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Stranger of Paradise Apparently Uses Unoptimized High Polycount Models
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
That seems pretty... chaotic.
I imagine it would be even more of a problem on PS4. Or maybe that's just new gen models?
I imagine it would be even more of a problem on PS4. Or maybe that's just new gen models?
Perfect first post. Would be funny if it the same developers/artists behind both.
Team Ninja's games in general seem poorly optimized. Nioh 2 was kind of a mess on PS4 Pro (based on the demo). None of the modes seemed particularly great and the trade offs in resolution, performance, shadow quality, etc. felt way too severe for what you were getting in terms of the overall visuals. I wonder what engine they use.
I mean I could tell from the pre-rendered scenes (that use the game engine models) that they're actually very nice looking. At least IMO. So I'm not shocked about this though I'm too ignorant on this topic to know how badly they botched the models
I already posted about that here people seemed to think this was just a pc port problem again turns out it's the game itself that is the problem and its on every platform. As always it's just less noticeable on consoles because they can just crank resolution and details down until it runs somewhat acceptable while it becomes more apparent on pc for obvious reasons.
There is a modder on reddit trying to somewhat fix the game with special K by removing some of worst offenders (like hair...) and some shaders.
There is a modder on reddit trying to somewhat fix the game with special K by removing some of worst offenders (like hair...) and some shaders.
Having super high detailed models doesn't seem like a bad idea in principle, except when the object is rendered too small and too far away for most of that detail to matter anyway. Future game engines really need something like Nanite to reduce model quality ad-hoc based on how it's rendered in the current scene.
But long term, and with rendering engines that make sensible use of them, I think we need to move away from the idea that a given 3D object in a game can't have millions of triangles. Imagine VR games where you pick up objects and literally look at them from point blank. Having crazy high details is how you make such a game appear photo realistic. In such a situation a 3D object becomes like a database where the rendering engine decides how much info it really needs in the current situation, and you don't just have hard corded LOD levels.
But long term, and with rendering engines that make sensible use of them, I think we need to move away from the idea that a given 3D object in a game can't have millions of triangles. Imagine VR games where you pick up objects and literally look at them from point blank. Having crazy high details is how you make such a game appear photo realistic. In such a situation a 3D object becomes like a database where the rendering engine decides how much info it really needs in the current situation, and you don't just have hard corded LOD levels.
That's apparently a myth or at least people datamining the FFXIV 1.0 client have found no trace of it.
Besides this game was mostly developed by KT and not SE and people claim it was not the NIOH team but a new team at Team Ninja, maybe their trainees or something like that not the first time something like that happened.
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Where was the oversight on stuff like this? How were these problems not brought up by technical artists (or why were they not listened to)?
I don't think that was ever solely about polygon count but shader complexity. That was from a GDC talk, so one can just look up the video for the context (~10 mins in)
I look forward to when we'll be able to brute force past the performance issues 10 years from now lol
This sounds like a LoD issue. But yes, they can always replace the models with ones that are a fraction of the high poly ones and keep the same rigging
whats funny if that they actually took the effort to fix this, the game could likely run at a much higher resolution and still maintain a perfect framerate
but considering that even the first beta back in summer had the exact same issue, i guess the chances of it happening now are pretty slim
but considering that even the first beta back in summer had the exact same issue, i guess the chances of it happening now are pretty slim
Seems like it's been like this for Team Ninja for a long time now (someone mentioned in the comment that DOA2 also has insane polycounts for its time and Dissidia NT also has the issue where some character would tank the framerate) so probably the same technical artists that think this is fine for all their games.
This is probably the acceptable level of performance for them.
its diminishing returns.
you could halve the poly count and not notice any difference, ESPECIALLY not on random throwaway enemies. Even more so when we are talking about during gameplay. Cutscenes using higher poly models is fine.
I did a really quick lookup of names from youtubed credits on Mobygames just now and it's a pretty random smattering of people from KT. I think you could say the majority is probably folks who worked on Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 since a lot of them had that in common, but you have leads from Nioh, Dead or Alive (a lot of designers from this), Warriors, Dissidia NT, Attack on Titan 2, etc.
you heard the same complaints about team ninja years ago, like ninja gaiden 2 doesn't look much better than black because all they really did is crank the polygons way up on the models and it gives Team ninja games a plastic look to their characters lol.
I hope they patch this game and fix this stuff.
I hope they patch this game and fix this stuff.
We're sure these are models that the game is actually using during gameplay?
This just seems like such a rookie mistake that I have difficulties believing it slipped through.
How would you not notice and fix this? I imagine even I would notice this, and I'm no game doctor.
This just seems like such a rookie mistake that I have difficulties believing it slipped through.
How would you not notice and fix this? I imagine even I would notice this, and I'm no game doctor.
People are cutting out details with mods and getting better perf. Seems to be the case.
Yet in technical reality it is. Due to how rasterization hardware works small triangles take up disproportionately more rendering resources than is actually drawn (up to 4x for the worst case) and should be avoided like the plague. UE5 specifically has a way around that but it's kind of a super new development and I doubt it's popped up anywhere else, let alone in SoP.