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Skyrim: Imperial Legion or Stormcloak Rebellion?
- Thread starter Deleted member 19218
- Start date
LMAO. Stormcloaks "Nazis" - Meanwhile the Thalmor do actual Nazi things and Vichy Cyrodiil plays along.
My sweet summer children.
Also I keep seeing people say "The Empire plans to regroup and fight the Thalmor again!" - If the player knows that, the Thalmor DAMN WELL KNOWS THAT TOO. And that's a plan that relies almost entirely on the element of surprise, which it flagrantly doesn't have in its favor. Skyrim and Hammerfell could beat the Thalmor without the Empire I say. The Empire on the other hand is saddled with incompetent generals and a weak kneed Emperor.
An independent Skyrim has far better chances cleansing the world of the High-Elf question than Vichy Cyrodiil.
My sweet summer children.
Also I keep seeing people say "The Empire plans to regroup and fight the Thalmor again!" - If the player knows that, the Thalmor DAMN WELL KNOWS THAT TOO. And that's a plan that relies almost entirely on the element of surprise, which it flagrantly doesn't have in its favor. Skyrim and Hammerfell could beat the Thalmor without the Empire I say. The Empire on the other hand is saddled with incompetent generals and a weak kneed Emperor.
An independent Skyrim has far better chances cleansing the world of the High-Elf question than Vichy Cyrodiil.
People are taking Skyrims shitty plot so seriously. You are unable to play as Stormcloaks because they're racist against cat people and elves. Jesus...
I don't think the empire's plan to regroup and fight the thalmor actually relies on a matter of surprise simply because men reproduce a lot quicker than elves do. You have to remember that while the Imperial army took huge losses in the great war, so did the Aldmeri Dominion. However unlike the empire, the AD simply can't reassemble an army in 30 years, it's just not possible for elves. That's where the stormcloaks and the civil war come in, ensuring that the empire can never really regain their former might and be forced to deal with infighting and rebellions instead of planning a second counterattack. The AD can handle a weakened and fractured empire, but a unified and recovered one would be way too much.
Enjoying this thread. Tried to play the game twice on PS3, first time my system was stolen and the save was lost and on my second playthrough the game became a buggy mess as I got about 100 hours in. Neither time did I start this quest or make a choice between the factions.
I'm getting quite far into the game on PS4 now and was thinking about entering into the civil war.
Will have to read a few more pages of the thread before making a choice.
I'm getting quite far into the game on PS4 now and was thinking about entering into the civil war.
Will have to read a few more pages of the thread before making a choice.
Yes, generally I don't side with racists, even fictional ones. Since, you know, it's a metaphor.
It's not contingent on surprise at all, nor could it be. The Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion are in the midst of a cold war, with both of them actively anticipating a Second Great War.
There's a reason both factions acquiesced to a stalemate; they were both grievously wounded. Both underestimated the other. The Empire lost its intelligence agency, the terms of the Concordat, and the Imperial City's wealth. The Dominion lost its entire committed invasion force in the Battle of the Red Ring.
If you read about the Great War, you'll find that none of those claims are true.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Great_War
(1) Hammerfell's forces were only able to beat back Lady Arannelya's Thalmor army because of General Decianus' strategically discharged Imperial forces.
(2) The Empire's known generals and Emperor acquitted themselves well, decisively stalemating a conflict that shouldn't have been winnable, and avoiding the dissolution of the Empire.
General Decianus rallied Hammerfell for a counter-offensive and deceived Arannelya into thinking his forces had stayed committed to Hammerfell by discharging his veterans while he reinforced Cyrodiil.
General Jonna led Skyrim's reinforcement of Cyrodiil, defeating Thalmor attacks from surrounding cities, and encircling Lord Naarifin's main army in the Imperial City.
Emperor Titus Mede II led the crucial strategic retreat from the Imperial City, allowing the Thalmor to sack it, but then surrounding and eradicating their entire army.
(3) You're telling me Ulfric's Stormcloaks could stand against the Aldmeri Dominion's full might? They were quickly captured by Tullius before the Dragonborn got involved, and if you side with them, they destabilize Skyrim further by deposing some Holds' competent leaders.
This makes the India/Britain comparison sound even more apt. It would be like the Indians rebelling against the British while the British are being attacked by the Germans.
You have the choice between a) the cause of self-determination with a dubious figurehead and heavy racist overtones and b) shackling the land to a dying and decrepit imperial power.
I don't think either is a good choice. I roleplayed it both ways with different characters.
I enjoyed my Nord fiction better. I imagined I was a figure that rose up for the people and who had a cause around them but ended up dead after the game by the hands of the Ulfric who could not stand me being an alternate Nord hero. Then my child would rise from nothing and avenge and get rid of the corrupt and vicious Ulfric.
I don't think either is a good choice. I roleplayed it both ways with different characters.
I enjoyed my Nord fiction better. I imagined I was a figure that rose up for the people and who had a cause around them but ended up dead after the game by the hands of the Ulfric who could not stand me being an alternate Nord hero. Then my child would rise from nothing and avenge and get rid of the corrupt and vicious Ulfric.
The Empire is not occupying Skyrim. Skyrim has been an enthusiastic part of the Empire for hundreds of years, and indeed, the Third Empire was founded by a Dragonborn Nord.
The majority of the Imperials present in Skyrim are, in fact, patriotic Nords such as Hadvar, who is from the same village as Ralof.
The Stormcloaks are basically an uprising of white nationalists, scorning the province's current ethnic diversity.
Is it understandable they're upset about the religious persecution by the Thalmor? Absolutely. But the banning of Talos worship was an edict from the Thalmor, and it is enforced by the Thalmor, not the Empire, and affects the equally religious Imperials of Cyrodiil as well -- until the war resumes as planned.
I saved the Civil War quest for last. I wanted to make sure I got enough information before I made my choice.
As an Argonian character, there was no reason for me to side with the Stormcloaks so Imperials it was. I saw no real reason for any non-Nord character to side with the Stormcloaks because they were so blatantly discriminatory. It's a real shame there were no dialogue options for a character to discuss this matter with Ulfric. "I'm the dragonborn. I'll only help you if you agree to accept other races into Skyrim."
In a big RPG like Skyrim, they really should make the big quests more open to different approaches.
I wish there had been a negotiate a true peace (not just a cease-fire) option and a become high king of Skyrim yourself option. Or just kill everyone involved in the Civil War anarchy option. The fact that some characters are "essential" sucks in a lot of ways.
As an Argonian character, there was no reason for me to side with the Stormcloaks so Imperials it was. I saw no real reason for any non-Nord character to side with the Stormcloaks because they were so blatantly discriminatory. It's a real shame there were no dialogue options for a character to discuss this matter with Ulfric. "I'm the dragonborn. I'll only help you if you agree to accept other races into Skyrim."
In a big RPG like Skyrim, they really should make the big quests more open to different approaches.
I wish there had been a negotiate a true peace (not just a cease-fire) option and a become high king of Skyrim yourself option. Or just kill everyone involved in the Civil War anarchy option. The fact that some characters are "essential" sucks in a lot of ways.
Shit, Elsif basically asks you to break the law in honoring her dead husband by taking a few articles of his to the statue of Talos. The Imperials are so lax on the worshiping of talos that the edict may as well not even matter, it's a huge point of the game. And the people who do care, the Thamor, are depicted as narcissistic assholes who are bordering on actually evil. The problem I have with the game in that regard is that it often accidently makes high elves out to be even more fascist than the nords, because it's possible where the only high elves you ever see in the game are Thamor. And yeah, fuck the Thamor, they suck.
Imperial all the way.
There are understandably few non-Thalmor high elves in Skyrim, but they do exist. One in particular, Runil of Falkreath, is a former Thalmor battlemage who works as a priest of Arkay in penitence for his warcrimes.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Runil's_Dark_Past
Off topic but Runil is one of my favourite characters in game, in part because he provides insight into what a religious mindset is often truly like. No zealotry, but finding ways to rationalise the world as according to his beliefs, with some self-acknowledged doubt as well.
This is a great thread. I haven't put that much thought into it. I chose the Stormcloaks because the Legion tried to kill me and I wanted to belong to a group that keeps me safe and provides me with some gear. Easy as that. Later I realized Ulfric is an asshole and never spoke a word again to a single stormcloak. Life is hard.
Depending on how far you are into the Civil War questline, you can defect. The Jagged Crown quest completion is the point of no return for your chosen side, but until then you can either (1) talk to a wandering Imperial soldier, and they may ask you to switch sides, or (2) bring the Jagged Crown to General Tullius (or Ulfric Stormcloak, if you've chosen the Imperials), and he'll accept you into their ranks.
I felt pretty unattached since I tended to play non-humans but then you get to the point where you find out more about what caused the empire's defeat after oblivion and I picked a side. Well as much as you can pick a side when you barely finish the story when you're busy fucking around for hundreds of hours. I feel like all the Stormcloak supporters either are RPing hardcore isolationist Nords, support the Thalmor, or never got the info dump on the Stormcloaks from the Thalmor embassy.
Both are bad.
IMperials are a puppet government that oppresses its people without fighting back
Stormcloaks are an angry oppressed people being played by the aldamari dominion, and are racist, and wont to kick out everyone else.
At least the stormcloaks are fighting the aldamari dominion.
IMperials need to get there shit together really fast.
In my mind, I wouldplay Ulfric and the imperials leaders against each other while swaying hte people.
I would get the champions to turn an army into werewolves in secret, and have it slowly spread through the aldamris provinces, in addition to working with the dawnstars in identifying vampires, and the vampires inthe dominion and cooordinating with the champions werewolves. all the while training more people in guerilla warfare and terror tactics.
then 5-10~years later on a blood moon, have my secret army turn and massacre the dominions higherups and supporters on the same day.
Have it be known as teh Blood Howl Revolt.
IMperials are a puppet government that oppresses its people without fighting back
Stormcloaks are an angry oppressed people being played by the aldamari dominion, and are racist, and wont to kick out everyone else.
At least the stormcloaks are fighting the aldamari dominion.
IMperials need to get there shit together really fast.
In my mind, I wouldplay Ulfric and the imperials leaders against each other while swaying hte people.
I would get the champions to turn an army into werewolves in secret, and have it slowly spread through the aldamris provinces, in addition to working with the dawnstars in identifying vampires, and the vampires inthe dominion and cooordinating with the champions werewolves. all the while training more people in guerilla warfare and terror tactics.
then 5-10~years later on a blood moon, have my secret army turn and massacre the dominions higherups and supporters on the same day.
Have it be known as teh Blood Howl Revolt.
Who cares, they're both armies of faceless cannon fodder in a world filled with faceless cannon fodder.
I'm actually surprised anyone would choose the racist as fuck stormcloaks. I'd sooner join New Vegas's legion, because even if it's pure evil misognist shittery at least Caesar has a logical plan and end game. Ulfric is just... Well he's pretty much like Trump with the Russians.
So, you think the entirety of the empire couldn't beat the thalmor after having time to recover from the last war, but the puppet Ulfric can? The stated plan for the Thalmor to disrupt the Imperials from reunifying WAS the stormcloak rebellion.
So, you think the entirety of the empire couldn't beat the thalmor after having time to recover from the last war, but the puppet Ulfric can? The stated plan for the Thalmor to disrupt the Imperials from reunifying WAS the stormcloak rebellion.