So if Biden steps down.....what do we do? Who takes his place?

Kill3r7 · Apr 24, 2020

Afrikan said:
And that would be easily be used against him by the Trump Campaign.

Trump will take credit for all the other states low death #s, in comparison to New York's #s. Which he will blame on Cuomo's slow response. Which there will be video footage to show. And yes there will be footage of Trump downplaying it as well... but that's what Trump and his base/Rs like to do....bring you down to their level for the fight. People have low expectations of Trump, higher expectations of others.

What slow response? NY shut down quicker than any other state from first positive case to full shutdown. Cuomo has plenty of warts but his handling of this situation has resonated with people. Plus east coast bias helps.

This is all a moot point as Biden is not stepping down.

Afrikan · Apr 24, 2020

On topic though, too early for this thread... the Democratic Establishment and media AND the other candidates have invested too much in Biden. They have no choice but to go all in.

His VP is the key. THAT is the person who they could push as the nominee, if Biden chooses to step down.

So Biden and his team need to choose a VP as soon as possible, if they have ANY inkling that a resignation is at all possible in the future. Last thing they want are old and new canidates fighting over video conference. It would be a shit show.

Kthulhu · Apr 24, 2020

AppleMIX said:
Because the delegates should support someone who represents the views of the voters (IE a moderate).

Which one then? Because as bad as Biden is he's better than all the other moderates.

If you're goal is to appeal to the core of the party then the people who couldn't even get to Super Tuesday aren't the solution.

Biden's perception of safeness isn't just because he's moderate it's because he's a more or less know factor. Bernie is also the candidate who most closely polled to Biden as being likely to beat Trump.

Spine Crawler · Apr 24, 2020

WarpSpeedMolasses · Apr 24, 2020

Thorn said:
The First Past The Post system ensures that whoever splits off will lose AND ensure whoever they split from will lose as well. Until that's changed, there's never going to be any break away.

I mean, what is the alternative? Stuck having to choose for the rest of our lives between a death-cult that assaults anything not rich and white, and a *comparatively* less severe option that obviously has no real interest in progressive change? Something's gotta give at some point. Personally, as a voter in the ballot box, Dems are on very thin ice for me and are only securing my vote so far because I know how much more harmful the alternative is for both myself and so many others. But still.

ArrogantBastard · Apr 24, 2020

Afrikan said:
On topic though, too early for this thread... the Democratic Establishment and media AND the other candidates have invested too much in Biden. They have no choice but to go all in.

His VP is the key. THAT is the person who they could push as the nominee, if Biden chooses to step down.

So Biden and his team need to choose a VP as soon as possible, if they have ANY inkling that a resignation is at all possible in the future. Last thing they want are old and new canidates fighting over video conference. It would be a shit show.

I don't see how that would help much. Everything that surrounds him will be tainted, including a VP pick that would rise to the nomination.

Spine Crawler said:
AOC

Not qualified.

TorianElecdra · Apr 24, 2020

Biden is the worst candidate the democrats have run since who knows when. The process of their primaries should be rethink once the inevitable happens.

Thorn · Apr 24, 2020

WarpSpeedMolasses said:
I mean, what is the alternative? Stuck having to choose for the rest of our lives between a death-cult that assaults anything not rich and white, and a *comparatively* less severe option that obviously has no real interest in progressive change? Something's gotta give at some point. Personally, as a voter in the ballot box, Dems are on very thin ice for me and are only securing my vote so far because I know how much more harmful the alternative is for both myself and so many others. But still.

Realistically? Become a reliable voting bloc by encouraging voting and changing the party within by winning local races. Bernie himself couldn't get people hyped to vote him in the primary. We have to realize us progressives are in a bubble, and work to changing that. Yelling "FUCK YOU DNC" is not going to help anyone.

ThisThingIsUseful · Apr 24, 2020

Cipherr said:
Disagree. The party. The voters rather, have made it pretty clear twice that they don't want Bernie. Both times choosing mediocre to boring and disliked candidates over him. But this is hardly worth arguing about honestly. Its a joke of a hypothetical. It just seems extremely easy to predict. The DNC is not going to overlook a party of Establishment Democrats to put up Bernie. That's beyond far fetched man. Nothing in the history of this country or party would lead me to believe they would do that. I would expect Warren before Bernie. At least shes a Democrat year round and not just during election periods when she's running for office.

No, they made it clear that they wanted someone more due to a host of reasons. People can vote against someone, they can vote for someone, and they can like multiple candidates, but they can only vote for one person.

We're talking about a "what if" on who should take his place. If the argument against him is, "Bernie lost," then Democrats can run nobody because everyone else got fewer votes, and voters would supposedly have made it even more clear that they didn't want the others like Buttigieg or O'Malley or Warren.

Kthulhu · Apr 24, 2020

Spine Crawler said:
AOC

She unfortunately can't be president due to being under 35. Maybe info a few years/decades. Plus as awesome as it'd be I'm worried she's not experienced enough having only served 1 term in the house.

GoldenEye 007 · Apr 24, 2020

WarpSpeedMolasses said:
Then they need to either reform their entire party or just have progressives form their own 3rd party without their baggage. If they're gonna keep hunkering down on establishment, wallstreet, status-quo faces, then they're basically the GOP-lite party.

Progressives barely show up to vote. I wouldn't bet on putting in the work to form a viable political party. Bernie himself admitted he was disappointed by turnout of his supposed base.

WarpSpeedMolasses · Apr 24, 2020

Thorn said:
Realistically? Become a reliable voting bloc by encouraging voting and changing the party within by winning local races. Bernie himself couldn't get people hyped to vote him in the primary. We have to realize us progressives are in a bubble, and work to changing that. Yelling "FUCK YOU DNC" is not going to help anyone.

I'm googling this and it sounds like it'd initially have to take off running within local, smaller elections and essentially cause ripples from within the party? Not sure where you live, but (long shot in the dark) do you know of any particular blocs in the LA area that aspouse with most progressive causes that we can connect with?

Nola · Apr 24, 2020

If there was ever a moment in the last 100 years that needed a left-wing populist to come forward with bold ideas, it is now, and the only candidate demonstrating that capacity is and has been Bernie/Warren.

Of course I suspect what will actually happen is Joe will either slog to the finish line and damage the party for years to come, or the establishment will use his VP to usurp the primary process and circumvent any input from voters. Opening up a whole other problem with the situation.

AppleMIX · Apr 24, 2020

Kthulhu said:
Which one then? Because as bad as Biden is he's better than all the other moderates.

If you're goal is to appeal to the core of the party then the people who couldn't even get to Super Tuesday aren't the solution.

Biden's perception of safeness isn't just because he's moderate it's because he's a more or less know factor. Bernie is also the candidate who most closely polled to Biden as being likely to beat Trump.

That will be up for the delegates to decide. Maybe Biden would prop up a candidate that support his values (VP pick). Also you're assuming that people voted for Biden because they wanted to beat Trump and not because of his policies. The truth is america is a lot more moderate that internet politics would like you to believe.

Biden, Bernie and Bloomberg polled around the same against trump. Pete, Amy and Warren polled worse but still was beating Trump.

Thorn · Apr 24, 2020

WarpSpeedMolasses said:
I'm googling this and it sounds like it'd initially have to take off running within local, smaller elections and essentially cause ripples from within the party? Not sure where you live, but (long shot in the dark) do you know of any particular blocs in the LA area that aspouse with most progressive causes that we can connect with?

I live in Michigan so I coudln't tell you. I imagine LA is already pretty progressive anyway.

AppleMIX said:
That will be up for the delegates to decide. Maybe Biden would prop up a candidate that support his values (VP pick). Also you're assuming that people voted for Biden because they wanted to beat Trump and not because of his policies. The truth is america is a lot more moderate that internet politics would like you to believe.

Biden, Bernie and Bloomberg polled around the same against trump. Pete, Amy and Warren polled worse but still was beating Trump.

Lets also not forget that Biden being a long time Democrat name is a huge boon to him, as much as the internet bubble would think its the opposite. Bernie's "Fuck the DNC" message was extremely stupid.

Nola · Apr 24, 2020

GoldenEye 007 said:
Progressives barely show up to vote. I wouldn't bet on putting in the work to form a viable political party. Bernie himself admitted he was disappointed by turnout of his supposed base.

While even taking into account my point it was not a great outing, but primary voting is really not where you are going to determine how strong a candidate is in terms of turning out non-regular voters. Primary voters tend to be the most engaged party members.

JCG · Apr 24, 2020

I don't think he will step down. But if he does, it won't be Sanders who gets the nomination.

Then who? I have no idea, other than whoever would have been his VP.

Spish! · Apr 24, 2020

mellow_jack411 said:
Actually he's the only one out of all of us that would be underprepared enough to have that happen. Unfortunately he went and had 3 kids "accidentally" at 19 and wasn't well-off in the first place.

This just sounds like you bagging on people who are poorer. Stop being a total dick.

Nola · Apr 24, 2020

AppleMIX said:
That will be up for the delegates to decide. Maybe Biden would prop up a candidate that support his values (VP pick). Also you're assuming that people voted for Biden because they wanted to beat Trump and not because of his policies. The truth is america is a lot more moderate that internet politics would like you to believe.

Biden, Bernie and Bloomberg polled around the same against trump. Pete, Amy and Warren polled worse but still was beating Trump.

That IS exactly what the polls and exit polls said though.

And what policies? No one was rallying around him for a weak public option and a more weak Medicare proposal than Hillary.

Sign My Guestbook! · Apr 24, 2020

Afrikan said:
On topic though, too early for this thread... the Democratic Establishment and media AND the other candidates have invested too much in Biden. They have no choice but to go all in.

His VP is the key. THAT is the person who they could push as the nominee, if Biden chooses to step down.

So Biden and his team need to choose a VP as soon as possible, if they have ANY inkling that a resignation is at all possible in the future. Last thing they want are old and new canidates fighting over video conference. It would be a shit show.

My thought exactly. Need to announce now, and needs to be someone can take most of the states Biden is poised to take today.

Woof.

Deleted member 6949 · Apr 24, 2020

Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton

mellow_jack411 · Apr 24, 2020

Spish! said:
This just sounds like you bagging on people who are poorer. Stop being a total dick.

We all started out the same. His judgement led him to his problems. You get what you give.

Thorn · Apr 24, 2020

Nola said:
That IS exactly what the polls and exit polls said though.

And what policies? No one was rallying around him for a weak public option and a more weak Medicare proposal than Hillary.

Biden placed himself as "Generic Democrat." Which I think is actually a good idea. Also he has several progressive policies that he and Sanders shared. There's a good table.

AppleMIX · Apr 24, 2020

Nola said:
That IS exactly what the polls and exit polls said though.

And what policies? No one was rallying around him for a weak public option and a more weak Medicare proposal than Hillary.

You're wrong. Public Options are much more popular than M4A. On top of that, M4A support drops when you get in to the actual details of the plan.

Source.

onadesertedisland · Apr 24, 2020

AppleMIX said:
You're wrong. Public Options are much more popular than M4A. On top of that, M4A support drops when you get in to the actual details of the plan.

Source.

72% of republican gamers are idiots.

WarpSpeedMolasses · Apr 24, 2020

Thorn said:
I live in Michigan so I coudln't tell you. I imagine LA is already pretty progressive anyway.

Thanks anyway, I'm gonna look stuff up. I'm embarrassed to say I wasn't familiar with the concept of organizations as voting-blocs.

JVID · Apr 24, 2020

It's not going to happen. if it did, it wouldn't be Bernie. let that dream go.

Kthulhu · Apr 24, 2020

AppleMIX said:
That will be up for the delegates to decide. Maybe Biden would prop up a candidate that support his values (VP pick). Also you're assuming that people voted for Biden because they wanted to beat Trump and not because of his policies. The truth is america is a lot more moderate that internet politics would like you to believe.

Biden, Bernie and Bloomberg polled around the same against trump. Pete, Amy and Warren polled worse but still was beating Trump.

Obviously it's up to the delegates but if you want to think about it based on democratic principals the you have to look at the numbers.

For a sizable chunk of Biden voters Sanders was their second choice. Bloomberg got destroyed in nearly every state he was on the ballot.

All data we currently have suggests that Sanders would have won the primary if not for Biden, and the only way to prove otherwise would be to redo the primary, which is highly unlikely to happen.

In an ideal world we'd have ranked choice voting and this whole thread would be pointless as we'd have an accurate read on who should be his replacement, but sadly we live in a world where a candidate accused of rape won't even acknowledge it let alone step down so it doesn't matter.

Dalek · Apr 24, 2020

Anyone here seriously thinking Bernie is somehow going to be the nomination is in La La Land. It's time to join the rest of us in reality and trying to put forward a Democrat who will beat Trump.

Brinbe · Apr 24, 2020

considering she was never afraid to go at donald trump, unlike a lot of her peers, it would be poetic in a way for it to be elizabeth warren that goes at trump's throat in november. i wish it were happening now. she would fucking destroy him.

fuck it, make her veep

Deleted member 4034 · Apr 24, 2020

mellow_jack411 said:
Nothing gets my Bernie-loving buddy to turn red every time I mention that stat when he starts crying about wanting all the free stuff Bernie was supposedly going to hand out. Apparently he doesn't like that the majority of the country told him "no."

A lot of people are going to vote against Joe just because they didn't get their way. Sure enough my buddy posted absolutely anything bad about Joe Biden from any rinkydink site he could find. In the comments he would always put a gif of Bernie laughing.

The majority of voters didn't even get to vote. I'm not saying he would've won, but this is as disingenuous as it is petty.

iareharSon · Apr 24, 2020

TorianElecdra said:
Biden is the worst candidate the democrats have run since who knows when. The process of their primaries should be rethink once the inevitable happens.

What about the process should they rethink? Making their Democratic elections undemocratic?

JVID · Apr 24, 2020

harSon said:
What about the process should they rethink? Making their Democratic elections undemocratic?

have it done by getting a Twitter hashtag trending apparently.

Nola · Apr 24, 2020

AppleMIX said:
You're wrong. Public Options are much more popular than M4A. On top of that, M4A support drops when you get in to the actual details of the plan.

Source.

No, I'm not.

The assertion was that we don't know why people chose Biden, that it could be because of his policies and not simply because they thought he was better to beat Trump. But the sense of him being best positioned to beat Trump is EXACTLY why voters chose him. It wasn't a preference for his policies or a referendum on M4A.

He is the electability candidate, and as the strength of these allegations grow, that becomes a really problematic mix.

spam musubi · Apr 24, 2020

harSon said:
What about the process should they rethink? Making their Democratic elections undemocratic?

Do you think politics start and end at the polling booth? Do you think Super PACs pouring money into campaigns, senior party members throwing their weight around, the media taking cues from a campaign as to what to press represent the will of the people?

Mahonay · Apr 24, 2020

It's highly unlikely he is stepping down

Zornack · Apr 24, 2020

spam musubi said:
Do you think politics start and end at the polling booth? Do you think Super PACs pouring money into campaigns, senior party members throwing their weight around, the media taking cues from a campaign as to what to press represent the will of the people?

But Bernie vying to win at a contested convention with 30% of the delegates, now that's democratic!

Nola · Apr 24, 2020

harSon said:
What about the process should they rethink? Making their Democratic elections undemocratic?

Let's not pretend that the process is all that democratic though.

A truly democratic nomination process would simply be a national winner-take-all primary vote. Which I'm not advocating, but what we have has democratic components, but in other ways it is really not all that democratic, even in its reformed state. As the process is effectively decided by a quarter of states through a litany of processes that aren't always that ideal and are weighted based on certain criteria.

Gyro Zeppeli · Apr 24, 2020

Rightfully, it is Bernie. He was second in the primary, so he must get it. If he does not get the nomination, then you can kiss the progressive vote goodbye to whoever is chosen. Enjoy Trump.

JVID · Apr 24, 2020

Andington said:
Rightfully, it is Bernie. He was second in the primary, so he must get it. If he does not get the nomination, then you can kiss the progressive vote goodbye to whoever is chosen. Enjoy Trump.

lmao bull. shit. "rightfully" my ass.

Keldroc · Apr 24, 2020

Andington said:
Rightfully, it is Bernie. He was second in the primary, so he must get it. If he does not get the nomination, then you can kiss the progressive vote goodbye to whoever is chosen. Enjoy Trump.

Progressives don't even show up to vote for Bernie, nobody was counting on that (relatively small) contingent of voters to save anyone. Biden is still comfortably ahead of Trump in polling.

"Rightfully," lol

Deleted member 4346 · Apr 24, 2020

harSon said:
What about the process should they rethink? Making their Democratic elections undemocratic?

The most representative states should go first, and ditch caucuses, for starters.

Enthuzed · Apr 24, 2020

Be wary of someone trying to sell you news or their books like Seth Abramson tries to do.

Wag · Apr 24, 2020

Let's get him elected first?

thewienke · Apr 24, 2020

Might go to somebody like Kamala Harris if Biden has a say in it and is able to direct his delegates accordingly.

Nola · Apr 24, 2020

JVIDICAN said:
lmao bull. shit. "rightfully" my ass.

Lets assume Biden is forced to stand down.

Lets also assume that we want to retain a maximally democratic Primary process where we recognize the danger of voting in a Covid environment and Republican states unwilling to cooperate?

What should that most fair selection process look like then?

Spish! · Apr 24, 2020

mellow_jack411 said:
We all started out the same. His judgement led him to his problems. You get what you give.

Except that we do not all start out the same and nevertheless poor people deserve healthcare too.

Mesoian · Apr 24, 2020

Bernie.

But he's not stepping down.

Real talk, the situation we're in is that both parties are represented by rapists and the choice we have to make is whether we want the one who denies it or the one who makes jokes about it.

JVID · Apr 24, 2020

Nola said:
Lets assume Biden is forced to stand down.

Lets also assume that we want to retain a maximally democratic Primary process where we recognize the danger of voting in a Covid environment and Republican states unwilling to cooperate?

What should that most fair selection process look like then?

The convention. Where Bernie will not have the majority of the delegates.

Deleted member 17388 · Apr 24, 2020

"Fine. I'll do it myself."

main-qimg-c5fe70562c5e0c9412c3e24386d6f27c

So if Biden steps down.....what do we do? Who takes his place?

Roll Tide, Y'all!

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