Shut the fuck up about how you won't be "bullied" to just vote for the Democrat no matter who: Trump threatens to cut funding to Cali over Abortion
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I think the only real thing separating Bloomberg from Trump is A Woman's right to choose. If Trump is wins abortion will become strictly a state level issue at best. Trump's next Supreme Court justices(yea he'll probably appoint 2 more) will be very conservative. And even if we get a socialist in 2024, the Supreme Court will completely fuck over anything remotely progressive.
With that said, I understand that the harm a Bloomberg administration would otherwise cause would completely alienate people on the left. The dude sucks. He better not win the primary somehow.
With that said, I understand that the harm a Bloomberg administration would otherwise cause would completely alienate people on the left. The dude sucks. He better not win the primary somehow.
To all people willing to vote Bloomberg because he switched his red hat to blue:
I assume by default that anyone with this stance uses the N-word when no black people are present.
Yep, we all hate black people cause we might vote some one over Trump (if that is the choice we are given, Trump or Bloomberg) that at worst is no better than trump on one issue (several really).
Yep, the world is that simply black and white and people are just that simple.
You sure you aren't a Republican with that very black and white vision you have? Republicans are notorious about wanting to think of the world in very simplistic terms.
Agreed, this -- and much much more -- are the stakes.
"But she'll compromise on medicare for all, and I'm sorry but I won't vote for someone who compromises with conservatives -- that makes them just as bad!" Okay, well then you'll get no medicare for all and you'll get women being forced into allies to get abortions.
Sanders is currently the front-runner, and of all of the Democratic candidates to be the front-runner thus far he's probably my least favorite choice, but fuck it, should a majority of Democrats think that Sanders is the best candidate to represent the Democratic party come this summer into fall, then I'm all in on Sanders.
It's one reason why I've refused to "pick a side" in this primary because I don't want tribalistic bull shit to disqualify a candidate for me, and have my negativity around that candidate to be infectious like what happened in 2016. I've weighed in on who I like or don't like, but I'm not getting tribalistic about it. There's a couple I deeply dislike, but hell even them I'd come around if by some miracle either of them won.
... except for Tulsi Gabbard, fuck Tulsi Gabbard.
"But she'll compromise on medicare for all, and I'm sorry but I won't vote for someone who compromises with conservatives -- that makes them just as bad!" Okay, well then you'll get no medicare for all and you'll get women being forced into allies to get abortions.
Sanders is currently the front-runner, and of all of the Democratic candidates to be the front-runner thus far he's probably my least favorite choice, but fuck it, should a majority of Democrats think that Sanders is the best candidate to represent the Democratic party come this summer into fall, then I'm all in on Sanders.
It's one reason why I've refused to "pick a side" in this primary because I don't want tribalistic bull shit to disqualify a candidate for me, and have my negativity around that candidate to be infectious like what happened in 2016. I've weighed in on who I like or don't like, but I'm not getting tribalistic about it. There's a couple I deeply dislike, but hell even them I'd come around if by some miracle either of them won.
... except for Tulsi Gabbard, fuck Tulsi Gabbard.
Yep, but they'll deny, deny, deny. Climate change ALONE should be enough reason...
So, if it is Bloomberg vs. Trump, who would you want me to vote? Don't tell me not to vote, that's voting for whoever is worse in that scenario.
We're talking about a future scenario where that is the choice. There is not a third choice. You guys are acting like I want bloomberg. I fucking don't. I am just saying that in the case of it ends up like that, I'm voting for the lesser evil.A nd it's fucking bullshit to say I don't care about minorities just cause I voted the lesser evil.
Bloomberg would absolutely not follow through with his transparent dem roleplay if in office nor will he undo any of the damage wrought by Trump that would stengthen other branches and diminish the executive. Donnie has done the work for him and ripped the whole thing open and there is no logical reason to expect this racist sexist plutocrat will lift a finger to close it, rather than bask in and expand it.
Maybe black people are just tired of always taking second/third/800th position in all the hypotheticals AND the realities.
Maybe you don't hate us, but you certainly value us less.
I feel like this thread either needs to be updated or locked because of bloomberg. his presence in this race and his national rise in polling changes the tone of what's being said and I doubt the OP would stand by the message of this thread pertaining to bloomberg
I've resigned myself to lesser-evil voting for nearly as long as I've been of age, and decided long ago in this primary I would vote for whoever the eventual nominee, even if it were someone I vehemently disliked, like Biden, Pete, or Harris. That said, if Bloomberg were the nominee, it would really test this idea. Not sure what I would do.
Tigress I just want to be clear in that my posts aren't directed at a voter such as yourself. You haven't (to my knowledge) attempted to shame or accost black voters' for not wanting to bargain away their humanity for the sake of Bloomberg.
My barbs/vitriol are definitely more pointed towards the people who dare to that very thing, whilst arguing some nonexistent difference between Bloomberg and Trump with regard to anti-black racism DESPITE what the former was able to get away with in a proclaimed left-leaning city. At that point you're blatantly flaunting you don't give a shit about the totality of humanity black Americans/immigrants are giving up by voting against their self-preservation, largely because those policies won't affect you.
My barbs/vitriol are definitely more pointed towards the people who dare to that very thing, whilst arguing some nonexistent difference between Bloomberg and Trump with regard to anti-black racism DESPITE what the former was able to get away with in a proclaimed left-leaning city. At that point you're blatantly flaunting you don't give a shit about the totality of humanity black Americans/immigrants are giving up by voting against their self-preservation, largely because those policies won't affect you.
If you vote for Bloomberg you are helping a racist take over the closest thing to a progressive party the US has. I'm not sure why electing him President is preferable when he is nearly as bad as Trump anyways and he would be drastically changing the future of the Democratic party for the worse.
No, I think the way it is just shows why it shouldn't be so clear cut to everyone to vote Democrat no matter what. Factors changing show that such a blanket statement probably shouldn't be made so trivially for everyone.
If it makes you feel better, I value people less in general. My top priorities are environment and endangered species (neither of which I think Bloomberg cares about). But, really... what am I supposed to do in the case of Bloomberg vs. Trump even if my top concern was minorities? It's not like Trump is better. It's not like there are some things BLoomberg at least wouldn't do better. It's not like they are the same. One clearly has a few things he would do better (Even if they aren't top priority, it's something).When the other candidate is absolutely horrible and representing a party that has become absolutely horrible I don't feel we have the luxury of worrying about if our top priority is addressed. We need to get the absolutely horrible one out of power.
If nothing else, I think BLoomberg would be less likely to encourage racists to be so damned blatant about it. I think they've gotten pretty brazen under Trump and he outright encourages it. I think Bloomberg at least would have to pretend not to encourage it (trump certainly doesn't or barely tries) and at least make some effort to discourage it (even if it is only strongly worded lectures). So, I think even Bloomberg is slightly better than Trump even in that regard. If nothing else cause he would probably at least feel compelled that he had to look like he cared.
And, as I said, I really hope it doesn't come down to Bloomberg.
This thread stems from abortion rights, which Bloomberg does support. He sucks pretty much every other way, but women's reproductive rights aren't some small issue and they disproportionately affect minorities too.
Bloomberg versus Trump is a worse case scenario. It's frightening the discussion is even happening.
I'd advise you not to vote for Bloomberg, but vote for local elections as you would. Just not for the president(in the event that Bloomberg wins the nom, which I don't think will happen anyway)
Bloomberg would be worse than Trump. This isn't hard. He already has a past record in an official capacity filled with horrible issues against the marginalised.
Take it out of your mind that he's the lesser evil, that shit isn't true.
More often than not, he and Trump are friends. They're of the same kind.
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This is a garbage thread just as I've come to expect from this ideological cesspool. There isn't even an argument here, just straight up browbeating.
We don't need to run hypothetical scenarios about what Bloomberg would be like in power, he's a 3-term mayor in NYC that presided over and energetically implemented mass racial profiling and incarceration, islamophobic spying and harassment, and accelerated the process of dispossession, homelessness and gentrification currently on rampage in NYC. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
If your entire analysis of our political conjuncture boils down to "Trump bad" while ignoring the ways in which Democrats have prepared the way for him politically, then, and I say this as a lifelong resident of NYC and a victim of stop and frisk you need to shut the fuck up.
We don't need to run hypothetical scenarios about what Bloomberg would be like in power, he's a 3-term mayor in NYC that presided over and energetically implemented mass racial profiling and incarceration, islamophobic spying and harassment, and accelerated the process of dispossession, homelessness and gentrification currently on rampage in NYC. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
If your entire analysis of our political conjuncture boils down to "Trump bad" while ignoring the ways in which Democrats have prepared the way for him politically, then, and I say this as a lifelong resident of NYC and a victim of stop and frisk you need to shut the fuck up.
Why are people in this thread speaking like Bloomberg is going to be the nominee?
The only way I can see that happening is if the DNC collectively decides he's their guy at the National Convention.
At that point, we'll have to worry about what this means for democracy more than Billionaire v Billionaire: Dusk of Justice.
The only way I can see that happening is if the DNC collectively decides he's their guy at the National Convention.
At that point, we'll have to worry about what this means for democracy more than Billionaire v Billionaire: Dusk of Justice.
i agree with you. if you make an all-or-nothing statement like the thread title, then you're prepared for all-or-nothing. end of story
but for pretty much this entire primary, unless you thought tulsi would gain support, the sentiment of this thread was 100% on point. if you were having misgivings about biden, butti, klob, etc. vs. trump that's a huge problem that deserves to be called out. bloom makes this much more complicated and almost the opposite to where if you have no misgivings about voting for bloom that's probably a bigger problem than the reverse
sure but I doubt the OP would be ok with telling people to shut the fuck up and vote blue if they were to express concerns about bloomberg
the entire context of this thread is different now
There are people who support him. My mom (who I was shocked) has him now as her top choice. Granted it is because she hates Sanders (She sees him as narcissitic as Trump) and she just wants whoever is most likely to beat him.... but I am still shocked she supports him. She's always been a Democrat, almost as much as my dad is a die hard Republican. But I'm beginning to think she's more "moderate" than I give her credit for between this and me having to convince her to support Warren over Biden. So... don't think he doesn't have some supporters out there. This forum is not indicative of all Democrats.
At best I convinced her to at least vote for Sanders if it is he who wins and hope for the best (at one point she was threatening not to vote if it was Sanders). And by hope for the best for her that would be Sanders actually keeps his word and isn't just trying to get popularity by saying what people want to hear.
And I mean there probably are going to be people in the Democrat Party who Sanders is a little too left for who might be kinda like my mom except they want Bloomberg because the see him as the more moderate choice and see it being down to Bloomberg vs. Sanders (honestly my mom has convinced me that Sanders probably is narcissistic but I'd still take him over Bloomberg).
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I feel like this is getting silly. The checks that CAN exist to a Bloomberg presidency CANNOT exist on a Trump 2nd term presidency. What choice would I realistically have? Vote out the person who showers in his hatred of brown latinos or vote for someone who is the direct reason I've been stop and frisked 7 different times and had my car searched at a routine random stop for no reason other than profiling(though is jus the shitty NYPD doing its thing). I don't have a great answer to this, but I know the only answer I can give involves doing what I can to get rid of the person who's national identity is built on the back of spitting on our people and detaining them like animals.
If you think I'm off base let me know. I'm open to listening.
Should note I find this extra silly as I see no viable way for this guy to nab the nomination.
this feels like dumb fight for trump to start during an election year
i really hope it backfires on him
i really hope it backfires on him
A lot of people who're supporting Bloomberg are doing so because of his ads, the money he's spending is giving him insane exposure.
I'm not going to insult folks who're sitting at home watching TV and thinking Bloomberg might be the one.
I'd aim my anger at politicians who've sold out for a quick buck, legitimising Bloomberg's platform in the race.
His exposure isn't going to last anyway, his performance in the debates and the narrative that 'he might be the one to beat Trump' is dwindling.
This is a Bernie or Biden race at the end of the day, and many will be comfortable voting for either.
I'm not going to insult folks who're sitting at home watching TV and thinking Bloomberg might be the one.
I'd aim my anger at politicians who've sold out for a quick buck, legitimising Bloomberg's platform in the race.
His exposure isn't going to last anyway, his performance in the debates and the narrative that 'he might be the one to beat Trump' is dwindling.
This is a Bernie or Biden race at the end of the day, and many will be comfortable voting for either.
You know what? You make a good point. There is no defending the piece of excrement that is Bloomberg. What a miserable scenario this would be.
Democrats do support him because they hate Trump just that much that they're willing to elect someone who is honestly worse than Trump is a considerable number of ways (for one, he cares about policy while Trump is just there to get back at everyone who wronged him and play golf under the government's dime) just to get him out of office.
He's also bought a lot of the Democratic Party by donating large sums of money to them and their organisations. A good number of mayors would have received city improvement grants from him. Its basically bribery with extra steps.
Yep, it's very easy to spot the hypocrisy. It's easy to say this when you're a Bernie supporter and he's the favorite to the nomination. But if things start going south and Biden or, God forbid, Bloomberg emerges, then you can easily see what will happen. Folks will do whatever mental gymnastics it takes to break their vow to vote. Whether it's calling him a DINO or saying he bought the election, or pointing to specific policy they disagree with, or that the establishment robbed Bernie. Whatever, the reason they use is less important than the non voting. And it's ALWAYS a binary choice in American elections.
Personally, I can't imagine a scenario where Trump is the least objectionable candidate. I'll vote for any Democrat, even if I have to hold my nose. And I'm saying that as a person who doesn't have Bernie as a top choice but will gladly vote for him anyway.
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The better argument to vote for Bloomberg if it came to it is his stance on the environment. At the very least, he seems to genuinely be concerned with climate change.
If we don't fundamentally change our politics, government, and society our next demagouge won't be a cartoonish buffoon, but a cunning, charismatic operator.
Hell, I'd argue we've already got one and that's Bloomberg, minus the added charisma
I hope, whatever choice America makes, that they keep this in mind. It's not something that should be forgotten.
But I have no faith.
Even at the risk of Bloomberg becoming president? You really can't see why this is potentially catastrophic for the democrat party?
No. Absolutely not. Because the only thing right now that 100% matters is the Supreme Court. If Trump wins, he's getting 2 more picks almost guaranteed. That cannot happen
well elites in the party support him, he's gotten god knows how many endorsements from democrats, they seem to love taking his money, the DNC bent to allow him to be on the debate stage, he has enough money to outlast many of the candidates who will likely be quickly fading after SC and Super Tuesday when this thing will likely boil down to a three person race between Biden, Sanders, and Bloom, and his current polling in the upcoming states and nationally is threatening
until he's not a threat he needs to be taken seriously, far too many people on here seem to think he's just gonna go away. people thought he was done after the last debate when he literally had his heart pulled out on national television and he has since gained back the support that he lost after that debate.
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that's been my out for vote blue no matter who
bloom isn't blue by any stretch of the imagination
Also as minority lifelong NYer, I hate Bloomberg too. Yet I hate Trump more. I'm playing chess and not checkers here.
Who's more likely to appoint a leftist SC judge?
Who's more likely to appoint leftist federal judges?
Who actually believes in climate change?
The answer of those 3 questions are who I will vote for if it comes down to Bloomberg and Trump.
Whether we like it or not, in a FPTP election, the lesser of two evils is the choice to make if you're in a purple state. Now if you're in a red or blue state then by all means abstain.
Bloomberg has likely made a shit ton of money at the cost of the environment. Just like Tom Steyer, he's a hypocrite on the issue.
We'll see if he ever releases his tax returns.
You're not wrong. But it comes down to the environmental policies he will pass. I don't think he will save the environment, but I can believe he won't fuck it up as bad as Trump.
Well I get what you're saying that having a D next to his name as president could still be worth quite a bit in the short term. But I can't get over the long term ramifications Bloomberg being elected leader of the party that is supposed to care about race/gender/income inequality etc. I just think its better to vote D downballot and avoid Bloomberg getting a chance to lead and alter the course of the Democrats.
You're right its a moot point since he has no chance at the nomination. And if he is the nominee I think he has so much baggage he won't ever be able to generate enough turnout to beat Trump.
This isn't a matter of not being as bad as trump. If we don't have radical change in dealing with global warming we are screwed. Bloomberg won't bring that change because it will cost him and his friends billions in profit.
Green New Deal or bust. Any democrat who doesn't support something like that isn't serious about climate change.
Bloomberg would be bad, but even a minuscule difference between him and Trump would still improve (or at least not worsen) the lives of vulnerable people.
I hope it doesn't come down to that. However, when it involves matters of life and death...the lesser evil does have value, even if you hate yourself for picking it.
I hope it doesn't come down to that. However, when it involves matters of life and death...the lesser evil does have value, even if you hate yourself for picking it.
A Bloomberg win is terrible. A Trump second term is horrific.
I can't see how anyone can be confident(?) that Bloomberg would do better than Trump.
The lesser evil conversation has no place in this regarding the 2 of them.
Come on now..Bloomberg's history as Mayor, as well as his actions outside of office stacks higher than Trump ever could(before his term).
There is nothing "lesser" about him. And to think so makes me question what actions of his is excusable enough to give him that benefit.
The lesser evil conversation has no place in this regarding the 2 of them.
Come on now..Bloomberg's history as Mayor, as well as his actions outside of office stacks higher than Trump ever could(before his term).
There is nothing "lesser" about him. And to think so makes me question what actions of his is excusable enough to give him that benefit.
AOC is 100% correct. We're in easy mode now with a buffoon like Trump. Wait until someone actually competent gets in.
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