Skyrim: Imperial Legion or Stormcloak Rebellion?
- Thread starter Deleted member 19218
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Neither, they both suck. And I've never found the "which flavor of equally awful dipshits do you prefer?" question to ever be compelling.
The only game that did a good job of having different factions to choose from was Fallout New Vegas. Because in that game, if you wanted to be a good character, the choice was between going with the NCR, or the independent route. The NCR is a large and generally well-meaning force rebuilding society in the nuclear wasteland. But they are also flawed. They're stretched thin, they throw their weight around when they're not caught up in red tape, and run the risk of repeating a lot of the mistakes of pre-war America.
Whenever there's the choice of factions in a game, there is always the moment where the player thinks to themselves "I could do better than these morons." In New Vegas, the game lets the player put their money where their mouth is. Except here the question is if the player can do better than the designated "good" faction rather than the typical equally shitty dipshit factions, like the Imperials and Stormcloaks.
The only game that did a good job of having different factions to choose from was Fallout New Vegas. Because in that game, if you wanted to be a good character, the choice was between going with the NCR, or the independent route. The NCR is a large and generally well-meaning force rebuilding society in the nuclear wasteland. But they are also flawed. They're stretched thin, they throw their weight around when they're not caught up in red tape, and run the risk of repeating a lot of the mistakes of pre-war America.
Whenever there's the choice of factions in a game, there is always the moment where the player thinks to themselves "I could do better than these morons." In New Vegas, the game lets the player put their money where their mouth is. Except here the question is if the player can do better than the designated "good" faction rather than the typical equally shitty dipshit factions, like the Imperials and Stormcloaks.
Despite their absurd love of "pick your side!" quests, Bethesda is not exactly great at writing nuanced faction stories, and gives you basically no reasons to actually like either faction in Skyrim. Both of them suck pretty equally, but Ulfric in particular is an unfathomably unlikeable jerk and there's absolutely nothing redeemable about him.
Since the game won't let you play neutral or negotiate a peace that mutually benefits both groups, the better course of action is to simply not get involved in their petty conflict.
Since the game won't let you play neutral or negotiate a peace that mutually benefits both groups, the better course of action is to simply not get involved in their petty conflict.
Technically? There's no real political affiliation for Dragonborn, at least. If you want to take a side you can, but you don't have to. Which is honestly the only sane way to play.
It depends on my build on what race I'm playing as. That said if I was in Skyrim I would side with the Stormcloaks as the Imperials were trying to chop my head off at the start for no reason and the Thalmor are essentially Nazis.
The Stormcloaks are awful and I didn't realise that until I had joined them and it was too late. Made me want to erase my 100+ hour playthrough and start again.
Down with Ulfric, the killer of kings, and racist piece of shit. Why would I support someone who victimises other races for the crime of not being a Nord? Nothing more satisfying than having my Dunmer Dragonborn take his head off at the end of the Imperial questline.
Honestly one of the worst parts of Skyrim. The game tries so hard to hype up the conflict but never really delivers.
You end up with an epic war of like 10 dudes fighting.
You end up with an epic war of like 10 dudes fighting.
It is quite disappointing to see this level of Stockholm Syndrome here. The Legion was trying to kill you(/me) just for fun and are doing it all over. I can't side with someone who is trying to kill me. No matter how noble they think they are. They are no better then Thalmor and both get killed whenever possible.
Bethesda is really bad when it comes to forcing you to join shitty factions and giving you no way to back out. Fallout 4 makes you join the useless Railroad if you try to use the Minutemen as your main faction for the main storyline, and there's no way to stop that short of siding with one of the other equally awful factions.
OP
OP
Did mods ever fix that?
I had the same issue with the climatic battle against the Daedra in Oblivion. You basically fight along a total of like 6 soldiers after visiting towns for help lending you people.
Damn, I am being reminded how deep in the lore I got while playing Skyrim. Elder scrolls wiki pages for days lol
I went neutral through my whole playthrough, which has zero drawbacks except preventing you from doing those sidequests I guess. Not really interested in getting caught in a war, and neither side seemed able to claim a moral high ground.
I must say, I made an Imperial character for my playthrough (because they're the pseudo-Italians, and I like to make avatars that look like me), and many of the people in Ulfric's camp were incredibly racially abusive, lol. One particular NPC would harass me every time I entered a shop by saying, "I can't believe we let Provincials like you wander Skyrim!". The guards in Stormcloak cities would also give me extra warning for being an Imperial. Granted it's a video game, so it's not like it really bothered me; but to hell with joining up with those guys!
I must say, I made an Imperial character for my playthrough (because they're the pseudo-Italians, and I like to make avatars that look like me), and many of the people in Ulfric's camp were incredibly racially abusive, lol. One particular NPC would harass me every time I entered a shop by saying, "I can't believe we let Provincials like you wander Skyrim!". The guards in Stormcloak cities would also give me extra warning for being an Imperial. Granted it's a video game, so it's not like it really bothered me; but to hell with joining up with those guys!
The Stormcloaks were brash, impatient, generally dumb, and had a higher concentration of bad eggs. So not them.
FOR THE EMPIRE.
Thalmor are the real threat, some milk-drinking extremists aren't going to do much once they come knocking again.
I really dug the whole Cold War between the Empire and the Thalmor in Skyrim. Stormcloak Rebellion is just a footnote. I always enjoy breaking down the walls of Windhelm.
Always thought it was a mistake that Bethesda started off the game with the Imperials trying to lop off your head. Then they give evidence that Ulfric is basically a sleeper agent for the Thalmor and hide it in a chest somewhere. :lol
Also, the 'peace treaty' is not so much that as it is a temporary truce, really. If you want to kick off the civil war storyline again at any time, you're free to do so.
I also want to thank OP for giving me the final push to start replaying Skyrim. Like I don't have a shitload of new games to play. :p
Thalmor are the real threat, some milk-drinking extremists aren't going to do much once they come knocking again.
I really dug the whole Cold War between the Empire and the Thalmor in Skyrim. Stormcloak Rebellion is just a footnote. I always enjoy breaking down the walls of Windhelm.
Always thought it was a mistake that Bethesda started off the game with the Imperials trying to lop off your head. Then they give evidence that Ulfric is basically a sleeper agent for the Thalmor and hide it in a chest somewhere. :lol
Also, the 'peace treaty' is not so much that as it is a temporary truce, really. If you want to kick off the civil war storyline again at any time, you're free to do so.
I also want to thank OP for giving me the final push to start replaying Skyrim. Like I don't have a shitload of new games to play. :p
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I am not an uncivilised barbarian. So the Empire, of course. A united Empire has a chance of actually getting rid of the Thalmor.
That being said, I killed the emperor for the Dark Brotherhood. However, I felt bad about it afterwards.
Empire all the way. Also Solitude is the best city in the game so it has that going for it as well.
Even the current President of the United States isn't so evil that he'd chop your head off for illegally crossing the border.
All you're telling me is that one nation was forced to invade another sovereign nation. That sovereign nation did not take too kindly to being invaded, and wants out of this awful position.
Like I said, Imperials are butt puppets of the elf nazis, and Skyrim are victims of imperialists who don't deserve to have been invaded. They are doing the right thing. Fuck outta Skyrim, imperial scum. That the engagement was manufactured by the Thalmor doesn't make it somehow invalid. Most of the Stormcloaks I've met in my travels are nowhere near what I'd call ignorant or ultra-nationalist. They just want to be left alone after being invaded and murdered.
There's no excuse for murdering people when you don't even know who they are. That's imperials being garbage.
Who were the folks who brutalized and kidnapped random citizens? Imperials and turncoats.
"Skyrim is for the nords" isn't ultra-nationalism, it's patriotism. There's a fine line between the two, for sure, but I can't think of anything I've played in the game that is any more offensive than any nation that's been colonized fighting for its freedom.
Thalmor are ultra-nationalists, who want to impose their will on the others. They're evil. The Stormcloaks are not.
I always side-eye stormcloak supporters tbh. Pretty much everyone is kinda shit but the thalmor even views the stormcloak rebellion in their favor lmao. I'd side imperials probably, the stormcloak rebellion is in its core just Ulfric radicalizing the population with his fascist ideals (which we see with the elf slums and stuff). So eh, imperials, despite their imperialist thingy. At least they're in a realistic state to be on the same playground as thalmors.
Also not to sound super evil, but the thalmor basically want to eradicate the mortal plane of nirn to reach a higher state of existence. thats fucking dope
god a thalmor questline would have been interesting
Also not to sound super evil, but the thalmor basically want to eradicate the mortal plane of nirn to reach a higher state of existence. thats fucking dope
god a thalmor questline would have been interesting
Pretty much, I'm surprised most people here would side with the invaders.
Wut? Skyrim wasn't a sovereign nation. It was completely part of the Empire. Had been for a long time.
They aren't being invaded.
It's a Civil War. Can't be a Civil War if they're invading a sovereign nation.
If the Stormcloaks win, then the Thalmor win. They move into the nation following the Empires defeat and conquer with ease. If the Empire wins, then the Thalmor don't invade Skyrim and In a few years a new war between the Empire and Thalmor begins. Game tells you as much.
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though it's sad that bethesda arent good writers to actually incorporate all these things in the game well enough. The lore and background of it all is great, but in the game itself its still a pretty dull conflict to see develop.
They're not invaders. :lol Skyrim has always been part of the Empire, even before Cyrodiil was. Tiber Septim, the founder of this Empire, was a Nord. You can make the argument that they're governed by a different dynasty now, but even in the 200 years since Oblivion, Skyrim was one of the few nations who didn't secede. Nords have always believed in the Empire. Most of the Imperial soldiers in the game are Nords, as are some of its top commanders.
It's a civil war, not an invasion. Stormcloaks want religious freedom, which is understandable. They also want to kick every non-Nord out of Skyrim, and kill them if they don't cooperate.
The Empire is locked in a cold war with an enemy that nearly obliterated them the last time, and is now manipulating its diverse subjects into open rebellion. That's how the rebellion got started in the first place. Empire had the choice between going to war with the Dominion again and most likely getting destroyed, or placating their enemy by telling Ulfric to fuck off. All the while, the Thalmor had goaded Ulfric into doing what he did.
Hell, when you finish the Imperial questline, the mood is pretty grim. Tullius even says the real war is still to come, and now they're even weaker than they were before.
Some of this stuff should've been made more clear in the game. Most people who go Stormcloak still cling to that bogus "invasion"-rhetoric. It's incredibly similar to the way news works today. :lol
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Also i'd say that the Israel v Palestine metaphor is pretty miss. Sounds like you're trying to be an edgy revolutionary isolationist more than anything
Guess I should have focused on the dialogue more, I suppose starting with me and Ulfric sentenced to death helped sympathize with the character and made me think that imperials were the bad guys.
Imperials.
The thalmor are nazis, the stormcloaks are ultra nationalistic, the imperials are heavy handed and have some racist tendencies, too (like any society), but the stormcloaks have no path to defeating the thalmor, only lashing out at them in a nativist rage.
The thalmor are nazis, the stormcloaks are ultra nationalistic, the imperials are heavy handed and have some racist tendencies, too (like any society), but the stormcloaks have no path to defeating the thalmor, only lashing out at them in a nativist rage.
Also, the stormcloaks are puppets weakening the imperial legion for the Thalmor, who know that the best course of action for the emprie to oppose them is to unite, and the best way for the thalmor to destabilize the empire is through a civil war.
The stormcloak uprising is playing right into the thalmor's hands.
The stormcloak uprising is playing right into the thalmor's hands.
That's why I think the game opening the way it did, was a mistake. :p A lot of people followed their gut after that. I probably would have too, at first, if I hadn't played Oblivion to death and read the two in-between novels.
A game setting up a revolution against the Dominion would be interesting. Maybe they're waiting on tech to make it more believable?
Either that, or we're going to make another big 200 year timejump, so events of Skyrim will be long forgotten.