Skyrim: Imperial Legion or Stormcloak Rebellion?

[Deleted member 19218]

I am playing Skyrim on the Switch and had a quest open to join either faction. I realised that this plot line is now more relevant than ever before. People can say "Keep politics out of my game." as much as they want but it's there, in your face.

When Skyrim first came out, we didn't have Brexit nor a Trump presidency. Terms like nazis, nationalism and fake news were not common. In fact the world was perhaps more inclusive than ever before with President Obama and multiculturalism in Europe growing. Nationalism in recent years has been viewed as a rejection of inclusion and a push back by conservative people.

So here I am, there are 2 choices in Skyrim and this is what they represent and think about the other side.

1. Imperial Legion
   The Imperial Legion is a union between the various races of Tamriel who believe that they can bring relative peace and prosperity through union and by welcoming all. They view the Stormcloak rebellion as an uprising by extremists that murdered the King of Skyrim in order to create a country devoted to Nord nationalism that rejects the co-operation of other races.
   
   
2. Stormcloak rebellion
   The Stormcloak rebellion are a group of natives that believe giving Skyrim independence would allow the country to make better choices for itself and it's citizens. They view the Imperial Legion as oppressors who diluted their culture when the worship of a deity was outlawed and that the Imperial Legion serves not the people of Tamriel but is more concerned about relations with those outside of the Empire.

They both view themselves as the heroes, they both view the other as enemies, there is no compromise. You had to pick one, who did you choose?

 

[AuthenticM]

Stormcloak

Fuck the empire. Though fuck the Thalmor even more. The Thalmor are the nazis of Tamriel.

 

[BioDigital Jazzman]

They both suck. But I can't allow there to be another dragonbirn out there so the imperials

 

[Deleted member 1378]

The Imperial Legion acts under good faith and would mold a more prosperous Skyrim.

The Stormcloaks are a bunch of mudhut racists too blinded from their pride to see the values of others

 

[Rob]

I'm actually playing Skyrim SE on PC right now, and I refuse to join either one.

 

[Antrax]

Yeah, Legion. Ulfric is Nord Hitler, literally with elf slums.

 

[spam musubi]

The imperials are imperialist oppressors colonizing a land and the stormcloaks are basically white supremacist ultranationalists. That being said, the stormcloaks IMO have a claim to their autonomy in their indigenous land, so while they're both bad, I don't really support the occupation. It also feels more interesting to side with the stormcloaks narratively.

 

[Dragonmassag77]

The Imperials are the only way fuck the Stormcloak.

 

[DocSeuss]

Stormcloaks: victims of imperialism, who have become xenophobic as a completely understandable result of having been invaded by imperialists. The nords themselves aren't racist, though you do come across individual cases of it. It's like the Indians being angry at the British. That's not racism, that's being mad at your oppressors.

Imperials: the butt puppets of Elf Nazis.

This is not a difficult choice.

EDIT: AND ANOTHER THING: The Imperials were about to chop your head off at the start of the game, and they didn't even know who you were. You walk up to get your head chopped off and the guy goes "and who... are you?" THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY THEY'RE CUTTING YOUR HEAD OFF. THEY JUST FOUND YOU SOMEWHERE AND DECIDED TO KILL YOU FOR NO REASON.

 

[Deleted member 19066]

Legion. The Thalmore'll get what's coming to them.

Were the Redguards a part of the Empire in Skyrim? I know in earlier games they weren't. If so, I'd choose them, because Redguards are the coolest.

 

[PepperedHam]

I went Imperials. Buncha pricks those Stormcloaks.

 

[AuthenticM]

Stormcloaks: victims of imperialism, who have become xenophobic as a completely understandable result of having been invaded by imperialists.

Imperials: the butt puppets of Elf Nazis.

This is not a difficult choice.

Click to shrink...

fucking seriously

 

[Gryphon]

DEATH TO THE STORMCLOAKS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Buff DrinkLots]

Storm cloaks. Thalmor are literally evil.

 

[chrisypoo]

One's filled with racist assholes who still believe in enslaving non native species and treating them like second class citizens while the other one arrests and executes critics of the government and essentially presents itself as a dictatorship while infringing forced foreign standards upon the freedoms and cultures of a very traditional land and the people indigenous to it; take your pick. They're both right in some ways and wrong in others; just like real like, nothing's really black and white and the truth lies somewhere within the grey area as usual. That being said, the game doesn't allow you be neutral unless you just refrain from either quest line, so I don't think they're handled all that well.

 

[ToTheMoon]

I didn't pick either side. Even in 2012, they both sucked.

But if I were to play the game now and was forced to pick a side, I'd almost certainly choose the Legion. Not because I think they're great, but because I can't fathom supporting the Stormcloaks in a post-Trump/Brexit world.

This thread also reminded me that Skyrim didn't have perma-death of important NPCs. I murdered Ulfric Stormcloak in cold blood, but the game just told me that he was "unconscious". Annoying.

 

[SaberVS7]

Chalking the Stormcloaks down to being "Racists" is a gross oversimplifications of the complex politics involved. They're nationalists with discriminatory policies, yes, but they're not running death-camps, purges, enslavement, or any other "Hard" racist policies - Unlike many, MANY real racist regimes during wartime.

Meanwhile the Empire's condition is essentially Vichy France and enforcing laws of religious discrimination which are enforced with blacksite prisons, assassination, and public execution.

Here's a challenge to the anti-Stormcloak bruvs here: Show me one, ONE, Stormcloak-ran concentration-camp/blacksite, a scene of them executing someone for their political views/nonviolent crimes, and instances of them engaging in espionage against civilian targets.

Meanwhile I can show you the Empire allowing a Thalmor blacksite to the Northwest of Solitude, the Solitude gate-guard being beheaded for keeping a door unlocked, and a member of the Gray-Mane family being kidnapped by Imperial agents and shipped off to said blacksite to be tortured.

Checkmate, Imperials.

 

[AuthenticM]

I feel like the people who would choose the Imperials over the Nords are the ones who would berate the Palestinians for fighting back against the Zionists, but then when Israel invades the Palestinians and disenfranchises them, they would stay silent.

 

[Juraash]

The Storm Cloaks are pretty racist and Ulfric is an asshole. The Empire also puts someone like Maven in charge of a city. I just chose to ignore that questline since they both suck.

 

[Prophaniti]

Stormcloaks are better to play as but I love a good Roman Empire knock off so go Empire.

 

[Deleted member 2507]

On one hand, Skyrim as part of the Empire strengthens the Empire as a whole, and Tamriel arguably needs the Empire against the Thalmor. On the other hand, regions should have right to self-determination, plus Stormcloaks have valid issues; and subjucation-based empire is not that good idea anyway, were it an alliance with hegemonic empire...

Ultimately i'm inclined to pick the Empire despite it not being the Septim Empire. The major problem is the Stormcloaks lack of self-awareness and hypocrisy: racism toward other races and subjugation of the Reachmen. Split factions would give edge to Thalmor as well, despite this meaning that there's nominally two fronts: lack of unity will set up defeat in detail. First the Skyrim, then the Empire or vice versa.

 

[NSA]

Imperial. Always.

 

[Lysistrata]

Imperials because nice uniforms and armor.
Damned Stormcoaks killed my horse.
Pretty cut and dried really.

 

[Bakercat]

Empire all the way. The game gives some dialog to suggest that the imperials are very bitter about the Thalmor and do not like where the treaty is going. They hint that they are planning on starting up another war against the Thalmor when they can recuperate from the last war. If the Skyrim Nords weren't so bone headed they would see that joining the empire now and later siding against the Thalmor would be better for them in the long run. The Thalmor is the enemy, not the empire.

Spoiler

I spent way too long in the lore of elder scrolls. lol

 

[RagManX]

Played 700+ hours of Skyrim in multiple plays through and never made the choice. Don't care which side wins that particular fight.

 

[moustascheman]

They're both terrible but as someone who plays non-humans most of the time (orcs, khajit, dark elves etc) I'd much rather pick the imperials over the racist stormcloaks. Hell, I feel if Ulfric really wanted to challenge the thalmor a civil war would not be the way to do it, especially since the Thalmor were able to crush the empire before. A divided skyrim recovering from a civil war doesn't really have a chance. In fact I remember a dialogue line with the queen saying that the previous king, her husband Torygg, was sympathetic to Ulfric's cause but realized that they didn't stand a chance in open rebellion just yet. It also makes Ulfric murdering him a lot more idiotic since he's making it harder to achieve his ultimate goal of freeing tamriel from the influence of the thalmor.
Also the penitus oculatus set is way cooler looking than any of the shitty stormcloak armor sets. It sucks that the stormcloak armor is mainly just recolored guard armor instead of the cool legionnaire inspired armor that the imperials wear.

 

[Disclaimer]

Stormcloak

Fuck the empire. Though fuck the Thalmor even more. The Thalmor are the nazis of Tamriel.

Click to shrink...

Stormcloaks: victims of imperialism, who have become xenophobic as a completely understandable result of having been invaded by imperialists. The nords themselves aren't racist, though you do come across individual cases of it. It's like the Indians being angry at the British. That's not racism, that's being mad at your oppressors.

Imperials: the butt puppets of Elf Nazis.

This is not a difficult choice.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler: Ulfric Stormcloak background

Ulfric Stormcloak is a Thalmor plant, having been re-educated by them in captivity. The Stormcloak rebellion is entirely of Thalmor machination. Elenwen, the Thalmor's emissary in Skyrim, was in Helgen in the introduction to ensure their puppet, Ulfric, wasn't executed.

The banning of Talos worship isn't of Imperial design, it's an edict imposed by the Thalmor through the White-Gold Concordat, the treaty the Empire was forced to accept as a stalemate with the Aldmeri Dominion, so they could survive, re-organize, and continue resisting the Dominion's genocidal conquering.

The Empire had literally no choice in the face of its annihilation but to sign the Concordat and temporarily ban Talos worship until they're in a position to restart the war. (Notably, the Thalmor sought to ban Talos as a move of elven supremacy, because Talos was a human ascended to godhood.)

The Stormcloaks are basically comprised of Skyrim's ignorant and ultra nationalists, failing to think of the bigger picture in the face of the Thalmor's nazi blitzkrieg. They're a guerilla operation fostered by the Thalmor to weaken the province that's the backbone of the Imperial military.

The Empire is really the only rational choice, even if they're not great.

 

[Deleted member 11637]

At least the Imperials don't call me "scale-face" or whatever. Burn Windhelm to the ground!

Spoiler

j/k, I'll broker a peace treaty 'cuz I'm a honey-voiced swag daddy.

 

[Mechanized]

Stormcloaks. The Imperials literally try to chop your head off in the intro. Lol fuck them. And I really hate the faux Roman look in games.

 

[skeezx]

thalmor are the dickiest dicks who ever dicked. i kill them on the spot so it's a no brainer who i sided with. i don't care if the empire is doing some 12 dimensional chess siding with them, fuck em all

 

[Richietto]

Imperial Legion. The Stormcloaks are just a bunch of fucking idiots.

 

[Loxley]

As others have said, the Stormcloaks are racist zealots who are a-okay with slavery. The Legion ain't perfect to be sure, but they're way more preferable to the Stormcloaks.

 

[MidnightCowboy]

The captains of the various camps being unkillable was bullshit.

 

[Van Bur3n]

Stormcloaks if you only care about Skyrim, Imperials if you care about the Empire, and perhaps Tamriel as a whole.

The first time around I went with the Empire as I thought a unified Tamriel is the best way to create a fighting chance against the Aldmeri Dominion, despite the results of the Great War. But at the same time, the Redguards of Hammerfell were able to fend off the Dominion on their own after they left the surrendering Empire, which makes it questionable if a unified Empire is really necessary. Skyrim could be just as fortunate as the Hammerfell and fend off the Dominion on their own.

However, where does that leave the likes of the other provinces? What is left of the Empire without Skyrim (Cyrodiil and High Rock) probably couldn't fend off the Dominion on their own, especially since they're cut off from one another between Hammerfell and Skyrim. Morrowind is in shambles after the eruption of Red Mountain. Black Marsh is basically doing whatever they want at this point, and if anything, they're more interested in warring against their former slavers the Dunmer.

Again, it depends on what you (or your character) cares about. And this is ultimately from the perspective of what will prove more detrimental to the Aldmeri Dominion in the long run, which I would say is the long term goal that matters most in the end, not just an independent Skyrim. One might think its best to join the Stormcloaks to outright oppose the Dominion that have a high influence on the Empire. One might think its best to join the Empire to keep Tamriel unified for the next inevitable war against the Dominion.

Personally, I would go with the Empire, just like my first playthrough, for the reasons stated. When taking into consideration the long-term greater good, they're the most viable solution. The Stormcloaks are demanding an immediate solution that solely benefits Skyrim and ultimately won't answer the long-term issue, even if they are lucky enough to fight off the Dominion on their own like Hammerfell.

TLDR; the Empire addresses the bigger picture, the Stormcloaks do not.

 

[ned_ballad]

I've played Skyrim like 200 hours on 3 different saves and I've never even started this quest

Just seemed boring. And as a Kajiit player, neither side really seemed to like me.

 

[Ulcus]

I avoided choosing between the 2 factions while playing with my fiancée. You are suppose to save the world from destruction, and destroying cities didn't make sense in our game. I started another one where I'm doing the Brotherhood quests, and having bad karma in this one didn't matter so I will probably attack both factions.

 

[BLLYjoe25]

I can't remember who I went with in my first play through. Just started playing the SE on PS4. I was leaning towards SC because the IL were gonna chop my head off until the dragon saved me!

That said, I am only still at Riverwood and just done the Golden Claw quest so haven't really started or heard much. This playthrough I'm taking my time to hear everyone out and read all the lore.

Do you need to pick a side or could you stay neutral?

 

[Wanace]

I love the Roman aesthetic so I always try to role play as an Imperial supporter in all Elder Scrolls games.

 

[Samsquanchewans]

YOU IMPERIAL BASTARDS!

seriously though, if anything. The first minutes of Skyrim tells you there is to know about both sides.

You're just a lone wanderer, minding your business as you come across two factions fighting. Then out of nowhere Imperials already thinks that you're one of the rebels and is ready to kill you. THEY EVEN KILLED LOKIR, MAN!

#JUSTICEFORLOKIROFRORIKSTEAD

 

[AkiraAkira]

I picked Stormcloaks because I liked Ralof and thought their uniforms were nicer. I realize these are very poor reasons to join a civil war, but so it goes.

 

[Q_Pippin]

Imperials .... for BaLGRUUUF

The best little girl in france

 

[Lord Arcadio]

Do you need to pick a side or could you stay neutral?

Click to shrink...

You don't need to pick a side. The Skyrim Civil War is a separate story from the main story with the dragons. Alternatively, you can focus on the civil war and forget the main story. Or you can ignore both.

 

[SneerfulOwl]

The Imperials are playing the long game. They are biding their time to recuperate and strike back at Thalmor.

Stormcloaks on the other hand, are literally a ragtag of freedom fighters/xenophobe militants who is trying to fight both factions just because they are pissed.

 

[Deleted member 19218]

I can't remember who I went with in my first play through. Just started playing the SE on PS4. I was leaning towards SC because the IL were gonna chop my head off until the dragon saved me!

That said, I am only still at Riverwood and just done the Golden Claw quest so haven't really started or heard much. This playthrough I'm taking my time to hear everyone out and read all the lore.

Do you need to pick a side or could you stay neutral?

Click to shrink...

Well, you don't have to pick a side but if you never do then the situation never moves forward so to advance that story you will have to pick a side and make some enemies.

Since it is your first time, there is no rush to pick a side. Just do some quests, play normall. Whenever the option comes up to ask about the rebellion, do it and learn what various different NPCs think. There's no rush to make a decision, you can let your mind slowly decide.

 

[super-famicom]

I like this thread, very interesting. I played Skyrim a few years ago and sided with the Stormcloaks, since the Imperials tried to behead me in the intro. But now with Brexit and Trump, I think I'd want to stay out of this and not choose a side. Many people have given good reasons for and against each side. I'd rather just join the Redguards.

 

[HououinKyouma]

Stormcloaks because SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE FOOKIN NORDS.

Spoiler

They're both terrible

 

[AlexBasch]

I guess I was too impressed with the game not fucking up on me in the PS3 back in the day that I missed all the shit you guys are saying.

Like, I only remember shouting bears off mountains, carrying heavy as fuck dragon bones and creating more iron armor and weapons than fucking Tony Stark for leveling up and scamming people out of their money.

I want to replay it, eff my backlog. I'm blaming you all.

 

[skeezx]

I've played Skyrim like 200 hours on 3 different saves and I've never even started this quest

Just seemed boring. And as a Kajiit player, neither side really seemed to like me.

Click to shrink...

yeah it's basically a whole lot of nothing in the end.

i guess it had to be there to explain what a post-Uriel Septim Tamriel was like and set up the next game. but i can't imagine ever bothering with the questline again

 

[Deleted member 11934]

I feel like the people who would choose the Imperials over the Nords are the ones who would berate the Palestinians for fighting back against the Zionists, but then when Israel invades the Palestinians and disenfranchises them, they would stay silent.

Click to shrink...

Except the Israel's government right now is a bunch of nationalists in sheep's clothing, using excuses to justify infringing on human rights.

And I'd still side with the Imperials. A united world is better than a world at war.

 

[Cranster]

A united Empire is the only hope to defeat the Thalmor, let alone the Thalmor benefits from both the civil war and a devided Empire as they are more than likely secretly planning another war.