake. But sometimes, and I'm gonna blow your mind, people make bad decisions, and then they eventually learn to be different. And being toxic and still condemning them does not help the world, it just asks the world to stay how it is, because everyone, always, is going to be shitty.

I'm so tired of this "is this person a good person who made a mistake, or are they a bad person." There is no such real world dichotomy. That is not how human beings work.

I got OUT of conservativism because of this moralistic implasticity.

The correct way to respond to someone taking extra long to do the right thing is, "good, now clean up the rest that still needs cleaning."

That's it. I'm not saying there should be a bend of standards. I'm not saying he gets off with no responsibility. What I'm saying is "well too late" is a hypocritical, completely unempathetic, shitty, childish, and proud as fuck attitude.

It's funny because I'm just going to get responses of people who didn't read anything I wrote and go "yeah, but Scott still hasn't done everything he needs to do. He doesn't have any excuse."

Yes. He doesn't have any excuse. I said that. I also said he still needs to do better and apologize to those he ignored.

But you don't do that by saying that because he took too long to be better, his being better is worthless. Because if that's the case, why, realistically, should he bother continuing to grow? He's already been condemned. You've made up your mind. He's not a real, plastic human being like you are. He's a character who is a bad guy now. That's all he is.

It's a childish, myopic, immature, proud view.
I completely agree with you. There's not much "thinking" going on here with too many topics like this beyond the end of either spectrum.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
You said alot of words to reply to something I didnt say at all, Im correcting you for saying he only took a month to do it when he actually took over a year

Also yes I did go through a friend being a sex pest and I have also been abused so I dunno what your point was

I'm addressing the notion of "well, it was actually more than a month so he has no excuse" as if the time matters at all.

It doesn't. He didn't do the right thing, and he took too long to do the right thing, but he has now, and that is good. Both the bad fact and good fact exist. Correcting me about the month thing doesn't really matter and misses my point, which is why I responded that way.

And I was addressing the topic of Scott taking a month to fix the video to what it should have been when he released it.

I completely agree with you. There's not much "thinking" going on here with too many topics like this beyond the end of either spectrum.

Exactly. People just want to know what folder to put someone in. That's it. It literally is that banal.
 

Calvertutrp

Member
Dec 4, 2020
328
I'm addressing the notion of "well, it was actually more than a month so he has no excuse" as if the time matters at all.

It doesn't. He didn't do the right thing, and he took too long to do the right thing, but he has now, and that is good. Both the bad fact and good fact exist. Correcting me about the month thing doesn't really matter and misses my point, which is why I responded that way.
I mean the right thing would to be apologize
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
I mean the right thing would to be apologize

Right so like what I said then yeah

There are multiple right things. He did a wrong thing by making a collab video with a rapist. He also did another, separate bad thing to someone he needs to apologize for. I have covered both of these. And I've made it clear via context which I'm talking about.
 

dgamemaster

Member
Jun 29, 2020
1,023
And we don't know if that's the case. Given how she spoke out about what Scott did, I feel like she would've said something if Scott at least made a good effort to make amends.

I don't necessarily think she needs to speak publically about Scott making amends. It would be nice to see some kind of public acknowledgement of amends being made, but I'm not entirely sure it is necessary. I think if they make amends in private, it is still perfectly fine. I don't know if it's right to assume that someone would make a public statement about someone apologizing to them unless said apology was not genuine or something. If an apology was genuine enough, there's no need to have that be carried out in public.

I do think Scott should condemn Alax in public, but the apology side of things doesn't need to be carried out in public. It doesn't matter what I think ultimately, the important thing is that the victim feels alright about all this.

The correct way to respond to someone taking extra long to do the right thing is, "good, now clean up the rest that still needs cleaning."

That's it. I'm not saying there should be a bend of standards. I'm not saying he gets off with no responsibility. What I'm saying is "well too late" is a hypocritical, completely unempathetic, shitty, childish, and proud as fuck attitude.

Yes, people are allowed to grow out of their mistakes and stuff, but people also have the authority to decide if they want to continue to support creators or not. If they think it's too late for him to change, then that's something that they made the choice about, it's not like Scott will personally get sad at the loss of that particular viewer. You don't have to step in and say "actually you need to do this" in regards to situations like that. It is their personal choice. Saying it's too late to change is wrong, but so is not permitting people to make their own decisions about which content creators to support or not. I don't get irrationally angry at people for saying "it's too late" for Scott, it is their choice to keep watching or not.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
So why are you acting like he's already done the right thing

Jesus Christ dude. I am not.

There are multiple things we are discussing that he did wrong. He did a right thing. There is another right thing he still needs to do.

I literally called you out in that long post that you would ignore that I've said that, and here you are doing it. Fucking hell.

Yes, people are allowed to grow out of their mistakes and stuff, but people also have the authority to decide if they want to continue to support creators or not. If they think it's too late for him to change, then that's something that they made the choice about, it's not like Scott will personally get sad at the loss of that particular viewer. You don't have to step in and say "actually you need to do this" in regards to situations like that. It is their personal choice. Saying it's too late to change is wrong, but so is not permitting people to make their own decisions about which content creators to support or not. I don't get irrationally angry at people for saying "it's too late" for Scott, it is their choice to keep watching or not.

"Have the authority" is such a silly, pompous thing to say.

Your decisions are your own. Yeah. You can support who you want and don't want. I'm still going to think people who have this shitty black and white view of the world are immature and annoying.

Even if JonTron suddenly fixed his views and realized his mistake, I would also be too uncomfortable to watch him. But I would not justify that with weird inhuman, unrealistic moralisms. I would say "You know, he's really still very associated in my mind with alt-right toxicity and to me, that's not something I can just forget. So I'm glad he changed; good for him. I hope he keeps growing, but I can't emotionally get over that association." Hell I wouldn't even say that, I would just...not watch him, because frankly I find that really weird. I wouldn't go to a forum and start proclaiming how "Well, I still think he's shitty, so, fuck him still." That, to me, just seems like a weirdly extremely narcissistic thing to do.

I find that pompous, superior attitude annoying. Not the choice not to watch Scott. I have no reason to care. Do what makes you comfortable, and support people you believe deserve it. It's not my business who you believe that is. What I find annoying is this weird judgemental culture, because I'm sensitive to that kind of thing, because I specifically have done my best to leave a very conservative world, because fundamentally, it operated on the same binary, unempathetic view of human beings.
 
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MrWindUpBird

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,686
And again it's not like anyone is saying: "Forgive him as if nothing happened". No one is saying that.

But for some there is no such thing as: "Getting better." No such thing as: "Doing better". Once you do one bad thing, you're tainted forever.

It is incredibly super massively toxic and there is not even a hint of self awareness of it.
The issue with this kind of attitude that you're taking here is that people are upset because this is 1) the bare fucking minimum he could in this situation and 2) he completely ignored evidence from one Alex's victims a fucking year before the video went up and his course of action there was to completely ignore it. That's shitty behavior, full stop, and quietly removing the part of the video that the creep was in without actually acknowledging the fuck up is really all the proof you need that he only did this because the heat was on him.

As for the posters acting like people are "micromanaging" how someone should act, maybe your boy shouldn't have signal boosted a rapist? Just a thought.
 

DoradoWinston

Member
Apr 9, 2019
6,619
God you people are impossible to help see perspectives other than your own.

I know that.

I am not justifying what Scott did. I'm saying shit's way more complicated than "know thing, do thing." Because there are many degrees of knowing, and believing and understanding, especially if this is your first time being betrayed by your friend being a shitty person. Have you been through that? I have. Hell I've gone through that rationalization process with someone who sexually assaulted me. I was the victim. And it took me years. Ya'll do not have any capacity for empathy about the completely fucked, imperfect nature of human beings. You sit here hyperanalyzing a few outside details and have no idea of the situation, emotions, or knowledge, manipulation, or all kinds of messy bullshit that happens to real people, especially when it's their first time dealing with a horrible topic and have their basic human instincts of ignore and rationalize take over to carry them through.

How about let people grow as they figure this shit out, because it's not that easy. And if it is that easy for you, I doubt how seriously close you are to any of your friends.

Absolutely none of what I'm saying is defending Scott here. What I am saying is it's incredibly easy for you to be judgmental about people you don't know, and it's super hypocritical, because the moment any person talking like this gets into a situation this messy for the first time, especially if it's a situation they've not thought through before, they are going to act just as imperfectly. It's fundamentally a toxic, immature way to look at other human beings. Like, it's just gossip, fundamentally.

Human beings are not rational.

And again, you guys talk about people doing bad things as if they can't learn and grow. Like there's this arbitrary window of "mistake" and then it becomes, well he had long enough. I mean, that's only true if something was a mistake. But sometimes, and I'm gonna blow your mind, people make bad decisions, and then they eventually learn to be different. And being toxic and still condemning them does not help the world, it just asks the world to stay how it is, because everyone, always, is going to be shitty.

I'm so tired of this "is this person a good person who made a mistake, or are they a bad person." There is no such real world dichotomy. That is not how human beings work.

I got OUT of conservativism because of this moralistic implasticity.

The correct way to respond to someone taking extra long to do the right thing is, "good, now clean up the rest that still needs cleaning."

That's it. I'm not saying there should be a bend of standards. I'm not saying he gets off with no responsibility. What I'm saying is "well too late" is a hypocritical, completely unempathetic, shitty, childish, and proud as fuck attitude.

It's funny because I'm just going to get responses of people who didn't read anything I wrote and go "yeah, but Scott still hasn't done everything he needs to do. He doesn't have any excuse."

Yes. He doesn't have any excuse. I said that. I also said he still needs to do better and apologize to those he ignored.

But you don't do that by saying that because he took too long to be better, his being better is worthless. Because if that's the case, why, realistically, should he bother continuing to grow? He's already been condemned. You've made up your mind. He's not a real, plastic human being like you are. He's a character who is a bad guy now. That's all he is.

It's a childish, myopic, immature, proud view.
facts.

this goes for a shit ton of this internet stuff too.
Its actually both hilarious and sad how when take a step back and see whats going on the comments from people online (not talking only about online forums but social media too)
its incredibly toxic the comments that come from "level headed people"

inb4 they say anyone who isnt jumpin on it is a fan or some shit which for the record I had to google who the person was lmao
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
The issue with this kind of attitude that you're taking here is that people are upset because this is 1) the bare fucking minimum he could in this situation and 2) he completely ignored evidence from one Alex's victims a fucking year before the video went up and his course of action there was to completely ignore it. That's shitty behavior, full stop, and quietly removing the part of the video that the creep was in without actually acknowledging the fuck up is really all the proof you need that he only did this because the heat was on him.

If he was able to ignore it for a month after it had already completely died down and only existed in a tiny corner of the internet most of his viewership isn't even aware of, what the fuck are you talking about "Because the heat was on him"?

As for the posters acting like people are "micromanaging" how someone should act, maybe your boy shouldn't have signal boosted a rapist? Just a thought.

The problem with this is you're fundamentally trying to make this a tribalistic thing. Not everyone thinks that way. He's not "your boy." Someone could just as well say these things and not watch him. This is really silly thinking. Maybe some people just find the criticism legitimately toxic. This really comes off as projecting dude, like you're on "#TeamFuckScott." That's really weird. There's no teams here.
 

Ashlette

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,254
At least it's better than doubling down, apologizing for being overtly shitty (meaning that they will simply keep their shittiness under wraps), or sicking their fan base to anyone who calls them out.

I think he can still redeem himself. Might be a mountain climb for him given

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EDIT: gave him too much of a benefit of a doubt. of course my male privilege allows that.
 
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Calvertutrp

Member
Dec 4, 2020
328
Jesus Christ dude. I am not.

There are multiple things we are discussing that he did wrong. He did a right thing. There is another right thing.

I literally called you out in that long post that you would ignore that I've said that, and here you are doing it. Fucking hell.
No one in this thread said Scott isn't doing the right thing but the bear minimum doesn't absolve him of criticism
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
No one in this thread said Scott isn't doing the right thing but the bear minimum doesn't absolve him of criticism

A heck of a lot of people are basically making it out to be completely worthless the change he made, which I find toxic.

I don't understand what's so difficult about saying, "Good, he did the right thing. Now he still has an apology to go make. Hope he does."

Because "Fuck him, too little too late." is just like. Okay? Good for you? Hope you never do anything shitty in your life?

Not sure how else to emphasize the difference here. One is the mature way to handle shit like this. The other just seems like weird ...self gratification over moral superiority to me.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,481
He absolutely does need to, but if so, that should be between him and Raven. Not us.
No. People with large platforms don't get to platform assholes then whisper the apology in private. He owes her a personal apology. And he owes the public one as well. I doubt he'll be doing either, however.
 
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