Should Persona 5 Royal remove the problematic stuff in this new version?

Oct 31, 2017
161
Yes.

What I don't understand is how the devs don't realise how the LGBT representation and jokes undermines whats always seemed to be themes of the Persona series. A group of people that feel unwelcome by society, taking off the mask of society and getting those around you to accept who they are.. it's always part of Persona. By mocking LGBT Persona 5 just completely flops on its thematic front. 'Be true to yourself! Unless your this... Or this....'. 'Rise together through society's constraints!!! Oh no not you you're just a joke and defs not welcome'. Like, it isn't just problematic, it actively ruins the narrative and motifs it tries to ride on.
 

1000% H

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,076
If they don't want to remove the problematic gay dudes because of the clear homophobia, they should at least still remove them because they literally don't fit into the rest of the game.

They were just wheeled in and out a couple of times and didn't lead to anything worthwhile. P5 definitely needed to trim some fat and if P5R is gonna add even more they better cut some stuff for the sake of the game's quality. THIS SHIT SHOULD BE THE FIRST TO GO.

Honestly don't have much hope for the Ann stuff changing because that would require Atlus to change it on purpose.
 

OwOtacon

Alt Account
Banned
Dec 18, 2018
2,394
Yes, but they're almost certainly going to double down because Atlus hates women, LGBT people, and competent writing.
 

Glass Arrows

Member
Jan 10, 2019
929
Can we all just stop with the “it’s just Japan” bullshit? Japanese LGBT community exists and raised concerns about those issues as well. Don’t erase the existence of progressive, feminist and queer representation in Japan.
Um, I wasn't trying to imply otherwise? I've made that very same point about the japanese LGBT+ community multiple times in the past, I was just responding to the context of western players trying to forward complaints to Atlus USA so the japanese offices can become aware of them (i.e they probably don't care what we think). Maybe I should have been clearer about this in my initial post by saying they've been ignoring the japanese LGBT+ community's complaints for years now too, and that the best thing to do in regards to this situation is to try and elevate their voices where possible (as I've seen multiple activists suggest).
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,298
Yes. Editing is good and exists for a reason. If Atlus proper is too bone-headed to fix their mistakes, then at the very least, the localization team should step in and fix their mess.
 

Shanaynay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,219
2020? But the entire game is already localized! How long could it take them to localize whatever’s new which can’t possibly be that much, right?
I have no idea why, they might be re-recording everything to accomodate the new character. Just hoping they can get the same English voice actors for the new stuff too.
 

Illusion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,001
Yes and yes.

The homophobia, guys talking about Ann, all of it. Just remove it and don't bother trying to "fix it" the writing team has shown they are not the right people to handle those themes.
 

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,873
Wonder if it would be changed in the International versions?

It definitely won't change in the Japanese version but I think if the point was made/they get reminded that people were not ok with it, then maybe.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,819
The English Wilderness
Yes.

What I don't understand is how the devs don't realise how the LGBT representation and jokes undermines whats always seemed to be themes of the Persona series. A group of people that feel unwelcome by society, taking off the mask of society and getting those around you to accept who they are.. it's always part of Persona. By mocking LGBT Persona 5 just completely flops on its thematic front. 'Be true to yourself! Unless your this... Or this....'. 'Rise together through society's constraints!!! Oh no not you you're just a joke and defs not welcome'. Like, it isn't just problematic, it actively ruins the narrative and motifs it tries to ride on.
Persona is simply too scared of alienating its core audience to actively engage with the themes it wants to address. Business, at the end of the day, trumps all.
 

Yukari

Member
Mar 28, 2018
2,661
Thailand
Unlikely That Atlus gonna remove or Sega Force them to fo do that.
LGBT stereotypes character are like common on japan media

Puri-Puri-Prisoner from one punch man is one of them.
 

JinxMonsoon

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13
Um, I wasn't trying to imply otherwise? I've made that very same point about the japanese LGBT+ community multiple times in the past, I was just responding to the context of western players trying to forward complaints to Atlus USA so the japanese offices can become aware of them (i.e they probably don't care what we think). Maybe I should have been clearer about this in my initial post by saying they've been ignoring the japanese LGBT+ community's complaints for years now too, and that the best thing to do in regards to this situation is to try and elevate their voices where possible (as I've seen multiple activists suggest).
Oh God, sorry! >.< I’m dumb. I apologize for calling you out and I thank you for calmly explaining that. >__>

When it comes to Persona 4, playing through it as a queer teen and slowly realizing that Kanji’s story is *not* a story about accepting your queerness, in fact, that the director was clearly homophonic, was fucking heartbreaking. Like watching a car crash in slow motion. I don’t even understand how can you weave a story about accepting yourself and fighting against the society’s constraints and just pour this amount of ignorance and hatred into it.

I’ve become so edge about Japanese games since then, that I when I realized what The MISSING is *truly* about I was shocked and felt racist for not expecting a queer story from Japan.
 

KojiKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,185
Of course they should! Persona 5 has very little outright awful content to remove... It could be done with absolutely no one even realizing it was there to begin with if they hadn't played it before. This is a very very easy win for them, so I look forward to seeing how they screw this up and somehow make it worse (I'm guessing it'll be a beauty pageant and a trans woman will be one of the contestants and she'll be shamed off the stage)
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
3,147
They should, but like many here how Atlus handled Catherine: Full Body does not fill me with a lot of confidence.
 

PaperSparrow

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
278
Yes.

What I don't understand is how the devs don't realise how the LGBT representation and jokes undermines whats always seemed to be themes of the Persona series. A group of people that feel unwelcome by society, taking off the mask of society and getting those around you to accept who they are.. it's always part of Persona. By mocking LGBT Persona 5 just completely flops on its thematic front. 'Be true to yourself! Unless your this... Or this....'. 'Rise together through society's constraints!!! Oh no not you you're just a joke and defs not welcome'. Like, it isn't just problematic, it actively ruins the narrative and motifs it tries to ride on.
Yup. P5 is maddening on how it doesn't understand its own core theme, or refuses to understand it in the name of tropes.

Man, certain people have it bad in society, huh? Haha, gay men are sexual predators! Also, isn't it funny your friend is being harassed by them? Leering at our female friend is ok because we aren't a teacher in a position of power, I guess? Oh wait, teachers dating students is A-Ok!

Like, what they hell are you trying to say when your message goes all over the place?
 

Zubz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,558
no
After Catherine doubled down, I doubt they will, & I'll continue to not buy the game as a result.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,724
Should they? Absolutely! But the question for them will not be "Should we?" but rather "Do we have to?" and, in that regard, not toning them down likely won't reduce critical reception or sales so I'm doubtful that they'll do it
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,981
They absolutely should because I won't be buying it otherwise. But I doubt Hashino is the only one to blame at Atlus. I have a feeling there's a boy's club there that shares Hashino's garbage, regressive views and it's going to take a lot of work and a hit to the bank account -- and perhaps only with Sega's intervention -- to clean house there.
 

Curufinwe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,029
I can't speak to the thread titler but I saw it as a decent way of forming a blanket statement to include both the homophobic incidents and, say, the kinda misogynistic stuff that happens to Anne. Or, for that matter, the teacher romance stuff
Those are three different issues, though. I don’t think a thread asking if Atlus should remove the Kawakami romance from the game for being “problematic” would have everyone saying yes.
 

Lumi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,593
It would’ve been acceptable if it wasn’t something the protagonist and Ryuji forced upon her. Her telling the guys to fuck off, then she could say she absolutely won’t do it but she has a secret plan and the decision to enact her plan would be hers and not the protags.

Don’t change the layers and layers of jumpers / sweaters joke and Ann suggested and enacted the jumper joke infiltration herself with no sexual harassment.

Granted I can’t remember what else happens with Yusuke but I don’t remember him forcing her to strip for him? If he does then it would’ve needed more editing.

Ideally I would want them to remove or modify the gay couple to not be homophobic, with Ann the sexual harassment has got to go and I think the game would be a lot more palatable for me.
This is what's so frustrating about Ann. A femme fatale is supposed to have agency and control, but they insisted on making Ann submissive at every turn.
 

PaperSparrow

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
278
You're saying "but think of the overpriced merchandise sales!".
Yeah... fanservice dollars are more important than the core theme, that much is clear.

I still can't get over how tacky that looks. Like, if you just have to do a sexy figure, "chick and motorcycle" can be done so much better.
This is what's so frustrating about Ann. A femme fatale is supposed to have agency and control, but they insisted on making Ann submissive at every turn.
They undercut Ann's character for the sake of embarrassment being "cute". I mean, Makoto already takes the "embarrassed about outfit" slot, so the need to repeat it with the femme fatale is not only dumb, it's redundant.
 

DVCY201

Member
Oct 25, 2017
888
Honestly, I wish the story in P5 was more nuanced to actually include these issues in the main story, especially when it's about "society and rebellion". They'll double down instead.